werewolf LIV! Terror at the country club (GAME OVER WOLVES WIN)

[Passacaglia]

I'm curious what you meant on this as well - what part of Eagle's statement are you contesting?

The part where he said "All one has to go on is gut feeling and instinct." Obviously, I'm not disputing that PB was a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Just sounded weird without some clarification.

To be fair, Eagle has done a fair amount of post analysis this game - I don't think he is playing solely gut and instinct.

[EagleFan]

The part where he said "All one has to go on is gut feeling and instinct." Obviously, I'm not disputing that PB was a wolf.

Other than a discover like with Crim and Purdue, it's what this game is all about. Read people's reactions and go with your gut.

I figot about Purdue being the brutal so you are correct about that hoops, that he wouldn't be the goth. Basically just trying to get Pass a little stirred up to see what fur falls out. :D

[Passacaglia]

Just sounded weird without some clarification.

To be fair, Eagle has done a fair amount of post analysis this game - I don't think he is playing solely gut and instinct.

Try telling him that! :D

[EagleFan]

Just sounded weird without some clarification.

To be fair, Eagle has done a fair amount of post analysis this game - I don't think he is playing solely gut and instinct.

Post analysis still leads to gut instinct based on that analysis. Posts are just written words and thought out written words can be easily constructed to carefully hide one's true identity in this game. It's the immediate and quick responses to an accusation that one may want to analyze a bit more in depth.

That and the voting mistakes, like path and Purdue and their late quick change.

[oliegirl]

VOTE ARLINGTON COLT

[RendeR]

well hell, lets see...


VOTE.....awe shit, I'm dead again....

[Neon_Chaos]

well hell, lets see...


VOTE.....awe shit, I'm dead again....

QUOTE OF THE THREAD.

[Raiders Army]

I'm not really sure who is a wolf at this point. Olliegirl could've held onto the serving tray because she's a wolf. Based upon last night, I think hoops is a wolf, but I don't want to force a three way tie.

[hoopsguy]

Raiders, Arlington is in the lead with three right now. So you would not be forcing a tie, but drawing me even with Pass one back.

I'm not a wolf, but if you are convinced I am then you should probably vote me. I'll let you know in advance that I'll move my vote if I have to in order to protect myself and the rest of the villagers from what I absolutely know to be a bad lynch.

Also, I got some clarification on how the mechanics work on an item pass - someone should definitely be able to vouch for me passing them an item. They can take that for what it is worth in terms of my allegiance.

[Raiders Army]

Alrighty then.

VOTE ARLINGTON

Hopefully this is a good lynch tonight.

[ArlingtonColt]

Im certainly not a wolf, I had newbie jitters at first about posting theories (this is my first game) I feel more comfortable in the game now and have posted more... My internet is fixed at home now that helps too. I'm not sure why there is question over the item usage... I went step by step between my questioning of how the procedures where and what the moderator told me in the end. I used the table on hoops last night and it had NO effect, thus the item was wasted (unless it proves hoops is a villager, which is why I used it because he has made alot of usseful posts in this thread)

Unvote Pass

hopefully you will come to your senses and I can realign my vote with some more thinking.

[hoopsguy]

So far this feels uncomfortably like last night in terms of the vote slowly moving towards a candidate without any pushback. I'm sticking with Pass tonight and would encourage people to join me with that vote.

Raiders, this is now two nights in a row where you've said that you thought I was the most likely wolf and then put your vote on the leader. Why is that? I'm really trying to understand your thought process, because I feel like we've been "off" all game.

[ArlingtonColt]

guess i'm a goner....vote pass only one with votes..

[hoopsguy]

Olie, are you planning on being around near the deadline?

[Passacaglia]

guess i'm a goner....vote pass only one with votes..

hoopsguy has a vote.

[ArlingtonColt]

if there is only 1 wolf left then Hoops was cleared last night when i used the table... if there are 2 wolves then it's possible he is one..

[Passacaglia]

Did Lathum ever clear up whether or not you're supposed to get a PM in response when you use the table?

