werewolf LIV! Terror at the country club (GAME OVER WOLVES WIN)

[EagleFan]

If someone changes to Crim, I will put my vote that way as well.

Hmmm, always waiting to vote with others...

[molson]

If someone changes to Crim, I will put my vote that way as well.

So now if I vote from Crim, I'm saving Neon Chaos. Not the message I want to send.

[st.cronin]

Starting to lean towards changing my vote for Crim. But I don't want a landslide in that direction either.

So, you want to vote for Crim, but you don't want Crim lynched?

[Neon_Chaos]

somethings fishy...that has N_C voting twice

My vote is on Barkeep.

I think Lathum forgot to remove my vote on AlanT.

Seeing as we're voting for each other. If Barkeep switches his vote from me to Crim, I'll switch my vote to Crim as well.

[RendeR]

We gots a whole lot of self preservation nation going on out here tonight. Funny how that works out....

Whatcha think Cronin, shall we jump on someone else and save our finger pointing for tomorrow?

[molson]

So, you want to vote for Crim, but you don't want Crim lynched?

Not quite. I wouldn't mind Crim being lynched, but I don't want 3-4 other people to follow me in that vote, taking away what we might learn on day 1. I also don't really want to be the one saving NeonChaos.

[RendeR]

neon_Chaos is a tempting victim.......

[st.cronin]

We gots a whole lot of self preservation nation going on out here tonight. Funny how that works out....

Whatcha think Cronin, shall we jump on someone else and save our finger pointing for tomorrow?

My preference, in order, is

no lynch
somebody other than st.cronin being lynched
crim being lynched

I'm not moving my vote ... yet.

[Lathum]

updated vote count

Neon_Chaos- 3 AlanT (131), Barkeep (162), Oliegirl (199)
St.Cronin- 2 RenderR (95), Molson (148)
RPI-Fan- 2 Hoopsguy (82), Telle (107),
Barkeep -2 MrBug (179), Neon Chaos (193)
RenderR- 1 St.Cronin (87)
ChiefRum- 1 Passacaglia (115)
Crim- 1 Path12 (129)
EagleFan-1 RaidersArmy (140)
MrDNA- 1 ArlingtonColt
AlanT 1 MrDNA (143),
HoopsGuy -1 EagleFan (167),

sorry for the small mistakes. I had my FF draft for my money league so I was multi tasking.

That and there is way more movement then the usual day 1

[Barkeep49]

We're going to learn nothing from today's vote. Way too spread out.

[Neon_Chaos]

So you're all willing to let the next 20 somewhat minutes pass just to get me lynched?

[hoopsguy]

Here are my thoughts on Crim - he shows as being online at the moment, but not in the thread. If he never shows in the thread, then chances are almost certain he is a villager - he would have people telling him to get in here because he is in danger of getting voted for if he had wolf teammates.

I would have saved this to post later, but this is likely my last post before the deadline. What I don't want to see happen is a stampede of people to vote for Crim when he just forgot the game was starting today. Then everyone shakes their head and says, "Well, he didn't check in!".

In fact, if there are a flurry of Crim votes that emerge between the time that I started typing this and the time it takes to post (I started after reading Post #254) then I'll likely take a long look at the people who stirred this pot.

[PurdueBrad]

Neon, I'm going to try and stay around with my vote to see if I can force a tie. I still don't think it's a bad thing (although I get the hard to engineer thing).

[RendeR]

Lathum lathum burning bright
multitasking through the night
Found the votes to lynch
Thought to himself "That was a cinch"
Then went back to fantasy football
Drafting a team he hopes won't be god-awful
Multitasking through the night
Lathum lathum burning bright.

[DaddyTorgo]

Here are my thoughts on Crim - he shows as being online at the moment, but not in the thread. If he never shows in the thread, then chances are almost certain he is a villager - he would have people telling him to get in here because he is in danger of getting voted for if he had wolf teammates.

I would have saved this to post later, but this is likely my last post before the deadline. What I don't want to see happen is a stampede of people to vote for Crim when he just forgot the game was starting today. Then everyone shakes their head and says, "Well, he didn't check in!".

In fact, if there are a flurry of Crim votes that emerge between the time that I started typing this and the time it takes to post (I started after reading Post #254) then I'll likely take a long look at the people who stirred this pot.

I agree.

and FWIW...at this point i'm not voting except to prevent a tie, because things are so spread out we're not going to learn anything from this day

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

and I just read that and realized "then why wouldn't I want a tie?"

so yeah...i dunno what i'm going to do

[MrBug708]

Here are my thoughts on Crim - he shows as being online at the moment, but not in the thread. If he never shows in the thread, then chances are almost certain he is a villager - he would have people telling him to get in here because he is in danger of getting voted for if he had wolf teammates.

I would have saved this to post later, but this is likely my last post before the deadline. What I don't want to see happen is a stampede of people to vote for Crim when he just forgot the game was starting today. Then everyone shakes their head and says, "Well, he didn't check in!".

In fact, if there are a flurry of Crim votes that emerge between the time that I started typing this and the time it takes to post (I started after reading Post #254) then I'll likely take a long look at the people who stirred this pot.

This seems like sound advice unless you are wolf trying to defend another wolf's creative tactically approach...:)

[Neon_Chaos]

I agree.

and FWIW...at this point i'm not voting except to prevent a tie, because things are so spread out we're not going to learn anything from this day

You're not voting???

[Crim]

Aww crap. Just now checking in, read page six only, and apparently I'm in mortal danger?!?

I am a villager, but with deadline in 20 minutes, dunno if I'll convince anyone of that...

[molson]

I don't get why a tie is good

[Crim]

Actually, I even was perusing the off-topic forum, then remembered that the game might be sttarting today.

[Neon_Chaos]

Aww crap. Just now checking in, read page six only, and apparently I'm in mortal danger?!?

I am a villager, but with deadline in 20 minutes, dunno if I'll convince anyone of that...

:rolleyes:

Someone better move their vote off me. Seriously, this isn't funny.

[Crim]

gonna start reading backwards, i'll resopnd to posts as I read them, quickly.

[Crim]

vote count?

[MrBug708]

I think a tie works in favor of the wolves since we won't learn anything other then having a dead person over night. I'd prefer that someone dies so we learn something and then glean a little bit today rather then nothing at all...

[DaddyTorgo]

crim you only have one vote on you

[Neon_Chaos]

For Crim:

Neon_Chaos- 3 AlanT (131), Barkeep (162), Oliegirl (199)
St.Cronin- 2 RenderR (95), Molson (148)
RPI-Fan- 2 Hoopsguy (82), Telle (107),
Barkeep -2 MrBug (179), Neon Chaos (193)
RenderR- 1 St.Cronin (87)
ChiefRum- 1 Passacaglia (115)
Crim- 1 Path12 (129)
EagleFan-1 RaidersArmy (140)
MrDNA- 1 ArlingtonColt
AlanT 1 MrDNA (143),
HoopsGuy -1 EagleFan (167),

[Crim]

oh, nm, only one vote... hmm i have about 15 minutes to try to get an informed vote in. I'll try . any penalty for not voting? don't wanna throw out a bullcrap guess just to not have the "he missed the vote, must be a wolf!" stuff come flying at me.

[DaddyTorgo]

neon...don't see why I would bother voting at this point.

Everything's so spread out

[RendeR]

*les sighs*

[DaddyTorgo]

oh well. Less spread-out than I thought...but...i dunno

*shrug*

[Barkeep49]

I don't get why a tie is good
Theory is that it is very hard to lynch a villager day 1 (wolves can coordinate, villagers can't) and so it's better to not lynch anyone than to lynch a villager.

[Crim]

This seems like sound advice unless you are wolf trying to defend another wolf's creative tactically approach...:)

Read my only other game. I'm neither creative nor tactical! :D

[Barkeep49]

oh, nm, only one vote... hmm i have about 15 minutes to try to get an informed vote in. I'll try . any penalty for not voting? don't wanna throw out a bullcrap guess just to not have the "he missed the vote, must be a wolf!" stuff come flying at me.

oh well. Less spread-out than I thought...but...i dunno

*shrug*

I think this is poor form.

[RendeR]

Then vote for one of teh two vote guys DT, tie it up and have no lynch, if we learn nothing tonight we might as well fuck it up ROYALly and not even kill someone.

damnit I'm hungry, lynch somebody already......


Do i want thigh or breast meat this lynch....hrm...so hard to choose....

[st.cronin]

I agree with Barkeep, not voting is incredibly anti-village.

[PurdueBrad]

Theory is that it is very hard to lynch a villager day 1 (wolves can coordinate, villagers can't) and so it's better to not lynch anyone than to lynch a villager.

Yeah, that was kind of the theory I was thinking since at times it seems like this becomes a war of attrition, try to minimize senseless losses but I do get the learning something from the vote thing. I guess I get the duck, duck, goose analogy from before though because it's a shot in the dark.

[Crim]

I s there any case at all against neon?

[Neon_Chaos]

Ten minutes left.

I hate it that you guys had to force my hand out like this. Considering that I thought I had a great starting position.

I am the Valet (seer). I also have the Serving Tray (25% chance of avoiding a wolf-attack).

You guys suck. :(

[MrBug708]

People voted for Neon because he seems to want to start a bandwagon on everyone else. From personal experience I would do my best to get anyonet o vote for people other then me so I dont blame him

[RPI-Fan]

VOTE ST. CRONIN

[Neon_Chaos]

btw:

Unvote Barkeep
Vote AlanT

You started this "cast suspicion on Neon Chaos" vibe.

[Crim]

I thought the prevailing wisdom in these games was that when there's quite a few villager roles, it's actually better not to lynch day one? There was a lot of talk about this the last three games I read... 7 minutes, I don't know who's suspicious, but I don't wanna skip the vote if that'll just make y'all come after me next day...

