Werewolf XXXVIII: Jack The Ripper (GAME OVER! GOOD WINS ON DAY SEVEN)

[Blade6119]

Lathum, I know you were in Cavell and that you left Cavell. I don't have any other information on the matter, but I do find it curious that the other people I saw in Cavell who left were all seen by Mr. Wednesday. That is an awfully big part of my motivation in voting for you.

He claims he never left clavell, so if you saw him leave...

[path12]

My father has had a heart attack. I am not officially dropping out of the game, yet, but my participation will be limited for a bit.

Very sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you both.

[Blade6119]

Cronin, best of wishes buddy...i hope he is alright!

[path12]

ok, i was rereading things from yesterday looking for things alan said i missed, and noticed this post from Blade.

if blade spent all his money on an urchin for last night, what was he doing out at the same time?

hookers and opium cost 5 shillings a piece, and Alan and I have both stated that we tried to buy the urchin....i bid 6 and didnt get it, so if blade started with the same 10 shillings I had, why was he out at all last night, since he spent didnt have the cash to do anything. (We know he was out since he went to the alarm raised by mr W.)

hopefully he will be back to answer this for me.

What if he runs the opium den? I don't know one way or another, but it might be an excuse for being out. That would also tie in with the idea of special roles having the same abilities regarding prostitutes/opium/urchins.

What I find more interesting is Lathum saying that he was going to look for hoops specifically. I can't specify a prostitute, just the areas I'd like to look for one.

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

VOTE LATHUM

I don't see myself as in-danger tonight anymore, and as I've said, I believe Mr. Weds to be innocent, perhaps engaged in some type of "constable" or "sherlock holmes" type action, so I am taking my vote off of him and putting it into Lathum for the reasons I said in my earlier post.

[path12]

In my dream, I saw them exchange money and Barkeep lead him away, into a room.

And then Barkeep said he got info attesting to his being good, if I recall. Thanks for the clarification.

[path12]

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this. I know that I do not have the ability to declare that I'm going to find a specific person - instead I can declare what district to visit. Do other people have the ability to specify a person instead of a zone with their actions? Or is this just an attempt to get me to admit to a role that I may or may not have?

Oops, I guess hoops already brought it up. That's what I get for posting before reading everything.

[path12]

Saldana, I agree there are some inconsistencies to be found in Blade's versions of how his mechanic works. But he was the first person to come out with the urchin ability that has been widely commented upon since that time. That carried a decent amount of weight for me. Enough that I, for now, will treat incongruent statements from Blade as in keeping with his sometimes wild/erratic play as a good guy.

I think it is a point worth scrutinizing further if there is sufficient push-back from people claiming the same role. Dubb, Alan, Path, others ... your thoughts?

I think it might be worth coming back to, but all and all Blade seems to be on the same page as I so far. I think we've got better targets for right now.

[saldana]

in answer to the question about people and places, i can request to check 2 different areas for hookers, but may not find any

[saldana]

dola, i cannot look for a specific person

[saldana]

Im here for the next hour, but i have to write a paper in that time span and really need to focus on it...anyone have a question that cant wait until late tonight?

blade, i would like you to read post 720 and 725 and explain the discrepancies i noted.

[path12]

Well, time to vote.

VOTE LATHUM

Reasons: Post #670: "I was searching for a prostitute when I realized I had been pick pocketed, I went off to look for the person who stole my money since obtaining a ladies services were out of the question."

Post #681: "If I was guilty the obvious move would be try and blend in with the pack, instead I went to find my money so I could get some tail..."

Post #693: "I knew hoops could vouch I was in that district since it was him (her?) I was going to see."

These do not match up with the way I understand the mechanics to be. Perhaps he has a role that allows him to do things somewhat differently, but there are holes in this story that I can't make sense of.

Couple that with the curious incident of four people being in an area and only three responding to a call for help and that explains my vote.

[Blade6119]

ok, i was rereading things from yesterday looking for things alan said i missed, and noticed this post from Blade.

if blade spent all his money on an urchin for last night, what was he doing out at the same time?

hookers and opium cost 5 shillings a piece, and Alan and I have both stated that we tried to buy the urchin....i bid 6 and didnt get it, so if blade started with the same 10 shillings I had, why was he out at all last night, since he spent didnt have the cash to do anything. (We know he was out since he went to the alarm raised by mr W.)

hopefully he will be back to answer this for me.
You will notice, while at face value quite similar, our two roles(if you have what you claim) are different. The evidence you left out, which could be damning so i should mention it, includes the fact i only gain 2 gold a night in comparison with most peoples 3(DT claims to make 4, so take that for what you will). As well, i can ONLY bid for an urchin with the full 10 gold. This is more restricting then what you claim, where you bid whatever price you felt like.

Im in the fun situation of having a role that is not listed in the initial rules. It was the reason, if you go back and look, i believed JE when he revealed his role before the lynch. Becuase i knew their were roles not listed. You can hunt me if you would like, but it will yield you only another day of dissapointment and attempts at positve remarks after the death of a good guy just like my fellow un-listed brother, JE.

[LoneStarGirl]

Wow guys. I am impressed by some of y'alls detective work. Lathum you definitly screwed up with what you said. People are stupid not to vote for you.

[b]unvote Mr. Wednesday[\b]

[b] vote lathum [b]

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, it looks like things are pretty settled. I have an intramural Ultimate game at 10 pm, so I need to leave now to get ready; if anything comes up, for better or for worse, I won't be able to address it until after I get back.

[Lathum]

Wow guys. I am impressed by some of y'alls detective work. Lathum you definitly screwed up with what you said. People are stupid not to vote for you.

[b]unvote Mr. Wednesday[\b]

[b] vote lathum [b]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

i didn't screw up at all, i am going to refrain from further comment

[hoopsguy]

He claims he never left clavell, so if you saw him leave...

I saw four people in Cavell, but they left. It does not specifically mention Lathum, but three of the people certainly did show up in Commercial, responding to a cry for help. The other is Lathum.

If he did not in fact leave Cavell then I guess I'm doing a horrible job of reading comprehension. I'll post the PM in its entirety in the post-game for people to analyze if this proves to be the case.

[path12]

I was trying to peg roles on him to explain away the parts of the story that weren't making sense. I'd assume that any lawmen/detectives/watchmen in the area would respond to a call for help. I was thinking bordello mum until he mentioned looking for some tail. The only wildcard for me right now is freemason.

[LoneStarGirl]

unvote mr wednesday

vote lathum

Lathum you definitly screwed up pal. Sorry to see you go. If you turn up good I will appologize a million times. but if you are bad then uhm... well i dont know. You can think of something

[path12]

dola, I'm also assuming that urchins are not looking for prostitutes.

[path12]

Damnit, missed the dola again.

[Swaggs]

Well, I have caught up. I like that I am seeing a few people drop some specific details into the conversation, as I feel like certain items are far too similar to my own to be ignored.

Unfortunately for him, I think Lathum claiming the ability to seek out a particular person, rather than an area, is too inconsistent to my own information, and what I have leared of others, so I'm going to go with him.

Vote Lathum

For it only being day 2, I feel pretty decent about the evidence available in making this vote.

[path12]

Yes, I was robbed. I had to use some of the money I had replace what was stolen.

DC, I just noticed this. What do you mean?

[Lathum]

you know what LSG, you're really pissing me off saying I screwed up when I didn't screw up at all so wait until you get the whole story before you become critical about my play.

[path12]

I hate when nobody comes to the vote leaders defense at all. Always makes me nervous.

[Blade6119]

you know what LSG, you're really pissing me off saying I screwed up when I didn't screw up at all so wait until you get the whole story before you become critical about my play.

Lathum, direct your anger to me...just relax a little, think about how much more you hate me then her, and let it slide. I get knocks like that quite regularly, to the point where my name and play style have become acceptable replacements for the words crazy and outlandish. Just brush it off and laugh as you bring about their deaths in the next 5 games...just wait, another egypt opportunity will come your way :p

[LoneStarGirl]

Lathum, calm down. In 25 minutes we will see

[Blade6119]

I hate when nobody comes to the vote leaders defense at all. Always makes me nervous.
In this game it likely means he either has a special role(those dont have allies really) for good or evil, or he is just really unlucky in that whoever his night 0 visit was hates him and wants him dead

[Schmidty]

Vote Lathum

I'm not sure how long I'll be in the game (because of internet issues), but I feel obligated to vote. This seems to be the best bet.

[path12]

In this game it likely means he either has a special role(those dont have allies really) for good or evil, or he is just really unlucky in that whoever his night 0 visit was hates him and wants him dead

Based on the story so far, how many good roles can you slot him in?

[saldana]

You will notice, while at face value quite similar, our two roles(if you have what you claim) are different. The evidence you left out, which could be damning so i should mention it, includes the fact i only gain 2 gold a night in comparison with most peoples 3(DT claims to make 4, so take that for what you will). As well, i can ONLY bid for an urchin with the full 10 gold. This is more restricting then what you claim, where you bid whatever price you felt like.

Im in the fun situation of having a role that is not listed in the initial rules. It was the reason, if you go back and look, i believed JE when he revealed his role before the lynch. Becuase i knew their were roles not listed. You can hunt me if you would like, but it will yield you only another day of dissapointment and attempts at positve remarks after the death of a good guy just like my fellow un-listed brother, JE.

relax there big guy...if you go back to yesterday, i had you listed as a solidly trusted player, and thought we both had the same role...apparently we have similar roles if yours is one that isnt listed...mine is just a normal londoner, which explains the differences...if you note, i never voted for you, or even pushed hard...i asked other people what they thought of the things i noticed, but i hardly think waiting for 2 or 3 hours for you to show up and explain yourself qualifies as hunting you

[DaddyTorgo]

ok. i'm around but this seems pretty settled-in

[Blade6119]

relax there big guy...if you go back to yesterday, i had you listed as a solidly trusted player, and thought we both had the same role...apparently we have similar roles if yours is one that isnt listed...mine is just a normal londoner, which explains the differences...if you note, i never voted for you, or even pushed hard...i asked other people what they thought of the things i noticed, but i hardly think waiting for 2 or 3 hours for you to show up and explain yourself qualifies as hunting you

No, it does not...but i know what the reaction was when JE revealed...much of an eh, he sound evil anyways. My role title, though on the side of good, is dark in nature. I was hoping to blend in as long as i could(though i was quite honest with all of my facts), seeing people begin to realize i am different i would like to nip any problems in the bud before its too late. With my schedule the next few days i wont have much time to defend myself until its too late to stop a bandwagon, and would rather prefer i prevented such actions from occuring now.

If you would like my role title im willing to be forthcoming, if you work under the basis despite its WW-potential to be evil, i work for good.

[Blade6119]

And it would explain more why i was out and about last night(which was you major concern), and even to a greater extent then you even think

[Lathum]

Lathum, direct your anger to me...just relax a little, think about how much more you hate me then her, and let it slide. I get knocks like that quite regularly, to the point where my name and play style have become acceptable replacements for the words crazy and outlandish. Just brush it off and laugh as you bring about their deaths in the next 5 games...just wait, another egypt opportunity will come your way :p

Blade, I appreciate the words, I really sincerly do but that's not the point. When people use words like "screwed up" it is very negative and since I didn't that annoys me and I consider it a personal attack.

[Raiders Army]

I hate when nobody comes to the vote leaders defense at all. Always makes me nervous.