[ArlingtonColt]

he just said "to clear things up your item was used"

[oliegirl]

Olie, are you planning on being around near the deadline?

I'm going to try to be around, I'm on my phone so excuse any typeos :)

I can't find your vote, who did you vote for? I think if you and I agree on who to vote for we can make sure we don't end up with a tie...what do you think?

[hoopsguy]

I voted for Pass and I think it is a better vote than Arlington.

I'll put it in again, just in case there is any confusion.

UNVOTE ALL
VOTE PASS

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, wondering if any villagers are going to be around down the stretch. I'm working on a manifesto right now, will try to have it up before deadline. But it changes nothing for tonight's vote ... I'll keep checking in over the next 25 minutes to see if other people want to discuss our current situation.

[Passacaglia]

A manifesto? That sounds intriguing. I'm not sure if I'll make it to deadline, though.

[oliegirl]

I voted for Pass and I think it is a better vote than Arlington.

I'll put it in again, just in case there is any confusion.

UNVOTE ALL
VOTE PASS

so where are we in the vote count? I can move my vote if I have to but voting for pass means I'm voting with arlington who I think is a wolf, I really don't like that idea...

why are you convinced pass is more wolfish than ac?

[hoopsguy]

Becaues the vote on Arlington has been too easy. Because Arlington's explanation of what happens with the folding table seemed to match up with what Eagle suggested earlier in the thread. Because wolves don't miss multiple votes. Because Pass isn't trying to win the game, just survive another day.

Those are a few reasons.

[Passacaglia]

Well, I'm going to bed before deadline, and since I see another vote possibly headed my way, I'm going to have to self-preserve.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE ARLINGTONCOLT

[Passacaglia]

Let me bold that.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE ARLINGTONCOLT

And...NOW i'm trying to survive another day. Up until now, my vote had been on hoopsguy. That was me trying to win the game. This is me trying to survive another day.

[hoopsguy]

Arlington Colt - st.cronin (1696), EagleFan (1733), oliegirl (1756), Raiders (1761), Pass (1776)

Passacaglia - Arlington (1764), hoopsguy (1771)

We'll need two people to switch to make this happen.

[hoopsguy]

And it is beginning to look like we won't have two people in position to switch their votes (not counting Pass, duh) showing up ... (sigh) this is depressing.

[hoopsguy]

OK, looks like we'll only have one more mistake after tonight. In the event that they come after me, I strongly believe that both Pass and Raiders are wolves.

I know that Raiders has gained trust due to his passing the item to Crim. But:
- the item only had a 25% chance to actually work
- he announced publicly that he was shipping the item to Crim, yet the wolves still attacked Crim
- the wolf that attacked Crim happened to be the brutal wolf, which meant they got their man anyway and built strong trust for Raiders

I've got a long list of posts that I'm working on, but it isn't done yet. I just wanted this out there on the outside chance that the wolves came calling for me tonight. I'm expecting they won't, but can't be too careful ...

[Lathum]

deadline

[Lathum]

Arlington Colt 5- st.cronin (1696), EagleFan (1733), oliegirl (1756), Raiders (1761), Pass (1776)

Passacaglia 2- Arlington (1764), hoopsguy (1771)

[Lathum]

The day draws to a close and the majority of you feel like ArlingtonColt is the guilty one.

You all advance on him and he looks for a place to retreat. The mob beats him silly and he doesn't change. He was an ordinary villager!

Someone remarks what a shame it is, being his first day and all.

[Lathum]

You wake up in the morning and your dwindling numbers head down to find some breakfast.

You realize one of you is missing. It appears someone already had breakfast, and RaidersArmy was the main course.

Day 8 has begun

[hoopsguy]

Guess I don't need to publish the manifesto ...

Also, there is someone out there who can vouch that I passed them the golf club. But I hope they don't, as the wolves are going to need one more kill (assuming two left). I didn't pass it to Raiders because he had quickly dropped to 2nd on my distrust list as the afternoon went by. I voted for first on my distrust list.