[st.cronin]

Geez. Second game in a row we've had a reveal on the first day.

[path12]

DT, no vote today means you get my vote tomorrow.

[st.cronin]

unvote RendeR
Vote Rpi-Fan

[PurdueBrad]

I believe Neon 'cause that was obviously desperate and could screw us.

vote Alan T

[path12]

Since Crim is here now, but RPI hasn't been yet:

UNVOTE CRIM
VOTE RPI FAN

[Alan T]

Unvote Neon_Chaos
Vote DaddyTorgo

Dont like his non-voting stance, and with neon's reveal

[MrBug708]

DT, no vote today means you get my vote tomorrow.

I kind of agree

[MrBug708]

Unvote - Barkeep
Vote - RPI-Fan

[Barkeep49]

unvote Neon
Vote DT

For his nonvoting stance.

[Crim]

DT, no vote today means you get my vote tomorrow.

I need to think about this more after the dealine. I'm gonna vote, but I don't feel good about it. Nor about what path is saying...

[st.cronin]

Just a note, its possible Neon is lying about his role but is still a villager. That would be ballsy, but might work.

[RendeR]

People voted for Neon because he seems to want to start a bandwagon on everyone else. From personal experience I would do my best to get anyonet o vote for people other then me so I dont blame him


The problem here is that with his reveal he shows himself to have played really poorly here. As the seer he really shouldn't have been leapfrog-voting all damned night. it just caused suspicion that he couldn;t turn away because its day 1 and there is no evidence to protect him.

[Barkeep49]

FTR I think this was a reveal that shouldn't have happened. It looked like we were going to go down with a tie (as Neon could have changed his vote in self preservation). Now we've burned the friggin seer day 1.

[Alan T]

Just a note, its possible Neon is lying about his role but is still a villager. That would be ballsy, but might work.


Worst move ever.

Out yourself and the real seer and do all of the wolves work for them.. Anyone doing that would be my day one vote forever.

[Crim]

VOTE PATH

explanation to follow, gotta get it in quick.

[RendeR]

VOTE COUNT?

[Barkeep49]

Just a note, its possible Neon is lying about his role but is still a villager. That would be ballsy, but might work.
That would be ballsy.

[RendeR]

Note to self, when running a game don't multitask near deadline.

[Neon_Chaos]

The problem here is that with his reveal he shows himself to have played really poorly here. As the seer he really shouldn't have been leapfrog-voting all damned night. it just caused suspicion that he couldn;t turn away because its day 1 and there is no evidence to protect him.

I DIDN'T LEAPFROG!

AlanT voted for me because he said I was bandwagoning, and OF COURSE I would switch my vote over to him.

Crap. Get your facts straight people.

[RendeR]

UNVOTE ST CRONIN
VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Barkeep49]

Worst move ever.

Out yourself and the real seer and do all of the wolves work for them.. Anyone doing that would be my day one vote forever.
Really? If you're the seer you announce the lie? Why not scan him that night instead? At least that way you get the confirmed 1-1? Also makes Neon a more likely night kill. No if I'm the seer I don't announce there at all and wouldn't after he came up clear from the scan.

[st.cronin]

Really? If you're the seer you announce the lie? Why not scan him that night instead? At least that way you get the confirmed 1-1? Also makes Neon a more likely night kill. No if I'm the seer I don't announce there at all and wouldn't after he came up clear from the scan.

Exactly.

[Barkeep49]

I DIDN'T LEAPFROG!

AlanT voted for me because he said I was bandwagoning, and OF COURSE I would switch my vote over to him.

Crap. Get your facts straight people.
See this sort of defense would have been better a little while ago :). I'd have loved to have worked through this with you.

[Alan T]

Really? If you're the seer you announce the lie? Why not scan him that night instead? At least that way you get the confirmed 1-1? Also makes Neon a more likely night kill. No if I'm the seer I don't announce there at all and wouldn't after he came up clear from the scan.

If I am the seer and someone claims they are the seer when about to be lynched, I dont waste a seer scan on them. I assume they are bad.

Whether or not I reveal right away depends on where in the game we are, but I definitly chalk that person up to be a wolf.

[RendeR]

I DIDN'T LEAPFROG!

AlanT voted for me because he said I was bandwagoning, and OF COURSE I would switch my vote over to him.

Crap. Get your facts straight people.

Facts or not, you brought negative attention to yourself and if you are indeed the seer it was a bad play. As the seer you have to protect yourself. if you want to be the out front in the open seer (like I tried to do in the clue game) you have to make sure people aren't coming after YOU because then you end up outing yourself.

When you saw the votes coming your way you should have just relaxed a bit and let the flow move to someone else.

[Lathum]

deadline

[st.cronin]

I lost count, but we may very well have got a tie there.

[RendeR]

DINGALINGALING!

[Neon_Chaos]

I don't need people lecturing me.

As a note, I am scanning Hoopsguy tonight.

[Lathum]

will be a minute to calculate results.

Remember if you have a night action you must submit it ASAP

[Neon_Chaos]

So the bodyguard better keep my ass protected.

[Crim]

Only because (in 1.5 pages of frantic scanning of posts, plus quick-posting as needed) path seemed to jump on people for 1. Not posting (I can see how this is an indicator though) and 2. Saying they didn't want a day one lynch...

I need to give this more thought, because I see that others are agreeing with path (specifically about DT not voting is suspicious) but I don't see how a day one lynch helps us. I only ever remember reading one game with a day one wolf lynch. Is it common at all?

Well I guess we're about to find out...


And, path, once I read the thread I'll comment further about suspecting you or not. I just felt pressured to vote someone, and have some reason for it, so there ya go.

[RendeR]

So the bodyguard better keep my ass protected.


only saves you for tonight, tomorrow night you end up dead.

[molson]

I hate the nonvoting stance, but I don't see how that makes DT a wolf. Why would he want to stand out?

[Alan T]

Is Render playing this way because he's the hidden convert and trying to draw attention to himself?

[path12]

Only because (in 1.5 pages of frantic scanning of posts, plus quick-posting as needed) path seemed to jump on people for 1. Not posting (I can see how this is an indicator though) and 2. Saying they didn't want a day one lynch...

I need to give this more thought, because I see that others are agreeing with path (specifically about DT not voting is suspicious) but I don't see how a day one lynch helps us. I only ever remember reading one game with a day one wolf lynch. Is it common at all?

Well I guess we're about to find out...


And, path, once I read the thread I'll comment further about suspecting you or not. I just felt pressured to vote someone, and have some reason for it, so there ya go.

I've got no problem with your vote, Crim. I'm pretty consistent on my stance -- a) that those who don't check in are my first day 1 choices and b) except in very rare cases (the clue game for example), I'm one of those who supports the idea that lynches are a good thing.

Now I guess I can add c) not voting on purpose. That both helps you hide a voting record and is not helpful for the village.

[PurdueBrad]

I hate the nonvoting stance, but I don't see how that makes DT a wolf. Why would he want to stand out?

I agree with this, I only see how it would've pointed that way if he purposely unbroke a tie to lynch someone.

[Neon_Chaos]

only saves you for tonight, tomorrow night you end up dead.

I still have my item. It's a 25% chance to save me from the wolves. I'm not using it tonight, guys. Will reserve it for tomorrow.

[path12]

I agree with this, I only see how it would've pointed that way if he purposely unbroke a tie to lynch someone.

Or by not voting preserved a tie, or knew we were villager/villager and it didn't matter.

[Neon_Chaos]

Is Render playing this way because he's the hidden convert and trying to draw attention to himself?

God, I hope not. With the BG busy keeping my ass safe...

well, at least we'll know if a conversion occurs, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

blah. This is a fustercluck

[RendeR]

Is Render playing this way because he's the hidden convert and trying to draw attention to himself?


Think about that post for a bit Alan. If I were the hidden convert why would I bring attention to myself. If I'm lynched I'm lynched, that doesn't help the wolves. I want them to try killing me, this certainly isn't a the play style that would garner me a wolf targeting, they'd be more inclined to ignore me as the rest of you will probably lynch me at some point.

[PurdueBrad]

Or by not voting preserved a tie, or knew we were villager/villager and it didn't matter.

Yea, true and better explained than my post.

[DaddyTorgo]

well, this should be interesting

[Neon_Chaos]

has anyone a quick vote count?

[EagleFan]

Think about that post for a bit Alan. If I were the hidden convert why would I bring attention to myself. If I'm lynched I'm lynched, that doesn't help the wolves. I want them to try killing me, this certainly isn't a the play style that would garner me a wolf targeting, they'd be more inclined to ignore me as the rest of you will probably lynch me at some point.

I kind of agree with this.

If one was the hidden convert they may come out and declare themselves to be the seer.

[molson]

blah. This is a fustercluck

You certainly didn't do much to help clear things up.

[RendeR]

I kind of agree with this.

If one was the hidden convert they may come out and declare themselves to be the seer.




**CLANK**





*picks up jaw*

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm the vote-winner. But I'm not going to die.

[path12]

I kind of agree with this.

If one was the hidden convert they may come out and declare themselves to be the seer.

That's a helluva good point. I hadn't thought of that.

[Crim]

except in very rare cases (the clue game for example), I'm one of those who supports the idea that lynches are a good thing.


Okee... that was my only game. :)

[Neon_Chaos]

I kind of agree with this.

If one was the hidden convert they may come out and declare themselves to be the seer.

True. But the hidden convert wouldn't have an item to help block wolf attacks now, would he?

[path12]

Okee... that was my only game. :)

And why I didn't mind the vote. ;)

[Neon_Chaos]

DT's most probably the "duke" role.