Actually it's pretty nice that Sherlock and Watson would come to one another's aid just like the Chief and Lestrade would do the same. From what I can tell from the descriptions, none of the bad guys would work together except for possibly Moriarty and Fagin.

So it may be a good sign. :)

[Chief Rum]

Time check.

[Chief Rum]

The deadline has passed. Computing votes now.

[saldana]

No, it does not...but i know what the reaction was when JE revealed...much of an eh, he sound evil anyways. My role title, though on the side of good, is dark in nature. I was hoping to blend in as long as i could(though i was quite honest with all of my facts), seeing people begin to realize i am different i would like to nip any problems in the bud before its too late. With my schedule the next few days i wont have much time to defend myself until its too late to stop a bandwagon, and would rather prefer i prevented such actions from occuring now.

If you would like my role title im willing to be forthcoming, if you work under the basis despite its WW-potential to be evil, i work for good.

your title wont be needed...i trusted you before, got a little suspicious, and now trust you again....you have already shown more knowledge of abilities similar to mine than a wolf could have, so i am very sure we are on the same team.

[LoneStarGirl]

Blade, I appreciate the words, I really sincerly do but that's not the point. When people use words like "screwed up" it is very negative and since I didn't that annoys me and I consider it a personal attack.

Lathum I hope you know me well enough to know that I would never personally attack anybody, especially you.

[Lathum]

Lathum I hope you know me well enough to know that I would never personally attack anybody, especially you.

i do but i am very frustrated and you will understand soon, it just struck a nerve...:(

[Lathum]

fwiw, I would have voted for me today also

[Blade6119]

fwiw, I would have voted for me today also
Ahh, trying the reverse psychology of the self vote after the deadline to sway voters...its a bold move, lets see if it pays off ;)

Always a pleasure Lathum, i hope we get to play together again soon so i can continue to go out of my way and keep paying you back for how badly you owned me in Egypt with that mid-day kill.

[Blade6119]

Dola, i voted for you for strictly in game reasons, i just joke a lot as im sure your aware. No hard feelings, other then my still bruised ego :)

[LoneStarGirl]

Cheif you are slow :-)

[Lathum]

no worries Blade

[Chief Rum]

Cheif you are slow :-)

Heh heh sorry, you guys change your votes too much. ;)

Write up coming now.

[LoneStarGirl]

:D :p :( :) ;) :o
I want cool smilies like bullet

[Alan T]

Just got in.. is deadline an hour later than last night or did I just have too much to drink tonight?

My comment about Blade's story.. I originally assumed he had the same role as me and said he spent all of his money so as to not attract pickpockets, when in fact he only spent 8 shilling, leaving him 2 + a 3 shilling daily allowence for a night action.

Either that or waiting to trap folks claiming similar roles not knowing the full story, or not realizing how many people have a similar role. I left it as that and didn't really call him on the descrepencies because I know -someone- trumped my orphan bid and I had bid a fair amount. Without anyone else coming out and saying they got the urchins instead of blade, I assume his story is true.

If his role is indeed different, then he goes in the same category as DaddyTorgo for me to consider perhaps. My instincts still tell me he is ok though, but I guess I am starting to wonder if he had some other ability such as the role of Fagin.

[st.cronin]

Thanks for the kind words, everybody. I haven't really read any of the thread since this morning, but I'm not planning on doing any traveling, and should have time to catch up tomorrow.

My father is in stable condition, at Duke University Hospital, scheduled for something called a "stent" which sounds fairly routine.

We have had not a traditional father-son relationship, and at times it has been quite difficult. Despite this, I am extremely fond of him, and can't imagine a world without him in it. This experience has been quite disorienting. He is young, and has essentially zero risk factors, so it's been a shock to everybody. I am going to press on with my life as best I can.

Again, thanks to everybody for ... well, for being here.

[Chief Rum]

Fueled by fear and anger over all the deaths last night, the mob seems more heavy-handed and suspicious tonight.

Once again, names are thrown out and accusations fly. The littlest difference in word choice and tone moves you from safe in your flat to on the gallows and vice versa.

But there is more consensus today. As the deadline approaches, you are near frothing at the mouth. And the name on your lips is...Lathum!

He bitterly protests his innocence. He points out how he was in an area of Whitechapel that had very little going on. But he can tell mob rule has taken over.

As the sun starts to set, the mob reaches for Lathum to pull him over to the nearest lamppost. But as they reach him, a look in his eye backs them off for a moment.

At this moment, most would feel fear or perhaps anger. But Lathum is utterly calm. Too calm, and too cold. Very little emotion now at all. It is eery.

But the mob gets over this moment and pushes on. They grab Lathum and drag him over to the front of the Bumbrady Inn. He resists little, almost seeming lax.

And that is where the mob makes a grave error. In their haste, they do not search Lathum as well as the should.

For one second, he flashes a sardonic smile, as he is pulled toward the noose. The next second his right hand slashes out, a glint of metal flashing in the dying sunlight. His arm moves in a smooth arc toward his captors, but they are much too surprised to move an inch. Lathum's hand sweeps across the throat of the man to his right, and then he turns to his left.

ntndeacon chokes for a half a second, before stumbling to the ground. Blood is pouring out of his throat, his jugular cut.

The mob jumps on Lathum before he can attack again. Every cutting weapon known to man finds its way into that crowd. Lathum is dead well before they stop stabbing at him, and he is barely recognizable as human anymore.

But some would reason he was never human in the first place. You have killed Jack The Ripper!

But at what cost? ntndeacon quivers one last time, and then he is dead as well. The exhilaration of catching Jack The Ripper overwhelms the crowd, and ntndeacon is but an afterthought.

But a search of his clothes soon reveals how great a loss it was. In his pocket, ntndeacon carried a Scotland Yard badge with the engraved name "Inspector G. Lestrade". A powerful enemy of evil has fallen today.

And evil is not gone from Whitechapel, even if Jack The Ripper is dead. The mob will resume its lynches once again tomorrow--with or without Scotland Yard.

It looks to be a clear night tonight, although the fog may roll in, as it tends to do.

[b]DAY TWO IS OVER. NIGHT TWO HAS BEGUN. NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE BY 7 A.M. EST/4 A.M. PDT THURSDAY.

[Alan T]

I wish you and your father the best Cronin.

[Alan T]

Hmm.. well good we got Lathum. Ashame to lose ntndeacon there, I'm not sure what role ntndeacon had as the inspector, but guess I hope its not a super power role.

Either way I'll take killing one of the big three.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaargh. that's a mixed bag. we took out Jack which has to make us feel good, but losing Lestrade hurts!

i can't decide how i should be feeling

[LoneStarGirl]

So that is why Lathum was so damned pissy. We are lucky as hell. Good find path and Blade (i think it was you two) Sucks about ntndeacon.

Who do you think lathum killed last night? I dont think he killed anybody luckily

[path12]

Thanks for the kind words, everybody. I haven't really read any of the thread since this morning, but I'm not planning on doing any traveling, and should have time to catch up tomorrow.

My father is in stable condition, at Duke University Hospital, scheduled for something called a "stent" which sounds fairly routine.

We have had not a traditional father-son relationship, and at times it has been quite difficult. Despite this, I am extremely fond of him, and can't imagine a world without him in it. This experience has been quite disorienting. He is young, and has essentially zero risk factors, so it's been a shock to everybody. I am going to press on with my life as best I can.

Again, thanks to everybody for ... well, for being here.

I had two stents put in about 9 years ago. It's basically an angioplasty, I was back at work in less than a week and haven't had a single issue since, so with no risk factors he should have an excellent chance to be good as new. Best of luck to you both.

[dubb93]

YES!!!! Nice play today Hoops. You pretty well single handily nailed Jack the Ripper.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well Goldeneagle has been whining for the computer since 9 so I need to head off. Ill be on during my off period tomorrow to see what i can contribute...

[LoneStarGirl]

So that is why Lathum was so damned pissy. We are lucky as hell. Good find path and Blade (i think it was you two) Sucks about ntndeacon.

Who do you think lathum killed last night? I dont think he killed anybody luckily

Sorry, add Hoops to the list of people who pushed towards lathum's killing

[hoopsguy]

Yep, wasn't looking for a tradeoff here but glad to take Jack out of the game.

Cronin, there are few things in life that make me more emotional than hearing about someone losing their father, or facing a situation where this seems like a very real possibility. I'll be hoping for the best for both of you in the coming days and I'm very glad to hear that the prognosis, for now, seems relatively optimistic.

[Swaggs]

Nice writeup!

I guess the prostitutes of London can now rest easy. :)

[hoopsguy]

YES!!!! Nice play today Hoops. You pretty well single handily nailed Jack the Ripper.

Truth be told, it was kind of lucky. Lathum wasn't the one killing Tyrith, as we speculated earlier. He was off killing someone else. But I'll take it.

[path12]

Woot! Good job all! My thought is that Lestrade was a seer looking for Moriarty, so even though it's a loss it might not be gigantic.

[Tyrith]

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your father, cronin.

[Raiders Army]

Damn. That sucks we lost ntndeacon. RIP buddy.

[Raiders Army]

Ummmm...I think it's fairly obvious right now that Lathum killed Fouts in Whitechapel, Moriarty (or maybe Fagin) killed Brian D in Whitechapel, and the werewolf killed Tyrith in Commercial.

I have a pretty good trust list going right now, but I'll share in the morning (if I'm still alive).

[Mr. Wednesday]

RA, we've pretty much concluded that Mr. Hyde killed Fouts.

With Jack dead, do we lose anything by outing the working women?

[Raiders Army]

Then, do you think that Lathum killed Brian D then? Must've missed the Mr. Hyde posts.

[Mr. Wednesday]

That's a great job on the lynch, although also a great job by Lathum on the retaliatory strike.

[hoopsguy]

MrW, I would consider it less of a risk but still an individual decision. I know who three of them are and have suspicions on another one but would prefer to let them announce for themselves if they are so inclined.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Right now, we have the werewolf killing Tyrith, persons unknown (probably Moriarty/crew or Fagin and I'd lean to the former) killing BrianD, and Mr. Hyde killing Fouts.

I think Jack was on the prowl for working women last night. Dunno if his reason for not killing them was as stated, or something else.

[Mr. Wednesday]

hoops, fair enough. I saw two while I was out in the district last night, but I will only confirm if one of them posts it first.

[Lathum]

I'm not upset I got lynched but the reason why but I will save it for after the game so I don't influence any gameplay.

Thanks for running the game CR and good luck to Cronin's pop.

[Raiders Army]

Right now, we have the werewolf killing Tyrith, persons unknown (probably Moriarty/crew or Fagin and I'd lean to the former) killing BrianD, and Mr. Hyde killing Fouts.

I think Jack was on the prowl for working women last night. Dunno if his reason for not killing them was as stated, or something else.

Ah, things are making sense now. More to follow tomorrow morning. Night.

[Raiders Army]

I mean good night.

[Barkeep49]

I am a prosittute. I know there were 4 to start and I know of 2 others. I think now that Jack is dead it makes sense for us to reveal.

I'm sad that both path and bullet had to reveal to save me. The whole idea behind saying mum was not to make them both targets (besides me). I can verify that as of Night 1 bullet was 100% innocent. All I know about path is where he lives, though I'm glad to hear that he could vouch for my innocence as well.

[path12]

I'm glad now that I never revealed where I live.

[Barkeep49]

I'm glad now that I never revealed where I live.
Why?