[Raiders Army]

OK, looks like we'll only have one more mistake after tonight. In the event that they come after me, I strongly believe that both Pass and Raiders are wolves.

I know that Raiders has gained trust due to his passing the item to Crim. But:
- the item only had a 25% chance to actually work
- he announced publicly that he was shipping the item to Crim, yet the wolves still attacked Crim
- the wolf that attacked Crim happened to be the brutal wolf, which meant they got their man anyway and built strong trust for Raiders

I've got a long list of posts that I'm working on, but it isn't done yet. I just wanted this out there on the outside chance that the wolves came calling for me tonight. I'm expecting they won't, but can't be too careful ...

IF there was even a chance that you'd get lynched tonight, I would've voted for you. I wasn't around much today (and I probably won't be around much tomorrow), so I wasn't able to swing some votes your way. Believe me, I think you're a wolf. Coming after me just proves to myself that you are a wolf.

Like I said before, I don't want anyone to think that I'm inside their circle of trust. I'm no more trustworthy than anyone else at this point. You made two switches late in the voting cycle the past couple of nights.

[EagleFan]

ouch, bad misread on my part.

I think I need to do some homework a little better.

placeholder vote:

vote oliegirl

[hoopsguy]

Raiders:
1. You are dead (post #1784)
2. I didn't switch a vote today - it was on Pass all day
3. Let's talk in the post-game. After going through your post recap I'm astonished that you are a villager and really do want to hear your perspective on some of them

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to make a few worst-case assumption here:
1. There are two remaining wolves
2. The villager MrDNA isn't going to show up again, seeing as how he hasn't voted either of the last two days. That leaves us with five players overall, two wolves.
3. With that in mind, the villagers need to be 100% united tomorrow. If there is one villager who deviates, then the wolves get to pick the lynch since they will be able to move two votes to whichever side is a villager


This is the first lynch where I feel like the wolves made a mistake. I have very little doubt that I would have gotten a vote from the (proven in death) villager Raiders tomorrow and that would have given the win to the wolves because they could have switched onto him at the end.

[hoopsguy]

I still want to see Passacaglia lynched. In the interests of the team I'll try to listen to other candidates, but I think this is our best course to a good lynch tomorrow. I would encourage people to fall in line behind and we vote nightfall if/when we get up to five votes.

[EagleFan]

With everything that I have been spouting lately I am shocked that the wolves have left me alone. That says that they don;t think I am close. Since oliegirl and hoops are basically the two left that I haven't gone after, maybe I really need to rethink my approach and look hoops over a little more closely.

I hope I wasn't helping the wolves by stirring things up with Pass. Keeping Pass alive and keeping me on his trail helps the wolves a lot. Or Pass is alove because he is a wolf and didn;t go after me as it would have been obvious to go after a vocal target. OR I am trying to think way too much about this.

[ArlingtonColt]

Good Luck villagers, sorry I wasn't much help. Next game I will take better notes !

[st.cronin]

Lathum, what's the story with Mr DNA? Is he still playing?

[Passacaglia]

I'm going to make a few worst-case assumption here:
1. There are two remaining wolves
2. The villager MrDNA isn't going to show up again, seeing as how he hasn't voted either of the last two days. That leaves us with five players overall, two wolves.
3. With that in mind, the villagers need to be 100% united tomorrow. If there is one villager who deviates, then the wolves get to pick the lynch since they will be able to move two votes to whichever side is a villager


This is the first lynch where I feel like the wolves made a mistake. I have very little doubt that I would have gotten a vote from the (proven in death) villager Raiders tomorrow and that would have given the win to the wolves because they could have switched onto him at the end.

Why do you call MrDNA a villager? Has he been cleared somehow?

I think your #3 is the reason we all fell in line on AC yesterday. As the day started, we all held to our choices, but in the end, everyone probably felt like they had to be united. We've got one vote on oliegirl -- are you proposing we all vote her?

