View Full Version : OOTP Baseball 2006 Reports
Marc Duffy
05-24-2006, 04:34 AM
In our opinion, one of best features of OOTP Baseball 2006 will be it’s SION (Sports Interactive Online Network) web-reports and league history.
The game generates a whole website from your baseball universe, which spools thousands of HTML pages.
I refer to this as your own baseball universe encyclopedia as it's packed full of stats & info
We'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
(We're updating the reports regularly based on feedback and bug reports)
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/
Drake
05-24-2006, 08:08 AM
Wow.
miked
05-24-2006, 08:09 AM
Quite impressive.
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 08:49 AM
My quick take is that as compared to the previous html reports, this thing is *greatly* beefed up, especially to the point of including minor league news, stats, even box scores.
It also looks to integrate much of Catobase, but there are definitely things missing there. Reposted from an assessment I gave at FOBL:
I'm *not* seeing things like playoff series record (there is just an 'X' there if you made it), there are NO WIN SHARES, fielding stats are not broken down by position, there is no team schedule, there does not seem to be a manager section anywhere. I don't see rank in your league. I don't see similarity scores for players. From a historical standpoint, if this is all that is there, this falls well short of what we have now. FBR is definitely superior.
So the html seems like a middle ground. Much, much better than the previous game html. The minor league breakdowns are downright exciting. For history, not *quite* where the Cato output is though.
CubsFan915
05-24-2006, 08:51 AM
Dammit, now I'm *really* starting to get interested...
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 08:51 AM
Team schedules seem to be imbedded elsewhere in the site, not sure if they carry over from year to year though. There doesn't look to be a game-by-game breakdown like this though:
http://reference.thefobl.com/fbr/teams/las/2019sched.html
edit: Cubs broke my Dola.
Simms
05-24-2006, 09:20 AM
From a designer's perspective....
I'm seeing a lot of embedded styles in the source code, which is a sizeable concern.
<body bgcolor="#616161" style="background-image:url(../images/sin_bg.jpg);">
<td style="padding-top:6px;padding-left:12px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-right:12px;">
<span style="color:#FFFFFF;font-size:18px;font-weight:bold;">Fictional Baseball League 08-04-2016</span>
etc...
Please please PLEASE put as much of that in the CSS file as is humanly possible.
Ideally, everything would be css-controlled, but if you need set fixed widths for tables and whatnot, I can understand that. But if leagues don't have the ability to customize background colors, images, font sizes, etc., that would be a very very bad thing.
GoSeahawks
05-24-2006, 09:21 AM
OMFG
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 09:26 AM
From a designer's perspective....
I'm seeing a lot of embedded styles in the source code, which is a sizeable concern.
Please please PLEASE put as much of that in the CSS file as is humanly possible.
Ideally, everything would be css-controlled, but if you need set fixed widths for tables and whatnot, I can understand that. But if leagues don't have the ability to customize background colors, images, font sizes, etc., that would be a very very bad thing.
Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. But yes, I noticed things like the body background, title background etc. were inside tags. I agree, this is NOT a good thing. Very very bad thing.
Marc Duffy
05-24-2006, 09:28 AM
From a designer's perspective....
I'm seeing a lot of embedded styles in the source code, which is a sizeable concern.
<body bgcolor="#616161" style="background-image:url(../images/sin_bg.jpg);">
<td style="padding-top:6px;padding-left:12px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-right:12px;">
<span style="color:#FFFFFF;font-size:18px;font-weight:bold;">Fictional Baseball League 08-04-2016</span>
etc...
Please please PLEASE put as much of that in the CSS file as is humanly possible.
Ideally, everything would be css-controlled, but if you need set fixed widths for tables and whatnot, I can understand that. But if leagues don't have the ability to customize background colors, images, font sizes, etc., that would be a very very bad thing.
I think the issue here is that we've created a browser in the game where these reports are also viewable (and creatable on the fly). It's likely our browser doesnt support such code
PilotMan
05-24-2006, 09:30 AM
I like the player reports, but one thing that stands out is that I can't see how many all star games that a player has been to like I could before. As of now, I need to scan through all the player history whereas before I could just look at what team they played for.
I know that allstar games don't mean anything, but it would have been cool to talley those stats.
I would have like to have seen a competition like a HR Derby added.
It would have been nice to see a running total of how many injuries a player has had and how much total time he has missed. Simply for the abilty to evaluate a player for your team.
The formatting in the major transactions should allow me to quickly scan for important trades, as it is right now it doesn't work, I can't quickly find when trades take place.
Having important trades made into news items should be included.
In fact a major portion of the game should be run throught the news, like it is in FM. And it would need to be fully customizable.
That is enough for now.
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 09:31 AM
I think the issue here is that we've created a browser in the game where these reports are also viewable (and creatable on the fly). It's likely our browser doesnt support such code
Hmm. Well, that stinks. I know for FOBL I view the reports 99.9% on our web site, and 0.1% (if even that) in-game.
Simms
05-24-2006, 09:36 AM
I think the issue here is that we've created a browser in the game where these reports are also viewable (and creatable on the fly). It's likely our browser doesnt support such code
Well, there's certainly *some* CSS support built in, as there does exist a CSS file for the reports pages (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/styles.css). The examples I've listed are pretty basic examples -- level 1 CSS, so I can't see why an in-game browser would support what's already in the CSS file and *not* something like "background-image".
It's simply a matter of pulling the "style=" attributes out of the HTML tags themselves and assigning classes to them in the master CSS file.
Marc Duffy
05-24-2006, 09:39 AM
Hmm. Well, that stinks. I know for FOBL I view the reports 99.9% on our web site, and 0.1% (if even that) in-game.
I'm not familiar with that games mechanics, but the way it works in OOTPB is that it's all part of the game but they are viewable in an external browser for online / dynasty reports rather than being external reports that you could pull up in the game.
I think I've done a bad job of explaining that but you hopefully get what I mean?
Marc Duffy
05-24-2006, 09:40 AM
Well, there's certainly *some* CSS support built in, as there does exist a CSS file for the reports pages (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/styles.css). The examples I've listed are pretty basic examples -- level 1 CSS, so I can't see why an in-game browser would support what's already in the CSS file and *not* something like "background-image".
It's simply a matter of pulling the "style=" attributes out of the HTML tags themselves and assigning classes to them in the master CSS file.
Thanks, I'll get one of the guys to take a look
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 09:46 AM
I'm not familiar with that games mechanics, but the way it works in OOTPB is that it's all part of the game but they are viewable in an external browser for online / dynasty reports rather than being external reports that you could pull up in the game.
I think I've done a bad job of explaining that but you hopefully get what I mean?
Sorry - I meant the online league FOBL (http://www.thefobl.com). OOTP league going off of v5...for league updates, I'd say folks view the exported html more than they actually open up the game. Simms basically has a custom style-sheet that we use rather than the game generated one (http://www.thefobl.com/fobl/league.html).
DanGarion
05-24-2006, 10:07 AM
Things I'd like for the online version of the reports are individual pages for each season a player played like it in in Catobase. So when I look at the LA team in 2012 and I click on a player I get their 2012 page not their current page.
Also I'd like to see the running salary records for players like it was in Catobase. See what players have made the most in a season and the most in a career. Not to mention I'd like to see the Grey Ink / Black Ink.
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 10:12 AM
I'd forgotten about some of those dangarion. I'd also add the ratings progression for players. I think there are a lot of things missing from Catobase - enough for me to think it's worthwhile to at least attempt to do sql dumps from v7 to put into an old version of Catobase. From an everyday league html standpoint though, this blows away what OOTP had before. Just not quite as robust from a historical standpoint on some fronts as Cato.
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 10:15 AM
Dola - it might not be worthwhile to have everything as beefy as Cato either, considering how long I hear it takes the Cato output to generate. We run sims 3/4 times a week, and I can't imagine taking that much time to generate html that often.
DanGarion
05-24-2006, 10:17 AM
I'd forgotten about some of those dangarion. I'd also add the ratings progression for players. I think there are a lot of things missing from Catobase - enough for me to think it's worthwhile to at least attempt to do sql dumps from v7 to put into an old version of Catobase. From an everyday league html standpoint though, this blows away what OOTP had before. Just not quite as robust from a historical standpoint on some fronts as Cato.
Yeah exactly. I loved the progression of talent that cato lets you see. I could see where what we are seeing here is the "in season" report" but there is a secondary "end of season" report that is done that includes all the features we have all come to love in Catobase, because I can completely understand the need to limit the amount of HTML files being uploaded on the day to day updates.
DanGarion
05-24-2006, 10:18 AM
Dola - it might not be worthwhile to have everything as beefy as Cato either, considering how long I hear it takes the Cato output to generate. We run sims 3/4 times a week, and I can't imagine taking that much time to generate html that often.
Ding, exactly what I was thinking with the post I just made.
PineTar
05-24-2006, 10:23 AM
cuervo... your links work better w/out the ( )
www.thefobl.com
www.thefobl.com/fobl/league.html
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 10:36 AM
Thanks PT. Fixed.
Hammer755
05-24-2006, 10:56 AM
I'd forgotten about some of those dangarion. I'd also add the ratings progression for players. I think there are a lot of things missing from Catobase - enough for me to think it's worthwhile to at least attempt to do sql dumps from v7 to put into an old version of Catobase. From an everyday league html standpoint though, this blows away what OOTP had before. Just not quite as robust from a historical standpoint on some fronts as Cato.
cuervo,
If you ever develop a tool that can dump OOTP2006 data in OOTP6.5 format, I would encourage you to make it public if possible. One of the few complaints I have with the new version thus far is its inability to transfer historical information for online leagues. I would love to be able to continue my league's current Catobase into the future to avoid a disconnect. I'm certain many OOTPers feel the same way.
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 11:06 AM
If/when we come up with a solution at FOBL, I'll post something about it. In all likelihood though it would be a number of perl scripts, and not anything compiled or all that robust unfortunately. Plus, with us still being on v5, we'd be looking to put things in that format rather than v6.5. I haven't actually looked at the Cato db yet, so I don't know what the differences are. Buddy Grant (Killebrew) is the Cato expert at FOBL so I'm going to have to coordinate some things with him.
And I'm definitely in the "complain about history" corner, my complaining hasn't won me too many friends over at OOTP I reckon...
Hammer755
05-24-2006, 11:08 AM
If/when we come up with a solution at FOBL, I'll post something about it. In all likelihood though it would be a number of perl scripts, and not anything compiled or all that robust unfortunately. Plus, with us still being on v5, we'd be looking to put things in that format rather than v6.5. I haven't actually looked at the Cato db yet, so I don't know what the differences are. Buddy Grant (Killebrew) is the Cato expert at FOBL so I'm going to have to coordinate some things with him.
And I'm definitely in the "complain about history" corner, my complaining hasn't won me too many friends over at OOTP I reckon...
Thanks a ton! The current version of Cato can be run using either V5 or V6/6.5 output.
AgustusM
05-24-2006, 11:22 AM
Looks great - except for those damn logos.
For the life of me I can't figure out why so much time has been put into making the game look better - but everywhere you look we have 1980's level logos, which are such an eyesore.
yes - I know we can and will replace with out own - but this is your marketing, don't you think it makes sense to put on the best look possible. those who look past such things and are impressed by the depth or in most instances ALREADY customers – A cleaner look would probably entice more first time buyers.
MrBug708
05-24-2006, 11:46 AM
Not a big deal, but on the player report the draft list goes pick, round when I think round, pick would be a much better order
ex- http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5755.html
At first glance, it looks like he was the third overall pick, but he was the 33rd overall pick, third pick in the second round
Eaglesfan27
05-24-2006, 01:32 PM
Very impressive. This is quickly moving up from my wait and see list to buy ASAP list.
Marc Duffy
05-24-2006, 02:14 PM
Looks great - except for those damn logos.
For the life of me I can't figure out why so much time has been put into making the game look better - but everywhere you look we have 1980's level logos, which are such an eyesore.
yes - I know we can and will replace with out own - but this is your marketing, don't you think it makes sense to put on the best look possible. those who look past such things and are impressed by the depth or in most instances ALREADY customers – A cleaner look would probably entice more first time buyers.
you may have a point, the game creates these logos on the fly and so they have to have a fairly generic flavour.
Again, suggestions on logo designs for the computer generated fictional logos welcome/
ISiddiqui
05-24-2006, 02:18 PM
I love the stat page. Including VORP among other stats just makes me happy :D.
lighthousekeeper
05-24-2006, 06:04 PM
I'm hoping this was taken off of an old build of the application. If not, it looks like ootp still suffers from the same questionable ai that has plagued it for years. The introduction of more complex situations like Short Season leagues and Rookie Leagues may only make matter worse:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_424.html
Some things of note:
- This guy played in the 'Rookie League' from age 25 through age 33.
- He was released midway through his first year as a professional despite posting a .926 OPS in the Rookie League.
- 2008: A mixed year for Sheehan. He dominates the Short Season A league, winning the league's MVP award, only to get released the next month.
- Was released 11 times in 11 years
- 2010: Released despite hitting over .350 that season
- 2014: A particularly bad year for the Sheehan family:
04-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-01-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-04-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-18-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Fresno Earthquakes organization.
09-02-2014 Released by the Fresno organization.
09-15-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Kansas City Felines organization.
11-06-2014 Became a minor league free-agent.
The Plano GM re-signed him in 2014 just so he could watch him cry as he fired him 3 days later. But don't feel bad for Sheehan: he collected 4 year's worth of minor league salaries that year!
ahhh...classic ootp!
Johnny Slick
05-24-2006, 06:28 PM
As discussed on another board, the report here also demonstrates that relievers are still underperforming starters. IRL, the reverse is true, and has been true since well before everybody started using their bullpens like Tony LaRussa, so we can't blame this solely on the game's inability to use LOOGYs properly. It would be really, really nice to add some sort of positive adjustment to relievers' abilities for their first time through the lineup (to prevent powergaming with this). You could put it in the "tune" file (or whatever you're calling the companion file that'll allow us to edit error rates finally) so that people who insist that this isn't a problem can turn it off.
Schmidty
05-24-2006, 06:44 PM
Looks like it'll be fun for stat addicts.
sovereignstar
05-24-2006, 07:00 PM
I'm hoping this was taken off of an old build of the application. If not, it looks like ootp still suffers from the same questionable ai that has plagued it for years. The introduction of more complex situations like Short Season leagues and Rookie Leagues may only make matter worse:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_424.html
Some things of note:
- This guy played in the 'Rookie League' from age 25 through age 33.
- He was released midway through his first year as a professional despite posting a .926 OPS in the Rookie League.
- 2008: A mixed year for Sheehan. He dominates the Short Season A league, winning the league's MVP award, only to get released the next month.
- Was released 11 times in 11 years
- 2010: Released despite hitting over .350 that season
- 2014: A particularly bad year for the Sheehan family:
04-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-01-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-04-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-18-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Fresno Earthquakes organization.
09-02-2014 Released by the Fresno organization.