[path12]

True. But the hidden convert wouldn't have an item to help block wolf attacks now, would he?

Depends on if it's random distribution or not. I'll have to recheck the rules but I don't remember it being said one way or the other.

[Alan T]

DT's most probably the "duke" role.


Thats my assumption based on his comment

[Lathum]

RPI-Fan- 5 Hoopsguy (82), Telle (107), St.Cronin (296) Path12 (298) MrBug (301)
AlanT 3 MrDNA (143), Neon Chaos (292), PerdueBrad (297)
DaddyTorgo 3- alanT (299), Barkeep (302), render (313)
ChiefRum- 1 Passacaglia (115)
EagleFan-1 RaidersArmy (140)
MrDNA- 1 ArlingtonColt
HoopsGuy -1 EagleFan (167),
Path12- 1 Crim (308)
Neon_Chaos- 1 Oliegirl (199)
St.Cronin- 2 Molson (148) RPIFan (291)


Final vote count. Writeup coming

[DaddyTorgo]

DT's most probably the "duke" role.

*ding ding* winner

[DaddyTorgo]

holy crappa. I'm not the vote-winner.

[EagleFan]

True. But the hidden convert wouldn't have an item to help block wolf attacks now, would he?

Because he wouldn't lie about that too?

[RPI-Fan]

Great work fellas. :rolleyes:

[Neon_Chaos]

MOTHER FUCKER.

[Neon_Chaos]

holy crappa. I'm not the vote-winner.

We have fucked it up.

[hoopsguy]

This seems like sound advice unless you are wolf trying to defend another wolf's creative tactically approach...:)

I don't think that Crim, in his second game, would take that approach. It would be kinda cool if he deked me out here, but I'll go with the more likely approach (the one I outlined with him as a villager) until given more reasons to think otherwise.

[DaddyTorgo]

We have fucked it up.

to put it mildly

[MrBug708]

Great work fellas. :rolleyes:

Sorry Kyle

[PurdueBrad]

This was not what I needed after a softball slaughter. My whole day has been a flustercuck now! Guess I'm going to have to play some Madden or Call of Duty.

[Lathum]

After the stunning death of Lathum you all determine there are wolves in your midst. The accusations fly but in the end it is determined RPIFan must be a wolf. You all descend on him and savegly beat him. As you pummel him to death you realize there are car keys and numbeered tickets falling from his jacket.

After it is to late you realize RPIFan was the valet!!

You all look around at each other seemingly not making eye contact.

Night actions coming shortly

[path12]

Ummm......oh Nee-oooonnnnnnnn.

[st.cronin]

Um, what?

[path12]

Someone's got some 'splanin' to do.

[MrBug708]

Oh snapz

[Neon_Chaos]

Oh man. Oh man. FUCK.

Sorry guys. This is a mjor clusterfuck in the works.

I don't know how fucked up this is.

I'm a fucking villager, and yeah, you were right, I pulled out a ballsy move. :( Shit.

[Alan T]

Well nice.. I also passed Neon my golf club last night. Well guess my first instinct was better than my second one.

[Alan T]

Oh man. Oh man. FUCK.

Sorry guys. This is a mjor clusterfuck in the works.

I don't know how fucked up this is.

I'm a fucking villager, and yeah, you were right, I pulled out a ballsy move. :( Shit.

Guess you get to die tommorrow to prove it.

[Crim]

We have fucked it up.

Seems to me, we got ourselves a one-for-one. Your reveal has betrayed your wolfiness.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE LYNCH NEON_CHAOS

doesn't matter if you're a villager. You have to pay the piper

[PurdueBrad]

WTF?!?! Neon...crap. Alan T I'm sorry I cast my vote for you now even though you didn't lose the lynch. I learned a bad lesson in trust.

[path12]

Oh man. Oh man. FUCK.

Sorry guys. This is a mjor clusterfuck in the works.

I don't know how fucked up this is.

I'm a fucking villager, and yeah, you were right, I pulled out a ballsy move. :( Shit.

So. You're a villager, and you put all of our roles at risk by claiming otherwise and we killed our seer instead of taking one for the team.

Guess I'm not voting DT tomorrow.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm in with DT on this.

Vote Neon Chaos for Thursday night.

[hoopsguy]

Sigh - so are there any good roles that are not out on the table at this point?

Sorry about that, RPI - will be interested in talking with you in post-game about how things went down as the deadline approached (assuming you were around for it).

[Passacaglia]

Wow, just checking in. Skimming, it seems like some crazy stuff happened. I'll be active tomorrow morning.

[molson]

I don't know what happened, but it was clearly eventful

[DaddyTorgo]

vote me if you want everyone. I'll duke the lynch onto neon, that way we at least get the benefit of using my power before the wolves munch on me, as they now know that i'm a trusted role.

not sure why that'd necessarily be better than just voting neon...but I guess it would be if the wolves left me alive, then you'd all have a reason to trust me.

[Crim]

Seems to me, we got ourselves a one-for-one. Your reveal has betrayed your wolfiness.

And... I'm still late to the party! Thought I'd be the first to gloat over your impending noosefulness, but I see I've been bested again!

[Neon_Chaos]

This has been a catastrophe of epic proportions. Crap. :(

I wouldn't hold it against you guys to vote for me. But I'm a villager and I pulled off one heck of ballsy move... but apparently it backfired. Looks like I'm a dead man tomorrow. :(

Jeez.

At least look into the fact that I do have protection against the Wolves. Heck, I'll even pass it tomorrow night to anyone who wants it, before I die.

[hoopsguy]

Neon, let me know how that scan turns out :)

[st.cronin]

This has been a catastrophe of epic proportions.

That's an understatement.

[DaddyTorgo]

This has been a catastrophe of epic proportions. Crap. :(

I wouldn't hold it against you guys to vote for me. But I'm a villager and I pulled off one heck of ballsy move... but apparently it backfired. Looks like I'm a dead man tomorrow. :(

Jeez.

At least look into the fact that I do have protection against the Wolves. Heck, I'll even pass it tomorrow night to anyone who wants it, before I die.

dude. You didn't pull a ballsy move. A ballsy move would be to claim to be the duke or something. Not to claim to be the most powerful good-role in the game. At least choose a less-powerful role...or better yet...take one for the team. We've all done it. There's no shame in it.

Either you're a wolf, or you're about to learn your lesson though.

[Lathum]

The night goes by slowly with images of RPIFan dying fresh in your minds. When you wake up the next morning and go to the bar you look around and realize everyone is still here.

You all seem a bit confused, maybe this is a positive turn of events.

Day 2 has begun. Deadline 10:30 PM EST

[Crim]

vote me if you want everyone. I'll duke the lynch onto neon, that way we at least get the benefit of using my power before the wolves munch on me, as they now know that i'm a trusted role.

not sure why that'd necessarily be better than just voting neon...but I guess it would be if the wolves left me alive, then you'd all have a reason to trust me.

I like it. You'll prove you're a human, Neon dies, and actually once your power is used, there's no point in the wolves killing you, right?

VOTE DADDY TORGO (cuz he said to!)

[MrBug708]

Was an item used? I would imagine we would have seen something. I guess the wolves lie in wait then

[DaddyTorgo]

I vote it's not positive and RendeR was the evil convert and has been converted.

And we're in a bad bad way

[Telle]

Wow.. skimming quickly to catch up.. looks like there's just one thing to do:

VOTE NEON_CHAOS

[hoopsguy]

ITEMS

Throughout the game there are items. If you choose to use an item you must PM me prior to the deadline. You may pass an item to another player by sending me a PM. All items are a 1 time use only and will be removed from the game after use. New items may be introduced or added as the game moves allong

I don't see anything in there that suggests that a wolf could not have an item - the precedent certainly suggests that they can start with items in these types of games. Plus we would have to leave you alive to pass the item - it is a stone-cold lock that the wolves would not take you out in these game even if you were a villager because of the situation.

[DaddyTorgo]

I like it. You'll prove you're a human, Neon dies, and actually once your power is used, there's no point in the wolves killing you, right?

VOTE DADDY TORGO (cuz he said to!)


well there'd be a point to them killing me because i'm cleared at that point, but I wouldn't think it's likely to happen. And it seems more fun than just voting neon, lynching him, and having the wolves night-kill me without using my ability.

either way

[Alan T]

So Neon likely was the convert as someone else (Forget who) suggested.. and they attacked him last night thinking he was the seer and ended up converting him.

[Crim]

conversion?

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm alan...that could be it.

either way...neon dies

[st.cronin]

I want to hear from Neon if anything happened last night.

[hoopsguy]

I like it. You'll prove you're a human, Neon dies, and actually once your power is used, there's no point in the wolves killing you, right?

VOTE DADDY TORGO (cuz he said to!)

Well, at that point DT becomes fully trusted and that is normally something wolves don't like.

I'm fine with this plan, but I'll hold off on the vote until a few more people have the opportunity to share "night phase" information.

Also, I'm going to be incommunicado tomorrow during the day as I won't have access from about 8AM EST until shortly before deadline. After that I should have normal availability the rest of the way.

[EagleFan]

Vote DaddyTorgo

[Neon_Chaos]

Guys, I didn't use the serving tray.

I am NOT the convert. The Bodyguard must have successfully blocked the attack.

I have the Golf Club and the Serving Tray now.

You guys can feel free to lynch me. I'll probably pass these along to whoever wants it. :(

[st.cronin]

Even if Neon is the convert, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) bodyguard block
2) his tray did something useful

I'm having a hard time imagining the wolves NOT going after Neon last night, BUT in the last game Barkeep described going after Lathum the day he revealed as a "ballsy play" so there may be some people who see it differently.

At any rate I'd like to hear from Neon about his night before casting my vote.