I find it interesting that you had a lot to say about RA....but then he died. I know at this point, I've got the blinders on, but you've been my best bet for a few days now.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[Passacaglia]

Anyway, I only work half a day today, so I should have a lot of time in the afternoon to be here, until I take my cat to the vet at 3.

[hoopsguy]

Why would I prepare a case against RA and then kill him as a wolf? That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Whatever else you want to say about me, and as a wolf you would definitely want to say all kinds of things that are not true, you have to admit I'm pretty meticulous in these games. There is no way that I would set the table to go after one person and then kill him. This is another reach by you.

I'm not proposing we vote on Oliegirl because I think we lose the game if that happens. Not certain about that, but I think would be the result. I'm proposing we vote on you.


VOTE PASSACAGLIA

[hoopsguy]

As for DNA, my assumptions were "worst case". There may not be two wolves left. DNA may be a wolf, in which case he is doing us a huge favor that we have not yet leveraged.

I think he is a villager, because his only data point, positive or negative, is putting a crippling vote on Path (tied him up pretty late) on Day 5. That sounds like a villager to me. Also, Path was encouraging us to look at the quiet players, starting with MrDNA. Well, we now know that one of the quiet players (Arlington) was a villager. I'm not inclined to find out about the other one today.

If DNA is in a position where he is the last wolf, either today or after we get the other one, we'll win this game. The only way I'm factoring him into my thinking at this point is that we have one less villager vote to hold off the wolves. Which sucks, but it is beyond our control.

[hoopsguy]

Eagle, either you or Raiders were the obvious targets last night as players who were trusted by the majority. I gambled and lost with my golf club gambit, as I was trying to induce them to go elsewhere with my comments. But there was zero chance I was passing it to Raiders as I believed at the time that I would be giving it to a wolf.

[Raiders Army]

Ugh. I did die!

[Lathum]

Lathum, what's the story with Mr DNA? Is he still playing?

I sent him a PM last night and haben't heard back from him :(.

I don't ever recal beinf in a position where we need a replacement this late in the game. I think we would be hard pressed to find a replacement who has to read 2000 posts to catch up.

[oliegirl]

Ugh.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

[st.cronin]

Hoops, why Pass and not oliegirl? To me its a coin flip.

[hoopsguy]

Mainly because I have more of a track record on Passacaglia's "usual play" compared to Oliegirl.

Pass is usually part of the solution as a villager, and I don't think that he has played in that fashion this game. He is normally willing to challenge people, asking questions that help him to formulate a plan for his votes. His play this game, particularly over the last couple of days, has felt very defensive to me.

I really wanted an answer on him yesterday rather than having to do so today because we were not in do-or-die mode yesterday. It is tougher to get a good wolf during the final day because of the need for villager unity. Good wolves are able to create enough reasonable doubt that it is tough to be united. Yesterday we had two more villagers along for the ride, giving us more of a margin for error.

[st.cronin]

I have the votes as two for Passacaglia (oliegirl, hoopsguy), one for hoopsguy (passacaglia), and one for oliegirl (EagleFan). That leaves just me and Mr. Dna to vote. Assuming Mr. Dna doesn't vote, that means if I vote for Pass, he gets lynched, but if I vote for olie, Pass probably changes his vote (and probably even if he and olie are the last two wolves), and olie gets lynched.

Is that the situation?

[st.cronin]

dola, also if I pick wrong we lose, so, no pressure.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, that is the situation if Eagles plans to keep his vote on Olie.

If you feel strongly about Olie then I'll change my vote over there as well. The important part is that we have all three villagers on the same candidate. I'll take my chances on you and Eagles being on my side at this stage.

If I'm wrong in who I'm trusting "we lose, so, no pressure." :)

[Passacaglia]

Looks like I managed to get online at work!

Hoops, you wanted "an answer" on me? What was the question?

[hoopsguy]

Again, my strong preference would be Pass. But it doesn't matter what my strong preference is if I can't get the other villagers to vote with me.

[st.cronin]

I need to head to class, I'll make a vote well before deadline though.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I want an answer on whether you are a wolf or not. And the only way we are going to find it out at this point is if you are removed by vote or somehow revealed during a botched night kill. That isn't just true of you, it is true of anyone in the game right now.