[DaddyTorgo]

Why?


cuz are you going to be one busy busy prostitute I think. Lines around the block anyone? :D

[ntndeacon]

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this. I know that I do not have the ability to declare that I'm going to find a specific person - instead I can declare what district to visit. Do other people have the ability to specify a person instead of a zone with their actions? Or is this just an attempt to get me to admit to a role that I may or may not have?

Didn't Blade say he could get an urchin to follow someone in a few days. Do you think he is the only one who will be able to follow someone? Someone probably has or will have the opportunity to follow someone.

[hoopsguy]

Um, NTN?

Wait for it ...


Wait for it ...


You are dead :(

[ntndeacon]

well Iguess Ishould read everything before ipost. sorry for that bit of info. It has been a fun game. Stupid Jack killing me like that!. Good luck to the forces of Good!

[bulletsponge]

:D :p :( :) ;) :o
I want cool smilies like bullet

http://www.smileyhut.com/excited/kicking.gif http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/apple.gif

yea theyre pretty sweet.

and good catch on the Ripper. who was it that sniffed out his slip up again?

[bulletsponge]

Dola

heres Lathumhttp://www.smileyhut.com/weapons/giljotiini.gif

[path12]

Why?

Because I'm thinking that there might need to be location specificity to rob someone who is staying home for instance. Or if being home has any bearing at all on an attack.

Tyrith was killed at home, right? Did he say where he lived?

[Blade6119]

I just lost my best ally...im glad we got lathum, but losing NTN was a blow to both our side and my personal game agenda.

[Blade6119]

I should explain by saying i expected to be scanned soon after revealing most of my role. His death puts a major dent in me getting scanned and allowing him to clear me if need be..hence why i lost my best ally. I am not the chief inspector, so please don think i was hinting there as i know where that leads

[Blade6119]

So that is why Lathum was so damned pissy. We are lucky as hell. Good find path and Blade (i think it was you two) Sucks about ntndeacon.

Who do you think lathum killed last night? I dont think he killed anybody luckily

It was hoops who did most of the work, i just gave him some confidence.. when we were the only 2 on lathum for a little while, and i had to leave, hoops kept the heat on

As for lathum, i dont think he killed anyone. I do think he would have tonight though.

[Fouts]

Ummmm...I think it's fairly obvious right now that Lathum killed Fouts in Whitechapel, Moriarty (or maybe Fagin) killed Brian D in Whitechapel, and the werewolf killed Tyrith in Commercial.

I have a pretty good trust list going right now, but I'll share in the morning (if I'm still alive).

Grrr :mad: @ Lathum

[DaddyTorgo]

ok I'm about to head off to bed and I'm going to try to make the ultimate WW-sacrifice and wake up early before work tomorrow to see if anything has gone on before noon EST. And if not then I'll hopefully be checking in from work on my break in the late afternoon and asking whoever is on for a quick summary of the day's events as scrolling on the little tiny screen of my phone is a pain. I guess I am tentatively planning on voting then, although please note Chief Rum that I have been unable to get my phone's browser to let me bold my vote. Barring that of course, I should be home ~9:45 or so EST so I could change my vote last-minute if necessary.

Friday I'm afraid will be more of the same, as will Saturday (although Saturday I get out an hour earlier).

[Chief Rum]

Time check

[Chief Rum]

Deadline. Results being tabulated shortly.

[saldana]

Right now, we have the werewolf killing Tyrith, persons unknown (probably Moriarty/crew or Fagin and I'd lean to the former) killing BrianD, and Mr. Hyde killing Fouts.

I think Jack was on the prowl for working women last night. Dunno if his reason for not killing them was as stated, or something else.

i dont think lathum killed anyone....i would guess that he could only kill hookers, so unless he knew who one was and specifically targeted them, he would come up empty for the night...i.e, if he put in an order to kill me, he would have gotten nothing done, since i am not a hooker.

[saldana]

dola, awesome that we nailed lathu...i was pretty sure he was evil as soon as he did his little indignant anger routine...he always does that when he gets lynched as a bad guy

great work hoops and blade.

bummer that we lost lestrade, especially before we found out exactly what he could do and if he had any information that could help us.

[Chief Rum]

The partying starts almost immediately after the death of Jack The Ripper and goes on well into the night.

Say what you will about the criminal element in Whitechapel, but they do know how to have a good time.

For most, though, they eventually tire of this, because they know there are still killers out there, and more lynching decisions to be made. Will someone die tonight?

There may be little police presence in the district (especially now that Lestrade is dead), but there is a little. The Chief of Inspectors, holing up in the constabulary, orders the arrest of Izulde on suspicion of murder!. The constables pick up Izulde and take him to the small jail in Whitechapel, where he will sit in one of its two cells.

Alas, whatever one may think of Izulde, there are still killers in Whitechapel. In the dead of night, almost morning, a horrifying scream once again pitches into the air from Whitechapel Road. People come rushing from all around to see if another resident has bit the dust.

And they are right. SnDvls lies mangled in an alley near her corner for the night. This is more than a john gone bad. She is torn apart, and blood is everywhere. Is Jack The Ripper still alive or come from the dead?

No, this manner of death is different. But there is one less whore in Whitechapel tonight.

NIGHT TWO ENDS. DAY THREE BEGINS. INDIVIDUAL PMs GOING OUT SHORTLY.

THERE ARE 16 REMAINING ELIGIBLE VOTERS, SO 5 VOTES MINIMUM ARE NEEDED TO HANG SOMEONE.

INSTRUCTIONS ON IZULDE TO FOLLOW.

[Chief Rum]

There are two lynching decisions to be made.

You have the normal one, and you also may decide what to do with Izulde.

The Chief of Inspectors has arrested Izulde on suspicion of murder. The murders suspected are not listed.

The public has the right to decide Izulde's fate today. You may choose to LYNCH IZULDE or NO LYNCH IZULDE.

Simple majority wins. If there is a tie, he won't hang.

So you may have two players swing from lamp posts today, if you wish.

Voting in the other lynch will go as normal. Izulde, being in jail, does not have a vote in either lynch.

[Lorena]

NO LYNCH IZULDE

Easiest decision I've made thus far.

[Raiders Army]

RIP SnDvls. You were in my circle of trust.

I have a theory why Lathum didn't get a kill on Night 1. He didn't kill because he was targeting hoops. hoops was in the Cavell district that night and Lathum was following him. At that point, Sherlock Holmes and Watson (I believe I know who you are) came up on him and chased him away. They interrogated ntndeacon instead.

The questions I'm wondering right now are:

Is Izulde evil? Remember when they're in jail they have no night or day actions, so is it a coincindence that there was only one kill last night? There is also the possibility that Hyde/WW/etc. can't make a kill every night.

Who killed SnDvls? I would guess Hyde or the WW from the description.

[Raiders Army]

NO LYNCH IZULDE

Easiest decision I've made thus far.

How is that an easy decision?

[Raiders Army]

Yeah, I'm staying away from Whitechapel since it seems as if that's where Hyde is hunting.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts trusted Izulde on Day 1 and Fouts is cleared as a Londoner upon his death. So I have leaned towards trusting Izulde since that time, although I have not had any night information revealed on him yet.

[Lorena]

How is that an easy decision?

Because she's a prostitute. She was the lady of the night that pleasured me on Night 1, so unless there was some sort of conversion from then until now, I'm going under the assumption that she's good.

[Barkeep49]

Well that clears it pretty much for me.

No Lynch Izilude

[Raiders Army]

Ah. This makes sense then.

NO LYNCH IZULDE

[Raiders Army]

With a shrinking list of suspects and having to go for the day until about 7 EST, I'll throw my vote out there:

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

I'll be on for a few more minutes before I have to get ready for work.

[hoopsguy]

DodgerChick, did you learn anything else about Izulde as part of the prostitute/john relationship? That seems to be pretty standard in those transactions ...

NO LYNCH IZULDE

[Barkeep49]

I was one busy ho last night.

[Alan T]

I went looking for a prostitute last night, since I figured i was the only one who hadn't by now. I haven't gotten my PM yet from last night though, so if I visited you, i don't know it yet :) (guess you wern't good enough for me to remember!)

I'm leaning to No lynch izulde, was an interesting jailing considering i had the same take as hoops in somewhat trusting him since fouts backing him early on. (I had pushed for a lynch earlier on him because of how he was behaving, but fouts caused me to reconsider).

As for thoughts on others, i'll just wait till I find out what i find out.

[hoopsguy]

I saw more people out and about last night, a couple of who I already felt like I had good beads on. I'm going to be very interested to see what one player in particular learned last night, based on interaction I witnessed.

[Barkeep49]

hoops as I saw you (in addition to several others), are you referring to me in terms of what was learned or somebody else?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I can confirm DC's observation of Izulde, and recall that someone (Tyrith, I think) said much the same thing on day 1.

NO LYNCH Izulde

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, I saw Izulde working both nights (was watching as "she" was arrested), but was not a customer.

[hoopsguy]

BK, you are not the one I was interested in hearing from - unless you have something especially juicy to share. Instead you were one of the people I felt like I knew about already, since I saw you on Night 0 as well.

If you weren't pretty darn sure who I was referring to it sounds like we got different info about other people in our district.

[Barkeep49]

Sounds very possible as we seemed to have floated in and out of the district at different times.

[Raiders Army]

Well, I'm out for the day. Good luck everyone. Right now my circle of trust includes:

hoops
Blade
Barkeep
st. cronin
DC
Izulde
Mr. Wednesday

I think I'm beginning to get a good feel for some of the others in the game as well, but I think the above are pretty solid.

[Barkeep49]

Raiders if you trust me than you should also trust bulletsponge.

[Mr. Wednesday]

DT was Izulde's John at the time "she" was arrested. I saw DC, bulletsponge, and dubb were also in Cavell at that time, as they were amongst the onlookers. I later saw dubb and bulletsponge in Bishopsgate.

In addition to confirmation of the business of one person I suspected, I also have reason to have absolute trust in two other persons and a great deal of trust in a third, but I think it's best if I don't say who they are.

[Lathum]

http://www.smileyhut.com/excited/kicking.gif http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/apple.gif

yea theyre pretty sweet.

and good catch on the Ripper. who was it that sniffed out his slip up again?

ARGHHHHH, i didn't slip up....

[hoopsguy]

This is going to become a recurring theme in future games, I think.

On a related note, congratulations to Saldana for making it to Day 3!

[SnDvls]

well I didn't last past night 2 for the 3rd straight game

good luck villagers and my fellow women of the night ;)

[Alan T]

I got my PM finally. I learned that I had pretty good reads on two people prior to today. I am glad I spent the money for recreation last night. I'm still worried about conversions, but I have a nice long list of people who I feel good about.

NO Lynch Izulde

I was going to vote again for DaddyTorgo, but saw Mr.W's comment about him. I'll hang out on deciding who to go for today, but right now I am leaning to voting for someone in a list of:

3. Schmidty
7. saldana
13. st. cronin
22. Swaggs

Just to note, anyone not on this list isn't necessarily trusted by me just yet, but I'm still trying to work out some pieces of their stories and not ready to lynch them just yet.

I guess I am wondering if anyone at all can vouch for these 4. I don't need what jobs they might be or how you can vouch for them.. just need to know that people who I trust or somewhat trust can vouch for them.

(I also notice I must have a thing against people with S names.)