09-15-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Kansas City Felines organization.
11-06-2014 Became a minor league free-agent.
The Plano GM re-signed him in 2014 just so he could watch him cry as he fired him 3 days later. But don't feel bad for Sheehan: he collected 4 year's worth of minor league salaries that year!
ahhh...classic ootp!
oy
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 07:08 PM
Looks like it'll be fun for stat addicts.
The player pages certainly have enough of them. But, I think a lot of them run together unfortunately. I liked the old separators between groups like vs lh/rh/close and home/away/last week/month for instance. I also liked having minor league stats easily distinguishable from major league ones - if not in a separate section, at least colored differently (or, maybe the whole year is a color like in http://reference.thefobl.com/fbr/players/d/draytoryan248.html rather than just alternating colors for teach stop).
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 07:09 PM
Dola - I think putting the league in it's own table cell as the example above is the way to go too rather than having just a dash - it lines up much better and makes it more readable.
cuervo72
05-24-2006, 07:13 PM
Another observation:
On http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5755.html, the "2009 Total - FBLAAA" link has no page. Probably brought up elsewhere, but just in case.
jbmagic
05-24-2006, 07:55 PM
I'm hoping this was taken off of an old build of the application. If not, it looks like ootp still suffers from the same questionable ai that has plagued it for years. The introduction of more complex situations like Short Season leagues and Rookie Leagues may only make matter worse:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_424.html
Some things of note:
- This guy played in the 'Rookie League' from age 25 through age 33.
- He was released midway through his first year as a professional despite posting a .926 OPS in the Rookie League.
- 2008: A mixed year for Sheehan. He dominates the Short Season A league, winning the league's MVP award, only to get released the next month.
- Was released 11 times in 11 years
- 2010: Released despite hitting over .350 that season
- 2014: A particularly bad year for the Sheehan family:
04-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-01-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-04-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-18-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Fresno Earthquakes organization.
09-02-2014 Released by the Fresno organization.
09-15-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Kansas City Felines organization.
11-06-2014 Became a minor league free-agent.
The Plano GM re-signed him in 2014 just so he could watch him cry as he fired him 3 days later. But don't feel bad for Sheehan: he collected 4 year's worth of minor league salaries that year!
ahhh...classic ootp!
wow. This exact same thing happen on oopt 6.5 latest version too.
I wonder why yhis still happens even with a brand new engine.
I hope on final release the AI does a better job with release, waivers, rule 5, trades, etc.
MizzouRah
05-24-2006, 08:36 PM
I'll wait very patiently on impressions before even thinking about buying ootp this year.
The one big thing about ootp 6.5 is how many good players are picked up off waivers. If it's the same in 2006, I'll pass.
Galaril
05-24-2006, 09:00 PM
I'll wait very patiently on impressions before even thinking about buying ootp this year.
The one big thing about ootp 6.5 is how many good players are picked up off waivers. If it's the same in 2006, I'll pass.
Ditto.
Buccaneer
05-24-2006, 10:01 PM
wow. This exact same thing happen on oopt 6.5 latest version too.
Really? You didn't think when lighthousekeeper said "If not, it looks like ootp still suffers from the same questionable ai that has plagued it for years." that it included 6.x?
korme
05-25-2006, 12:59 AM
Dude OOTP 06 is like a week away. I'm stoked. I've never gotten as many seasons out of a game as I do the OOTP series. Can't wait!
Marc Duffy
05-25-2006, 01:14 AM
I'm hoping this was taken off of an old build of the application. If not, it looks like ootp still suffers from the same questionable ai that has plagued it for years. The introduction of more complex situations like Short Season leagues and Rookie Leagues may only make matter worse:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_424.html
Some things of note:
- This guy played in the 'Rookie League' from age 25 through age 33.
- He was released midway through his first year as a professional despite posting a .926 OPS in the Rookie League.
- 2008: A mixed year for Sheehan. He dominates the Short Season A league, winning the league's MVP award, only to get released the next month.
- Was released 11 times in 11 years
- 2010: Released despite hitting over .350 that season
- 2014: A particularly bad year for the Sheehan family:
04-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-01-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-01-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Plano Commodores organization.
07-04-2014 Released by the Plano organization.
07-18-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Fresno Earthquakes organization.
09-02-2014 Released by the Fresno organization.
09-15-2014 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Kansas City Felines organization.
11-06-2014 Became a minor league free-agent.
The Plano GM re-signed him in 2014 just so he could watch him cry as he fired him 3 days later. But don't feel bad for Sheehan: he collected 4 year's worth of minor league salaries that year!
ahhh...classic ootp!
Have logged this for you
korme
05-25-2006, 01:26 AM
I don't know if this suggestion is a little too late, but it'd be nice to have the Career Stats tab broken down into two seperate categories. Maybe instead of the yearly stats listed altogether, maybe a Career Stats page for the current league and then one for his former leagues? So it'd look like this if the guy is currently in Triple A, 2012
Current League Tab
2007 LUB - FBL AAA
2008 FRE - FBL AAA
2009 FRE - FBL AAA
2012 BIR - FBL AAA
Other Leagues Tab
2006 JER - FBLA
2010 CLE - FBL
2011 CLE - FBL
And then a totals where it runs em all together. I'm just thinking bc if I see the back of a player card for Hideo Nomo as a Dodger, I don't see his prior Nippon League stats at the top before his introduction to LA and the MLB.
Andreas Raht
05-25-2006, 04:25 AM
I'm not familiar with that games mechanics, but the way it works in OOTPB is that it's all part of the game but they are viewable in an external browser for online / dynasty reports rather than being external reports that you could pull up in the game.
All the reports shown on our server are just the reports that are being generated by the game and displayed with the games's integrated browser. They are generated "on the fly". When you click on a link, the game creates the page as an HTML file on the harddisk, and then it will be opened.
But there is also a dialog where you can create all the pages if you want that. Or just a selection of the pages. See http://www.ootpbaseball2006.com/news.php?news=view&id=87
You can then upload the pages, or zip them, or open them on your computer using another browser.
When you have an HTML page opened in OOTP, you can always click on the "Open in external browser" button to open the page in your browser for printing, saving or whatever. Or just to see that it's really looking the same :)
Well, we're using CSS very often. But not always, that's true. I'll try to replace some of the long and often used in-line style definitions with CSS classes. Please keep in mind that the game uses templates to create all pages. There is only a single HTML tag which is hard coded a few times inside the game, and that's the <br> tag. Every other HTML tag, style definition, color attribute and whatever is in templates! These templates can be edited, and even separately for each single league database if you want to :)
One more thing :) Our integrated browser even handles Javascript :D Try the pull down lists for the splits on this page please: http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/teams/team_1_batting_stats_0_1.html - this works absolutely the same way using the same HTML code inside the game <pride> :) Well to be honest - we didn't integrate Javascript completely ;)
Cheers,
Andreas
Marc Duffy
05-25-2006, 08:20 AM
Reports updated today with some new fixes
miked
05-25-2006, 08:41 AM
Have logged this for you
Just out of curiosity, but do you have external beta testers? This kind of stuff has been blatantly obvious since Markus put waivers in the game. If you relying on observations from messageboard people to "log" major issues 1 week before release, it doesn't bode well at all. I can only begin to imagine the debacle that will be online leagues with all these options.
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 08:54 AM
I'm going to assume not everything was uploaded this time. Because I can't see the player listings by letters.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_players_by_letter_A.html
Not Found
The requested document was not found on this server.
Web Server at ootpbaseball2006.com
Marc Duffy
05-25-2006, 08:56 AM
Yes, we have a beta team of around 30 people who all have different areas of expertise.
We're still going through the game bugs database, fixing, tweaking etc and AI issues are still being finetuned.
This was something that had already been raised but not fixed, I pushed up the priority and you'll be pleased to know it's now resolved.
Marc Duffy
05-25-2006, 08:57 AM
I'm going to assume not everything was uploaded this time. Because I can't see the player listings by letters.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_players_by_letter_A.html
Not Found
The requested document was not found on this server.
Web Server at ootpbaseball2006.com
Did you follow a link from another page? If so, which?
Marc Duffy
05-25-2006, 08:59 AM
dola
Should now be : http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_players_by_letter_a.html
Let me know if you followed a link that now requires updating
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 09:14 AM
dola
Should now be : http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_players_by_letter_a.html
Let me know if you followed a link that now requires updating
Yes I went from the front page you sent us and did these links in this order.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_index.html
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_all_players_index.html
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_players_by_letter_A.html
lighthousekeeper
05-25-2006, 10:39 AM
Yes, we have a beta team of around 30 people who all have different areas of expertise.
We're still going through the game bugs database, fixing, tweaking etc and AI issues are still being finetuned.
This was something that had already been raised but not fixed, I pushed up the priority and you'll be pleased to know it's now resolved.
(I think I need to preface this by saying I love ootp and will purchase on Day 1 since it is the best out there no matter what. And keep up the good work Marc/SI/Markus)
But, this whole exchange leaves me scratching my head:
1. I make a post showing evidence that the roster/waiver AI issues that have been widely reported hundreds of times since waivers were introduced into ootp 2-3 years ago are still there.
2. Response is "your issue has been logged", as if this is like a typo that was just found for the first time.
3. Later response within 24 hours is that 'this has been resolved'.
If I had known it was that easy to fix the ootp roster management problems, I would have posted in fofc 2 years ago. :)
dervack
05-25-2006, 10:43 AM
(I think I need to preface this by saying I love ootp and will purchase on Day 1 since it is the best out there no matter what. And keep up the good work Marc/SI/Markus)
But, this whole exchange leaves me scratching my head:
1. I make a post showing evidence that the roster/waiver AI issues that have been widely reported hundreds of times since waivers were introduced into ootp 2-3 years ago are still there.
2. Response is "your issue has been logged", as if this is like a typo that was just found for the first time.
3. Later response within 24 hours is that 'this has been resolved'.
If I had known it was that easy to fix the ootp roster management problems, I would have posted in fofc 2 years ago. :)
I know Marc says it's fixed. But I would still be a wee bit skeptical if you ask me.
Marc Duffy
05-25-2006, 11:55 AM
(I think I need to preface this by saying I love ootp and will purchase on Day 1 since it is the best out there no matter what. And keep up the good work Marc/SI/Markus)
But, this whole exchange leaves me scratching my head:
1. I make a post showing evidence that the roster/waiver AI issues that have been widely reported hundreds of times since waivers were introduced into ootp 2-3 years ago are still there.
2. Response is "your issue has been logged", as if this is like a typo that was just found for the first time.
3. Later response within 24 hours is that 'this has been resolved'.
If I had known it was that easy to fix the ootp roster management problems, I would have posted in fofc 2 years ago. :)
You'll have to pardon my ignorance on this topic as this is my first OOTP game. When I saw the post, I logged it in our system and it's been flagged as being fixed by Markus this morning (you can check out the fix tomorrow in the reports at least)
Bea-Arthurs Hip
05-25-2006, 02:05 PM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_320.html
Two time pitcher of the year and he only gets a $680,00 contract.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_2268.html
19 Game winner gets $530,000 contract.
Just checked a couple of players seeing how AI handled transactions.
Also, I would like to see the player’s team history shown correctly. By this I mean
Player X:
2006 – Det …
2007 – Det…
2008 – Det…
2009 – Det…
2009 - Col
2010 – Col
Instead of the above they show:
2006 – Det …
2007 – Det…
2008 – Det…
2009 – Col
2009 – Det
2010 – Col
Not a big deal, but being a Baseball Encyclopedia guy and growing up reading and memorizing the back of baseball cards, this makes it difficult to read.
miked
05-25-2006, 02:18 PM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_320.html
Two time pitcher of the year and he only gets a $680,00 contract.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_2268.html
19 Game winner gets $530,000 contract.
Just checked a couple of players seeing how AI handled transactions.
You would think his value would be increased by all the time he's played in the field as well. I think in 2010 he logged 10 appearances in the field other than pitching including both corners, SS, and some OF. Surprised he hasn't caught a few games too. I also went to the main page and clicked on the pitching ERA leader to see he has logged late inning (I assume) stints at LF, SS, 3B, 1B while he was dominating the league pitching. I can just the Sox telling Curt Schilling in the 8th inning to go play 3B :)
lighthousekeeper
05-25-2006, 02:22 PM
You would think his value would be increased by all the time he's played in the field as well. I think in 2010 he logged 10 appearances in the field other than pitching including both corners, SS, and some OF. Surprised he hasn't caught a few games too.
He has:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_320.html
sovereignstar
05-25-2006, 02:23 PM
You would think his value would be increased by all the time he's played in the field as well. I think in 2010 he logged 10 appearances in the field other than pitching including both corners, SS, and some OF. Surprised he hasn't caught a few games too.
oy
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 02:23 PM
I'm thinking we are seeing the affect of a young league without history and probably with financial issues.
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 02:25 PM
You would think his value would be increased by all the time he's played in the field as well. I think in 2010 he logged 10 appearances in the field other than pitching including both corners, SS, and some OF. Surprised he hasn't caught a few games too. I also went to the main page and clicked on the pitching ERA leader to see he has logged late inning (I assume) stints at LF, SS, 3B, 1B while he was dominating the league pitching. I can just the Sox telling Curt Schilling in the 8th inning to go play 3B :)
I would like to see this happen once every blue moon on blowouts though, because it has happened in the past, but this is probably a little more frequent then it should be.
Like Fernando Valenzuela
Position Total P* 453 200 586 30 31 .963 .954 1.74 0.62 424 2930.0
1B 1 2 0 0 0 1.000 .992 2.00 8.40
OF 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 1.90 1 0 1
sovereignstar
05-25-2006, 02:29 PM
I would like to see this happen once every blue moon on blowouts though, because it has happened in the past, but this is probably a little more frequent then it should be.
Like Fernando Valenzuela
Position Total P* 453 200 586 30 31 .963 .954 1.74 0.62 424 2930.0
1B 1 2 0 0 0 1.000 .992 2.00 8.40
OF 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 1.90 1 0 1
Nice, but hardly important in the grand scheme.
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 02:31 PM
Nice, but hardly important in the grand scheme.
I feel if this is a game that simulates REAL baseball then it is important. There should be times where in a blowout the manager has a position player pitch and a pitcher field/pitch run. It's part of the game and one of the things that makes baseball neat at times.
miked
05-25-2006, 02:32 PM
Well, it's ok to see it every now and again, but I've looked at several SPs and even some CLs and they all seem to be logging innings around the field (anywhere and everywhere) each season. Even if it's only a few innings, what team trudges their ace into the field to play 3B, or SS, or OF? I'm going to wait to see the Cy Young pitcher injured his knee diving for a ball in the outfield notice... :)
sovereignstar
05-25-2006, 02:34 PM
I feel if this is a game that simulates REAL baseball then it is important. There should be times where in a blowout the manager has a position player pitch and a pitcher field/pitch run. It's part of the game and one of the things that makes baseball neat at times.