Pass, if you want to answer questions, can you give me a rundown of your play this game and how you feel that it supports the notion that you are a villager? I know it is kind of a "big picture" question, but if you have time to talk then let's start there.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not sure what all can be said about my play itself -- you're right, it's not my usual challenging style, but a lot of that comes from seeing things unfold as they happen -- if I read it while catching up, I'm not as challenging, because I tend to think the point is not worth bumping. However, I think you can look at my vote history and get a pretty villager feel from me. When I get home from work, I'll look back over my voting history (keeping in mind that I know you won't like the last couple days).

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I'm fine with you voting for me - it makes sense either as a wolf or a villager from your perspective. And you have a very good vote for Path on Day 5. The voting history is what kept me from pushing for you on the day that RendeR was the selection.

[Passacaglia]

Pass, I'm fine with you voting for me - it makes sense either as a wolf or a villager from your perspective. And you have a very good vote for Path on Day 5. The voting history is what kept me from pushing for you on the day that RendeR was the selection.

That makes sense -- my path vote is probably the best feather in my cap, in terms of proving that I'm good -- it's what jumped out in my mind, at least. What's changed since the day that RendeR was the selection?

[hoopsguy]

Pass, if you read my posts from that day (Day 6) I thought you were the most likely wolf, but the Path vote forced me to reconsider and I went to look elsewhere. And chose poorly (RendeR).

What has changed is that we have had fewer and fewer people to choose from, and my reservations about your play this game have magnified as I've had less people to evaluate. And days have gone by where I still haven't seen you appear to be "fully engaged", despite the fact that the game is slipping away from us. I would hope that you care about this as a villager; previous games suggest that you do but this game hasn't given me that feeling.

The game isn't going to run much longer and we don't have time for many more mistakes. I really want to know if I've been right on this point or if I've been totally off-base for most of this week. Is that a little self-serving? It would be if I decided to let the villagers split their votes today. Which is why I'm putting out the call for unity on a candidate.

[EagleFan]

unvote oliegirl

I need to do some more research for this one. At this point I believe either Pass or hoops is a wolf. I had always leadned towards it being Pass but want to look back at some of the voting history to see if I can find anything that backs up one side or the other.

As was stated earlier, this is our last chance basically.

[hoopsguy]

Eagle, I'll be around to answer any questions that you might have. I feel like I've been pretty open and honest with my play all game long - hopefully you see the same thing when reviewing my posts.

Obviously I agree with your view that either Pass or I are a wolf, since I'm voting for him.

And, on the off chance that you end up being a wolf, congrats because I'm not going to catch you. I did not like your vote, and subsequent reasoning on Arlington yesterday and hoped that there was something that you weren't saying. But that isn't enough to deter me from my assumption that you are a villager.

[EagleFan]

going back and looking at it, I don't like my vote yesterday. I am putting aplce holder vote for now and will see a little more later after work and before the deadline, what is hopefully not the villagers true deadline.

vote Pass

That vote is based on previous suspicions but still may change if I find enough for me to swing it in a different direction (though directions are very limited at this time).

[Passacaglia]

Pass, if you read my posts from that day (Day 6) I thought you were the most likely wolf, but the Path vote forced me to reconsider and I went to look elsewhere. And chose poorly (RendeR).

What has changed is that we have had fewer and fewer people to choose from, and my reservations about your play this game have magnified as I've had less people to evaluate. And days have gone by where I still haven't seen you appear to be "fully engaged", despite the fact that the game is slipping away from us. I would hope that you care about this as a villager; previous games suggest that you do but this game hasn't given me that feeling.

The game isn't going to run much longer and we don't have time for many more mistakes. I really want to know if I've been right on this point or if I've been totally off-base for most of this week. Is that a little self-serving? It would be if I decided to let the villagers split their votes today. Which is why I'm putting out the call for unity on a candidate.