Today will be just like yesterday for me.. mostly busy and popping in when I can.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, after last night I feel significantly better about one of the guys on that list but I would prefer that one of two other people come out with information to help solidify this for me.

Two of them were in my district, and they interacted last night.

If information is slow coming out I'll reveal what I know, but I expect the involved parties can shed more details on it than I could by observing from a distance.

[Alan T]

Alan, after last night I feel significantly better about one of the guys on that list but I would prefer that one of two other people come out with information to help solidify this for me.

Two of them were in my district, and they interacted last night.

If information is slow coming out I'll reveal what I know, but I expect the involved parties can shed more details on it than I could by observing from a distance.


Thats fine with me, I just know the least about these 4 and as far as I know they have had very little backing by anyone. St.Cronin is the best on this list for me as he did show up to help Mr.W when Lathum didn't, but thats not a proof of innocence by itself.

I haven't seen anything from anyone really for Schmidty or Saldana. I havent seen anyone vouch for Swaggs either, however he did know about Bullet and Barkeep from the previous night.

I mainly want to try to narrow down where a wolf might be without accidentally outing an important good guy role. So I'm not pushing for total reveals, just want to know if I can remove any of these people from my list for today.

If I had to choose right now, I'd likely vote for Schmidty who didn't respond to my question of him yesterday and is being his normally tough to read self.

[st.cronin]

True or false: We don't know who the chief inspector is?

[st.cronin]

Alan T, I realize you don't trust me, but Schmidty and Saldana are both near the top of my trust list. Also, ntn has been shown to be good, as I am, and Lathum shown to be bad, so I am going to assume that Blade is good (since he responded the same way ntn and I did, plus he was helpful in finding Lathum).

[st.cronin]

double dola

That makes my trust list

hoopsguy
Barkeep
Blade
Schmidty
saldana

Although I'm not 100% on any of those.

Not sure about Izulde and dodgerchick. It would be useful to have a case made against Izulde, but if the inspector wants to stay hidden, that's certainly understandable.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin's vouch for Schmidty means that I'll look elsewhere for my suspects today.

If you trust both Alan and Cronin, then Swaggs is the remaining name from Alan's list. That might be a good starting point for today. Has anyone seen anything from him over the last three nights, or in his posts, that inspires confidence?

[Alan T]

Cronin's vouch for Schmidty means that I'll look elsewhere for my suspects today.

If you trust both Alan and Cronin, then Swaggs is the remaining name from Alan's list. That might be a good starting point for today. Has anyone seen anything from him over the last three nights, or in his posts, that inspires confidence?

Just to clarify, there are alot of people on my list of not-named people who I don't necessarily trust, but they dropped hints close enough for me to wait and see if they get anyone backing them. I could probably come up with a list of highly trusted, medium trust and low trust if needed.. but for now was mainly focusing on those I knew the least of.

I collected all the posts from Swaggs that I could find for review. He is claiming the same role as me, so lets have fun trying to pick it apart.

Checking in real quick.

I will be really limited tomorrow with work, but should be able to participate more after that.

Sorry guys, but I'm just on here for just a bit today.

Random vote:

Vote Fouts


This is his day 1 activity. Nothing helpful, random vote.

I would say that all of us who have the option to visit the opium dealer know exactly what could result from it... and no one should say what that is or give a whole lot of info on it just yet.

This was after the interplay between myself and Cronin where I hinted about the opium dealer, then Dubb came out and talked about it. Swaggs quickly jumps on the opium dealer bandwagon without giving any further info or anything to clear him.

It sounds, by the description given, like Jekyl/Hyde got Fouts.

Perhaps the werewolf got Tyrith?

I wonder if JTR might need to identify the prositutes before killing them, as it doesn't sound like he got anyone last night.

I'm actually thinking it could be Swaggs who killed Tyrith, I wonder if he was being helpful here with a kill he already knew about. I'll give my reasoning for that in his next quote.

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

Here is more of Swaggs with the opium theme. He says he saw them in his opium-induced dream. I dont know about anyone else, but I haven't learned sqwat from the opium dealer, much less seen someone else's actions. Has anyone else gotten lucky with the opium dealer, or only swaggs so far? I am wondering if perhaps Swaggs actually was nearby in person and witnessed this, using the opium dream as an excuse for having that knowledge and gaining trust.

Back and catching up....

In my dream, I saw them exchange money and Barkeep lead him away, into a room.

More info on Swaggs's dream about barkeep and bullet. Once again I havent had anything nearly this clear from a dream..

I can only decide which area of the district to visit.

I originally didn't catch this since I wasn't around for this, and read 100-150 posts catching up when I got home. Swaggs's story is more correct than Lathum's was as far as you don't follow a prosititute or look for a prostitute, but Swaggs wasn't exactly correct either.. You don't necessarily pick A district to visit. Its really close and I'm playing semantics here, but if he is legit, he will know the real answer here.

Well, I have caught up. I like that I am seeing a few people drop some specific details into the conversation, as I feel like certain items are far too similar to my own to be ignored.

Unfortunately for him, I think Lathum claiming the ability to seek out a particular person, rather than an area, is too inconsistent to my own information, and what I have leared of others, so I'm going to go with him.

Vote Lathum

For it only being day 2, I feel pretty decent about the evidence available in making this vote.


I don't really have great proof against Swaggs, but I'm willing to play this along a little further to see exactly how honest Swaggs has been with us.

Vote Swaggs

Things that can make me change my opinion perhaps:

1) Can any prostitute verify that Swaggs has come to visit them?
2) Swaggs can you give the full method of locating a prostitute for a night. (obviously without quoting your PM, but you should be able to get closer than saying you choose which part of the district).

I'm also willing to switch to others if people have a better candidate. I just want to get some discussion going as its been pretty slow this morning so far. Swaggs I guess seems like the best choice to run with right now, and has been super under the radar.

[LoneStarGirl]

RAiders Army, what is your reasoning for voting for me?

no lynch izulde

My question is, how did izulde get arrested? Who arrested him and why?

[DaddyTorgo]

RAiders Army, what is your reasoning for voting for me?

no lynch izulde

My question is, how did izulde get arrested? Who arrested him and why?

just got up and saw LSG's post. havn't read the rest of the actions of the night, but i can tell you why izulde got arrested. i was there. Mr. Weds. and dubb and dodgerchick saw me (although I dunno how much of what went down they can confirm). Without quoting my PM...I was going to visit izulde because he's just such an attractive lady and I was hoping he could de-virginize me. unfortunately the cops got there first and they're not a fan of the free market economy.

[DaddyTorgo]

izulde for murder? bah. They're clearly just anti-capitalism.

NO LYNCH IZULDE

I still want my ride you sexy thang!

[Alan T]

I'm working my way back through my notes and think I might be wrong on Swaggs. He might be ok too. I have been reading backwards from page 18, and am on page 12.. I'll put together some more thoughts in a bit. There are a few people who have no one vouching for them so far though. I'll put together my list for everyone in the next hour or two as work allows.

[DaddyTorgo]

i want to point out, i just re-read my PM for the night action with clearer eyes and it doesn't say WHY izulde was arrested, just that he was and we were all shooed away. so without reading the writeup i had no idea it was murder.

[Barkeep49]

Gone until later today. Will be around during lynch though.

[Alan T]

I have questions for the prostitutes. I have heard some times they find out someone is "good" but I have heard other times they didn't find that info out. Is it a -normal- thing to find out your visitor is good? Should it be suspect if someone comes to you and you don't find that info out?

[DaddyTorgo]

what about RA? has he been cleared? i know that suspect list of yours is shrinking alan so i thought i'd toss another name out there that maybe had slid UTR...

[DaddyTorgo]

ok...i guess i gotta leave for work in like 30 minutes, so i'm out. will be back prolly ~5:30 or 6 looking for a down-n-dirty recap so i can put in a vote that will stand until ~10 mins to lynch.

talk about your crappy work schedule for playing WW!

[Alan T]

what about RA? has he been cleared? i know that suspect list of yours is shrinking alan so i thought i'd toss another name out there that maybe had slid UTR...

He is someone jumping out at me right now for sure. I'm still working on my list. back to page 9. Probably will be another hour or 2 before I post my full thoughts depending on work.

[DaddyTorgo]

He is someone jumping out at me right now for sure. I'm still working on my list. back to page 9. Probably will be another hour or 2 before I post my full thoughts depending on work.

wow. makes me wish i had a job where i could do that sort of stuff, instead of this junk i'm doing now. i really do need to get my ass into grad school so i can get a "real job."

well i'll be off to the store now. adios!

[Lorena]

I have a little bit of catching up to do, but that Izulde gets around different areas :)

Night 1 we had a good time in Bishopsgate, Night 2, I went looking for him at Cavell, but he chooses DaddyTorgo instead... curse you Daddy! ;)

I witness Izulde getting jailed along with dubb, bulletsponge and Mr. W.

I go elsewhere to hire another but come back empty handed. Oh well... at least I still have my money.

[Lorena]

DodgerChick, did you learn anything else about Izulde as part of the prostitute/john relationship? That seems to be pretty standard in those transactions ...

NO LYNCH IZULDE

Izulde was the one that told me about seeing Mr. W going through Bishopsgate, but that's all (this was Night 1 btw). No interaction with her on Night 2, she was taken to jail without a fight.

[saldana]

first,

vote no lynch Izulde

second,

Alan, i cant say i am surprised i am on your list, as i havent been vouched for, but i would have hoped for a little slack from you seeing as how you asked me to recheck day ones posts after i said i was suspicious of you, and then totally laid off after seeing what i was supposed to see, but admittedly missed at the time.


third

apparently my prediction of diminishing body counts was pretty accurate...looks like whatever bad guy roles there are blew their wad on night 1, which should give us some time to root them out

[Alan T]

first,

vote no lynch Izulde

second,

Alan, i cant say i am surprised i am on your list, as i havent been vouched for, but i would have hoped for a little slack from you seeing as how you asked me to recheck day ones posts after i said i was suspicious of you, and then totally laid off after seeing what i was supposed to see, but admittedly missed at the time.


third

apparently my prediction of diminishing body counts was pretty accurate...looks like whatever bad guy roles there are blew their wad on night 1, which should give us some time to root them out

Just so you know, In my own going back and catching up, I did find a few things you said that makes me feel better about you. I'm almost done with my list I am putting together, but I did catch a few things you said before anyone else that helped your cause with me.

[saldana]

Just so you know, In my own going back and catching up, I did find a few things you said that makes me feel better about you. I'm almost done with my list I am putting together, but I did catch a few things you said before anyone else that helped your cause with me.

i was trying to be subtle-like :D

[st.cronin]

Is NOBODY prepared to make a case against Izulde?

[saldana]

Is NOBODY prepared to make a case against Izulde?

there doesnt appear to be any case to make....Dodgerchick bought Izulde's services on night one, so unless they are both bad guys and one is covering for the other, its pretty much a pretty solid choice to let him out

although as i was typing that, the possibility that both of them are bad did actually raise a bit of a bell....can anyone BESIDES dodgerchick vouch for Izulde, or can any of the other ho's vouch for DC being a john?

[saldana]

dola, i answered my own question....mr wednesday said he saw izulde out selling her wares on both nights, so i dont know what case there is to be made, cronin.

[st.cronin]

What puzzles me is why would the inspector lock him up, if there was no case to be made. There were other guys who seemed more suspicious to me.