All I'm saying is let's make sure that Items #1-999 work before adding in that little bit. In a perfect game your idea would be swell.
MizzouRah
05-25-2006, 02:34 PM
You'll have to pardon my ignorance on this topic as this is my first OOTP game. When I saw the post, I logged it in our system and it's been flagged as being fixed by Markus this morning (you can check out the fix tomorrow in the reports at least)
:confused:
I think there is a mis-communication somewhere. :) If it was that easy, tell Markus we would like to see it fixed in 6.5. ;)
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 02:35 PM
All I'm saying is let's make sure that Items #1-999 work before adding in that little bit. In a perfect game your idea would be swell.
Yeah but if it's already happening then it just needs to be toned down. :)
sovereignstar
05-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Yeah but if it's already happening then it just needs to be toned down. :)
Yeah, but is it happening for the right reasons? :)
DanGarion
05-25-2006, 02:41 PM
Yeah, but is it happening for the right reasons? :)
If I was playing the beta I would let you know!
Maple Leafs
05-25-2006, 04:43 PM
Still can't find any room in the budget for a professional writer for the news pages?
Maple Leafs
05-25-2006, 04:46 PM
Dola... what does it mean when a guy has no ratings shown in a category? Is that some sort of "fog of war" scouting effect?
Buccaneer
05-25-2006, 06:22 PM
:confused:
I think there is a mis-communication somewhere. :) If it was that easy, tell Markus we would like to see it fixed in 6.5. ;)
and 5.11 please. :)
I remember Chief Rum highlighting this issue when he did his wonderful dynasty (or dynasties). It's not quite so bad in my historical leagues because of the nature of the lahman database and a couple of houserules but the League Transaction page is fun to read, in a disbelieving kind of way.
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 04:45 AM
Reports updated with the latest fixes
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com
TroyF
05-26-2006, 07:07 AM
Reports updated with the latest fixes
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com
Marc,
This has been brought up in this thread already, but pitchers shouldn't be playing the field. It may happen two or three times a year. Take a look at this guy:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_7315.html
He leads the league in wins and he spends a couple of at bats in CF, an inning in LF and THREE innings at SS. That just doesn't happen. I thinking a manager wouldn't be able to get back to the dugout after being fired after a double switch which included Chris Carpenter heading out to SS.
This isn't just a few isolated instances. It happens with nearly every pitcher. I just took a quick, passing glance at some minor leaguers and didn't see any who had been released repeatedly. I'll let someone else research that part.
The pitchers playing the field needs to be fixed.
Pumpy Tudors
05-26-2006, 07:08 AM
Marc, not to pick on you here, but I'm getting a certain impression from the reports website and your posts. Did you interpret lighthousekeeper's post about the guy being waived four times in one season as a report problem? As if the reports are just showing something that they shouldn't be? All of the fixes that I see in the updated reports are about display issues and bad HTML links. While those things need to be fixed, I think the bigger concern is about the AI in deciding which players to sign and waive. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any mention of that in the fixes.
Am I misunderstanding something about this reports website? Does it cover actual game engine bug fixes, or is it all about HTML output?
TroyF
05-26-2006, 07:28 AM
Marc, not to pick on you here, but I'm getting a certain impression from the reports website and your posts. Did you interpret lighthousekeeper's post about the guy being waived four times in one season as a report problem? As if the reports are just showing something that they shouldn't be? All of the fixes that I see in the updated reports are about display issues and bad HTML links. While those things need to be fixed, I think the bigger concern is about the AI in deciding which players to sign and waive. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any mention of that in the fixes.
Am I misunderstanding something about this reports website? Does it cover actual game engine bug fixes, or is it all about HTML output?
From reading the OOTP boards, I believe Marcus is tweaking the game engine and the reports are being ran with different beta builds of the game. So I don't think they are just taking things out of the reports to pretend everything is ok.
I think the engine is being tweaked before they upload new reports.
Pumpy Tudors
05-26-2006, 07:34 AM
From reading the OOTP boards, I believe Marcus is tweaking the game engine and the reports are being ran with different beta builds of the game. So I don't think they are just taking things out of the reports to pretend everything is ok.
I think the engine is being tweaked before they upload new reports.
I'll take your word for it. I haven't been reading the OOTP boards, so I was missing that. I had just gotten the impression that the latest bug fixes were about the reports, not regarding issues from the reports. My bad.
TroyF
05-26-2006, 07:43 AM
I'll take your word for it. I haven't been reading the OOTP boards, so I was missing that. I had just gotten the impression that the latest bug fixes were about the reports, not regarding issues from the reports. My bad.
In the link you can see the build they built the reports off of.
Now, don't ask me what I think of seeing some of these types of bugs late in the process. We are now less than a week from lift off and I'm seeing things like Cy Young award winners playing some SS during the year.
That doesn't make me all that confident the game is going to be in good shape by release. Any change made to the AI in that regard could send God knows how many other things spinning out of control.
But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'll look at new reports as they happen and see. I will purchase early, play it for a bit and then determine if PureSim or OOTP will get the majority of my time. (I say majority because PureSim is good enough it will have a spot in my rotation no matter what)
Maple Leafs
05-26-2006, 08:28 AM
Minor issue:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_305.html
This guy seems to have kept his rookie eligibility for two years, including winning back-to-back FBL SL1 Newcomer of the Year Awards. Maybe just a quirk due to starting the new league with an initial draft?
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 08:44 AM
Marc, not to pick on you here, but I'm getting a certain impression from the reports website and your posts. Did you interpret lighthousekeeper's post about the guy being waived four times in one season as a report problem? As if the reports are just showing something that they shouldn't be? All of the fixes that I see in the updated reports are about display issues and bad HTML links. While those things need to be fixed, I think the bigger concern is about the AI in deciding which players to sign and waive. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any mention of that in the fixes.
Am I misunderstanding something about this reports website? Does it cover actual game engine bug fixes, or is it all about HTML output?
Well, it reports stuff from the game so there is mixture here of cosmetics and engine fixes combined. Not everything I've logged from posts here and on the OOTP forums is cosmetic.
Of course the AI is essential for a game like this so please keep letting me know your concerns!
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 08:45 AM
From reading the OOTP boards, I believe Marcus is tweaking the game engine and the reports are being ran with different beta builds of the game. So I don't think they are just taking things out of the reports to pretend everything is ok.
I think the engine is being tweaked before they upload new reports.
Yep, thats just about it, explained far better than myself. Thanks
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 08:48 AM
Marc,
This has been brought up in this thread already, but pitchers shouldn't be playing the field. It may happen two or three times a year. Take a look at this guy:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_7315.html
He leads the league in wins and he spends a couple of at bats in CF, an inning in LF and THREE innings at SS. That just doesn't happen. I thinking a manager wouldn't be able to get back to the dugout after being fired after a double switch which included Chris Carpenter heading out to SS.
This isn't just a few isolated instances. It happens with nearly every pitcher. I just took a quick, passing glance at some minor leaguers and didn't see any who had been released repeatedly. I'll let someone else research that part.
The pitchers playing the field needs to be fixed.
Markus is investigating the cause of this at the moment
lighthousekeeper
05-26-2006, 09:06 AM
Marc,
But pitchers shouldn't be playing the field. He leads the league in wins and he spends a couple of at bats in CF, an inning in LF and THREE innings at SS. That just doesn't happen. I thinking a manager wouldn't be able to get back to the dugout after being fired after a double switch which included Chris Carpenter heading out to SS.
We do this all the time in my over-28 league. :) Of course we've got a 12 man roster....
TroyF
05-26-2006, 09:26 AM
We do this all the time in my over-28 league. :) Of course we've got a 12 man roster....
lol.
OK, if the league roster has a max setting of 12, I have no problems with it. :)
Major league roster of 25? Big, big problem.
Cy Young award winners playing 3 innings of SS? Game killer.
Cards4ever
05-26-2006, 09:40 AM
Troy's issue with the pitcher reminds me of something that struck me odd in the PS Demo(I know, wrong thread), there was no injury issue and the Braves stuck Ken Griffey Sr(86 replay) behind the plate late in a game for about 3 innings.
TroyF
05-26-2006, 09:42 AM
Troy's issue with the pitcher reminds me of something that struck me odd in the PS Demo(I know, wrong thread), there was no injury issue and the Braves stuck Ken Griffey Sr(86 replay) behind the plate late in a game for about 3 innings.
I haven't noticed a lot of that. I wonder if it's how the Lahman database put him in. Strange.
Cards4ever
05-26-2006, 09:54 AM
I haven't noticed a lot of that. I wonder if it's how the Lahman database put him in. Strange.
I'm not sure, I didn't do a huge bunch of managing, so I'm not sure if it was just one freak occurence or not either. I do know I did a whole bunch of stealing when it happened!
Of course it's not as bad as the issue you have identified. You might see a pitcher go to the OF for a batter and then come back and pitch, but definitely not play SS for 3 innings.
sovereignstar
05-26-2006, 11:41 AM
Now, don't ask me what I think of seeing some of these types of bugs late in the process. We are now less than a week from lift off and I'm seeing things like Cy Young award winners playing some SS during the year.
If someone was to ask me, I'd say that there are going to be a helluva lot more beta testers on May 31st.
DanGarion
05-26-2006, 11:46 AM
If someone was to ask me, I'd say that there are going to be a helluva lot more beta testers on May 31st.
Welcome to the world of computer game production!
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 03:12 PM
I think, even with the best laid plans some issues creep through. The main thing is that we do try to offer a quality support service for all our games and OOTP will be no exception.
sovereignstar
05-26-2006, 03:17 PM
I think, even with the best laid plans some issues creep through.
True. I've got to admit though, it's hard not to start looking at this thing as OOTP6: SI Edition rather than OOTP 2006. It frightens me that there are issues with relievers in the 7th iteration of the game.
dervack
05-26-2006, 03:24 PM
True. I've got to admit though, it's hard not to start looking at this thing as OOTP6: SI Edition rather than OOTP 2006. It frightens me that there are issues with relievers in the 7th iteration of the game.
Agreed. Along with the fact that H2H was never delivered, though promised for ver. 6, OOTP has moved from automatic purchase, to try the demo and wait a while before purchase, meanwhile, Puresim has moved from nice, but not interested, to buying next week when I get paid, or maybe this weekend if my experiment works.
DanGarion
05-26-2006, 03:34 PM
Agreed. Along with the fact that H2H was never delivered, though promised for ver. 6, OOTP has moved from automatic purchase, to try the demo and wait a while before purchase, meanwhile, Puresim has moved from nice, but not interested, to buying next week when I get paid, or maybe this weekend if my experiment works.
I like Shaun a lot and I bought Puresim, but the game is just too slow for quicksim...
GoSeahawks
05-26-2006, 04:31 PM
I like Shaun a lot and I bought Puresim, but the game is just too slow for quicksim...
I can't imagine that OOTP will be any better while running a full minor league system.
DanGarion
05-26-2006, 04:33 PM
I can't imagine that OOTP will be any better while running a full minor league system.
According to the reports I've read it is much faster.
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?p=1402601&highlight=simulation+speed#post1402601
dervack
05-26-2006, 04:35 PM
I like Shaun a lot and I bought Puresim, but the game is just too slow for quicksim...
Yep. Which is great, because I'm not looking to quick sim anything. I like to play out all of my games, and quite frankly, I don't really care how long it takes to sim the rest of the games that week. That being said, by looking at the minimum specs needed for OOTP 2006, I can't imagine a quicksim is going to be an option for most either.
dervack
05-26-2006, 04:36 PM
According to the reports I've read it is much faster.
Minimum of 256 MB of Ram. If you only have 128, which most people don't, I understand, you'll be lucky to get a Full MLB with AAA, and not notice slowdown.
DanGarion
05-26-2006, 04:39 PM
Yep. Which is great, because I'm not looking to quick sim anything. I like to play out all of my games, and quite frankly, I don't really care how long it takes to sim the rest of the games that week. That being said, by looking at the minimum specs needed for OOTP 2006, I can't imagine a quicksim is going to be an option for most either.
I'm working on a fairly meaty system at work with 1 gig of ram an I barely got to the trading deadly after 4 hours in PS.
As for OOTP 2006, the reports I read at about 2-3 minutes to sim a season. Which for me, a person that enjoys just making a league and looking at stats is a large factor into my enjoyment of the game.
John Galt
05-26-2006, 04:45 PM
I can't imagine that OOTP will be any better while running a full minor league system.
If that's true, then I probably won't end up buying either game. I may even give the new Mogul a try (since I'm one of the few who enjoyed last year's version despite its limitations). The slow speed has always been what keeps me from getting into FM, so it may keep me out of OOTP as well (especially given that I've never really liked past editions of OOTP that much). I hope to be proven wrong because baseball is my favorite sport. But it seems like right now that is the major sport with the weakest sims available, IMO.
DanGarion
05-26-2006, 04:48 PM
If that's true, then I probably won't end up buying either game. I may even give the new Mogul a try (since I'm one of the few who enjoyed last year's version despite its limitations). The slow speed has always been what keeps me from getting into FM, so it may keep me out of OOTP as well (especially given that I've never really liked past editions of OOTP that much). I hope to be proven wrong because baseball is my favorite sport. But it seems like right now that is the major sport with the weakest sims available, IMO.
For speed out of PS and BM, BM is far and away faster. We will have to see where OOTP2006 ends up. BM takes about 5-10 minutes to sim a seaon.
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 05:19 PM
Agreed. Along with the fact that H2H was never delivered, though promised for ver. 6, OOTP has moved from automatic purchase, to try the demo and wait a while before purchase, meanwhile, Puresim has moved from nice, but not interested, to buying next week when I get paid, or maybe this weekend if my experiment works.
All I can offer on this is judge the game based on the demo.
I know about the H2H stuff but that surely can't be the reason you've changed your mind so drastically on with OOTP?
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 05:23 PM
True. I've got to admit though, it's hard not to start looking at this thing as OOTP6: SI Edition rather than OOTP 2006. It frightens me that there are issues with relievers in the 7th iteration of the game.
I'm not aware of this being a long standing issue (1st game with the guys) but OOTP in terms of code and framework it's all new. I appreciate that wont wash with you as justification, especially as you are seeing an issue carried over just thought i would say it.
Marc Duffy
05-26-2006, 05:26 PM
What this thread does highlight is that everyone has their own vision of the perfect Baseball sim, which is why variety is good for all of you.
cuervo72
05-26-2006, 07:09 PM
to buying next week when I get paid, or maybe this weekend if my experiment works
Alchemy?
dervack
05-26-2006, 07:10 PM
All I can offer on this is judge the game based on the demo.
I know about the H2H stuff but that surely can't be the reason you've changed your mind so drastically on with OOTP?
Actually, it's precisely the reason why I switched my stance on OOTP. We've exchanged PMs over on the big boards about it.
dervack
05-26-2006, 07:11 PM
Alchemy?
It didn't work. At least what I wanted to do. I'll try again later, but still will buy the game if I can't do what I want to do.