We've gone over this a few times, as to why I'm not as engaged this game. I'm not expecting special treatment for it or anything, but if that's your agrument for going after me (especially considering you keep changing your mind when other options become more popular), it screams wolf.

[st.cronin]

Eagle, not sure if this clears anything up or not, but hoops passed me the golf club yesterday (at least I assume it was hoops). I was very surprised by that, since hoops has been subtlely pushing me as a candidate for some time now.

[Passacaglia]

Post #1334 - Pass is worried that we are headed towards a tie
Post #1338 - Purdue stands by his vote for Crim
Post #1340 - Hoops encourages Purdue to put vote on one of leaders
Post #1341 - Pass tell Purdue how it will look if he leaves vote on "throwaway" candidate
Post #1342 - Purdue summarizes his play - suspects Crim, Cronin, Chief. Doesn't buy that RendeR is a wolf
Post #1343 - Purdue is convinced to "bail" on Crim vote
Post #1344 - Pass again tells Purdue to make a call on a leader if he has different levels of trust between them. Follows up in next post telling Purdue it ultimately is his call
Post #1346 - I cover posts by Purdue. One of conclusions is that I don't think a wolf would ask if they could self-vote as he did earlier in game
Post #1347 - I agree with Pass that Purdue gets to make the call, don't listen to us if he doesn't agree with our thoughts
Post #1348 - Olie joins in on Purdue vote, says "do what is best for village" which in this case is casting meaningful vote
Post #1349 - Purdue feels stuck with moving his vote. Trusts Eagle and olie the most, Hoops has slipped "because I'm not sure where to place you in all of this"
Post #1350 - Purdue unvotes Crim (18 minutes to deadline at this point)
1351 - Eagles "Day 1 post review"
1352 - I tell Purdue that it is not a two-man race, but a four-man race as there are others just one vote behind
1354 - I tell Purdue that he finds himself in a tough werewolf spot
1356 - Purdue, "Hoops, based on what you said, I'm going back over the top four and making a choice" (13 minutes to deadline)
1359 - Purdue is learning paranoia part of game
1360 - Path quotes his day 1 posts, says they are in character
1361 - Olie suggests that Cronin makes sense as vote for Purdue, given his "distrust" lists
1366 - Purdue appreciates advice from Olie, but goes with vote for Rum (3 minutes left) to force 3 way tie
1368 - Purdue thinks vote for RendeR is a bad play
1372 - Path thinks Purdue wants him to go RendeR, so follows him onto Chief (1 minute left)
1373 - Eagle "this is bad, only a wolf would want a tie tonight, especially if a fellow wolf was on the chopping block"
1374 - Lathum "deadline" at 9:30 PM
1375 - EagleFan moves vote at 9:30 PM, creating a tie between Path and Chief
1376 - Pass "this is seriously messed up"
1379 - Lathum "Eaglefan's vote WILL COUNT", posted at 9:31 PM
1382 - Path reiterates that he was trying to out-think the "most likely bad guy" Purdue
1383 - Purdue says vote on Chief was related to his Goth discussion
1390 - Pass to Eagle "Due, look at the posts!!! YOU forced the tie!"
1395 - Eagle says he thought Purdue was protecting Path, "oddly you are not on my suspect list" to Path


I'd like to highlight this part of the Day 5 post review. Can you see how looking back, I felt like hoops was setting us up to give PB an 'out' on his vote for Crim, and into a vote for someone else? This was probably the day I was most emotionally invested -- after Bug was a villager, I really thought we had a wolf in the path/Bug/cronin group, and wanted to get one then. I'm sorry I came out against EF for it, since it makes me look pretty bad, but you can see where I'm coming from -- before I knew that PB was a wolf too, I thought you had forced a tie.

[st.cronin]

oh, and

Vote Passacaglia

[Barkeep49]

Lathum: What about somebody who was killed already in the game? I wouldn't be able to because I have inside info, but presumably some other villager would be able to take the part.

[Passacaglia]

Eagle, not sure if this clears anything up or not, but hoops passed me the golf club yesterday (at least I assume it was hoops). I was very surprised by that, since hoops has been subtlely pushing me as a candidate for some time now.