Remember, Izulde was on the block on day 1, I believe, and then somebody (forget who) vouched for him, and the heat faded. So why did the inspector pick him?

It's just a puzzling sequence of events.

[st.cronin]

It was Fouts (bartender) who cleared Izulde. I think there may be more here than meets the eye. I suspect the inspector knows something that we do not know, that this was not a random grab. I am leaning heavily towards lynching Izulde, on the theory that the inspector knows something which we do not.

[path12]

Work is busy today so I'll be in and out. Only person I saw last night was hoops.

[Alan T]

Bear with me, this might be a little long. I tried to break people down a bit more. I found a few more holes in my thoughts on some people after reading through the entire thread...


Feel ok + vouches: (This section is for people who I caught things that I felt were good hints, plus vouched for by other people. Probably my most trusted group, however with possible conversions, trust is always relative)

1. Barkeep49 - visited by Bulletsponge (according to swaggs). Sndvls also backed Barkeep strongly when Izulde voted for him. It is pretty apparent Sndvls knew Barkeep's identity.

7. saldana - Cronin is backing Saldana and I caught a few other things that makes me feel a little better about him now.

20. Dodgerchick - visited Izulde, which Izulde confirmed. | maybe vouched for by sndvls in one of his discussions with Hoops and Blade where he didn't list Dodgerchick as one of the people who he would vote for.

--------------------------------
Feel ok , no vouches:

12. path12 - Barkeep knows where he lives but not if he is good. He has given the most early hints of specific normal villager roles of anyone, but can anyone vouch for him?

14. LoneStarGirl - First to mention the 3 shillings a day when DaddyTorgo mentioned he got 4 per day. maybe vouched for by sndvls in the same list as Dodgerchick.

17. dubb93 - first to mention opium den from my hints , I feel pretty good about him. He backed Hoops early on, but no one has vouched for Dubb. Hoops is his backing of you recipricol, do you vouch for him too?

19. hoopsguy - Has dropped many solid hints and with Mr.W helped give us Jack the Ripper yesterday.
------------------------------------
No feel + other's vouches:

2. DaddyTorgo - visited Izulde (according to Mr.W), only he and Blade have seperate money earning conditions from other "normal" roles.

3. Schmidty - Cronin is vouching for Schmidty, but it seemed odd to me that he didn't know the point of money in the game, where almost everyone else deals with it daily.

5. bulletsponge - visited barkeep (according to Swaggs) , Barkeep and he both confirm this. My main hesitation with Bullet is he hasn't given too many good hints about his role and he voted for fouts after the 5 shilling comment, which with his supposed role, I would think would make him not want to vote for him. Maybe it was just a retaliation vote, but thats silly to make to someone you think is good for just that reason.

13. st. cronin - maybe vouched for by sndvls in his previous list | showed up to help Mr.W when Lathum didn't, plus Mr.W feels pretty good about him.

24. Izulde - (mr.Wednesday, Dodgerchick, Fouts all vouched for him. ) Visited by DaddyTorgo (according to Mr.W). I don't have a good feel for him at all, but has more people vouching for him than any other player in the game.

Others: (These are the people who I have my weirdest thoughts about)

4. Blade6119 - He claims he has a ominus role title with a possibly WW sounding name but claimed to be good. Some negatives are that his urchins were obviously very wrong about barkeep, he makes a different amount of money from other "normal roles". Was inexplicably out the night after spending all of his money. The goods for him: showed up to help Mr.W. when Lathum didn't, and Mr.W and Saldana both feel good about him. THis probably will start all kinds of drama.. but the thought I have been playing with for a bit now is that Blade is Faigin. He trumped everyone's orphan bid yet still was out that night. He didn't jump on the opium den or prostitute threads early, but was first to buy an orphan.

15. MrWednesday - He seems to be where all of the action is. Has vouched for many people, but hasn't had any vouch for him. Refused to state his role when pressed and on the line to be lynched. My gut instinct is that he is good though, and I don't really have any desire to press further to lynching him right now.

21. Raiders Army - tends to trust hoops, blade, barkeep, any of you three have trust back for him or care to vouch for him? I looked back to try to find out why I had him in my feels ok group from early on. I couldn't honestly find what made me feel that way. I found he came out early on right after the roles went out and said a comment about getting 20 gold pieces to hire a prostitute with... the only problem is we all got shillings, not gold pieces.

22. Swaggs - I know the least about Swaggs of anyone in the game, thus my vote for him this morning. Looking back however, Sndvls had him in the group of people who he didn't want to vote for that day. Its very risky to assume interpretation of dead people's posts, but I'm not sure if this means Swaggs visited Sndvls or not. The mistakes Swaggs made might have just been due to haste and lack of participation instead of shadiness. Can anyone else vouch for swaggs other than possibly a dead person?

[dubb93]

Yea I saw the whole thing. I can confirm that Izulde is a "whore" as it says that exactly in what I saw. Izulde was arrested. I was out looking for a prostitute in Cavell and Bishopsgate last night. I found Izulde, but her arrest soured me on looking further and once I returned to Bishopsgate I didn't really bother looking anymore.

VOTE NO LYNCH IZULDE

[Alan T]

Unvote Swaggs

Vote Raiders Army

I think this is the approach I would rather take today. i would love to know if anyone can vouch for either swaggs or Raiders.. so far I don't have much.

As for Izulde, he has alot of people vouching for him including one person who is dead and known good. I also don't obviously know what the inspector might know or assume about him though.. If he started as a prostitute then his being bad now would mean he would have been converted.

I don't know if I'm really in the mood to look for converted people yet when we still have original bad guys in a possible small group of people to choose from.

I guess if the inspector knows something I dont about Izulde, I will leave it up to him to decide if its worth outing himself to say what it is. As it is now, I don't see why I would want to lynch Izulde though.

[st.cronin]

AlanT, I don't understand from that post why you feel good about path. I mean, I don't have any read on him at all, so where does yours come from?

[st.cronin]

I would expect that if Izulde was, in fact, good, that there would be at least some pressure from the bad guys to get him lynched. That there is zero pressure really worries me.

[Alan T]

AlanT, I don't understand from that post why you feel good about path. I mean, I don't have any read on him at all, so where does yours come from?

He's given a ton of info about the same role many of us have before anyone else has. He either is good like us, or he is bad with the same role.

THe only thing keeping him from my higher trust group is that no one has vouched for him yet. He actually is the specific person that caused me to ask the question of the prostitutes earlier asking if they typically find out if their john is good or not from the visit. Barkeep was unable to tell that about path, whereas he was about others. This troubles me some.. but I still think Raiders is a better choice since just like Path he has no vouches, but he has provided much less to make me confident about him.

As for Izulde, I don't see why the bad guys would push for his lynch without any evidence to lean on. Usually bad guys let the good guys do the work for them. I would find someone just jumping out and voting to lynch Izulde without any reason would be pretty suspicious.

[st.cronin]

He's given a ton of info about the same role many of us have before anyone else has. He either is good like us, or he is bad with the same role.

THe only thing keeping him from my higher trust group is that no one has vouched for him yet. He actually is the specific person that caused me to ask the question of the prostitutes earlier asking if they typically find out if their john is good or not from the visit. Barkeep was unable to tell that about path, whereas he was about others. This troubles me some.. but I still think Raiders is a better choice since just like Path he has no vouches, but he has provided much less to make me confident about him.

As for Izulde, I don't see why the bad guys would push for his lynch without any evidence to lean on. Usually bad guys let the good guys do the work for them. I would find someone just jumping out and voting to lynch Izulde without any reason would be pretty suspicious.

I realize I make a better villager than wolf, but when I've been a wolf in these situations it's all about making sure that guy gets lynched. See the Tombstone game, for example.

That I am the only one wondering if it's a good idea to lynch Izulde has my radar pinging hard.

[Lorena]

Don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in this whole Izulde thing, but I find it very convenient that he has ZERO lynches. I mean it's so easy it doesn't make sense. Cronin, do you know something maybe some of us don't?

Just thinking aloud I guess.

[Tyrith]

Alan, buying orphans is wrong! You're supposed to rent!

[Lorena]

lol, just noticed your post cronin

[path12]

He's given a ton of info about the same role many of us have before anyone else has. He either is good like us, or he is bad with the same role.

THe only thing keeping him from my higher trust group is that no one has vouched for him yet. He actually is the specific person that caused me to ask the question of the prostitutes earlier asking if they typically find out if their john is good or not from the visit. Barkeep was unable to tell that about path, whereas he was about others. This troubles me some.. but I still think Raiders is a better choice since just like Path he has no vouches, but he has provided much less to make me confident about him.

As for Izulde, I don't see why the bad guys would push for his lynch without any evidence to lean on. Usually bad guys let the good guys do the work for them. I would find someone just jumping out and voting to lynch Izulde without any reason would be pretty suspicious.

It was too bad that Barkeep didn't get a read on me, hopefully the other prostitute I visited last night did. I'd also like to point out that I was part of the group that helped pick apart the discrepancies in Lathum's story, and was also the first person to vouch for Barkeep. I think all my actions this game have pretty clearly been in the interests of good.

I've been out each night: Night 0 lookin' for love in Commercial and Whitechapel. Night 1 at the opium den. Last night getting some in Cavell and Bishopsgate.

[st.cronin]

Don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in this whole Izulde thing, but I find it very convenient that he has ZERO lynches. I mean it's so easy it doesn't make sense. Cronin, do you know something maybe some of us don't?

Just thinking aloud I guess.

I do not, but I have a small suspicion that the chief inspector does.

Note: I am not the chief inspector. If I were, I would make the case for Izulde based on whatever logic led me to arrest him. But it wouldn't be totally surprising if the inspector didn't make a case, hoping the arrest would be enough.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I have not seen Dubb on any night up to this point. So I can't vouch for him. I do have him as someone I think is likely to be a normal villager - as I understand that role - based on his coming forward with information on the opium mechanic before it had been discussed. If his version of events didn't set off alarm bells for other "normals" then I lean towards trusting him.

Cronin, I've felt Path was likely to be good from pretty early on in the game - he and Brian commented early on Day 1 that the "5 shilling" fee for prostitutes was unlikely to be disputed. He seemed to be near the front of normal good guy information at just about every turn. And I can vouch for his district last night.

Others:
- no feel for RA
- I have Blade coupled with another player based on night activity. Alternate suggestion is that two different players have similar actions and both directed them at same target last night.

On Izulde, I knew the identities of three prostitutes. Barkeep says there are four. Izulde is one I did not know for sure, but Fouts said he was with a prostitute on Night 0 and cited a different district that the one I was in to collect my Night 0 information on three prostitutes. Fouts backed Izulde during the Day 1 vote. Chief has said that prostitutes start the game as good. Others have vouched for spending time with Izulde since then - I think this is pretty open and shut (insert punchline here).

[bulletsponge]

No Lynch Izulde

DC's vouch for him is good enough for now. although why did the CI jail him? and im betting Blade does have a big role in this game.

Note Raiders Army

hes hanging way too outta site. makes my suspisious

( yes i know i dont need to be told im out of site too)

[st.cronin]

Path, I'm curious what would happen if you DIDN'T go out, and just stayed home. Do you know?

[st.cronin]

vote Raiders Army
lynch Izulde

Following AlanT again on the RA bit, and I'm just too uneasy about the Izulde sequence to let it go.

[bulletsponge]

No Lynch Izulde

DC's vouch for him is good enough for now. although why did the CI jail him? and im betting Blade does have a big role in this game.