[MrBug708]

vote me if you want everyone. I'll duke the lynch onto neon, that way we at least get the benefit of using my power before the wolves munch on me, as they now know that i'm a trusted role.

not sure why that'd necessarily be better than just voting neon...but I guess it would be if the wolves left me alive, then you'd all have a reason to trust me.

Not a bad idea. If you are telling the truth you've outed yourself. If we vote you, you can prove your powers by voting out NC and you've become a friend to the villagers for a bit. You're obviously a person of interest now too, like NC was and it bit him in the ass.

A few possibilies

1) We all vote for NC
a)He's a wolf, yay for us
b)He's a villegar, we've reduced our numbers again
**********This is where it gets fun***************
2) We all vote for Daddy Torgo
a)He is who he says he is and changes votes to NC.
b)He's lying as well and we've killed a wolf
3) We vote for someone else which I don't think is an option

Now, I like #2 myself. Say DaddyTorgo is also lying and he's a wolf. We basically killed another villager (NC) by voting for him and have no way to prove that Torgo is who he says he is. He's already saying he's a certain character so it's kind of out there already. We have nothing to lose by voting for DT because if he's telling the truth we still kill NC. If he's lying he gets lynched himself and we can all at least vote for Neon the next day.

I'm not saying I think Neon is innocent. He lied and obviously got busted for it big time but now we can someone else for sure in daddy torgo and we could possibly still find out who NC is...

[EagleFan]

What is "night phase" information?

Sorry, still trying to learn as I go. I guess it's fitting this is at a golf course as that is my eternal mantra while playing (or attempting to play) golf.

[Crim]

So Neon likely was the convert as someone else (Forget who) suggested.. and they attacked him last night thinking he was the seer and ended up converting him.

Oh. this makes more snese than what I was thinking. I just thought he was a wolf, but it would make more sense your way. Since (as I understand it) the wolves would have to put their night kill PM in before knowing thte results of RPI's lynching, they wouldn't have known that Neon wan't the seer.

Kind of a good play then, by N-C, if ya think about it. As the Goth, he knew the wolves' identltiy, so he'd be able to pretend-scan good players, and build some trust. Even after the wolves converted him, he could still play the same fake role, never letting on that he had secret hair in secret places.

I conclude that Neon DID make a ballsy move, but not in a villager-friendly way. In a weird sense, us lynching the seer saved us from Neon possibly getting a chance to work against us for a few more days, I'm thinking.

[MrBug708]

Even if Neon is the convert, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) bodyguard block
2) his tray did something useful

I'm having a hard time imagining the wolves NOT going after Neon last night, BUT in the last game Barkeep described going after Lathum the day he revealed as a "ballsy play" so there may be some people who see it differently.

At any rate I'd like to hear from Neon about his night before casting my vote.

What if RPI was the target and we killed him anyways in a lynch?

[st.cronin]

Guys, I didn't use the serving tray.

I am NOT the convert. The Bodyguard must have successfully blocked the attack.

I have the Golf Club and the Serving Tray now.

You guys can feel free to lynch me. I'll probably pass these along to whoever wants it. :(

Well, that's not convincing.

vote Neon_Chaos
vote nightfall

[MrBug708]

Not a bad idea. If you are telling the truth you've outed yourself. If we vote you, you can prove your powers by voting out NC and you've become a friend to the villagers for a bit. You're obviously a person of interest now too, like NC was and it bit him in the ass.

A few possibilies

1) We all vote for NC
a)He's a wolf, yay for us
b)He's a villegar, we've reduced our numbers again
**********This is where it gets fun***************
2) We all vote for Daddy Torgo
a)He is who he says he is and changes votes to NC.
b)He's lying as well and we've killed a wolf
3) We vote for someone else which I don't think is an option

Now, I like #2 myself. Say DaddyTorgo is also lying and he's a wolf. We basically killed another villager (NC) by voting for him and have no way to prove that Torgo is who he says he is. He's already saying he's a certain character so it's kind of out there already. We have nothing to lose by voting for DT because if he's telling the truth we still kill NC. If he's lying he gets lynched himself and we can all at least vote for Neon the next day.

I'm not saying I think Neon is innocent. He lied and obviously got busted for it big time but now we can someone else for sure in daddy torgo and we could possibly still find out who NC is...

stupid near the bottom post

[MrBug708]

vote - daddytorgo

Use your powers before you're eventually eaten

[EagleFan]

If DT was a wolf I'm not sure that he would be asking us to vote him out,unless that whole reverse psychology comes into play and then he would think that we wouldn't but if we were thinking that then we wouldn't which would be just what he wanted which means that.... uh, nevermind... :)

[st.cronin]

I would rather DT save his ability. It may be needed later.

[Neon_Chaos]

Oh. this makes more snese than what I was thinking. I just thought he was a wolf, but it would make more sense your way. Since (as I understand it) the wolves would have to put their night kill PM in before knowing thte results of RPI's lynching, they wouldn't have known that Neon wan't the seer.

Kind of a good play then, by N-C, if ya think about it. As the Goth, he knew the wolves' identltiy, so he'd be able to pretend-scan good players, and build some trust. Even after the wolves converted him, he could still play the same fake role, never letting on that he had secret hair in secret places.

I conclude that Neon DID make a ballsy move, but not in a villager-friendly way. In a weird sense, us lynching the seer saved us from Neon possibly getting a chance to work against us for a few more days, I'm thinking.

I wish I WERE the convert. I'd be all smug right now.

As it is, I have to anti-wolf items, and everyone is planning to lynch or kill me tomorrow. At least let me pass them to someone.

[hoopsguy]

If DT was a wolf I'm not sure that he would be asking us to vote him out,unless that whole reverse psychology comes into play and then he would think that we wouldn't but if we were thinking that then we wouldn't which would be just what he wanted which means that.... uh, nevermind... :)

Welcome to Hollywood.


Err, welcome to Werewolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd rather save it too cronin, but i'm outed now, thanks to my boneheadedness, so might as well use it fore the wolves kill me.

[MrBug708]

If DT was a wolf I'm not sure that he would be asking us to vote him out,unless that whole reverse psychology comes into play and then he would think that we wouldn't but if we were thinking that then we wouldn't which would be just what he wanted which means that.... uh, nevermind... :)

*shrugs* I might be misguided in the logic, but I'm assuming he'd just figured that we'd all be up in arms and vote for NC just because he lied.

[st.cronin]

i'd rather save it too cronin, but i'm outed now, thanks to my boneheadedness, so might as well use it fore the wolves kill me.

There's still a bodyguard out there, and I don't think anybody really suspects you. I don't see the point in voting for you.

If somebody else IS the club member, they should move the vote off Neon on to you.

[MrBug708]

There's still a bodyguard out there, and I don't think anybody really suspects you. I don't see the point in voting for you.

If somebody else IS the club member, they should move the vote off Neon on to you.

Valid point. I guess the wolves would be gunning for DT anyways, if not tonight then tomorrow night

[path12]

I vote it's not positive and RendeR was the evil convert and has been converted.

And we're in a bad bad way

Huh? Why Render?

[Crim]

I wish I WERE the convert. I'd be all smug right now.

As it is, I have to anti-wolf items, and everyone is planning to lynch or kill me tomorrow. At least let me pass them to someone.

Tell ya what. You're a villager? Okee, you don't need our permission, go ahead and pass them to whoever among us you deem most trustworthy. We'll go ahead and kill ya, but at least the items are safe.

But, as a wolf, I'm guessing you're either not passing them (don't wanna help the village) or, more likely, you'll just pass them to one of your wolf pals, hoping to stir up confusion (while still not helping the village). Either way, we kill ya (or, more accurately, DT kills ya).

Another option, you (wolf) pass one item to a villegar, hoping to cast aspersions onto him/her.

[DaddyTorgo]

Huh? Why Render?

I thought someone mentioned that idea earlier as I was catching up on stuff that I missed in the early-evening. But maybe it was neon that brought it up?

[Crim]

note:

if you possess a golf club or a serving tray it will be automaticaly activated, you do not need to submit an order to use those items

I still have my item. It's a 25% chance to save me from the wolves. I'm not using it tonight, guys. Will reserve it for tomorrow.

Another lie.

[st.cronin]

Good catch, Crim.

[Neon_Chaos]

Tell ya what. You're a villager? Okee, you don't need our permission, go ahead and pass them to whoever among us you deem most trustworthy. We'll go ahead and kill ya, but at least the items are safe.

But, as a wolf, I'm guessing you're either not passing them (don't wanna help the village) or, more likely, you'll just pass them to one of your wolf pals, hoping to stir up confusion (while still not helping the village). Either way, we kill ya (or, more accurately, DT kills ya).

Another option, you (wolf) pass one item to a villegar, hoping to cast aspersions onto him/her.

Man. I screw up ONE time, and you're all so damn hard on me.

Are we allowed to pass items before we die, though?

[DaddyTorgo]

Another lie.

nice catch crim

[MrBug708]

It could just be ignorance though. I didn't realize it either and obviously NC is not a good player this time around

Ok, I'm done defending NC, I don't want to be guilty by association

[st.cronin]

MrBug you are not allowed to edit posts in werewolf.

[MrBug708]

No? Ok...

[Neon_Chaos]

Another lie.

i actually forgot that it's was a perpetual item. wow, you really are on my case now. I wish you were here earlier today when all the shit was hitting the fan.

I can pass the two items to whoever (granted if i can pass them before i get lynched/killed).

Lathum, can I pass items out before I die?

[EagleFan]

i actually forgot that it's was a perpetual item. wow, you really are on my case now. I wish you were here earlier today when all the shit was hitting the fan.

I can pass the two items to whoever (granted if i can pass them before i get lynched/killed).