Why would you mention that you have it, if that's the case?

[st.cronin]

Why would you mention that you have it, if that's the case?

Eagle said he was suspicious of hoops. I'm not going to be around at deadline, wanted all positive data points for hoops favor out there. You know, just in case.

[Passacaglia]

Eagle said he was suspicious of hoops. I'm not going to be around at deadline, wanted all positive data points for hoops favor out there. You know, just in case.

That's a tough one for me to deal with, considering you're my #2 suspect -- I just haven't had a chance to get around to you yet. If you are both wolves, this is pretty much our last chance to do the right thing and get one of you.

[st.cronin]

Well, you're wrong. Its my belief that you and oliegirl are the last two wolves. As an endgame play, for a wolf to give a villager a tool to block a kill would be very foolish.

[Passacaglia]

Well, you're wrong. Its my belief that you and oliegirl are the last two wolves. As an endgame play, for a wolf to give a villager a tool to block a kill would be very foolish.

When did a wolf give a villager a tool to block a kill? Anyway, can these items be passed more than once per day? I could see a wolf giving that item to a villager, knowing he's not planning on killing that villager that day.

[st.cronin]

Pass, let me ask you this: If I assume you're a villager, where do I look for the wolves? (assuming two left)

- Oliegirl: Ok, fine. There's a good case against her.
- EagleFan: Saved Chief Rum's butt on day 5.
- Mr. DNA: I wanted him lynched several days ago, but somebody is submitting the night actions, and its not him.
- hoopsguy: Gave me a golf club.

So I'm not voting for either hoops or DNA today. If you want to make a case for an alternate lynch, from my pov, it has to be either Eagle or olie. That you haven't made a case for olie (yet) will look very bad for her if you get lynched and turn up wolf. The case against Eagle is tough.

So my thinking is: Today we lynch pass, if he's not a wolf game over. If he is a wolf, we lynch oliegirl tomorrow, and we should be golden.

[Passacaglia]

Well, olie's in the thread -- let's hear her take on it.

[Passacaglia]

So much for that, I guess.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, I see that no one is willing to jump on the hoops bandwagon. Can anyone (besides cronin) tell me what makes you all believe he's good?

[Passacaglia]

I'm sticking with my vote on hoops for now. It looks like there's some push for me to make an argument for oliegirl, and I'm assuming that they want to make this a villager/villager situation when the evening comes. I'm not willing to be the pawn again.

[hoopsguy]

When did a wolf give a villager a tool to block a kill? Anyway, can these items be passed more than once per day? I could see a wolf giving that item to a villager, knowing he's not planning on killing that villager that day.

I get that argument, consider it is one I made about a week ago when we initially started discussing the item passing. However, we are near end game now - would a wolf really want to put that item out there for the villagers to potentially use the following day? Remember, the golf club is a 50% item, twice as good as the serving tray.

I passed it because I thought the chances of others being attacked were greater than the chances of me being attacked. I deliberated between Cronin and Eagles as the two candidates, then posted about the passing hoping that would move the wolves away from Eagles. Mission accomplished on that end, but they took out the guy that I thought was Wolf #2.

Also, Cronin has the opportunity to pass the club again today if he is so inclined. Or he can keep it.

Final point - I passed it to Cronin after he said he was gone for the day. The reasoning behind that was that if he was a wolf then the wolves would not know they had gotten the golf club, so they would still have to worry about it with their attack. I also kept my eyes open to see if Cronin was in this thread yesterday after I sent the PM. If he was, then I missed him.

[hoopsguy]

I'm sticking with my vote on hoops for now. It looks like there's some push for me to make an argument for oliegirl, and I'm assuming that they want to make this a villager/villager situation when the evening comes. I'm not willing to be the pawn again.

I'm not trying to get an Oliegirl argument out of you. I'm definitely willing to listen to what you have to say about your reads on this game, why you have made decisions that you have, whatever game analysis you feel like bringing to the table.