TroyF
05-26-2006, 10:34 PM
What this thread does highlight is that everyone has their own vision of the perfect Baseball sim, which is why variety is good for all of you.
It depends on what you are talking about Marc.
If we are talking about speed vs. managment vs. H2H, yeah, there are different tastes for everyone.
If we are talking about solid AI and statistical tracking, we all want that in every game we play.
I love the speed of Mogul, but the AI and financials just aren't up to par.
I love Pure Sim (and with fast sim on, I can sim a season in around 20-25 minutes on my machine), but would love to be able to simulate 100 seasons more quickly and would love a deeper statistical model. (thankfully, Shaun is adding that stuff quickly)
The key for me with any game, baseball or not, is to do the things you set out to do and do them well. If you are going to advertaise great AI, I don't want to see pitchers playing SS or guys getting signed to a 67 million dollar contract and released the next month. (I realize this is a beta and Markus is attempting to get all of these issues fixed)
And I think that's whats always bothered me about OOTP the most over the years. It attempts to do so much that certain things fall through the cracks. I'd just as soon see no waivers than to see them handled horribly. I'd be more than happy to have a slower sim speed if it means the resulting stats and AI moves look right. (as Pure Sim has done)
I'm giving OOTP the benefit of the doubt because of SI and because of SI only. I sure hope it does what it promises to do this year. It has all the potential in the world.
Marc Duffy
05-27-2006, 02:51 AM
Yep, in a way you are right TroyF. Whilst we dont say "great AI" we do offer "A realistic and accurate simulation engine" (you could argue this is a play on words so apologies!)
What someone else thinks is great wont necessarily be up to your standards (which is where I was coming from with my perfect baseball sim quote.)
If you look at Football Manager, there are many that love the game and think it is the best thing ever. There are also people that think the AI sucks and that it needs some major work
It's down to the individual and their perception of the game. Providing people base their opinions on playing rather than reading forums I am sure it'll be fine (and if there are issues we'll work darn hard to fix them!)
sovereignstar
05-27-2006, 02:30 PM
Fear not, the starters-relievers problem has been deemed worthy enough to be fixed in a patch. According to Markus, "That's the way OOTP has worked for ages..."
dervack
05-27-2006, 02:50 PM
Fear not, the starters-relievers problem has been deemed worthy enough to be fixed in a patch. According to Markus, "That's the way OOTP has worked for ages..."
Awesome. And I expect that to continue to be the way it works in OOTP for ages too. It's silly things like that that make me glad I didn't waste my money pre-ordering. That and the fact that he kept the arbitration method to what it was previously because he didn't want to make it too micro-managing.
jbmagic
05-27-2006, 03:23 PM
A lot of these AI concerns from the reports for ootp 2006 are the same thing we saw in previous version of ootp.
I am just kinda surprise with a new engine for ootp 2006 that we are still seeing the same kind of AI bugs and behavior based on the html reports.
dervack
05-27-2006, 03:28 PM
A lot of these AI concerns from the reports for ootp 2006 are the same thing we saw in previous version of ootp.
I am just kinda surprise with a new engine for ootp 2006 that we are still seeing the same kind of AI bugs and behavior based on the html reports.
I'm not. If they hadn't been fixed before, I would seriously hope that people didn't think they would all of a sudden be fixed now. MR getting SP type deals, then being released will prolly continue to happen for "ages."
TroyF
05-27-2006, 09:13 PM
quoted from the ootp board:
Quote:
Originally Posted by markprior22
I am very disappointed that the starter vs reliever issue falls under the "patch" category. This is an integral part of the game and it sounds like, on release, we are going to have pitchers that can only go 3 innings or so starting games.
Markus:
That's the way OOTP has worked for ages... however, the AI has been improved in the meantime.
I've reread this quote five times and it just baffles me. It's the way OOTP has worked for ages and it's being planned for a patch? Are you freakin kidding me?
If it's the way the game has worked for ages (and it is the way it has worked), why in the hell wasn't this dealt with before now? This isn't some minor issue that means nothing. We are talking about the game having some starting pitchers that never go beyond 3 innings a start and bullpen ERA's that don't correspond to any era in baseball history. This should have been one of the top five problems dealt with before they added any new single feature in this game.
Insanity.
Buccaneer
05-27-2006, 09:45 PM
That's funny because in the 100+ seasons I have played, I have never seen a starting pitcher that can only go 3 innings. Playing in the Golden Age era, nearly all starting pitchers average 7.2 innings or so. Even in those careers where I extend in the 80s and 90s with the Modern Era, I have never seen this there too. So what the hell is this issue you are seeing?
Qrusher14242
05-27-2006, 09:50 PM
I read that for some reason SP are being classified as MR's. So theres tons of MRs and you get pitchers only going 3 innings. A poster pointed out how many MR's were selected to the all-star team and it looks like a bad bug:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/leagues/league_100_news.html
"SP C. Torres (GRA)
SP H. McCarthy (CLE)
CL S. Sugiyama (CLE)
CL J. Hilburn (PHO)
MR M. Timblick (FOR)
MR A. Bernea (GRA)
MR F. Ysla (GRA)
SP A. Mahler (JAC)
MR R. Montalvo (CLE)
CL K. Wilsdon (NAS)
MR P. Markle (FOR)
MR D. Lansing (JAC)
RF B. Girouard (ALB)
3B C. Gomez (CLE)
2B E. Holmes (JAC)
C A. Ranagan (ALB)
1B A. Endora (JAC)
CF E. Hockenhall (CLE)
SS D. Wright (CLE)
LF H. Branum (GRA)
C A. Silverstro (MES)
DH A. Aubin (NAS)
RF B. Kemper (PHO)
2B T. Sanborn (GRA)
CF A. Mercier (MES)
LF F. Osborn (FOR)
SS F. Dumenigo (NAS)
1B G. Dwight (MES)
Sub League 2 All-Star Game Selections announced:
SP K. Kanada (ATL)
CL L. Durun (ATL)
CL R. Norniella (MOD)
MR B. Agarn (WIC)
MR C. Chabala (MIN)
MR A. Holmes (FOR)
MR R. Abeyta (ANA)
MR C. Morency (FOR)
MR B. Thompson (MIN)
MR B. Baker (MIN)
MR K. Li (MIN)
MR G. Cavilla (WIC)
1B D. Aragao (MIN)
3B A. Bargone (FOR)
LF M. Smith (AUG)
SS B. MacKie (MIN)
C C. Cook (MOD)
RF B. Llesemia (FOR)
2B S. Masterson (WIC)
CF G. Becera (ATL)
C J. Canham (ATL)
DH J. O'Ronan (MOD)
LF K. Conlon (MIN)
1B A. Lopezs (FOR)
LF M. Hindjos (FOR)
LF M. Fukuoka (MOD)
1B J. Tucker (ATL)
TroyF
05-27-2006, 09:58 PM
That's funny because in the 100+ seasons I have played, I have never seen a starting pitcher that can only go 3 innings. Playing in the Golden Age era, nearly all starting pitchers average 7.2 innings or so. Even in those careers where I extend in the 80s and 90s with the Modern Era, I have never seen this there too. So what the hell is this issue you are seeing?
In my experience the bullpen handling of the AI and the fact to many MR have always been created have been one of the consistent problems with the game.
Marc Duffy
05-28-2006, 01:36 AM
Thanks for the heads up guys on this. I'll look into it.
Young Drachma
05-28-2006, 02:39 AM
The game certainly does create way too many middle relievers. Even as late as OOTP 6.5 and one of the things about OOTP that's frustrated me a ton. I generally just tweak and alter them into starters or closers depending..but...yeah.
stevew
05-28-2006, 05:30 AM
so this comes out this week, right?
so this comes out this week, right?
Yes, on May 31st.
MizzouRah
05-28-2006, 08:52 AM
In my experience the bullpen handling of the AI and the fact to many MR have always been created have been one of the consistent problems with the game.
BIG Issue #2 behind the waivers issue. MR's are plentiful and many have endurance's of starting pitchers. Yep, glad I didn't pre-order either. Sounds like the same game with an SI skin overlayed.
TroyF
05-28-2006, 09:05 AM
BIG Issue #2 behind the waivers issue. MR's are plentiful and many have endurance's of starting pitchers. Yep, glad I didn't pre-order either. Sounds like the same game with an SI skin overlayed.
The SI name made me rethink and preorder. I'll now have to grit my teeth and hope.
The good thing is PureSim is solid. If OOTP does bomb, I have a baseball sim to go back to. Couldn't say that in some past years.
Buccaneer
05-28-2006, 10:19 AM
Using Lahman, the game does import too many good MR, I just thought that was a by-product of the database. But fortunately, MR do not get that many innings in the Golden Era so their effects are minimized in my leagues. Every once in a while though, I have to change a couple of MR to SP in the draft stage - but only the pitchers that are obvious starters. I thought it was a typo somewhere in lahman.
TroyF
05-28-2006, 10:25 AM
Using Lahman, the game does import too many good MR, I just thought that was a by-product of the database. But fortunately, MR do not get that many innings in the Golden Era so their effects are minimized in my leagues. Every once in a while though, I have to change a couple of MR to SP in the draft stage - but only the pitchers that are obvious starters. I thought it was a typo somewhere in lahman.
Nope, using fictional rosters, this has always been an issue.
I understand programming and I understand some fixes seem simple when they aren't. But this has always seemed so bizzare to me. Code it into the game that there are more SP created than middle relief. If it's a toss up between an MR and Starter, give the SP tag to a starter.
Then you don't have AI managers yanking 5th starters in the third or fourth inning and ruining the realism of the game.
The frustrating thing to me is the flippant "it's always been an issue, but I'll get right on it for the first patch" comment.
If you know it's always been an issue, why in the hell don't you fix it? Amazing.
Buccaneer
05-28-2006, 11:32 AM
Troy, I understand. I had never played a solo fictional league because historical leagues works well for me (as do v.511). I don't mess with stuff like waivers and just concentrate on being a fast-simmer GM (where the emphasis is on roster and financial management). I wouldn't want to play this game any other way and do feel for those that are game-by-game simmers or coaching a game - not only in how the AI manages the game itself but in having to look closer at the transactions.
TroyF
05-28-2006, 11:45 AM
Troy, I understand. I had never played a solo fictional league because historical leagues works well for me (as do v.511). I don't mess with stuff like waivers and just concentrate on being a fast-simmer GM (where the emphasis is on roster and financial management). I wouldn't want to play this game any other way and do feel for those that are game-by-game simmers or coaching a game - not only in how the AI manages the game itself but in having to look closer at the transactions.
I don't play game by game either. I'm a fast simmer (who will occasionally watch a game if I want to see a great starter or someone going for a record) I usually go one month at a time and tweak the roster as I see fit until Sep/Oct, when I go one week at a time and may insert some youngsters in the lineup for a week and give vets rest before the playoffs (or the free agent wire) :)
I like playing with fictional players.
The problem for me is looking at the stats during a season and seeing a bunch of guys with numbers like: 32 games, 22 starts, 74 innings pitched. It just drives me nuts. And I can't believe this wasn't one of the first things addressed with the move to a new engine.
I just have to stay calm here. All I have are reports and Markus said the AI was tweaked. Fine, I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt. But I'm getting the sinking feeling this thing isn't going to be even close to playable for a solo player on release.
I hope I'm wrong.
JonInMiddleGA
05-28-2006, 12:49 PM
Sounds like the same game with an SI skin overlayed.
You say that as though you're surprised. I'm honestly amazed that anyone expected anything other than that. The problem(s) with OOTP are the same as they've been for years, a lack of adequate understanding of things that baseball fans (and presumably baseball gamers) understand instinctively.
Buccaneer
05-28-2006, 12:53 PM
32 games, 22 starts, 74 innings pitched
That's amazing. I have never ever seen anything close to that in all my seasons. Wonder what's the difference?
MizzouRah
05-28-2006, 04:05 PM
You say that as though you're surprised. I'm honestly amazed that anyone expected anything other than that. The problem(s) with OOTP are the same as they've been for years, a lack of adequate understanding of things that baseball fans (and presumably baseball gamers) understand instinctively.
Acutally I am surprised. I thought the purpose of rewriting the game, plus skipping a year was solely to fix these issues? If they are still present, what's the point? To add insult to injury... they mention it's going to be looked at in a patch? Are you kidding me?? No thanks.
It will be fun to read the boards next week when it's released though.
TroyF
05-29-2006, 09:17 AM
They've uploaded some new reports.
I'm still seeing pitchers play the field, but I have to say the rest look improved.
I didn't go through every prospect, but doing a quick rundown through the league leaders and looking at their transactions, I didn't see anything strange with the waiver wire. All of the transactions made some sort of sense.
Saw a couple of trades of high salary vets for youngsters. Glancing through the minors I saw a couple of draft busts.
I still think 4th and 5th starters are pitching to few innings, but it looks as though most of em are at least over 5 now, which I could live with.
A few days left. . .
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 09:29 AM
If they are still present, what's the point?
To sell product silly.
And it'll sell, regardless of how many long standing flaws remain. All you have to do is look at this board to see that. As long as text sim consumers continue to act like suckers, this is what we're going to get.
astrosfan64
05-29-2006, 10:05 AM
Give the game a chance...
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 10:09 AM
Give the game a chance...
I believe that's at least part of the point -- how many chances does it get?
How many iterations have come & gone with the same issues?
TroyF
05-29-2006, 10:10 AM
To sell product silly.
And it'll sell, regardless of how many long standing flaws remain. All you have to do is look at this board to see that. As long as text sim consumers continue to act like suckers, this is what we're going to get.
I'll admit I'm a sucker sometimes. In this case, this is loyalty to a company.
I've never purchased an SI game that I didn't spend hours and hours on. Both the soccer and hockey games have been terrific. I'm taking a flyer on this one. It may bite me in the ass, but I'm someone who is loyal to companies who have consistently have hit the mark.
Despite my pessimism, I'm going to give this a fair chance. Now, if this game doesn't meet the mark? Then I'll have to reevaluate how I purchase hings from SI in the future.
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 10:15 AM
I'll admit I'm a sucker sometimes. In this case, this is loyalty to a company.
Just FTR, I wasn't referring to you specifically nor even specifically to OOTP. That was a general observation about games/gamers in general.
Basically as a group we're so desparate that we'll accept a lot of things that we shouldn't (if we ever want better product).
GoSeahawks
05-29-2006, 10:20 AM
They've uploaded some new reports.
Yesterday? Or are there new ones on a different page?
DanGarion
05-29-2006, 10:26 AM
That's amazing. I have never ever seen anything close to that in all my seasons. Wonder what's the difference?
Me either and I do the same thing TroyF does...
TroyF
05-29-2006, 10:40 AM
Just FTR, I wasn't referring to you specifically nor even specifically to OOTP. That was a general observation about games/gamers in general.
Basically as a group we're so desparate that we'll accept a lot of things that we shouldn't (if we ever want better product).
I agree with you. In this case, I had reservations when I did it. The loyalty factor was the only thing that pushed me to do it. We'll see.