Lathum, can I pass items out before I die?

Two items?

[path12]

Hmmm. Neon is obviously my choice, but I think DT has an interesting argument about his role -- if we can at least get him cleared by him using his power (which if he holds on to will certainly make him a big target for the wolves) that gives us at least the beginning of some trust.

Subject to change.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[MrBug708]

Hmmm

[Neon_Chaos]

Two items?

I have the serving tray, that's from the start.

Last night, someone passed me the golf club.

BTW.

Does that mean that the serving tray did it's job last night, perhaps? I got not PM about being attacked. The only one I got from Lathum was receiving the golf club.

[Crim]

Alan said he gave the gold club to Neon. I can't imagine Lathum starting the game with two defensive items in enemy hands, so I tend to put some trust in Alan for this.

[MrBug708]

Alan said he gave the gold club to Neon. I can't imagine Lathum starting the game with two defensive items in enemy hands, so I tend to put some trust in Alan for this.

That makes the most sense IMO.

[st.cronin]

Alan said he gave the gold club to Neon. I can't imagine Lathum starting the game with two defensive items in enemy hands, so I tend to put some trust in Alan for this.

I imagine it being totally random. I have no reason not to trust Alan, but that doesn't seem like a good reason TO trust him.

[Crim]

So the bodyguard better keep my ass protected.

I still have my item. It's a 25% chance to save me from the wolves. I'm not using it tonight, guys. Will reserve it for tomorrow.

God, I hope not. With the BG busy keeping my ass safe...

well, at least we'll know if a conversion occurs, right?

True. But the hidden convert wouldn't have an item to help block wolf attacks now, would he?

So Neon likely was the convert as someone else (Forget who) suggested.. and they attacked him last night thinking he was the seer and ended up converting him.

Umm, just thinking out loud...

Neon was almost certainly protected by the BG, though, right? I mean, we had no counter-reveal, thus no reason to think he was lying. Maybe if he was the Gothic, and wolves did come for him, and the BG protected him, so no conversion. He gets lynched tonight anyway, so maybe the point is moot.

For that matter, even if Neon really is a (tragically unwise) villager, we'd still have gotten the same morning-after message from Lathum, right? Wouldn't the BG have protected him?

Actually, now I'm thinking about it, as the convert, why would Neon be calling multiple times for BG protection? This just results in a wasted night-kill attempt for the wolves, right? It would make more sense to me if Neon is a wolf, than if he were the convert...


Just spit-balling, here. Feel free to poke holes/ridicule as you see fit.

[Crim]

I imagine it being totally random. I have no reason not to trust Alan, but that doesn't seem like a good reason TO trust him.

Sure, as far as that goes, it prolly is random. But at 4ish bad guys vs 16ish good guys, totally random means it's less likely that 2 bad guys got items. That's all I meant, not that Lathum was handpicking item recipients.

[st.cronin]

Crim, I think a bodyguard block is certainly possible - on Neon, or on somebody else. But I don't think it really changes our best play today, which is lynching Neon. If the bodyguard recognized the wolf, he can wait a day to come forward.

[st.cronin]

Sure, as far as that goes, it prolly is random. But at 4ish bad guys vs 16ish good guys, totally random means it's less likely that 2 bad guys got items. That's all I meant, not that Lathum was handpicking item recipients.

You're also assuming that Neon does, in fact, have the serving tray. Its possible he was lying about that.

[Neon_Chaos]

Umm, just thinking out loud...

Neon was almost certainly protected by the BG, though, right? I mean, we had no counter-reveal, thus no reason to think he was lying. Maybe if he was the Gothic, and wolves did come for him, and the BG protected him, so no conversion. He gets lynched tonight anyway, so maybe the point is moot.

For that matter, even if Neon really is a (tragically unwise) villager, we'd still have gotten the same morning-after message from Lathum, right? Wouldn't the BG have protected him?

Actually, now I'm thinking about it, as the convert, why would Neon be calling multiple times for BG protection? This just results in a wasted night-kill attempt for the wolves, right? It would make more sense to me if Neon is a wolf, than if he were the convert...


Just spit-balling, here. Feel free to poke holes/ridicule as you see fit.

I know there's no way of defending myself or my status as a villager, and almost everyone is basically resigned that I should probably die within the day. :(

What I did was balls to the walls and stupid... but hey, I didn't want to go out on day 1.

Man. I never realized how much I truly suck at this game. Bah. I probably won't be able to convince anyone to look elsewhere.

Good luck guys!

[Neon_Chaos]

You're also assuming that Neon does, in fact, have the serving tray. Its possible he was lying about that.

Why the hell would I lie about having the tray!?

[st.cronin]

Why the hell would I lie about having the tray!?

Beats me, I can't really figure out your play at all. You were obviously lying about being the seer, which makes everything you've said somewhat suspect.

[Crim]

Beats me, I can't really figure out your play at all. You were obviously lying about being the seer, which makes everything you've said somewhat suspect.

what he said.

[hoopsguy]

Well, a lie about the serving tray could serve as a reason that the wolves would go in another direction rather than coming after one of their own.

And it is going to be hard to come up with another candidate without night information that creates a more appealing target. It would certainly be frustrating if Neon ends up being pro-country-club, but that seems hard to fathom after Day 1.

[EagleFan]

Actually, now I'm thinking about it, as the convert, why would Neon be calling multiple times for BG protection? This just results in a wasted night-kill attempt for the wolves, right? It would make more sense to me if Neon is a wolf, than if he were the convert...


Does the person who is the BG get revealed to the wolves if they attack a "protected" person? If so, that could be the motivation, to out the BG to the wolves.

If this is the case then it would be a great play for him if he were the convert as the BG protects him, the wolves find out the BG and get him next and then go after Neon still thinking he is the seer and he gets converted after getting the BG outed.

Okay, maybe I am thinking way too much. Of course, this is all moot if the wolves can't discover the BG when he defends.

[st.cronin]

Does the person who is the BG get revealed to the wolves if they attack a "protected" person? If so, that could be the motivation, to out the BG to the wolves.

If this is the case then it would be a great play for him if he were the convert as the BG protects him, the wolves find out the BG and get him next and then go after Neon still thinking he is the seer and he gets converted after getting the BG outed.

Okay, maybe I am thinking way too much. Of course, this is all moot if the wolves can't discover the BG when he defends.

It varies from game to game, I didn't see it spelled out in the rules. No matter what, unless the bodyguard guarded himself last night AND recognized a wolf, he should stay silent for today.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, great start to the game, Matt.

This has happened once or twice before--game starts at the perfectly awful time for me (about two hours after I leave for work), and then something gets in the way all day (such as other job or, in today's case, Internet issues) where I can't check in. I knew the game might start today, but I didn;t think we would have a deadline so soon. Ugh. Sorry, folks.

I am still reading through the thread and catching up. I'll respond to things as I go along. Fortunately, already saw I didn't get lynched, so I know I won't be posting in vain.

And, BTW, smooth nailing the seer on day one. :confused:

[Chief Rum]

Oh, I'm a villager.

[Chief Rum]

I see that of the folks who haven't checked in, most are newbies or returnees who I don't want to vote on Day 1, except Chief Rum.

VOTE CHIEF RUM

You're just voting for me because our wolf experience in the last game has given you a heightened sense of "Chief Rum is a wolf"-itis. :)

It's just Munchausen, though. I'm not a wolf. Of course, I'm not the smooth mover who lasted to the end of that game, am I?

[Chief Rum]

Pass, I'm pretty sure that I recall Rum saying the start time was tough for him (double shift, or something like that?) - it resonated because I knew I was going to have some timing issues with this game as well. For better or worse, I decided to leave him out of voting consideration today because of that.

Disclaimer - this thread should not be construed as any kind of defense of Chief Rum, other than to suggest that I've paid attention to previous posts in this thread. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Batteries not included. Voting for Hoopsguy as a result of this post may cause lung disease.

Yes, my usual schedule will apply. Mondays and Tuesdays are awful (two job days). This Saturday, because of a scheduling quirk (rare OT shift), I have another two day.

Otherwise, I am generally not available in the daytime hours (FOFC blocked at work), and then post mucho at night.

[Chief Rum]

Voting CR is unwise. He is, in my opinion, the best villager around.

Unvote Telle
Vote Pass

And I think Pass agrees, or at least thinks similarly. I also don't like the RPI voting since the man's just come back to WW. Let him make Day 2 at least.

Well, heck, thanks, BK! You're pretty damn good yourself.

As of page three, though, not ready to follow on Pass. I think he's just following a bad gut instinct.

[Chief Rum]

Just home from tilling the fields, like all good villegars should do. And if you mofos vote me off the first night, I am totally going to turn into a wolf and rip your asses up.

Er... perhaps I've said too much.

lol...newbie humor. What newbie doesn't realize is such humor is often turned into a Day One reason to lynch, with little else to go on.

Well, at least you survived Day One, MrDNA.

[Chief Rum]

Last time I played, CR was barely around the first 3/4 of the game, so no one suspected him. He was a wolf. It's more likely that his schedule is the consistent thing, rather than the role, but it's something I'll keep in mind.

Heh, which game was that? I don't play that way on purpose, although, as you note, sometimes the schedule forces me into that.

If it makes you feel any better, lately I seem to have been targeted early as a wolf by people who want to clear me, so I have been unveiled by early scans. So if I am around after Day Three, I am probably good. :)

[Chief Rum]

I agree with your statement about RPI. As for CR, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not over here screaming for his lynching or anything. Anyway, I always thought the consensus was that hoops was the best villager around.

There are several candidates for best villager in my mind. Hoops is one. So is Barkeep. And st.cronin. Even Blade, when he can be trusted. Many others I haven't mentioned. I think I play adequately, but I would put those ahead of me, too.