Note Raiders Army

hes hanging way too outta site. makes my suspisious

( yes i know i dont need to be told im out of site too)

dola

thats Vote Raiders Army

[hoopsguy]

I have good reason to believe Path's accounts for his Night 1 and Night 2 activities. Unless the bad guys can execute multiple actions during a night (opium + kill, hire prostitute + kill) he is accounted for on both nights that murders transpired.

[Alan T]

I realize I make a better villager than wolf, but when I've been a wolf in these situations it's all about making sure that guy gets lynched. See the Tombstone game, for example.

That I am the only one wondering if it's a good idea to lynch Izulde has my radar pinging hard.

I think thats fair. Remember I was the first one trying to get Izulde lynched the first time. I only backed off because someone who i felt was good (Fouts) backed him. My main point here is I just dont see whatever the Chief inspector saw. It would be quite a feat in my mind to see Izulde as bad other than possible conversion at this point.

[Alan T]

Path, I'm curious what would happen if you DIDN'T go out, and just stayed home. Do you know?

I know the answer to this as I did this one night. However for once, I'll let someone else answer before me. :)

[Lorena]

Well, in my case, I could have used an action on Night 0, but chose not to. I didn't receive a PM or anything... so it's like nothing happened.

[Lorena]

Crap, I just realized what time it was... I'll be off for a bit.

[path12]

Path, I'm curious what would happen if you DIDN'T go out, and just stayed home. Do you know?

As far as I know, I'd just stay home. I'll be doing that tonight because I spent all my money so I guess I'll find out for sure then.

[Alan T]

Since the board seems really slow today.. some other thoughts I was having...

In huge games with this many people, its really hard for the bad team to win in a "balanced" game due to so much activity and how easy it is to get information. You almost have to give the bad guys an unfair advantage in order to make it more balanced, or give them a shot to win.

I'm wondering where that is in this game. We saw the three kills in one night, but so far it was only a one night thing. It appears like they might not be in communications with each other due to the kills during night 1, but thats just a guess. That would make things even tougher for them.

They have to have some advantages somewhere.. Things crossing my mind, most of which I've mentioned before... Bad guy with the common londoner role so able to fit right in with the rest of us... Conversions (or multiple conversion attempts).. Good people with bad sounding roles (such as Jonathan) to cause us to waste days or time.. Good guys getting faulty information...

Right now its feeling way too easy to form CoTs.. there has to be some catch, right?

[path12]

Right now its feeling way too easy to form CoTs.. there has to be some catch, right?

I've been wondering the same thing the past couple days. I don't know that I have an answer though. I feel almost certain that there are bad guys who have the same abilities as Londoners.

[hoopsguy]

Have the people who visited the Opium Den learned the identity of a Den Dealer? I don't need to know who it is, just wondering if that role is in the game as I have not set foot there so far.

[Alan T]

Have the people who visited the Opium Den learned the identity of a Den Dealer? I don't need to know who it is, just wondering if that role is in the game as I have not set foot there so far.

My time in the opium den was nothing more than a waste of money. The only thing I learned while there is that Chief shares my thoughts to who the best baseball team of all time is.

[Alan T]

Dola, Hoops can you speak for if prostitutes typically find out if the people who visit them are good or not? iE: on a typical night do you find out so and so visited and are good, or is it more random?

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I've never acknowledged one way or another what my role is in the game. It sounds like you think I'm some kind of a woman of loose morals!

In terms of the prostitue role, the way I understand it the information that is revealed varies from customer to customer. For example, Barkeep learned that Bulletsponge was good. But the information can include other details, such as the home district or whereabouts on previous evenings.

I know of at least one case where there is a now-dead Londoner who did not show up as good/evil when visiting a prostitute. So the fact that faction information doesn't come out should not be taken as a sign of guilt.

[path12]

Have the people who visited the Opium Den learned the identity of a Den Dealer? I don't need to know who it is, just wondering if that role is in the game as I have not set foot there so far.


I got no useful information at all in my visit, nor any info of anyone working there or visiting at the time.

[Alan T]

Alan, I've never acknowledged one way or another what my role is in the game. It sounds like you think I'm some kind of a woman of loose morals!

In terms of the prostitue role, the way I understand it the information that is revealed varies from customer to customer. For example, Barkeep learned that Bulletsponge was good. But the information can include other details, such as the home district or whereabouts on previous evenings.

I know of at least one case where there is a now-dead Londoner who did not show up as good/evil when visiting a prostitute. So the fact that faction information doesn't come out should not be taken as a sign of guilt.

Yeah, I was working more off of assumptions. As far as I am aware, you and I have not had any interactions or dealings this game. The only people I am pretty sure are prostitutes are Barkeep and Izulde. I mainly was curious regarding Path. I feel pretty good that he is on the good side, the only troubling thing was barkeep's inability to say he was good for sure. I guess I'll have to wait till barkeep gets on later to confirm that.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, as far as I can tell Path has been with two prostitutes who have not been able to confirm that he is good. But unless he can commit multiple actions (opium + kill, prostitute + kill) he is accounted for on both Nights 1 and 2.

[Alan T]

That helps a bit more.. I am feeling better that Raiders is the best choice for today, as so far no one has come close to vouching for him. The now dead Sndvls was very clear that he didn't have any info on him. None of the alive prostitutes are coming to his defense either.

My big problem though is assuming Raiders is bad, what is the next step from there to the next candidate. I don't really have anyone that jumps out at me like Raiders does. The next closest is Swaggs, but I am 50/50 on him.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I'm not all that worried about next steps - we'll have another night of information to process. People will make more reveals, for better or worse. I just want to make the best play that we can for today.

I'm looking to see how 1-2 people who have yet to show up today, or post meaningful thoughts, play before putting my vote on the RA bandwagon. I'm fine voting in this direction, but I also do not have a sense of urgency about getting the vote in right this minute as the vote is based on lack of information more than it is anything individually damning.

[Alan T]

Alan, I'm not all that worried about next steps - we'll have another night of information to process. People will make more reveals, for better or worse. I just want to make the best play that we can for today.

I'm looking to see how 1-2 people who have yet to show up today, or post meaningful thoughts, play before putting my vote on the RA bandwagon. I'm fine voting in this direction, but I also do not have a sense of urgency about getting the vote in right this minute as the vote is based on lack of information more than it is anything individually damning.

Thats cool. Its just been 1/2 way through the day and I haven't seen much movement to point us elsewhere other than the brief talk about Izulde earlier. Yesterday we waited so long to talk about Lathum, that it actually happened after I had left for the day. Just hoping we can get something beneficial going one way or another before today passes us by too :)

Unlike last night, I should be around before lynch tonight, so can move my vote as needed. I just hate wasting the entire day without any good conversation :)

[hoopsguy]

OK, lets bat around a few names then if we are looking for conversation:

Barkeep, Izulde, ???? = prostitutes
Daddy - special role, with Izulde during arrest yesterday?
Schmidty - vouched for by Cronin
Blade - special role, looking for his version of last night's events at some point
Saldana - vouched for by Cronin, normal?
Path - normal? seems to have been occupied Nights 1 and 2
Cronin - special role, trusting him for now
LSG - ???
MrW - special role, would like to hear from him today as well
Dubb - normal?
Alan - normal?
Hoops - ???, had decent amount of info this game
DC - normal?
RA - ???, subject of current discussion and votes
Swaggs - normal?, less "conclusive" than some of others slated as normal

[hoopsguy]

I don't have Bullet listed above, but he was vouched for by BK.

My biggest question marks at the moment are Raiders, Swaggs, and LoneStarGirl. There are a couple of the "specials" that I would like to understand better but at the moment I'm actually more concerned with the people I can't assign any meaning to their role.

[Mr. Wednesday]

what about RA? has he been cleared? i know that suspect list of yours is shrinking alan so i thought i'd toss another name out there that maybe had slid UTR...

Maybe not cleared, but the COT he posted was very solid.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It was Fouts (bartender) who cleared Izulde. I think there may be more here than meets the eye. I suspect the inspector knows something that we do not know, that this was not a random grab. I am leaning heavily towards lynching Izulde, on the theory that the inspector knows something which we do not.
We have three different persons who have independently ID'd Izulde as a working girl. DC was a customer in Bishopsgate in night 1 (I observed her there as well but refrained from mentioning it on advice from hoops, I saw SnDvls working there as well), DT was a prospective customer in Cavell last night.

That's over and above Fouts, who presumably was a customer during night 0.

[Alan T]

OK, lets bat around a few names then if we are looking for conversation:

Barkeep, Izulde, ???? = prostitutes
Daddy - special role, with Izulde during arrest yesterday?
Schmidty - vouched for by Cronin
Blade - special role, looking for his version of last night's events at some point
Saldana - vouched for by Cronin, normal?
Path - normal? seems to have been occupied Nights 1 and 2
Cronin - special role, trusting him for now
LSG - ???
MrW - special role, would like to hear from him today as well
Dubb - normal?
Alan - normal?
Hoops - ???, had decent amount of info this game
DC - normal?
RA - ???, subject of current discussion and votes
Swaggs - normal?, less "conclusive" than some of others slated as normal

Copied your list with my thoughts for each in blue!

Barkeep, Izulde, ???? = prostitutes
Sndvls (now dead) and I assumed hoops for #4. Not sure who 4th is now.
Daddy - special role, with Izulde during arrest yesterday?
Isn't typical common londoner role like Blade. Does seem to possess ability to visit prostitutes as Mr.W states DT visited Izulde.
Schmidty - vouched for by Cronin
Originally seemed to hint to be an orphan, never answered my question regarding that. Has no idea what money is used for. No possible clue what his role is.
Blade - special role, looking for his version of last night's events at some point
Originally assumed he was a normal londoner changing stuff up to try to trap folks. As he continued I believe this less and he's one of the ones I wonder if they could be a bad guy with some of the pieces of the ordinary villager's roles. My gut tells me possibly Faigin.
Saldana - vouched for by Cronin, normal?
I believe Saldana is a normal londoner also.
Path - normal? seems to have been occupied Nights 1 and 2
I also feel Path is a normal londoner
Cronin - special role, trusting him for now
No clue to his role. Both Mr.W and Sndvls seemed to vouch for him some. Not sure if Sndvls was vouching for him or just trusting him at the time though.
LSG - ???
I feel normal londoner role.
MrW - special role, would like to hear from him today as well
No idea on his role, seems to have been near action every night.
Dubb - normal?
I feel is normal.. wish someone could vouch for him.
Alan - normal?
normal london role
Hoops - ???, had decent amount of info this game
DC - normal?
normal london role
RA - ???, subject of current discussion and votes
no idea, and no one has vouched for him.
Swaggs - normal?, less "conclusive" than some of others slated as normal
claims to be normal londoner. I'm 50/50 on believing him.

[Alan T]

I don't have Bullet listed above, but he was vouched for by BK.

My biggest question marks at the moment are Raiders, Swaggs, and LoneStarGirl. There are a couple of the "specials" that I would like to understand better but at the moment I'm actually more concerned with the people I can't assign any meaning to their role.

I can't vouch for LSG, but I haven't seen anything to make me think she isn't a normal londoner. When brought up in the topic yesterday with Blade, Hoops and Sndvls, Sndvls wasn't willing to vote for LSG making me think LSG might have visited Sndvls at some point. LSG tossed out one hint before anyone else about the normal londoner role and my take is she just has been too busy to give the game alot of attention and isn't bad, just preoccupied this game.