I think OOTP suffers from something else as well. Not only do you have the gamers who are desperate for everything, but in this case you have a game with so much potential. It looks so darned good and it always just misses.
I'm hoping SI changes that. I still have major concerns, but the last set of reports has me slightly more encouraged.
TroyF
05-29-2006, 10:42 AM
Yesterday? Or are there new ones on a different page?
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
lighthousekeeper
05-29-2006, 10:57 AM
As long as text sim consumers continue to act like suckers, this is what we're going to get.
You may seem like we're buying a lemon, but another way to look at it is that we're buying inarguably one of the two best baseball sims in existence.
...but regardless...aren't these arguments so old... i feel like we're playing out some 'pre text sim game release ritual' with the same tired old attack/defend posts.
Marc Vaughan
05-29-2006, 11:09 AM
To sell product silly.
And it'll sell, regardless of how many long standing flaws remain. All you have to do is look at this board to see that. As long as text sim consumers continue to act like suckers, this is what we're going to get.
To clarify my position - yes I want SI to sell games (shock horror, company wants to make profit and stay in business ;) ) .... but the main reason I'm working in games and specifically text sims is because I love playing them myself.
As such our expansion into American sports is partially for business reasons but mainly because myself and the other chaps making these games want them to exist and eventually become as indepth and fun as Football Manager to play.
Simply put, currently speaking no one is getting rich from our American sports products however we have some very talented people working upon them and we obviously hope that in the long term they'll 'break' though.
Are they perfect - no unfortunately not, I'd be happy to apologise for that if anyone wants me to ... we will always strive to make them as realistic and fun as possible, but we are only human at the end of the day and unfortunately we are constricted by our own inadequacies and the limitations of the hardware people run the games on.
As always we will support our products to the best of our abilities and we are confident that vast majority of people playing them will enjoy them. Obviously the more feedback we recieve from people the easier it will be to evolve and improve each series going forward.
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 11:56 AM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
Boy, Fremont must be a real baseball hotbed, since it's able to support both a AAA & a AA team at the same time.
And it looks like Pittsburgh finally reached it's level ... AA. ;)
(Although I'd bet St. Louis isn't happy being relegated to Class A)
Yes, I know/believe these are assigned randomly, but it's still funny to see some of the things that happens. Seems to me that it'd make sense to code something that avoid duplicating cities quite so obviously. Or is there a real-life city that is host to both a AAA & a AA that I'm not thinking of at the moment?
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 12:11 PM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
Be sure not to miss the organizational maneuvers of the Tulsa Professionals.
That's some serious traveling for some of those guys, but I guess they can handle it, considering those 30+ year old guys in rookie league have probably seen just about everything imaginable.
DanGarion
05-29-2006, 12:17 PM
Be sure not to miss the organizational maneuvers of the Tulsa Professionals.
That's some serious traveling for some of those guys, but I guess they can handle it, considering those 30+ year old guys in rookie league have probably seen just about everything imaginable.
I'd be more worried there are 70+ players on the Bakersfield Medusa's (R) team then anything else...
:eek:
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 12:30 PM
... and eventually become as indepth and fun as Football Manager to play.
And that's exactly what a lot of us would like to see ... but have just about given up on living long enough to get.
I grew up with a glove on one hand & a ball in the other.
(crap, that makes me sound like Michael Jackson).
When I wasn't outside playing baseball, I was inside immersed in a world that Topps made possible & I made "real", well real to me anyway. There wasn't a dramatic baseball moment I couldn't experience thanks to some imagination and a good 2d6 roll.
Now, time & space are both a lot shorter for me than they were back then. And I don't get up from the floor nearly so easily as I used to (I can still get down there fine, getting up is a lot more challenging), so I'd love to be able to experience baseball at my p.c. instead (and do it without taking out another mortgage, ala Diamond Mind or some of the other products already in the marketplace).
BUT a crop of 32 year olds playing in the rookie league ain't gonna cut it. I know better. Baseball fans know better. Hell Marc, my 8 year old knows better.
... unfortunately we are constricted by our own inadequacies
But do they have to be? Or, more accurately, do those inadequacies have to persist instead of being resolved?
From less than 10 minutes spent looking over just the information available in the HTML reports, it's clear that the same problem OOTP has always had remains to this day -- a lack of adequate understanding of "how baseball works".
I believe there's a lot of reasons CM/FM became the seminal sports text sim.
Among those reasons, I believe, is that the team behind it understood football. If you and/or some of the SI team don't recognize something of yourselves in my description of my childhood relationship with baseball then I'm amazed. I'd bet some of you lived it, drank it, ate it, breathed it and along the way you learned & forgot more things that you take for granted than most Americans will know about soccer in a lifetime. It's part of your culture, it's part of your daily life, it's part of you.
If you want to make OOTP, or any other baseball game, the diamond equivalent of CM/FM, you're going to need enough people involved in the project on a daily basis that have the same relationship. That understand when something is wrong, that knows when something feels right, that knows & understands baseball better than they know their multiplication tables. Otherwise, this merry-go-round is going to just going to keep on spinning, with nobody on either side of the equation truly getting what they want.
rexallllsc
05-29-2006, 12:35 PM
SI rules...OOTP has some work to do (I couldn't get into OOTP 6 for the life of me...not even sure if I played 5 that much), and I hope Markus can get things straight for the SI version of this game.
This looks really good:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
Is that something generated by the game?
rexallllsc
05-29-2006, 12:40 PM
And that's exactly what a lot of us would like to see ... but have just about given up on living long enough to get.
I grew up with a glove on one hand & a ball in the other.
(crap, that makes me sound like Michael Jackson).
When I wasn't outside playing baseball, I was inside immersed in a world that Topps made possible & I made "real", well real to me anyway. There wasn't a dramatic baseball moment I couldn't experience thanks to some imagination and a good 2d6 roll.
Now, time & space are both a lot shorter for me than they were back then. And I don't get up from the floor nearly so easily as I used to (I can still get down there fine, getting up is a lot more challenging), so I'd love to be able to experience baseball at my p.c. instead (and do it without taking out another mortgage, ala Diamond Mind or some of the other products already in the marketplace).
BUT a crop of 32 year olds playing in the rookie league ain't gonna cut it. I know better. Baseball fans know better. Hell Marc, my 8 year old knows better.
But do they have to be? Or, more accurately, do those inadequacies have to persist instead of being resolved?
From less than 10 minutes spent looking over just the information available in the HTML reports, it's clear that the same problem OOTP has always had remains to this day -- a lack of adequate understanding of "how baseball works".
I believe there's a lot of reasons CM/FM became the seminal sports text sim.
Among those reasons, I believe, is that the team behind it understood football. If you and/or some of the SI team don't recognize something of yourselves in my description of my childhood relationship with baseball then I'm amazed. I'd bet some of you lived it, drank it, ate it, breathed it and along the way you learned & forgot more things that you take for granted than most Americans will know about soccer in a lifetime. It's part of your culture, it's part of your daily life, it's part of you.
If you want to make OOTP, or any other baseball game, the diamond equivalent of CM/FM, you're going to need enough people involved in the project on a daily basis that have the same relationship. That understand when something is wrong, that knows when something feels right, that knows & understands baseball better than they know their multiplication tables. Otherwise, this merry-go-round is going to just going to keep on spinning, with nobody on either side of the equation truly getting what they want.
Good post.
Johnny Slick
05-29-2006, 12:40 PM
...says the guy posting on a Front Office Football message board.
Obviously OOTP is going to have its flaws. Puresim does as well (for instance, if you start a sim in 1876 you will have to use a closer who will save 50 games for you just the same as if you started play in 2006). I think that you're not looking for a "good" game, you're looking for a "perfect" game. And well, I guess you're going to have to keep looking. If you want hyper-realistic baseball, buy Diamond Mind or Strat-o-Matic. Puresim's come a long way in the past couple years, but it still hiccups a lot. Baseball Mogul is just plain trash. That leaves OOTP. Maybe it's the best only by default, but it's still the best IMO and the competition in the field right now will only help.
Johnny Slick
05-29-2006, 12:44 PM
SI rules...OOTP has some work to do (I couldn't get into OOTP 6 for the life of me...not even sure if I played 5 that much), and I hope Markus can get things straight for the SI version of this game.
This looks really good:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
Is that something generated by the game?Yep. There was a 3rd party utility called CatoBase that a lot of people used (and frankly that Markus used as a bit of a crutch) that created reports like these. Unfortunately, Jeff Cato up and disappeared on dark grey morn and left Markus to rework the way reports came out in 6.5 to satisfy people who were angry that the semi-new version made the #1 reason they played the game not work. Then he implemented something similar into the actual game.
So it's in there now and while not perfect it's looking really cool. One thing I loved about CatoBase was that after 20 years or so you could just lose yourself flipping through your league's history.
astrosfan64
05-29-2006, 12:51 PM
To clarify my position - yes I want SI to sell games (shock horror, company wants to make profit and stay in business ;) ) .... but the main reason I'm working in games and specifically text sims is because I love playing them myself.
As such our expansion into American sports is partially for business reasons but mainly because myself and the other chaps making these games want them to exist and eventually become as indepth and fun as Football Manager to play.
Simply put, currently speaking no one is getting rich from our American sports products however we have some very talented people working upon them and we obviously hope that in the long term they'll 'break' though.
Are they perfect - no unfortunately not, I'd be happy to apologise for that if anyone wants me to ... we will always strive to make them as realistic and fun as possible, but we are only human at the end of the day and unfortunately we are constricted by our own inadequacies and the limitations of the hardware people run the games on.
As always we will support our products to the best of our abilities and we are confident that vast majority of people playing them will enjoy them. Obviously the more feedback we recieve from people the easier it will be to evolve and improve each series going forward.
Call me a fan boy or whatever, but I'll buy every game from SI sight unseen untill they give me a reason not to.
EMH, FM the old CM were all quality products. OOTP was a good product when it was just Markus, it is going to be even better now.
But most of your FOFC guys are like the two old muppets that sit in the balcony.
Cards4ever
05-29-2006, 12:51 PM
...says the guy posting on a Front Office Football message board.
Obviously OOTP is going to have its flaws. Puresim does as well (for instance, if you start a sim in 1876 you will have to use a closer who will save 50 games for you just the same as if you started play in 2006). I think that you're not looking for a "good" game, you're looking for a "perfect" game. And well, I guess you're going to have to keep looking. If you want hyper-realistic baseball, buy Diamond Mind or Strat-o-Matic. Puresim's come a long way in the past couple years, but it still hiccups a lot. Baseball Mogul is just plain trash. That leaves OOTP. Maybe it's the best only by default, but it's still the best IMO and the competition in the field right now will only help.
So you don't have a problem with 30yo's in Rookie Ball? Or MR's starting games on a consistent basis and only pitching 3 innnings?
I'm not sure if you know or not, but I believe JIMGA has been around since the first edition of OOTP and I believe was on a beta team for OOTP2 or 3. So, all of these issues have been mentioned to Markus before and the promise of each edition has been to fix these issues but they keep coming back.
I think that most of us just don't care about the new features and just fix the problems that exist now and have existed for some time.
Johnny Slick
05-29-2006, 01:01 PM
So you don't have a problem with 30yo's in Rookie Ball?It's a minor problem, and to be honest pretty realistic given the kinds of games I play (I usually start with the deadball era, when the minors weren't controlled by Major League Baseball and often signed older vets, even if they were "low" minors - as late as the 40s, I believe Lefty Grove was extending his career this way).
Or MR's starting games on a consistent basis and only pitching 3 innnings? I haven't seen them start games "on a consistent basis" ever. I've seen them get the occasional spot start, and while I don't like the fact that the majority of players in the game apparently can't work 6 innings a night, it's still a relatively minor problem. Actually IMO the fact that relievers consistently have higher ERAs than starters is a bigger issue to me. And, as has been mentioned, apparently Markus did recognize the issue this time around and hopefully will fix it in a patch. Maybe it's an easier thing to fix now given the new engine. I don't know.
I'm not sure if you know or not, but I believe JIMGA has been around since the first edition of OOTP and I believe was on a beta team for OOTP2 or 3. So, all of these issues have been mentioned to Markus before and the promise of each edition has been to fix these issues but they keep coming back.
I think that most of us just don't care about the new features and just fix the problems that exist now and have existed for some time.I think that I've been with the game since version 2 and I continue to buy it not because everything I want in the game has been included but because it's still worth paying for.
jbmagic
05-29-2006, 01:09 PM
If the same AI bugs are in the old engine on previous ootp versions and are still in the new engine of ootp 2006 according to the reports we able to view than it must be a coding problem that someone is not undersanding over there.
These old AI bugs should of been gone by now and not still showing up on current version still.
All the new features is great for ootp 2006 so far. Just a little concern about the AI like a lot of us here are.
Ragone
05-29-2006, 01:11 PM
Is Peter Prospar in this game? :)
hehe older cm player joke.. however i look forward to finding low level players with high rated abilities
TroyF
05-29-2006, 01:27 PM
SI rules...OOTP has some work to do (I couldn't get into OOTP 6 for the life of me...not even sure if I played 5 that much), and I hope Markus can get things straight for the SI version of this game.
This looks really good:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
Is that something generated by the game?
Yeah, it's generated by the game.
TroyF
05-29-2006, 01:30 PM
So you don't have a problem with 30yo's in Rookie Ball? Or MR's starting games on a consistent basis and only pitching 3 innnings?
I'm not sure if you know or not, but I believe JIMGA has been around since the first edition of OOTP and I believe was on a beta team for OOTP2 or 3. So, all of these issues have been mentioned to Markus before and the promise of each edition has been to fix these issues but they keep coming back.
I think that most of us just don't care about the new features and just fix the problems that exist now and have existed for some time.
Yeah, looking deeper, there are still some big problems. I told you guys, I just took a quick glance.
At least I don't see top notch rookies on the waiver wire. That's something. :)
Marc Vaughan
05-29-2006, 02:32 PM
And that's exactly what a lot of us would like to see ... but have just about given up on living long enough to get.
These things take time unfortunately - please bear in mind that FM is now a decade plus in the evolution and as such has a heck of a head start on any other game.
But do they have to be? Or, more accurately, do those inadequacies have to persist instead of being resolved?
They don't have to 'persist' and we'll be endeavouring to support OOTP in the same way we do FM - that is correcting any reported problems with the game.
Please bear in mind that some bugs which might seem obvious to yourself might easily be missed by a hundred other people because of the things you look for in a game or indeed just pure luck, as such please bear with us and help us ensure the game evolves and improves going forward.
I'm confident it'll be fun and stable upon release and obviously we'll support it to our utmost as time goes on.
If you want to make OOTP, or any other baseball game, the diamond equivalent of CM/FM, you're going to need enough people involved in the project on a daily basis that have the same relationship. That understand when something is wrong, that knows when something feels right, that knows & understands baseball better than they know their multiplication tables. Otherwise, this merry-go-round is going to just going to keep on spinning, with nobody on either side of the equation truly getting what they want.