[Chief Rum]

You've mentioned this in this game and earlier games and I just don't see it. Can you delve a little deeper into why you believe this?

Not sure yet if this blossomed into a full discussion, but I tend to agree with cronin on this. I fully expect votes to hop around on Day One. We don't know much. It doesn't take much for us to switch. Without much evidence, there isn't much to root us to anything except instinct, which we all know is eminently fallible.

That said, I am fully willing to look back for (and have found) evidence of wolfish tendencies in the vote later in the game. By itself, the switching means nothing. But it can have much more meaning as we get to know better who is good and who isn't.

[st.cronin]

I was reading back through the thread, and found that Neon made the following votes:

RPI-Fan
AlanT
Barkeep

On the theory that Neon was the convert trying to get the wolves attention, that would make all those players good. We already know RPI is good, but if Neon is revealed as the goth I'll consider both Alan and BK cleared.

[st.cronin]

Dola

He talked about voting for Crim, but never did.

[Chief Rum]

Hrm.... are you obnoxious, self important, assinine and generally annoying?



No...didn't think so.

I'm jsut carrying on our seemingly illogical finger pointing at one another that tends to happen in every game. Someome has gotta get strung up, or in this game, "Driver-ed where it hurts", why not you?

I sense someone needs to get to know cronin better. :p

[Chief Rum]

I briefly read through the thread, we are assuming four wolves? Is that normal, high, or low?

It varies, but I know six to one wolf was thrown out as a standard to run with in one "game setup" thread a while back, and I used it to good effect in my Major League game (which was much more balanced I think than my Ripper game).

Not sure if that's conventional wisdom. I like Alan's theory (I think it was Alan's) that there are four wolves with the fifth "sympathizer" around. I wouldn't be shocked at five plus a sympathizer, though. Would be surprised at just three wolves or at seven.

[Chief Rum]

Oh man. Oh man. FUCK.

Sorry guys. This is a mjor clusterfuck in the works.

I don't know how fucked up this is.

I'm a fucking villager, and yeah, you were right, I pulled out a ballsy move. :( Shit.

L...M...A...OFF!

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Chief Rum]

Even if Neon is the convert, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) bodyguard block
2) his tray did something useful

I'm having a hard time imagining the wolves NOT going after Neon last night, BUT in the last game Barkeep described going after Lathum the day he revealed as a "ballsy play" so there may be some people who see it differently.

At any rate I'd like to hear from Neon about his night before casting my vote.

Neon signed his own death warrant. Why would the wolves try to kill someone who is going to get lynched the next day? And even if he's the convert, what's the point in wasting the kill on him? Converted or not, he gets lynched tomorrow.

Unless you're planning on campaigning to save him. In which case, I'll probably vote for you the next day after that. Sorry, this is open and close.

[Chief Rum]

Not a bad idea. If you are telling the truth you've outed yourself. If we vote you, you can prove your powers by voting out NC and you've become a friend to the villagers for a bit. You're obviously a person of interest now too, like NC was and it bit him in the ass.

A few possibilies

1) We all vote for NC
a)He's a wolf, yay for us
b)He's a villegar, we've reduced our numbers again
**********This is where it gets fun***************
2) We all vote for Daddy Torgo
a)He is who he says he is and changes votes to NC.
b)He's lying as well and we've killed a wolf
3) We vote for someone else which I don't think is an option

Now, I like #2 myself. Say DaddyTorgo is also lying and he's a wolf. We basically killed another villager (NC) by voting for him and have no way to prove that Torgo is who he says he is. He's already saying he's a certain character so it's kind of out there already. We have nothing to lose by voting for DT because if he's telling the truth we still kill NC. If he's lying he gets lynched himself and we can all at least vote for Neon the next day.

I'm not saying I think Neon is innocent. He lied and obviously got busted for it big time but now we can someone else for sure in daddy torgo and we could possibly still find out who NC is...

Naw, I would rather not test DT right now. Let the wolves wonder if he's really the duke or not for another day. Let's not screw around, and risk not having NC lynched.

[Chief Rum]

Another lie.

Actually that reads more like misunderstanding the rules than a lie. Not that it matters--it doesn't change my opinion on voting for NC one bit.

[Alan T]

There was quite alot of discussion after I went to bed last night. One thing that was brought up that I want to caution against...

Just because players pass items does not mean you should build trust into them. I fully realize that as of right now it sounds like I was the only such player who passed an item, so in a sense I am advising caution against adding trust for myself right now for my passing of the club.

In the last game I was in with items similar to this one, I was a wolf that time and we often passed items in an attempt to gain trust and for the most part it worked to some extent. So I would caution against putting too much trust into someone just for them having passed an item to you.

As for a comment made by St.Cronin regarding whom he trusts based on Neon's votes.. Cronin mentioned myself, Crim and Barkeep. I don't think I fully extend my trust for that reason just yet. On day 1 wolves occasionally vote for other wolves as a way to seperate themselves and in the case one is found later in the game the other can point to that vote as a way to gain some trust. Day 1 votes for the most part are usually harmless and an easy place for them to throw away a vote on another wolf.

I would probably have extended trust to RPI due to Neon putting a third vote on him while no one else had more than 1, thus endagering RPI a bit in the vote. I don't think if I was in someone else's shoes that I would have extended trust to myself due to Neon voting for me (and putting a 1st vote on me but not really putting me at risk), nor do I feel I have put a ton more trust into Barkeep due to Neon's relatively harmless vote on him.

Crim is a different story however, Neon was actively campaigning to try to get people to move to Crim at the end due to his "inactivity". Part of this was to save his own skin, however you have to imagine that he wouldn't want to actively put at risk another wolf just to save himself there. So I feel pretty good right now about Crim being a villager.

[Barkeep49]

nor do I feel I have put a ton more trust into Barkeep due to Neon's relatively harmless vote on him.

Just to clarify I voted for Neon before he voted for me.

[hoopsguy]

Welcome to the party, Chief. I'm going to have to play in your mode for one day, as I won't have Net access for most of today. So I'll get the vote in now.

VOTE NEON_CHAOS

[Barkeep49]

I think this whole anti-Neon thing is a waste of time and counter productive. The simplest solution is that he is a villager, attempted a ballsy move and it backfired. The whole move was completely unnecessary, because as I pointed out yesterday, he could have easily forced a no lynch. As we all know, the only person whose role you (as a villager) you can be confident of is your own. Thus if Neon is a villager he should try and prevent himself from getting killed 100% of the time, since there is a 0% chance that he's a wolf, and SOME % chance that someone else is a wolf. It is ENTIRELY villagerish to try and save yourself.

Anyhow, let's say that RPI-Fan turns out to be anything but the valet. Here's what I see happening at night:
1. The seer scans Neon, finds out Neon is good. I've already talked about this.
More importantly is what happens next:
2. The BG likely protects Neon, the wolves likely attack him (in hopes that the BG tries to get fancy like Lathum did last game).
3. The BG goes elsewhere (gets fancy), wolves still attack Neon, there's a 25% chance Neon fends them off by himself.

I think the most likely outcome of the reveal is no night kill, that's good for us. If he WAS the convert, he would have to know he's begging to be protected by his move and thus unlikely to convert. Furthermore, when he's still around on Day 3 he'll likely draw suspicion.

I am all for the lynch DT in order to prove his goodness, but not at the expense of Neon.

[Barkeep49]

It would certainly be frustrating if Neon ends up being pro-country-club, but that seems hard to fathom after Day 1.
I hope you change your reasoning after my last post. Just because it had a bad out come doesn't mean it was a bad guy play.

[Alan T]

I think this whole anti-Neon thing is a waste of time and counter productive. The simplest solution is that he is a villager, attempted a ballsy move and it backfired. The whole move was completely unnecessary, because as I pointed out yesterday, he could have easily forced a no lynch. As we all know, the only person whose role you (as a villager) you can be confident of is your own. Thus if Neon is a villager he should try and prevent himself from getting killed 100% of the time, since there is a 0% chance that he's a wolf, and SOME % chance that someone else is a wolf. It is ENTIRELY villagerish to try and save yourself.

Anyhow, let's say that RPI-Fan turns out to be anything but the valet. Here's what I see happening at night:
1. The seer scans Neon, finds out Neon is good. I've already talked about this.
More importantly is what happens next:
2. The BG likely protects Neon, the wolves likely attack him (in hopes that the BG tries to get fancy like Lathum did last game).
3. The BG goes elsewhere (gets fancy), wolves still attack Neon, there's a 25% chance Neon fends them off by himself.

I think the most likely outcome of the reveal is no night kill, that's good for us. If he WAS the convert, he would have to know he's begging to be protected by his move and thus unlikely to convert. Furthermore, when he's still around on Day 3 he'll likely draw suspicion.

I am all for the lynch DT in order to prove his goodness, but not at the expense of Neon.


I still say this is the worst possible move ever. If I was the seer and Neon said he was, I would know he was lying, assume he was bad and not even waste a scan on him. Then out him at the proper time (hopefully when I had another wolf in the bag). Thus I might go down due to people beliving the lier over me, but at least you would get a 2 for 1.

No reason to scan a wolf to make sure when you know they lied about something that they flat out shouldn't have lied about just to save their own neck.

[Alan T]

I think we have to just go with occam's razor here. The simplest explanation was that Neon is bad, saw he was about to get lynched (or felt he was with little time to go), came out with a fake reveal that had the most upside for him (would likely save his life and/or out the real seer), and then he got busted that night for his lie.

I'm not ready to throw Barkeep into the distrust pile just yet, but his play here is really making me weary of him... If by some reason Neon was good, and really made a very lousy play here (one that will earn my day 1 vote for a while for him in future games), the only people who would know such are the wolves.