[path12]

Alan, could you refresh my memory as to who's vouched for you at night? I though someone had but can't for the life of me remember who.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I realize I make a better villager than wolf, but when I've been a wolf in these situations it's all about making sure that guy gets lynched. See the Tombstone game, for example.
The trouble is, multiple people came out quickly to say that Izulde was a prostitute. It would be risky for a wolf to try to fly in the face of that. Plus, it always catches attention when you push the lynch of an innocent, better to wait until one or two people have started in on it and then go hard afterwards.

That's not conclusive, by any means, but I think it's a reasonable alternative to your hypothesis.

I agree with your concern about the lack of a case for the arrest, though... Izulde had been vouched for at least once at that point. The trouble is, if it's not an NPC arrest, a role reveal would be required to indicate the reason behind it.

Unless it's Lestrade (ntndeacon) who ordered it, in which case we'll "never" know the reason...


("never" in quotes because we will know after the game is over in that case.)

[Alan T]

This was my working job list on what I thought were people's jobs. I could be wrong on Hoops, could be wrong on others. just my thoughts:

Prostitutes: Barkeep, Izulde, Hoopsguy
Common Londoners: Saldana, Path, LSG, Dubb, Alan, DC, Bulletsponge, Swaggs???
Common Londoner variant roles: DaddyTorgo, Blade
Unknown entirely: Schmidty, Cronin, MrW, RA

[st.cronin]

Just to be clear, I have not actually "vouched for" anybody, and I don't think I will be able to. I just feel like I know the status of certain people based on interactions either in the thread or because of night actions. So, saldana or Schmidty could be bad - but I think it's unlikely.

[Alan T]

Alan, could you refresh my memory as to who's vouched for you at night? I though someone had but can't for the life of me remember who.

No one has vouched for me at night, and I fully welcome someone to come out with any negative information about me :)

[Alan T]

Just to be clear, I have not actually "vouched for" anybody, and I don't think I will be able to. I just feel like I know the status of certain people based on interactions either in the thread or because of night actions. So, saldana or Schmidty could be bad - but I think it's unlikely.

I backed off of Schmidty because of your vouching. Without that, he is in the same boat as Raiders Army today for me. I feel ok about Saldana I think.

[st.cronin]

I backed off of Schmidty because of your vouching. Without that, he is in the same boat as Raiders Army today for me.

I completely understand that. But, I won't vote for Schmidty, not today.

[Swaggs]

I'm actually thinking it could be Swaggs who killed Tyrith, I wonder if he was being helpful here with a kill he already knew about. I'll give my reasoning for that in his next quote.

As I said, I went to opium den on Night 1. I slept on a couch and had a vivid dream in which I saw bullet and Barkeep negotiating and then going into a room together. When I woke up, I was not sure if it was real or not, but it seemed real. Afterwards, I watched a porno.


Here is more of Swaggs with the opium theme. He says he saw them in his opium-induced dream. I dont know about anyone else, but I haven't learned sqwat from the opium dealer, much less seen someone else's actions. Has anyone else gotten lucky with the opium dealer, or only swaggs so far? I am wondering if perhaps Swaggs actually was nearby in person and witnessed this, using the opium dream as an excuse for having that knowledge and gaining trust.

I cannot speak to your experiences in the opium den, so I don't know what to tell you. That was the only night I have visited and I had what appeared to be a very real dream. If there is an opium den operator, he could probably vouch for me, but I wouldn't ask him/her to at this point.

More info on Swaggs's dream about barkeep and bullet. Once again I havent had anything nearly this clear from a dream..

Just because you haven't had any luck doesn't mean it is not possible. If it were 100% reliable for everyone, then we normal Londoners would have a pretty big advantage.

I originally didn't catch this since I wasn't around for this, and read 100-150 posts catching up when I got home. Swaggs's story is more correct than Lathum's was as far as you don't follow a prosititute or look for a prostitute, but Swaggs wasn't exactly correct either.. You don't necessarily pick A district to visit. Its really close and I'm playing semantics here, but if he is legit, he will know the real answer here.

I believe I said areas or zones of the district. I have not hired a prostitute, nor have I engaged in any secret talks with them.

I don't really have great proof against Swaggs, but I'm willing to play this along a little further to see exactly how honest Swaggs has been with us.

Vote Swaggs

Things that can make me change my opinion perhaps:

1) Can any prostitute verify that Swaggs has come to visit them?
2) Swaggs can you give the full method of locating a prostitute for a night. (obviously without quoting your PM, but you should be able to get closer than saying you choose which part of the district).

I'm also willing to switch to others if people have a better candidate. I just want to get some discussion going as its been pretty slow this morning so far. Swaggs I guess seems like the best choice to run with right now, and has been super under the radar.

1) I have not visited any prostitues, so no they cannot. I spent my money on the opium den the first night and tried, unsuccessfully, to use my money elsewhere last night.
2) I do not want to violate the rules here, so approaching this carefully: I feel confident that, if I were to look for a prostitute, I may have to look in more than one area and that I would benefit from things other than her services.

I am just a simple tanner trying to make my daily wage, but I am good in this game.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Of the people whose role I don't know, the vast majority have been a john (or claimed it, or attempting it) or been to the opium den. Offhand, the remaining ones who haven't are saldana, LSG, RA, and Alan.

Right? Did I miss any of the four above claiming to seek comfort in their vices, or one of the proprietors identifying them as a customer?

I'm actually not trying to make a point that they're bad guys, necessarily, as I have no reason to think that Jekyll or Moriarty would be beyond visiting a prostitute, for example, and equally, there are a couple of as-yet-unidentified roles that would not be particularly likely to be customers.

[Swaggs]

Have the people who visited the Opium Den learned the identity of a Den Dealer? I don't need to know who it is, just wondering if that role is in the game as I have not set foot there so far.

I have only been there once, but I did not have any interaction with anyone while there.

[Alan T]

Of the people whose role I don't know, the vast majority have been a john (or claimed it, or attempting it) or been to the opium den. Offhand, the remaining ones who haven't are saldana, LSG, RA, and Alan.

Right? Did I miss any of the four above claiming to seek comfort in their vices, or one of the proprietors identifying them as a customer?

I'm actually not trying to make a point that they're bad guys, necessarily, as I have no reason to think that Jekyll or Moriarty would be beyond visiting a prostitute, for example, and equally, there are a couple of as-yet-unidentified roles that would not be particularly likely to be customers.

Correct, I have not claimed visiting any prostitute yet.

[Swaggs]

I'm only here for about 20 more minutes if anyone has any questions or wants to bounch any ideas off me.

[Alan T]

Swaggs, Im guessing you were posting as you were catching up. The more I thought about you, the more you became 50/50 on me if I believed you. I talked myself out of pushing for you as I felt there were better candidates.

The only concern I have is at some point we're going to run out of unverified people.. if you are good I would probably encourage you to try to find your way into a CoT tonight. There are a few other people I currently trust more than you who also are unverified.. I think at some point people with that ability probably should try to make use of it.

[Swaggs]

I'm only here for about 20 more minutes if anyone has any questions or wants to bounch any ideas off me.

bounce any ideas off me. :)

[Alan T]

Swaggs, what did you do Night 0,

and you say last night you went searching for a prostitute, which districts did you look for one in?

[hoopsguy]

Swaggs, are you playing the common villager role, a modified common villager like a couple of people have claimed, or a totally different special role?

I'm wondering what your night activites have been for Night 0 and Night 2.

[Alan T]

Swaggs, are you playing the common villager role, a modified common villager like a couple of people have claimed, or a totally different special role?

I'm wondering what your night activites have been for Night 0 and Night 2.

I'm wondering if you're reading my mind.

[Swaggs]

Swaggs, what did you do Night 0,

and you say last night you went searching for a prostitute, which districts did you look for one in?

I didn't do anything on Night 0. I didn't have time to get an order in.

I didn't say I went searching for a prostitute last night. In fact, I have said several times now that I have not been in contact with any prostitutes.

[Alan T]

[QUOTE=Swaggs;1320983]

1) I have not visited any prostitues, so no they cannot. I spent my money on the opium den the first night and tried, unsuccessfully, to use my money elsewhere last night.
QUOTE]

I apologize then. I assumed by this you meant you tried to spend money on a prostitute last night. What did you try to spend your money on last night then?

[Swaggs]

Swaggs, are you playing the common villager role, a modified common villager like a couple of people have claimed, or a totally different special role?

I'm wondering what your night activites have been for Night 0 and Night 2.

I am the local tanner. I have the ability to perform one of two night actions (visit prostitute or visit opium den). I also have the ability to hire an urchin to follow someone or scout out an area for me.

I put my money yesterday towards hiring an urchin. I don't want to give too much more about that away, other than to say that it was not a very fruitful exchange.

[Blade6119]

Who i trust right now:
Hoopsguy
Dubb
Barkeep
Raiders Army
Saldana(a little more shaky here, but got the vibe)

and maybe bullet...

[Swaggs]

[QUOTE=Swaggs;1320983]

1) I have not visited any prostitues, so no they cannot. I spent my money on the opium den the first night and tried, unsuccessfully, to use my money elsewhere last night.
QUOTE]

I apologize then. I assumed by this you meant you tried to spend money on a prostitute last night. What did you try to spend your money on last night then?

I spent 5 on the opium den on Night 1 and used some of the remainder yesterday, during the day, to try and hire an urchin to gather some information for me. I did not perform a night action because my money was tied up.

[Swaggs]

Anybody else, real quick?

I will be back tonight, but probably not until about 9:00 PMish.

BTW: No Lynch Izulde

[st.cronin]

unvote Raiders Army

just noticed something, I think he's ok

vote AlanT

I just can't get a feel for him, and that bugs me. I'm not really sure which way to go, still looking for a better idea.

[Alan T]

unvote Raiders Army

just noticed something, I think he's ok

vote AlanT

I just can't get a feel for him, and that bugs me. I'm not really sure which way to go, still looking for a better idea.

I would love to hear what you and Blade trust about Raiders. For the life of me in 19 pages of this thread, I couldn't find much.

[Swaggs]

Alright fellas, I'll be back this evening.

[st.cronin]

I would love to hear what you and Blade trust about Raiders. For the life of me in 19 pages of this thread, I couldn't find much.

He has been vouched for, although possibly not in a way that would be obvious, unless you know what to look for.

I don't know if Blade sees the same thing, or has a different reason. Blade's list is somewhat different from mine.

[Alan T]

He has been vouched for, although possibly not in a way that would be obvious, unless you know what to look for.

I don't know if Blade sees the same thing, or has a different reason. Blade's list is somewhat different from mine.

Interesting, I just don't see it. He hasnt been seen out at night that anyone has said.. no one has come out and said I trust Raiders.. and the only hint I found him giving was an incorrect or possibly joke hint where he said gold pieces instead of shillings.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, if you are trusting Raiders then what direction do you think makes sense for our vote today? I've got a better feel for people I would prefer to avoid than people I should vote to lynch.

Swaggs? LSG? Do you distrust Alan now? Would love to talk through some scenarios ...

[st.cronin]

Hoops, I suspect that some of us have made bad assumptions about the game mechanics. I'm reevaluating some things in my mind right now. I'm not sure about Dodgerchick, for example.

[st.cronin]

I'm also not sure about hoopsguy.