I agree wholeheartedly and Markus does indeed know baseball to an anal extent and again if the game proves successful and we are able to expand the team further then obviously baseball knowledge and a love of all such things will be one of the main things we'll look for ...
(please bear in mind that those of us baseball newbies within SI ... such as myself, haven't worked upon OOTP (beyond the 'techy' and/or suggestion level of things) simply because of this lack of knowledge)
Marc Vaughan
05-29-2006, 02:36 PM
Yeah, looking deeper, there are still some big problems. I told you guys, I just took a quick glance.
Please also bear in mind that screenshots/generated data which is given out pre-release is always going to be potentially screwy in some manner ...
This is simply because the game is still in development and as such there will be oddities within it until its finally tuned and tweaked for the gold master (or download equivalent ;) ).
You'd be amazed at some of the stuff which is 'odd' in FM games up until a few weeks before release simply because of internal balancing issues.
GoSeahawks
05-29-2006, 03:18 PM
I have a minor complaint, but it's something that has always bugged me about the OOTP series.
It doesn't seem like velocity plays into a pitchers strikeout ability. I really hate seeing a guy who throws 85-87mph striking out 350 guys in a season.
sovereignstar
05-29-2006, 03:18 PM
...says the guy posting on a Front Office Football message board.
You should go back to where you came from.
GoSeahawks
05-29-2006, 03:24 PM
You should go back to where you came from.
C'mon, the guy has a point. It's not like this forum discusses anything outside of Front Office Football.
dervack
05-29-2006, 05:48 PM
You should go back to where you came from.
He can't, he's been banned from there. Twice.
sovereignstar
05-29-2006, 06:00 PM
He can't, he's been banned from there. Twice.
Shocking.
TroyF
05-29-2006, 06:03 PM
Please also bear in mind that screenshots/generated data which is given out pre-release is always going to be potentially screwy in some manner ...
This is simply because the game is still in development and as such there will be oddities within it until its finally tuned and tweaked for the gold master (or download equivalent ;) ).
You'd be amazed at some of the stuff which is 'odd' in FM games up until a few weeks before release simply because of internal balancing issues.
I understand Marc. I know tweaks are being made to the game and it does look like some of the complaints were addressed in the latest build.
I'm going to d/l OOTP on Wednesday night and run it through its paces and judge it then. I'm not going to let past OOTP history get in the way. And some of these things aren't even game killers for me.
I can live with some 30 year old A ball players if the player development model is working and there are still 20 year olds developing right to the major leagues. I believe the amateur draft is 25 players or so from what I've been reading. If that's the case, the age of the lower minors is going to increase. Real MLB drafts have 50 rounds.
I'm also hard on baseball sims because I know baseball. I'm sure if I were a fan of soccer growing up, I'd have some issues with FM as well.
At the end of the day, provided there aren't any insane bugs (such as middle relievers making 30 starts, first round draft picks getting waived after one year, etc), the main thing is going to be how fun the game is.
Do I enjoy loading it up? Do I want to play one more season? Do I stay up an extra hour because the game has me hooked? If the answers are yes, I can forgive a lot of sins.
The last few versions of OOTP failed miserably for me in that regard. We'll find out about this one in a few days.
MizzouRah
05-29-2006, 08:55 PM
I'll admit I'm a sucker sometimes. In this case, this is loyalty to a company.
I've never purchased an SI game that I didn't spend hours and hours on. Both the soccer and hockey games have been terrific. I'm taking a flyer on this one. It may bite me in the ass, but I'm someone who is loyal to companies who have consistently have hit the mark.
Despite my pessimism, I'm going to give this a fair chance. Now, if this game doesn't meet the mark? Then I'll have to reevaluate how I purchase hings from SI in the future.
I've never purchased an SI game that I spent more than 5 hours on. ;) I've tried to like FM but couldn't, EHM was too hard to navigate and figure out what to do.. believe me, I love hockey. I won't make that mistake with ootp unless these issues we've went over are fixed, period. Puresim has my money and I still play 6.5 even though there are a few huge issues that annoy me.
Can I say that the SI interface really bugs me? It does... I do hope it succeeds though and I have no doubts Markus will support it.. there's too many people buying it. It's just frustrating to see these issues still exsist, even with a so called, "new engine". (shrugs shoulders)
I can't wait to hear your impressions Troy.
MizzouRah
05-29-2006, 09:15 PM
dola,
Briefly looking at these reports, and I say, "briefly".
<TABLE class=lpo style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=911><TBODY><TR><TD class=sl width=80>01-01-2015</TD><TD class=sl width=831>SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Contact: 9 (10); Power: 2 (2); Eye: 8 (8).</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg width=80>04-01-2015</TD><TD class=slg width=831>Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Detroit Hammerheads (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/teams/team_3.html) organization.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=sl width=80>04-13-2015</TD><TD class=sl width=831>Won the FBLS A SL2 Player of the Week Award.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg width=80>04-25-2015</TD><TD class=slg width=831>Was selected to the 2015 FBL Short Season A All-Star Game.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=sl width=80>08-15-2015</TD><TD class=sl width=831>Released by the Detroit (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/teams/team_3.html) organization.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg width=80>08-15-2015</TD><TD class=slg width=831>Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Detroit Hammerheads (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/teams/team_3.html) organization.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=sl width=80>11-15-2015</TD><TD class=sl width=831>Became a minor league free agent.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg width=80>01-01-2016</TD><TD class=slg width=831>SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Contact: 8 (9); Power: 1 (1); Eye: 9 (9).</TD></TR><TR><TD class=sl width=80>04-01-2016</TD><TD class=sl width=831>Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Denver Clippers (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/teams/team_15.html) organization.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg width=80>07-26-2016</TD><TD class=slg width=831>Injured (Bruised Wrist), day-to-day for 2 weeks.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I love the scouting updated ratings line, but how does he win the player of the week award, then selected to the A all star game and then released? In the SAME DAY Detroit calls him back and says, "no hard feelings, we want you back". Three months later, they release him again?
This is like the third player I've looked at. :confused:
TroyF
05-29-2006, 10:20 PM
I've never purchased an SI game that I spent more than 5 hours on. ;) I've tried to like FM but couldn't, EHM was too hard to navigate and figure out what to do.. believe me, I love hockey. I won't make that mistake with ootp unless these issues we've went over are fixed, period. Puresim has my money and I still play 6.5 even though there are a few huge issues that annoy me.
Can I say that the SI interface really bugs me? It does... I do hope it succeeds though and I have no doubts Markus will support it.. there's too many people buying it. It's just frustrating to see these issues still exsist, even with a so called, "new engine". (shrugs shoulders)
I can't wait to hear your impressions Troy.
We are far apart there. I love the SI interface. I find it easy to get to wherever I want to go and very intuitive.
Some of that was because FM hooked me.
I've played every SI release over 5 hours in a single sitting.
JonInMiddleGA
05-29-2006, 11:19 PM
I'm not sure if you know or not, but I believe JIMGA has been around since the first edition of OOTP and I believe was on a beta team for OOTP2 or 3.
Ouch. Did you have to remind me of that?
Easily THE worst voluntary experience of my entire life, one that quite possibly (hell, probably is more like it) colors my feelings about gaming in general to this day.
I was, almost without a doubt, the second most unhappy person in that whole ordeal. The name of the most unhappy escapes me at the moment, but he was the guy who screamed even louder than me most of the time.
I'm almost certain you'll remember the guy I'm talking about, hopefully you can fill in his screen name for me ('cause now that I've tried to think of it, it'll most likely bug the crap out of me until somebody comes up with it).
lighthousekeeper
05-29-2006, 11:44 PM
At least I don't see top notch rookies on the waiver wire. That's something. :)
No, but guys who hold the all time single season HR record and have $27M left on their contract are released outright:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_647.html
There's a story behind this one though. After hitting 300 HRs over 6 seasons, including a monster season in which he belted 70, Troy Willis decided in 2014 that baseball in its current state was not providing him with the challenge that he craved. So, despite pleading from friends and family, Willis switched from using maple bats, to bats made entirely from balsa wood. The Virginia Beach Owl's management couldn't disuade him and were forced to let him go. The 30 yr old was unfazed, referring to himself as a 'born again catcher', and signed a minor league contract, returning to play in the rookie league in 2015.
TroyF
05-30-2006, 12:10 AM
No, but guys who hold the all time single season HR record and have $27M left on their contract are released outright:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_647.html
There's a story behind this one though. After hitting 300 HRs over 6 seasons, including a monster season in which he belted 70, Troy Willis decided in 2014 that baseball in its current state was not providing him with the challenge that he craved. So, despite pleading from friends and family, Willis switched from using maple bats, to bats made entirely from balsa wood. The Virginia Beach Owl's management couldn't disuade him and were forced to let him go. The 30 yr old was unfazed, referring to himself as a 'born again catcher', and signed a minor league contract, returning to play in the rookie league in 2015.
Bizzare player. Look at his batting average and OBP.
He must have been hitting with balsa wood after 2013.
As usual in the history of OOTP, the problem isn't that he dropped off the map, it's how the game handled it. Same old, same old.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 12:39 AM
C'mon, the guy has a point. It's not like this forum discusses anything outside of Front Office Football.I don't mean this in a mean way, but you're missing my point. FOF has some big ol' flaws and "undocumented features" of its own. The lack of an ability to choose a smaller league size is a deal-breaker for me (although I did buy FOF 2k4 and a couple earlier versions). I'm sure that the next version, when it comes out, will be great and all, but I am sure there will be guys who dismiss it out of hand without giving it a try like some here are doing with OOTP. All's I'm saying is, both the pot and the kettle are a little on the dark grey side.
As for being banned from OOTP, it's true. For those who don't go over there, their policy is basically that you get 4 warnings and then are kicked out forever. I was warned for rather silly things:
- For posting a link to Lego Porn.
- For another thread about posting your name at work with a certain unnamed part of your anatomy. It was a parody thread. They're popular over there. Well, they were before the OT section died.
- For quoting "Scarface". Apparently I got 4 warnings just for this one.
So I left and six months later came back with a new name, the same email address and IP, and so on. I expected to get banned immediately but didn't. Two of the mods knew who I was but didn't do anything because I wasn't doing anything to cause them to want to kick me out. Unfortunately, eventually the guy who dropped 4 warnings for one post on me the first time found out and booted me. I'd had no warnings this time and was simply told "creating aliai to get around bannings is against the rules".
Ah well. I think the rules are stupid, but that doesn't take anything away from the game. You can make up your own minds as to whether I am a bad person or not. I certainly cannot be accused of having an overly large sense of tact.
Stevebsfan
05-30-2006, 12:44 AM
Well, I went out and got Puresim, and all I have to say is I really can't wait for OOTP. Puresim is a nice game, i'm not going to bash it, but it's just not for me. I probably will wait a week or two, like I did for PS just to make sure they get the initial bugs ironed out, but i'm really hoping OOTP is going to be something real special in baseball sims. Hope i'm not let down
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 02:29 AM
Well, I went out and got Puresim, and all I have to say is I really can't wait for OOTP. Puresim is a nice game, i'm not going to bash it, but it's just not for me. I probably will wait a week or two, like I did for PS just to make sure they get the initial bugs ironed out, but i'm really hoping OOTP is going to be something real special in baseball sims. Hope i'm not let downI'll be honest... the latest Road to Release blog is making me REALLY randy for OOTP. I think PS is starting to get to the point where it can compete with OOTP 6.5, but the new version of OOTP... MAN.
TroyF
05-30-2006, 07:47 AM
I'll be honest... the latest Road to Release blog is making me REALLY randy for OOTP. I think PS is starting to get to the point where it can compete with OOTP 6.5, but the new version of OOTP... MAN.
So none of what has just been posted even concerns you a little? I mean, career HR leaders released with 27 million left on their contract? Guys getting released and resigned on the same day.
I mean, that doesn't even make you take a step back and worry?
TroyF
05-30-2006, 08:08 AM
New reports posted.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
I looked at three guys and didn't see an issue. Which means all Markus had to do was have the other 2000+ players in the universe fixed and we should be ready to go. :)
FWIW, one of the guys I clicked on was 33 and in A ball. I was about to start a rip and realized after looking he was there after coming off a 7 month back injury. I don't have issues with that.
FWIW, I'm fairly certain the other 2000 guys aren't fixed. I'm keeping notes on what you guys are finding. When I get the full release, I'm running a sim from 1901 to 2006 with all fictional players.
I'll post those reports on a web site after I'm through. Look forwad to seeing what you guys find.
So none of what has just been posted even concerns you a little? I mean, career HR leaders released with 27 million left on their contract? Guys getting released and resigned on the same day.
I mean, that doesn't even make you take a step back and worry?
I'm wondering if the release/resign issue might be some type of funky reporting of a renegotiated contract or something. I haven't spent any time looking through the reports, but when I see a post I'll follow the link and that was my first thought on seeing the release/resign stuff.
Also, when I followed the link to the career HR leader mentioned above, it took me to a mediocre pitcher so I don't know what's up with that. Maybe something to do with my internet history or the report had been updated since then. *shurg*
lighthousekeeper
05-30-2006, 08:43 AM
Also, when I followed the link to the career HR leader mentioned above, it took me to a mediocre pitcher so I don't know what's up with that. Maybe something to do with my internet history or the report had been updated since then. *shurg*
Yeah that happens everytime they regenerate the reports - all past reports get replaced.
miked
05-30-2006, 08:51 AM
New reports posted.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/
I looked at three guys and didn't see an issue. Which means all Markus had to do was have the other 2000+ players in the universe fixed and we should be ready to go. :)
FWIW, one of the guys I clicked on was 33 and in A ball. I was about to start a rip and realized after looking he was there after coming off a 7 month back injury. I don't have issues with that.
FWIW, I'm fairly certain the other 2000 guys aren't fixed. I'm keeping notes on what you guys are finding. When I get the full release, I'm running a sim from 1901 to 2006 with all fictional players.
I'll post those reports on a web site after I'm through. Look forwad to seeing what you guys find.
Look harder. Felipe Mirales (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5566.html) led the league in ERA and also logged an inning in CF/LF. 4 innings in RF and 3 innings at SS. From 2011-2015, he played 7 innings at SS, 8 in RF, 2 at 1B, nearly 3 in CF and a touch of LF.
But it's hard to fix these type of issues when you come on here preaching that waiver stupidity and lack of fundemental understanding of some aspects of the game is just developer/human error and shouldn't be expected to be fixed. Every little thing they post makes it seem more like Markus tried to duplicate 6.5 into a new engine and database of SI, and didn't take a look back and address the consistent problems that pop up every version.
John Galt
05-30-2006, 08:54 AM
In the new reports, I noticed a couple worries. First, all the K leaders have low velocity. The highest velocity of the top 5 players is 86-88 MPH. I don't think that has ever happened. Second, there seems to be a lot of variability for pitchers with HRs allowed. While HRs allowed is often variable, I didn't see a lot of rhyme or reason for the changes. It seems like most pitchers were all over the map. But I didn't look at too many players, so maybe I'm missing something.