[PurdueBrad]

I should be on and off today, although last night was disheartening. I'm staying on Neon for my vote because I guess I would rather trust DT than force him to use his dukeliness (not a word but it sounds good) now. There hasn't been another reveal so I would tend to believe him (although I did believe Neon). If the BG can protect him, we can keep him around.

[PurdueBrad]

I should be on and off today, although last night was disheartening. I'm staying on Neon for my vote because I guess I would rather trust DT than force him to use his dukeliness (not a word but it sounds good) now. There hasn't been another reveal so I would tend to believe him (although I did believe Neon). If the BG can protect him, we can keep him around.

[PurdueBrad]

I should be on and off today, although last night was disheartening. I'm staying on Neon for my vote because I guess I would rather trust DT than force him to use his dukeliness (not a word but it sounds good) now. There hasn't been another reveal so I would tend to believe him (although I did believe Neon). If the BG can protect him, we can keep him around.

[PurdueBrad]

Sorry for the triple post, work internet acting crazy as hell!

[Alan T]

As for whether or not to trust DT.. I've gone back and forth in my head on this one...

In the end, I don't feel a huge need to push a vote on DT just to prove himself here. I think having the vote split between neon and DT welcomes too many unwanted things from happening (such as late vote switches that force a tie and no lynch). With DT claiming to be the Duke, if he isn't, the real Duke can at any point choose to Duke DT for his lie... So I don't really see someone making a fake reveal as the duke knowing full well the punishment for such a crime.

We should all just vote Neon and be done with him.

[Alan T]

Sorry, to clarify the first line in my last post... What I intended to say was "As for whether or not to prove DT's story", not "As for whether or not to trust DT".. As the rest of the post you can see what I intended in my post there. Basically I feel we need to just assume trust in DT knowing if he is lying, he chose the wrong role to lie about.

[RendeR]

updated vote count

Neon_Chaos- 3 AlanT (131), Barkeep (162), Oliegirl (199)
St.Cronin- 2 RenderR (95), Molson (148)
RPI-Fan- 2 Hoopsguy (82), Telle (107),
Barkeep -2 MrBug (179), Neon Chaos (193)
RenderR- 1 St.Cronin (87)
ChiefRum- 1 Passacaglia (115)
Crim- 1 Path12 (129)
EagleFan-1 RaidersArmy (140)
MrDNA- 1 ArlingtonColt
AlanT 1 MrDNA (143),
HoopsGuy -1 EagleFan (167),

sorry for the small mistakes. I had my FF draft for my money league so I was multi tasking.

That and there is way more movement then the usual day 1


Ok Neon, here is your chance to explain yourself and actually earn some trust.

At this post at just after 10pm you were in teh lead with 3 votes. Three other players have 2 each, you voted for one of them.

Now, explain to me how you thought creating the whole LIE about being the seer was your choice, knowing that there is no real way in hell you'd survive day 2, when you could simply have moved your vote to cronin or RPI-fan, forced a tie and gotten away with no lynch.

Explain that to my satisfaction and I might support letting you live another day.

[RendeR]

I think this whole anti-Neon thing is a waste of time and counter productive. The simplest solution is that he is a villager, attempted a ballsy move and it backfired. The whole move was completely unnecessary, because as I pointed out yesterday, he could have easily forced a no lynch. As we all know, the only person whose role you (as a villager) you can be confident of is your own. Thus if Neon is a villager he should try and prevent himself from getting killed 100% of the time, since there is a 0% chance that he's a wolf, and SOME % chance that someone else is a wolf. It is ENTIRELY villagerish to try and save yourself.

Anyhow, let's say that RPI-Fan turns out to be anything but the valet. Here's what I see happening at night:
1. The seer scans Neon, finds out Neon is good. I've already talked about this.
More importantly is what happens next:
2. The BG likely protects Neon, the wolves likely attack him (in hopes that the BG tries to get fancy like Lathum did last game).
3. The BG goes elsewhere (gets fancy), wolves still attack Neon, there's a 25% chance Neon fends them off by himself.

I think the most likely outcome of the reveal is no night kill, that's good for us. If he WAS the convert, he would have to know he's begging to be protected by his move and thus unlikely to convert. Furthermore, when he's still around on Day 3 he'll likely draw suspicion.

I am all for the lynch DT in order to prove his goodness, but not at the expense of Neon.

Can you offer ANY real evidence for the bolded lines BK? Where are you getting this trust from? Its totally out of line with everything we've seen from NC.

[DaddyTorgo]

i can certainly see your point alan. i simply put the whole "vote for me and i'll prove myself" thing out there as an option.

but you're right...the real duke could quite easily take care of me if i'm lying and be sure of getting a wolf, so i suppose you shouldn't worry too much.

as for barkeep...very very suspicious. especially because what was it...2 games ago i went back and forth with him over the need to "play %'s WW" where I was arguing against it (cuz it was me on the line and i knew i was good) and he was arguing for it (as a villager IIRC).

And now all of a sudden he's swapping his tune to try to protect Neon? When clearly the play that we need to make is to lynch Neon? Weird.

[Alan T]

Well my initial gut instinct regarding Barkeep's play is causing me to wonder what is happening.. I figure the following scenerios:

1) Barkeep and Neon are both good: If this was the case, it would just outright baffle me.. It in my opinion is a horrible play, and you have someone else who also is good defending it.. When all this play has done is cause us to waste two days and lose our seer.. I just can't fathom this scenerio being possible

2) Barkeep is good and Neon is bad: I think this is one of the top 2 most likely scenerios.. The Simplest explanation is Neon was close to being lynched, and threw stuff against the wall to see what would stick. I still don't have an explanation for Barkeep's play, but the only thing I could think is he is just trying too hard to find some different possible explanation here.

3) Barkeep is bad, Neon is good: This is the other scenerio that I think could have some legs. I don't think its the most likely scenerio, but perhaps #2. If Neon was good and Barkeep was bad, Barkeep would know that Neon was not a wolf, and thus must have some other explanation for it. The things going against this scenerio however in my mind is that Barkeep brought it up before we knew neon was lying, and also if Barkeep was a wolf, he wouldn't know for sure if Neon was the convert during this. I think the way this scenerio is possible is if Neon is good and Barkeep was actually the convert, and knew that Neon was neither the convert nor a wolf.

4) Both Barkeep and Neon are bad: I find this scenerio just as unlikely as #1.. If neon is busted and likely will get voted out day 2 and end up being bad, do you really come out and support him strongly like Barkeep is doing here? You just go with the flow, take your loss and mark it up as having gotten the seer in the process as a morale victory.


Out of those, I think #1 is most likely followed by #2.. If Neon ends up bad, I highly doubt Barkeep is bad also. If Neon is good, I'll have to really consider Barkeep's motivations here.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well my initial gut instinct regarding Barkeep's play is causing me to wonder what is happening.. I figure the following scenerios:

1) Barkeep and Neon are both good: If this was the case, it would just outright baffle me.. It in my opinion is a horrible play, and you have someone else who also is good defending it.. When all this play has done is cause us to waste two days and lose our seer.. I just can't fathom this scenerio being possible

2) Barkeep is good and Neon is bad: I think this is one of the top 2 most likely scenerios.. The Simplest explanation is Neon was close to being lynched, and threw stuff against the wall to see what would stick. I still don't have an explanation for Barkeep's play, but the only thing I could think is he is just trying too hard to find some different possible explanation here.

3) Barkeep is bad, Neon is good: This is the other scenerio that I think could have some legs. I don't think its the most likely scenerio, but perhaps #2. If Neon was good and Barkeep was bad, Barkeep would know that Neon was not a wolf, and thus must have some other explanation for it. The things going against this scenerio however in my mind is that Barkeep brought it up before we knew neon was lying, and also if Barkeep was a wolf, he wouldn't know for sure if Neon was the convert during this. I think the way this scenerio is possible is if Neon is good and Barkeep was actually the convert, and knew that Neon was neither the convert nor a wolf.

4) Both Barkeep and Neon are bad: I find this scenerio just as unlikely as #1.. If neon is busted and likely will get voted out day 2 and end up being bad, do you really come out and support him strongly like Barkeep is doing here? You just go with the flow, take your loss and mark it up as having gotten the seer in the process as a morale victory.


Out of those, I think #1 is most likely followed by #2.. If Neon ends up bad, I highly doubt Barkeep is bad also. If Neon is good, I'll have to really consider Barkeep's motivations here.

you and your wonderful knack for summarizing what's going on in my head.

if neon is bad i think it's very unlikely that barkeep is also bad.

but you honestly think #1 is more likely than #2? you think it's more likely neon is good t han neon being bad?

[Alan T]

Sorry, I'm having a hectic day at work, and typing long posts up here over the course of several different sessions.. You can read in my 4 points that I feel point #2 and point #3 are the most likely, I don't think scenerio #1 is very likely at all..

Sorry for the confusion, just one of those days for me. I include in scenerio #1 that i find it very unlikely that neon is good here.

[st.cronin]

As for a comment made by St.Cronin regarding whom he trusts based on Neon's votes.. Cronin mentioned myself, Crim and Barkeep. I don't think I fully extend my trust for that reason just yet. On day 1 wolves occasionally vote for other wolves as a way to seperate themselves and in the case one is found later in the game the other can point to that vote as a way to gain some trust. Day 1 votes for the most part are usually harmless and an easy place for them to throw away a vote on another wolf.

I would probably have extended trust to RPI due to Neon putting a third vote on him while no one else had more than 1, thus endagering RPI a bit in the vote. I don't think if I was in someone else's shoes that I would have extended trust to myself due to Neon voting for me (and putting a 1st vote on me but not really putting me at risk), nor do I feel I have put a ton more trust into Barkeep due to Neon's relatively harmless vote on him.