[st.cronin]

Basically what I'm getting at is that I suspect all bad guys have some sort of "villager" cover. They can visit an opium den, visit a prostitute, hire somebody. I think having done any of those things is not enough to clear somebody.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, if I was playing evil then I was pretty dumb yesterday with Lathum. The way I read the rules is that "evil wins" both collectively (major) and individually (minor).

I'm fine with you working through your assumptions, but I would like to be able to participate in the thought process.

In terms of your play, I know what district you were in last night and I have some idea of what your actions might have been. I'm pretty confident you are a good guy and a little disappointed that it appears I saw you and you did not see me.

[st.cronin]

hoops, how many other people did you notice in that district?

[st.cronin]

Also, which district did you see me in?

[Alan T]

Cronin, if I was playing evil then I was pretty dumb yesterday with Lathum. The way I read the rules is that "evil wins" both collectively (major) and individually (minor).

I'm fine with you working through your assumptions, but I would like to be able to participate in the thought process.

In terms of your play, I know what district you were in last night and I have some idea of what your actions might have been. I'm pretty confident you are a good guy and a little disappointed that it appears I saw you and you did not see me.

I was going to ask you about this. The main reason I didn't strike back at St.Cronin was a few people seem to have good "vibes" about him. I purposely have been playing a bit cheeky so don't mind getting a little heat.. but I am actually pretty dumbfounded to finding what anyone has for Raiders. My initial feel was bad guys circling the wagons to try to push the vote away from him.

Neither Blade nor St.Cronin either gave a reason for why Raiders is good. I openly admit that I know nothing about Raiders, and thats my reason for a vote. I've been asking all day for someone to vouch for him (which at this point should be a reasonable request) and after 7-8 hours still no one has.

I doubt I'll move my vote from Raiders without someone actually coming to vouch for him. If others want to pursue something else, thats fine.

[hoopsguy]

I'll put some more information out from last night, as it may be helpful in terms of placing people on the map:

It appears that there were two distinct time periods in the evening. I was in Bishopsgate for both.

1st - there was lots of activity there. I saw two people, Barkeep and Path

2nd - I saw Barkeep, Cronin, Schmidty, and Blade

I believe that Barkeep had two partners last night.

Now, given that we have seen people move between locations at night - does it make sense that someone might be able to have two unique actions? Prostitute/Kill, for example? I've leaned towards "NO" on this most of the game but I really don't know for sure that this is the case.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I would be very surprised if Schmidty has a "normal" villager role. And not too surprised if he had some kind of an "urchin" role, based on a re-read of the PM and supported by his post earlier that "urchins rule" or something along those lines.

[st.cronin]

Hoops, were you in any other districts last night?

[Mr. Wednesday]

hoops, I think we both saw the same event in Bishopsgate last night.

Regarding your question about having two unique actions... it seems like some actions involve multiple sectors, e.g. people looking for a prostitute to hire, will look in two sectors, and I've noted the two phases.

Implications:
* If you're in the right sector, but at the wrong time, you will miss events there.
* Do the bad guys spend one phase in another sector whiling away their time?

[st.cronin]

/is puzzled

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, I was only in the one district last night.

[LoneStarGirl]

I can't vouch for LSG, but I haven't seen anything to make me think she isn't a normal londoner. When brought up in the topic yesterday with Blade, Hoops and Sndvls, Sndvls wasn't willing to vote for LSG making me think LSG might have visited Sndvls at some point. LSG tossed out one hint before anyone else about the normal londoner role and my take is she just has been too busy to give the game alot of attention and isn't bad, just preoccupied this game.

I wish I could contribute more but I have a villager role. I wish I wasn't so preoccupied because this game is hella fun. But I am trying to contribute as much as I can whenever I can.

[Alan T]

Also, I would be very surprised if Schmidty has a "normal" villager role. And not too surprised if he had some kind of an "urchin" role, based on a re-read of the PM and supported by his post earlier that "urchins rule" or something along those lines.

Its funny you say that.. I said a while back that Schmidty hinted at being an urchin, then I asked him about it, he ignored my question. He commented about no idea what money is used for in this game (which seems weird to me since we pay urchins... or bid on them so to speak and they pick the highest value) so asked him about that and he ignored that question too..

Sometimes Schmidty is so frustrating to figure out that I want to lynch him just because. What you say makes me go back to what i originally was thinking about him.

[LoneStarGirl]

Hoops I know i can't vouch for alant but the fact that he feels so strongly about me being a villager makes me assume he too is good. I will not be voting for him today or anytime soon unless somebody can come up with some pretty damning evidence

[st.cronin]

It doesn't seem like we're able to focus on anybody, today. I have my suspicions about a number of players, but nothing concrete. As I've argued in other games, a "no lynch" wouldn't be the worst result in the world, especially in a game where everybody is wandering around at night, seemingly.

[Alan T]

hoops, I think we both saw the same event in Bishopsgate last night.

Regarding your question about having two unique actions... it seems like some actions involve multiple sectors, e.g. people looking for a prostitute to hire, will look in two sectors, and I've noted the two phases.

Implications:
* If you're in the right sector, but at the wrong time, you will miss events there.
* Do the bad guys spend one phase in another sector whiling away their time?

I have been trying to figure this out myself. I was in the same area as BrianD and Fouts when they were killed, but I did not see anyone else and as far as I know, no one saw me that night.

Last night I only saw one person and have no idea if anyone saw me, but I wasn't in whitechapel where Sndvls was killed other than going to and from my home there.

I don't have any ability that I know of to take me to multiple areas, but not sure if onlookers watch people in areas as they leave their homes, etc or what.

So far in 3 nights I've seen only one person and have no idea if I've even been seen at all.

[Alan T]

It doesn't seem like we're able to focus on anybody, today. I have my suspicions about a number of players, but nothing concrete. As I've argued in other games, a "no lynch" wouldn't be the worst result in the world, especially in a game where everybody is wandering around at night, seemingly.

I fully encourage voting for Raiders then for now. He said he will be home tonight before the lynch and so far he has contributed zero to helping us figure stuff out. No one can vouch for him and as far as I know, no one knows anything about him.

People are more than welcome to move off of him if they like what he says, but so far he hasn't been saying anything and just floating under the radar.

I am sure you can appreciate not lynching people only for being vocal, and instead encouraging people to participate with ideas and provide feedback since you always get upset at being targeted for being vocal. :)

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, were you in any other districts last night?

Cronin, did you expect me to be in a different district last night? I'm trying to figure out what aspect of my information would be confusing you.

[st.cronin]

I fully encourage voting for Raiders then for now. He said he will be home tonight before the lynch and so far he has contributed zero to helping us figure stuff out. No one can vouch for him and as far as I know, no one knows anything about him.

People are more than welcome to move off of him if they like what he says, but so far he hasn't been saying anything and just floating under the radar.

I am sure you can appreciate not lynching people only for being vocal, and instead encouraging people to participate with ideas and provide feedback since you always get upset at being targeted for being vocal. :)


I do appreciate that, but trust me, RA is good. He has not been particularly helpful, but it would be a mistake to lynch him.

[Lorena]

/ooc
My goodness, it's freaking cold outside! It was mildly sprinkling this morning when I dropped my kid off and I actually went outside in shorts. The sprinkling water felt like it was cutting through my skin and it's windy as hell right now. I drank some hot vanilla cappuccino with some ginger snaps sprinkled in and my soul feels renewed. Ahhh... felt soo good in my belly.

Back to the game:

Hoops, I suspect that some of us have made bad assumptions about the game mechanics. I'm reevaluating some things in my mind right now. I'm not sure about Dodgerchick, for example.

I'm disappointed you feel I'm not trustworthy but I can see where you're coming from. The game seems a little unbalanced because, as Alan mentioned, we've been able to form a CoT fairly easily. I have several people in it (including you) but I find it hard to believe that THAT many people can be trusted. I've no doubt that some people in the vicinity of the crime scenes are baddies. I find it hard to believe that the killers escape without getting noticed, I'm sure they've been able to blend fairly easily with the rest of the villagers.

[st.cronin]

I am out for a while, will be back before lynch.

[Blade6119]

Blade, if you are trusting Raiders then what direction do you think makes sense for our vote today? I've got a better feel for people I would prefer to avoid than people I should vote to lynch.

Swaggs? LSG? Do you distrust Alan now? Would love to talk through some scenarios ...
I do distrust alan now, swaggs and LSG are also not trusted...My trust list is public, and has not changed. If i had to vote right now, it would fall to Alan.

Ill be around for the next 4 hours, talk away

[Alan T]

I do appreciate that, but trust me, RA is good. He has not been particularly helpful, but it would be a mistake to lynch him.

Where would you look for targets? Not necessarily to lynch but to push for more information? Right now you have your vote on me which I'm not sure what else I can provide information wise.

The two people we know the least about are Schmidty and Raiders. You are the single only person who is vouching for them both. (Even though you said you aren't vouching for Schmidty but just dont want to lynch him today).

the other person we know the least about is Mr.Wednesday but I personally think its a mistake to go after him. Perhaps for the same reasoning as you have for Schmidty and Raiders, I don't know though since I don't know your reasoning.

We can look at the only two pseudo vanilla roles with Blade and DaddyTorgo, but I'm not sure what else we will gain from pushing either of them. Blade said if we pushed him he would tell us his name but from the sounds of it, his name might lead us to lynch him even more than before. I doubt moving a vote to either of them unless we seriously just wanted to lynch them would be worthwhile.

Otherwise you have a group of three unvouched for vanilla people in Dubbs, Saldana and path all of three I have really good feelings about and doubt I would be that hot after...

or you have other assorted people..

I'm looking for options.. just right now you're the only one saying not to lynch Schmidty or RA and not saying why. What hoops said about schmidty makes me a feel a bit better about him for today but still Raiders is just who knows what.

[Alan T]

I do distrust alan now, swaggs and LSG are also not trusted...My trust list is public, and has not changed. If i had to vote right now, it would fall to Alan.

Ill be around for the next 4 hours, talk away

I would love to hear your reasons this game for not trusting me :) Or is it only because of my questioning your previous statements? Do you have some dirt on me you would like to share?

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, at what point do you show your hand? I'm worried about you reaching a point of increased attention from the wrong people tonight without revealing why you know what you know - that sort of thing tends to happen when you are the only person vouching for someone (or in this case, someones) in the game.

I'm pretty sure you were not in Bishopsgate last night looking for tail ...

[Lorena]

BTW, did anyone hire an urchin last night? I don't remember this being mentioned today.

[Blade6119]

I would love to hear your reasons this game for not trusting me :) Or is it only because of my questioning your previous statements? Do you have some dirt on me you would like to share?

You have not gone to an opium den, you have not hired a prostitute, and have not hired an urchin. What exactly have you been doing with your time mr. alan?

As for yesterday, i also dont believe i heared who hired the urchin...anyone tell me if i missed that?

[Alan T]

You have not gone to an opium den, you have not hired a prostitute, and have not hired an urchin. What exactly have you been doing with your time mr. alan?

As for yesterday, i also dont believe i heared who hired the urchin...anyone tell me if i missed that?

I actually did go to the opium den, and if I remember right, I was the first one who talked about my opium den experience.

I have tried to hire an urchin, but failed on night 0. I have not tried since due to money issues. I got robbed on night 1 (the same night i went to the opium den), so money is tight with me. (all of which I had previously said).