John Galt
05-30-2006, 09:01 AM
I think the players out of position problem extends beyond pitchers. I see several 1B who spend time at 2B or SS either in the majors or in the minors. While 2B isn't unheard of, there shouldn't be any reason for a 1B to log 5 games in a season at SS. If someone is going to cover for a shortage at SS, it should be 3B, 2B, or a player should be called up to fill the hole. While it is certainly worse for a pitcher to be playing the field on a regular basis, I think the AI about covering holes in the lineup is a bit screwy from the ground up.
MizzouRah
05-30-2006, 09:01 AM
In the new reports, I noticed a couple worries. First, all the K leaders have low velocity. The highest velocity of the top 5 players is 86-88 MPH. I don't think that has ever happened. Second, there seems to be a lot of variability for pitchers with HRs allowed. While HRs allowed is often variable, I didn't see a lot of rhyme or reason for the changes. It seems like most pitchers were all over the map. But I didn't look at too many players, so maybe I'm missing something.
I don't remember this being an issue in 6.5.. I'll have to dig into my career league when I get home tonight.
John Galt
05-30-2006, 09:05 AM
Another concern. It seems to me that BABIP is way too consistent. While OOTP gave indications before that it was moving toward a strong DIPS theory, this version seems to reject DIPS entirely. Instead, pitchers who have bad luck seem to do so on a consistent basis. Again, I've only been looking at a few players, so maybe my sample size is skewed, but the numbers don't look right to me.
oykib
05-30-2006, 09:10 AM
Another concern. It seems to me that BABIP is way too consistent. While OOTP gave indications before that it was moving toward a strong DIPS theory, this version seems to reject DIPS entirely. Instead, pitchers who have bad luck seem to do so on a consistent basis. Again, I've only been looking at a few players, so maybe my sample size is skewed, but the numbers don't look right to me.
Man, I'm gettin scared now...
TroyF
05-30-2006, 09:15 AM
Look harder. Felipe Mirales (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5566.html) led the league in ERA and also logged an inning in CF/LF. 4 innings in RF and 3 innings at SS. From 2011-2015, he played 7 innings at SS, 8 in RF, 2 at 1B, nearly 3 in CF and a touch of LF.
But it's hard to fix these type of issues when you come on here preaching that waiver stupidity and lack of fundemental understanding of some aspects of the game is just developer/human error and shouldn't be expected to be fixed. Every little thing they post makes it seem more like Markus tried to duplicate 6.5 into a new engine and database of SI, and didn't take a look back and address the consistent problems that pop up every version.
I told you, there were 2000 guys I didn't look at. :)
CraigSca
05-30-2006, 09:51 AM
Another concern. It seems to me that BABIP is way too consistent. While OOTP gave indications before that it was moving toward a strong DIPS theory, this version seems to reject DIPS entirely. Instead, pitchers who have bad luck seem to do so on a consistent basis. Again, I've only been looking at a few players, so maybe my sample size is skewed, but the numbers don't look right to me.
I'm on the outside looking in here, but I remember having BABIP pegged at around .290 for each pitcher. The theory being that pure randomness would make fluctuations a normal part of the game. I'm not sure if he did, but I would have added a small random variance each year for each pitcher to get rid of any year-to-year correlation (just to be sure).
John Galt
05-30-2006, 10:00 AM
I'm on the outside looking in here, but I remember having BABIP pegged at around .290 for each pitcher. The theory being that pure randomness would make fluctuations a normal part of the game. I'm not sure if he did, but I would have added a small random variance each year for each pitcher to get rid of any year-to-year correlation (just to be sure).
Below are the bad-luck pitchers that worried me:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_6923.html
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_6270.html
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_7522.html
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_6910.html
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_6904.html
There are probably more, but those were the ones I was looking at. I didn't see any good-luck pitchers (but I didn't look too hard), so maybe the problem isn't too bad. But there are several pitchers who never seem to get their BABIP below .300.
Is there any report which has the whole league's BABIP? It may be that the whole league is skewed high (which isn't necessarily a problem)
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 10:08 AM
Look harder. Felipe Mirales (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5566.html) led the league in ERA and also logged an inning in CF/LF. 4 innings in RF and 3 innings at SS. From 2011-2015, he played 7 innings at SS, 8 in RF, 2 at 1B, nearly 3 in CF and a touch of LF.
First pitcher I looked at (selected the winningest pitcher on a dominant team)
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_404.html
Stephen Watts of Philadelphia, not only is he a 3-time AS pitcher but he also logged time in the field at 1B, SS, RF, 3B, LF, and C.
Then again, so did their pitcher with the 2nd most IP for them
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_1370.html
Ed Bittner has played SS, LF, C, 2B, RF, CF.
Clearly Philadelphia acquires players on the philosophy of "best athlete available".
CraigSca
05-30-2006, 10:15 AM
First pitcher I looked at (selected the winningest pitcher on a dominant team)
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_404.html
Stephen Watts of Philadelphia, not only is he a 3-time AS pitcher but he also logged time in the field at 1B, SS, RF, 3B, LF, and C.
He's probably a pitcher that refused to re-sign with his team and the owner is changing his primary position before cutting him.
lighthousekeeper
05-30-2006, 10:20 AM
Another thing I noticed (not sure if a bug at all) is that it seems that there are very few players that keep up their ratings enough to stay inthe majors. A lot of guys who were good, but then get sent back to the minor after several good seasons.
Looking at the career games played leaderboard:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/league_100_leaderboard_career_0_106.html
Granted this covers 11 years and only a few players are lucky enough to have such long careers, but over these 11 years, only 9 batters in total played in at least 80% of the games between 2006 and 2016. Is this accurate?
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 10:27 AM
Poor Chavez Zuniga ... 22 y/o OF who can really play CF (19 fielding rating there, but just a 2 in LF and a 5 in RF). Average hitter at best, but boy he sure gets around.
Drafted in June 2014 by Houston (6th Round)
Traded in December 2014 to Scottsdale
In 2015 he plays 6 games at Short-A, 69 games at A, and 1 game in the majors
November 14th 2015 - Promoted from A to AA
March 5th 2016 - Recalled from AA (presumably to major league spring camp)
April 4th 2016 - Optioned to AA
April 22nd 2016 - Designated for assignment, put on waivers, taken off 40-man
April 25th 2016 - Assigned to A
May 28th 2016 - Assigned to Short-A
June 15th 2016 - Assigned to Rookie League
July 23rd 2016 - Promoted to Short-A
August 6th 2016 - Demoted to Rookie League
August 7th 2016 - Promoted to Short-A
August 13th 2016 - Demoted to Rookie League
August 14th 2016 - Released
That last week had to be kind of rough on the kid, I mean, he hits .351 in 17 games at Short-A, drives in 14 runs, steals 11 bases, but gets shuttled back down ... and then up ... and then down ... and then out ... all in a space of 29 days.
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 10:32 AM
Some weirdness...
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/team_11_transactions_0_2015.html
By my count, from April 16 to April 29, the team assigned 17 different shortstops to Triple A Tacoma. There don't seem to be any repeats.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/team_22_transactions_0_2015.html
This is the log for Tacoma... it looks like with each new SS that comes in, they demote the previous guy down the ladder (mostly to AA or rookie). Meanwhile, the lower levels are bouncing guys back up a level or two. Seems to be a state of flux for a week or two with shortstops being passed back and forth between levels.
For example:
Monday, April 27th, 2015
Received SS D. Lassales from Major League Level Cleveland.
Tuesday, April 28th, 2015
Received SS S. Egbuhuzo from Major League Level Cleveland.
Demoted SS D. Lassales to Rookie League Buffalo.
Wednesday, April 29th, 2015
Received SS B. Rose from Major League Level Cleveland.
Demoted SS S. Egbuhuzo to Rookie League Buffalo.
Friday, May 1st, 2015
Received SS M. Henn from Double A Hampton Falls.
Demoted SS B. Rose to Double A Hampton Falls.
It just seems odd that a.) an organization would have 17 shortstops in the first place, and b.) that there would be so much movement after the season had started in early April.
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 10:38 AM
Here's an interesting guy
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_9133.html
Eloy Paradez, 20 y/o, 6'6" 215 lb RHP (LHB though), Middle Reliever
06-15-2015 Drafted in the 2015 first-year player draft (Round 22, Pick 6, 342nd overall Pick) by the Houston Fury.
07-18-2015 Was selected to the 2015 FBL Rookie League All-Star Game.
01-01-2016 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: - (-); Movement: 1 (6); Control: - (-).
06-16-2016 Released by the Houston organization.
06-20-2016 Signed a 1-year minor league contract with the Philadelphia Moguls organization.
In & of themselves, the transactions aren't all that interesting. But check out his stats from his All-Star season:
16 games, 1-0, 3.96 ERA, 25 IP, 15 BB, 10 K, 1.56 WHIP,
Either this rookie league is really pitching weak or else he had a relative on the All-Star selection committee.
cuervo72
05-30-2006, 10:44 AM
Wai-wai-wait...I'm still stuck on v5, but looking at the guys that Galt listed...is ground ball % not even a percentage anymore? Is this a 1-10 deal? Why is it even listed as a percentage then?
stevew
05-30-2006, 10:45 AM
Poor Chavez Zuniga ... 22 y/o OF who can really play CF (19 fielding rating there, but just a 2 in LF and a 5 in RF). Average hitter at best, but boy he sure gets around.
Drafted in June 2014 by Houston (6th Round)
Traded in December 2014 to Scottsdale
In 2015 he plays 6 games at Short-A, 69 games at A, and 1 game in the majors
November 14th 2015 - Promoted from A to AA
March 5th 2016 - Recalled from AA (presumably to major league spring camp)
April 4th 2016 - Optioned to AA
April 22nd 2016 - Designated for assignment, put on waivers, taken off 40-man
April 25th 2016 - Assigned to A
May 28th 2016 - Assigned to Short-A
June 15th 2016 - Assigned to Rookie League
July 23rd 2016 - Promoted to Short-A
August 6th 2016 - Demoted to Rookie League
August 7th 2016 - Promoted to Short-A
August 13th 2016 - Demoted to Rookie League
August 14th 2016 - Released
That last week had to be kind of rough on the kid, I mean, he hits .351 in 17 games at Short-A, drives in 14 runs, steals 11 bases, but gets shuttled back down ... and then up ... and then down ... and then out ... all in a space of 29 days.
Man, hopefully stuff like that is the exception to the rule, I think I'll be waiting on this game for now.
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 10:46 AM
It just seems odd that a.) an organization would have 17 shortstops in the first place, and b.) that there would be so much movement after the season had started in early April.
Not any odder IMO than Scottsdale having 11 RF, 6 CF, and 6 LF ... all assigned to their Rookie League team.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/teams/team_83_roster_page.html
Of course, maybe they're just balancing their roster:
1B = 7
2B = 3
3B = 2
SS = 6
C = 4
So 22 non-outfielders.
But I'm sure the logjam of 23 OF's will clear up soon ... after all, 10 of those are age 25+
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 10:47 AM
A usability suggestion, totally unrelated to stats, etc:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/leagues/league_100_scores.html
This is the boxscores page. You can choose a new date using the dropdowns in the top-left area. However, the page is set to auto-load after each selection. So if I want to change from August 15, 2016 to April 7, 2015, I have to wait for three new screens to load.
Would be better to turn off the auto-load and just have a "go" button I could click once I had the date set.
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 10:51 AM
And this crap is with less than a half hour of looking at the HTML reports.
Go back & read what I said earlier -- if you want to get this right, you better find some people who have the slightest clue how baseball actually works.
Right now, the personnel management is downright comical.
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 10:51 AM
On a team's main page, there is a fielding report. At the bottom of that report there's a note that reads "Numbers in headings are league average values." But I don't see any numbers in the headings.
e.g. http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/history/team_year_11_2015.html
Also, it would be more user-friendly to have title tags on the HTML pages. These could be auto-generated, along the lines of [report name] - [team name] - [year]
lighthousekeeper
05-30-2006, 10:52 AM
Wai-wai-wait...I'm still stuck on v5, but looking at the guys that Galt listed...is ground ball % not even a percentage anymore? Is this a 1-10 deal? Why is it even listed as a percentage then?
Don't know, but this guy:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_6270.html
led the league in 2012 with a GB% of 1.00.
Fortunately, the league doesn't have a minimum innings pitched to win this award, so he won it while only pitching 1 inning. :)
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 11:08 AM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_989.html
Through 2011, this guy had been a standout pitcher for Colorado, one of the best in the league.
Then...
11-26-2011 Signed a 4-year contract worth a total of $25,360,000 with the Philadelphia Moguls organization.
01-01-2012 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 8 (8); Movement: 13 (14); Control: 11 (11).
01-14-2012 Was traded by the Philadelphia Moguls to the Wichita Dazzle, along with $3,000,000, in exchange for CF J. Severance, SP D. Ridings.
Now that's not necessarily a bug, but it does seem unrealistic to have a guy sign a big money FA contract, then get traded before ever suiting up for his new team. Have you ever seen that in real-life MLB with an elite player? My guess is that the talent drop had something to do with it, although why is a guy taking a talent hit on new year's day?
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 11:11 AM
My guess is that the talent drop had something to do with it, although why is a guy taking a talent hit on new year's day?
I don't think his talent is dropping on New Year's, it's just that SISA is doing some evaluations on that particular day.
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 11:15 AM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_349.html
This guy is another stud pitcher. He lead the league in ERA six years in a row through 2011 and racks up big K's. But while Dalina (the guy in the example above) was signed a four-year, $26M deal as a free agent, this guy keeps signing low dollar extensions. In fact, he signs the exact same three-year contract extension worth $2,760,000 on three separate occasions.
So even though he's arguably the best pitcher in baseball, he's willing to play for under $1M a season while Dalina gets $6.5M. I understand that you want to factor in loyalty, but this guy needs a new agent.
Edit: Compate him to this guy (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_37.html) who signs extensions for $59M and $37M during his career.)
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 11:15 AM
I don't think his talent is dropping on New Year's, it's just that SISA is doing some evaluations on that particular day.
OK, but based on what? He hasn't played in two months.
Edit: OK, I see now. The SISA rankings only come out on New Year's day. OK, that makes sense then.
stevew
05-30-2006, 11:24 AM
Hey, at least it comes out tomorrow, so they will have 24 hours or so to fix all these bugs.
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 11:26 AM
I sense that I will be working on skins for the first couple of months.
astrosfan64
05-30-2006, 11:27 AM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_349.html
This guy is another stud pitcher. He lead the league in ERA six years in a row through 2011 and racks up big K's. But while Dalina (the guy in the example above) was signed a four-year, $26M deal as a free agent, this guy keeps signing low dollar extensions. In fact, he signs the exact same three-year contract extension worth $2,760,000 on three separate occasions.