Crim is a different story however, Neon was actively campaigning to try to get people to move to Crim at the end due to his "inactivity". Part of this was to save his own skin, however you have to imagine that he wouldn't want to actively put at risk another wolf just to save himself there. So I feel pretty good right now about Crim being a villager.

I agree completely, IF NEON IS A WOLF. However, one theory under consideration is that Neon is the goth, and that his bizarre play was an attempt to transmit that fact to the wolves. If he is in fact the goth, I think it highly unlikely that he would have voted for a wolf. Under that scenario, I don't know how important it is that he talked about voting for (Chuck) Crim but didn't - it may or may not be meaningful.

[Crim]

1) Barkeep and Neon are both good: If this was the case, it would just outright baffle me.. It in my opinion is a horrible play, and you have someone else who also is good defending it.. When all this play has done is cause us to waste two days and lose our seer.. I just can't fathom this scenerio being possible

...

Out of those, I think #1 is most likely followed by #2.. If Neon ends up bad, I highly doubt Barkeep is bad also. If Neon is good, I'll have to really consider Barkeep's motivations here.

Alan, I do not understand your meaning here. It's "most likely" that Neon made this play as a villager, and that Barkeep is defending this terrible villager play as another villager?

I read the whole post, but I don't get your last paragraph at all.

[Crim]

Sorry, I'm having a hectic day at work, and typing long posts up here over the course of several different sessions.. You can read in my 4 points that I feel point #2 and point #3 are the most likely, I don't think scenerio #1 is very likely at all..

Sorry for the confusion, just one of those days for me. I include in scenerio #1 that i find it very unlikely that neon is good here.

Ah, okee. I retract my previous post. :)

[oliegirl]

Wow. Things went nuts after I went to bed. I can tell you that Neon is lying about being given the serving tray, because I have it. I received it in my original PM from Lathum, and didn't pass it to anyone last night, and it wasn't used.

I'm not sure if Neon is a wolf, or just tried something sneaky on day 1 without enough information and ended up in a really bad position...but either way, he screwed up big time and needs to pay...

VOTE NEON_CHAOS

I voted for him yesterday and stuck with my vote, and I'm doing the same today...it would take a huge mountain of evidence against someone else to make me change my vote at this point.

[Crim]

I'm having to leave in a few minutes for work, and won't be back on until well after deadline, so here's what I'm doing, and why:

I'm leaving my vote on Daddy Torgo. He claims to be the duke, and lynching him in order for him to use his power is the most sure-fire way to establish trust atm. I'd expect him then to kill Neon, as I believe that most of us agree that the fake seer reveal should result in immediate extinction.

I note that a few have voted instead for Neon directly, saying we should "save" DT's power... I may just be dense, but I don't see the advantage. If we have a chance to build a COT of even one, I say let's do it now, as DT seems a likely wolf-target anyway.

And with that, I am officially out until 14 hours or so from now!

[Lathum]

Lathum, can I pass items out before I die?

yes

[molson]

I think there's a crapload of trays out there.

I have one too.

[Alan T]

Wow. Things went nuts after I went to bed. I can tell you that Neon is lying about being given the serving tray, because I have it. I received it in my original PM from Lathum, and didn't pass it to anyone last night, and it wasn't used.

I'm not sure if Neon is a wolf, or just tried something sneaky on day 1 without enough information and ended up in a really bad position...but either way, he screwed up big time and needs to pay...

VOTE NEON_CHAOS

I voted for him yesterday and stuck with my vote, and I'm doing the same today...it would take a huge mountain of evidence against someone else to make me change my vote at this point.


I agree with your thoughts on Neon's allegiance, however my impression is that there could be multiple of the different item types out there. That wouldn't suprise me, and its not stated in the rules that there are only one of each.

Its easy enough to validate however if need be later on. I don't really want the person holding a golf club to come out and say so currently, but I started the game with one (which I foolishly passed to neon last night), so if anyone else started with a golf club, then that means multiples can exist.

[molson]

Multiple trays make me wonder - do they have a cumulative effect? If there's someone that we trust, and they end up with say, 5 trays, what's the % defense?

[Alan T]

I'm having to leave in a few minutes for work, and won't be back on until well after deadline, so here's what I'm doing, and why:

I'm leaving my vote on Daddy Torgo. He claims to be the duke, and lynching him in order for him to use his power is the most sure-fire way to establish trust atm. I'd expect him then to kill Neon, as I believe that most of us agree that the fake seer reveal should result in immediate extinction.

I note that a few have voted instead for Neon directly, saying we should "save" DT's power... I may just be dense, but I don't see the advantage. If we have a chance to build a COT of even one, I say let's do it now, as DT seems a likely wolf-target anyway.

And with that, I am officially out until 14 hours or so from now!

I explained my reasoning for why I don't think voting for DT and splitting the vote makes sense today. If DT is lying about the duke role, then the real duke has an easy kill. Until that point (if it occurs), we can just assume DT is good. I don't see lying about being the duke is a fake reveal with good legs.

The best vote in my opinion today is voting directly for neon instead.

[st.cronin]

May or may not mean anything yet, but quiet players always worry me:

MrDna, Raiders Army, Arlington Colt - 3 posts each

[PurdueBrad]

I explained my reasoning for why I don't think voting for DT and splitting the vote makes sense today. If DT is lying about the duke role, then the real duke has an easy kill. Until that point (if it occurs), we can just assume DT is good. I don't see lying about being the duke is a fake reveal with good legs.

The best vote in my opinion today is voting directly for neon instead.

Alan, I was just about to post the same thing. I second this (yeah, I'm real original).

As for the tray thing that somebody mentioned earlier about shifting multiple to a person, I like the idea if we can get a cumulative effect but we need to at least find a couple people we can truly trust before doing this. Could be a great defense though.

[st.cronin]

Obviously DT makes the most sense if people want to pass the trays. Even if its not a cumulative effect, that would enhance the bodyguard's ability to play chicken.

[ArlingtonColt]

I really think Neon Chaos put his foot in his mouth..... I'm guessing he is actually the Goth and barkeep is a wolf.. those are just my thoughts so far from reading all the evidence.

Vote Neon Chaos

[ArlingtonColt]

dola,

in regards to st. cronin, I don't post much regardless. I have 28 posts in 5 years! (and believe it or not I'm here all day at work!)

This is my first swim through this game, I'm still picking it up a bit.

[molson]

So I'll pass the tray to someone. Or not.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok Neon, here is your chance to explain yourself and actually earn some trust.

At this post at just after 10pm you were in teh lead with 3 votes. Three other players have 2 each, you voted for one of them.

Now, explain to me how you thought creating the whole LIE about being the seer was your choice, knowing that there is no real way in hell you'd survive day 2, when you could simply have moved your vote to cronin or RPI-fan, forced a tie and gotten away with no lynch.

Explain that to my satisfaction and I might support letting you live another day.

I didn't want a tie. And the way things were going, and with the momentum I was probably building, even if I had forced a tie, people would call me out on it.

I was pissed off that nobody would move a finger to save my ass when even the argument against me was weak. I really didn't have much of a choice.

I know that I should have known better and taken one for the team... but I panicked. Nothing was really going to be figured out by the big spread of votes. I was calling out to people to actually thin that vote total down.

It was a maverick move, but I thought I could have done the village a favor by drawing attention away from the seer, and then confuse the wolves by calling the BG out to help me.

I know that this is the weakest argument, but it's the truth. I'd rather tell the truth than lie anymore and continue to fuck things up.

As much as possible, I would want to live past this day and redeem myself, however small that chance is. I'm not voting for myself, and I will probably not even vote tonight if it's just going to be a landslide against me.

[PurdueBrad]

So I'll pass the tray to someone. Or not.

Maybe DT is the way to go because as Duke, if he can avoid dying, at least he can hold onto them rather than lose them if someone dies with it (that's what happens, right?).

[Neon_Chaos]

Wow. Things went nuts after I went to bed. I can tell you that Neon is lying about being given the serving tray, because I have it. I received it in my original PM from Lathum, and didn't pass it to anyone last night, and it wasn't used.

I'm not sure if Neon is a wolf, or just tried something sneaky on day 1 without enough information and ended up in a really bad position...but either way, he screwed up big time and needs to pay...

VOTE NEON_CHAOS

I voted for him yesterday and stuck with my vote, and I'm doing the same today...it would take a huge mountain of evidence against someone else to make me change my vote at this point.

I don't know where you're getting at, but I do have the serving tray.

Not sure about multiple items though.

Lathum: Are the items' defensive powers cumulative?

[Lathum]

Lathum: Are the items' defensive powers cumulative?

no

[DaddyTorgo]

good point purdue.

and i guess i see the point about not voting for me...that makes some sense.

let's string neon up and get us a baddie

[Barkeep49]

We're not going to get a bad guy with Neon. I as a wolf would never stick my neck out, when there's been no suspicion on me, to defend Neon simply because of the suspicion, as has already happened, that would follow, whether or not he's good.

I maintain that Neon is likely good, I know I'm good. I've defended Neon because I don't think it makes sense to kill villagers. Further, I think in the long run that I don't like the idea of villagers having less plays in their playbooks than the wolves. Blade showed us that a villager could lie, for the benefit of the village, in multiple games. I don't see why this is different.

I maintain that voting for DT and having him move the vote to someone else does us the most good. Neon is the wrong way to go today. Go ahead and think that I'm a wolf because of it. Fine. But that's the truth and if you decide to do the lynch Neon, he comes up good so BK must be a wolf, let's lynch him, we'll be done three villagers in our votes with no information gained. Two days of easy votes is not a good thing.

[Barkeep49]

Not a good thing in the sense that no voting record is established.