So even though he's arguably the best pitcher in baseball, he's willing to play for under $1M a season while Dalina gets $6.5M. I understand that you want to factor in loyalty, but this guy needs a new agent.
Edit: Compate him to this guy (http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_37.html) who signs extensions for $59M and $37M during his career.)
I hate this message board. It makes me hate games before I even get them. Normally, I would blow this off, but these facts are hard to ignore. Just 40 posts ago, I was being a fanboy, now I'm afraid to purchase.
John Galt
05-30-2006, 11:28 AM
Hey, at least it comes out tomorrow, so they will have 24 hours or so to fix all these bugs.
I know this is funny, but it just makes me sad. :( I really wish Jim would work on a game for his favorite sport. Although it seems like there is a lot of competition, none of the baseball games are that great. I think FOF is rough around the edges, but at least it doesn't have the glaring holes of these baseball games. Puresim would be alright I think if the engine worked at a reasonable speed (but I don't really know because I don't play long enough because the engine is so slow). OOTP seems to have made no progress in certain areas despite numerous iterations of the franchise. That leaves little hope for the future. I actually like Baseball Mogul more than most, but it clearly has severe limitations (although it does somethings VERY well). Frankly, the state of baseball sim games is just depressing to me. Oh well.
TroyF
05-30-2006, 11:33 AM
Yep, simple insanity.
This is going to be useless for solo play in this condition.
Barring a miracle, PureSim will walk away with this round of baseball games going away.
Can someone make PureSim have those reports? :)
John Galt
05-30-2006, 11:36 AM
This is going to be useless for solo play in this condition.
I should add to my previous post that I'm a solo-only player, so while I'm sure OOTP does many things well in the multi-player world, those don't do anything for me. So, my comments were directed at solo play.
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 11:41 AM
I should add to my previous post that I'm a solo-only player, so while I'm sure OOTP does many things well in the multi-player world, those don't do anything for me. So, my comments were directed at solo play.
Y'know, given our many differences, it's kinda funny but I think our gaming interests/likes/wants might actually be pretty similar.
If you announce at some point that you've shifted more & more toward dice-and-chart/tabletop games, I'll really start to worry ;)
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 11:43 AM
I hate this message board. It makes me hate games before I even get them. Normally, I would blow this off, but these facts are hard to ignore.
Don't blame us if so many "Emperors" seem to prefer walking around buck naked ;)
John Galt
05-30-2006, 11:45 AM
Y'know, given our many differences, it's kinda funny but I think our gaming interests/likes/wants might actually be pretty similar.
If you announce at some point that you've shifted more & more toward dice-and-chart/tabletop games, I'll really start to worry ;)
Don't worry about that last part. I just don't have much time for many games in my life. I like the diversion they provide, but don't have much time to play them. As a result, I need a game that allows me to play in spurts over a period of time. Well designed sports sims can fit in that niche nicely for me. The same can't be said for dice and table games. Since I'm moving back to NYC soon, I will probably have even less to time to goof off, so all of my griping about the state of baseball sims is all for naught. But I still wish I had a game to play that really absorbed me with its realism for the times when I can play.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_989.html
Through 2011, this guy had been a standout pitcher for Colorado, one of the best in the league.
Then...
11-26-2011 Signed a 4-year contract worth a total of $25,360,000 with the Philadelphia Moguls organization.
01-01-2012 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 8 (8); Movement: 13 (14); Control: 11 (11).
01-14-2012 Was traded by the Philadelphia Moguls to the Wichita Dazzle, along with $3,000,000, in exchange for CF J. Severance, SP D. Ridings.
Now that's not necessarily a bug, but it does seem unrealistic to have a guy sign a big money FA contract, then get traded before ever suiting up for his new team. Have you ever seen that in real-life MLB with an elite player? My guess is that the talent drop had something to do with it, although why is a guy taking a talent hit on new year's day?
For me, this isn't much of an issue if it's a relatively rare event. I can see several reasons for something like this happening due to unexpected retirements/injuries/missing out on a free agent you thought you'd get/etc. There are a lot of reasons I could see someone making a deal for a recently signed free agent if they're in a bind. But the other pitcher you mentioned who kept signing the 3 year deals for less than a million a year and was a pretty solid pitcher is a much bigger issue for me. Not only does it make no sense, but it can screw up the financial balance of the game.
MrBug708
05-30-2006, 11:58 AM
Can we still get married and have kids in this game?
MizzouRah
05-30-2006, 12:03 PM
Funny thing is, as of yesteday nobody was discussing these issues over at the OOTP forums.
SunDevil
05-30-2006, 12:05 PM
I sense that I will be working on skins for the first couple of months.
Hey, there is another game where your artistic talent is needed.
http://www.maximum-football.com/
:)
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 12:05 PM
Hey, there is another game where your artistic talent is needed.
http://www.maximum-football.com/
:)
lol
stevew
05-30-2006, 12:07 PM
Funny thing is, as of yesteday nobody was discussing these issues over at the OOTP forums.
That's cause they are mostly all a bunch of monkeys.
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 12:13 PM
Funny thing is, as of yesteday nobody was discussing these issues over at the OOTP forums.
That's not funny, it's just sad.
What's even sadder is that the villification of those who dare to mention them is as inevitable as night following day.
Note FTR: to their credit, the criticism of those who point out issues will not come from SI. It'll be OOTP fanboys who get bent, but if their overall history is a predictor, most of the SI folks will handle it pretty well.
DanGarion
05-30-2006, 12:17 PM
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_989.html
Through 2011, this guy had been a standout pitcher for Colorado, one of the best in the league.
Then...
11-26-2011 Signed a 4-year contract worth a total of $25,360,000 with the Philadelphia Moguls organization.
01-01-2012 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 8 (8); Movement: 13 (14); Control: 11 (11).
01-14-2012 Was traded by the Philadelphia Moguls to the Wichita Dazzle, along with $3,000,000, in exchange for CF J. Severance, SP D. Ridings.
Now that's not necessarily a bug, but it does seem unrealistic to have a guy sign a big money FA contract, then get traded before ever suiting up for his new team. Have you ever seen that in real-life MLB with an elite player? My guess is that the talent drop had something to do with it, although why is a guy taking a talent hit on new year's day?
Wow sounds like the RWBL... :eek: :eek:
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 12:20 PM
For me, this isn't much of an issue if it's a relatively rare event.
Maybe not...
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_37.html
11-16-2015 Signed a 3-year contract worth a total of $17,460,000 with the Phoenix Terriers organization.
01-01-2016 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Contact: 15 (15); Power: 13 (13); Eye: 9 (9).
01-05-2016 Was traded by the Phoenix Terriers to the Colorado Springs Worms, along with $3,000,000, in exchange for MR L. Simenz, SP G. Rawlinson.
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_2321.html
11-17-2015 Signed a 4-year contract worth a total of $17,240,000 with the Colorado Springs Worms organization.
12-27-2015 Was traded by the Colorado Springs Worms to the Scottsdale Hunters, along with SP J. Chamarro, in exchange for MR E. Dormer.
Completely unrelated, but I love this guy's name:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5479.html
Pumpy Tudors
05-30-2006, 12:21 PM
Completely unrelated, but I love this guy's name:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_5479.html
Born in Toronto. Too bad he didn't take up hockey.
MizzouRah
05-30-2006, 12:31 PM
That's not funny, it's just sad.
What's even sadder is that the villification of those who dare to mention them is as inevitable as night following day.
Note FTR: to their credit, the criticism of those who point out issues will not come from SI. It'll be OOTP fanboys who get bent, but if their overall history is a predictor, most of the SI folks will handle it pretty well.
Imagine if you pre-ordered it, you'll get a special email with an early link to the download! ;)
Oh well... I guess we'll read some impressions here soon enough. Definitly disappointing, I do like some of what I've read and seen.
CraigSca
05-30-2006, 12:31 PM
Don't know, but this guy:
http://reports.ootpbaseball2006.com/sion/players/player_6270.html
led the league in 2012 with a GB% of 1.00.
Fortunately, the league doesn't have a minimum innings pitched to win this award, so he won it while only pitching 1 inning. :)
I think he's listing GB/FB ratio instead of GB%. He should update the header.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 12:34 PM
So none of what has just been posted even concerns you a little? I mean, career HR leaders released with 27 million left on their contract? Guys getting released and resigned on the same day.
I mean, that doesn't even make you take a step back and worry?Of course it does. However, we don't live in a black and white "no worries" vs. "I refuse to buy it" world. I am worried but confident that the game will get fixed.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 12:40 PM
I hate this message board. It makes me hate games before I even get them. Normally, I would blow this off, but these facts are hard to ignore. Just 40 posts ago, I was being a fanboy, now I'm afraid to purchase.Just get both PS and OOTP and press each to get the features and so on that the others have. The bad contracts and trades don't bother me quite as much because I like to do the "God Mode" thing (and the apparent increase of injuries to normal levels is going to be a boon), but I understand your point. A lot of folks may want to hold off getting the game at least until the 6/7 patch.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 12:42 PM
trola,For me, this isn't much of an issue if it's a relatively rare event. I can see several reasons for something like this happening due to unexpected retirements/injuries/missing out on a free agent you thought you'd get/etc. There are a lot of reasons I could see someone making a deal for a recently signed free agent if they're in a bind. But the other pitcher you mentioned who kept signing the 3 year deals for less than a million a year and was a pretty solid pitcher is a much bigger issue for me. Not only does it make no sense, but it can screw up the financial balance of the game.Isn't there a rule in real-life baseball that says that once you sign a free agent, you can't trade him for 365 days? That would fix this issue pretty quickly (although based on my experience with 6.5, the AI would just release the guy instead).
CraigSca
05-30-2006, 12:44 PM
trola,Isn't there a rule in real-life baseball that says that once you sign a free agent, you can't trade him for 365 days? That would fix this issue pretty quickly (although based on my experience with 6.5, the AI would just release the guy instead).
You know, I thought the same thing but I couldn't find any official reference to this rule. I could find the "you can't trade a player that was just drafted for a year", but not a free agent.
Maple Leafs
05-30-2006, 12:45 PM
trola,Isn't there a rule in real-life baseball that says that once you sign a free agent, you can't trade him for 365 days? That would fix this issue pretty quickly (although based on my experience with 6.5, the AI would just release the guy instead).
I don't think there is, because there have been FAs who've been dealt during the season. There have even been some rare cases where a low-level guy was dealt before spring training. But never a case of a major FA signing being dealt right away. Think about it, if a team signed a guy to a mega-deal and then traded him the next week, they'd never be able to sign another big name player again.
MrBug708
05-30-2006, 12:50 PM
Sign and Trades just arent as popular in MLB :)
TroyF
05-30-2006, 01:06 PM
Of course it does. However, we don't live in a black and white "no worries" vs. "I refuse to buy it" world. I am worried but confident that the game will get fixed.
Not a single one of these issues is "new"
What makes you think it'll get fixed in a patch?
JonInMiddleGA
05-30-2006, 01:10 PM
Not a single one of these issues is "new"
What makes you think it'll get fixed in a patch?
That's what I was going to ask.
I can see where there might be some desire to think "yeah, but this is SI, it'll be different".
But I don't believe that's applicable in this instance since the primary programmer/developer/designer/whateverthecorrectwordis is the same as its always been.
MizzouRah
05-30-2006, 01:10 PM
Not a single one of these issues is "new"
What makes you think it'll get fixed in a patch?
My thoughts exactly. You have to be kidding that you think the first patch will fix issues that have been going on for many versions now?
MrBug708
05-30-2006, 01:13 PM
Can we still get married and have kids in this game?
I think this issue is more important!
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 01:19 PM
Sign and Trades just arent as popular in MLB :)There's no reason to do a sign and trade without a salary cap.
Like I said, the waiver stuff concerns me a bit. It doesn't really bother me because I, like I said, control all the teams anyway. But I can certainly see how it'll bother others. The reason why I think these bugs have a better chance to get worked out is that Markus and co. can't blame things on the creaky engine anymore. Again, if you're worried right now, I'd wait at least a patch or two. And consider that it's a $35 game. I know, that's no excuse for it to have problems, but honestly I've gotten my 30 bucks worth from Puresim already and that was before Shaun fixed the closer issue.
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 01:20 PM
It's $35 dollars if you pre-order it.
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 01:21 PM
Dola-
Which reminds me of one of the better things I read at the OOTP boards. Something along the lines of, "If you are upset about the price of OOTP, then you should have pre-ordered it!"
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 01:24 PM
That was just a Euro gloating that he didn't have to pay 34.99 EU for the game because he pre-ordered it before SI set the "overseas" price.
Personally, I don't understand the whining about the price at all for any of these kinds of games, whether you're talking about FOF, PS, OOTP, or BM. They're all way underpriced IMO. You want an overpriced game? The people at Cactus League Developments would love to speak with you.
CraigSca
05-30-2006, 01:25 PM
It's $35 dollars if you pre-order it.
Will it be more if you don't?
korme
05-30-2006, 01:25 PM
How many licenses will we get? I'm home for a few days and wouldn't mind having it on my desktop, but I also want it when I'm at school 95% of the time on my laptop.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 01:29 PM
dola,I think this issue is more important!Let's face it: just about every game has its own bits of stupid. Baseball Mogul has hot dog pricing inextricably linked to the game even though they haven't had that for a couple years now. Strat-o-Matic one year trotted out "The Regulator" for their computer version, an arcade-type deal that would make the game generate a result from the best available column if you timed your swing correctly. Front Page Sports had, well, the fact that they didn't actually come out with an actual new football game after 1994. Puresim has to date avoided the really goofy or game-stopping stuff, but it's still relatively young (and to me, anyway, it's always going to be linked to a moron on the OOTP boards headlining poor reviews of PS with "Great news!!!!").
I am not defending manager mode except to say that it probably looked unstupid at the time.
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 01:29 PM
Will it be more if you don't?
Errr, that's a good question. I guess I just assumed that there was an actual reason to pre-ordering the game.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 01:29 PM
true dola,How many licenses will we get? I'm home for a few days and wouldn't mind having it on my desktop, but I also want it when I'm at school 95% of the time on my laptop.2. I'm gonna put it on my laptop too.
Johnny Slick
05-30-2006, 01:30 PM
doubleplus true dola,Errr, that's a good question. I guess I just assumed that there was an actual reason to pre-ordering the game.There is! You get the game 6-8 whole hours before everybody else!!!! Also, if you pre-ordered a long time ago you would have gotten a discount.
MrBug708
05-30-2006, 01:32 PM
Nah, I kinda liked having my kids in baseball...
sovereignstar
05-30-2006, 01:32 PM
Well, I'm an idiot then. Probably will be 35 dollars then.
jbmagic
05-30-2006, 02:24 PM
Not a single one of these issues is "new"
What makes you think it'll get fixed in a patch?
yep. Good Point.
If they where brand new AI bugs, I will feel a lot better.
They the same old AI bugs from previous versions of ootp.
Its really sad there still there for the new engine of ootp 2006.
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