It has nothing to do with being a pawn - it has to do with trying to convince the rest of us not to make a mistake if you are a villager. It really doesn't sound like your heart is into doing that, which could be interpreted a couple of different ways.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not trying to get an Oliegirl argument out of you. I'm definitely willing to listen to what you have to say about your reads on this game, why you have made decisions that you have, whatever game analysis you feel like bringing to the table.

It has nothing to do with being a pawn - it has to do with trying to convince the rest of us not to make a mistake if you are a villager. It really doesn't sound like your heart is into doing that, which could be interpreted a couple of different ways.

I'd gladly answer why I've made the decisions I've made -- but I don't even know which ones you have a problem with..I know a long while back, you said you hated a list of distrust I had. I know you're not happy with my vote on you, but I know you're too good of a player to push on someone else, just because they're pushing on you. What decisions do you think were wolfish?

[hoopsguy]

We've gone over this a few times, as to why I'm not as engaged this game. I'm not expecting special treatment for it or anything, but if that's your agrument for going after me (especially considering you keep changing your mind when other options become more popular), it screams wolf.

This would be fair for one day - Day 6 with RendeR. Prior to that, I was going after Path (wolf) for two days. I've now been going after you for nearly three, with the exception you are noting where I changed to RendeR.

I've speculated on numerous people as wolf - isn't that what you are supposed to do as a villager, run through scenarios and see if they make sense? But in terms of my votes, since Path dies I'm sure that I've gone harder after you than anyone else around here with limited deviation. And if I had been smart, I would have recognized the movement on that day a little earlier than I did and tried to get people off of RendeR before the deadline.

We'll get to talk about this in post-game. Either I've been wrong on you for days, and I'll look back on this as one of my most confused villagers games ever or I've been after you as a wolf and just haven't done a good enough job of selling it. But I really think it is a stretch to suggest I'm voting for the "flavor of the month" this game.

[sebastian0622]

I've read every page of this game. Cooley linked to it on the Gridiron Glory forums and you guys got me hooked early on. I'll play for MrDNA if you still need a replacement. I know I don't know many of you guys, but I'm a regular at the OOTP boards and have been a member of the FoF forums for a long time, just haven't played the game in a while. Sorry to interrupt.

edit: sorry for the edit, but that yellow color just wasn't working...

[Passacaglia]

Well, I'm going to move my vote to oliegirl. I'm still skeptical of all this, but with cronin clearing hoops, I figure it's not going to happen. Besides, I was still high on cronin, so maybe someone else is his partner. I feel like I've been a target for not being engaged in this game, while olie has been just as high on a lot of distrust lists, and much less vocal than me -- while I'm just vocal enough to take heat for it. I have to take my cat to the vet now, but I want to get this out there for people to chew on before I go.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE OLIEGIRL

[EagleFan]

If you really want me to trust you, pass me the golf club. Now I don't know who to trust. I have suspected cronin in the past and his defense of hoops just makes me think of that again. I don't know yet where my vote will go but it will be one of the leaders which tells me I have a 50/50 shot at a win.

I see it as either Pass and oliegirl or hoops and cronin at this point. I have pretty much ruled out DNA just because of way too much inactivity lately.

[hoopsguy]

I've read every page of this game. Cooley linked to it on the Gridiron Glory forums and you guys got me hooked early on. I'll play for MrDNA if you still need a replacement. I know I don't know many of you guys, but I'm a regular at the OOTP boards and have been a member of the FoF forums for a long time, just haven't played the game in a while. Sorry to interrupt.

edit: sorry for the edit, but that yellow color just wasn't working...

I'm fine with it if others are. I'm also glad you didn't include anything in this post that suggests which way you lean with your thoughts, as that would give people a reason to potentially object.

Glad to hear that we have entertained you and if for whatever reason you don't end up in this one I hope to see you in another game sometime soon.

Cooley = ???

[hoopsguy]

If you really want me to trust you, pass me the golf club. Now I don't know who to trust. I have suspected cronin in the past and his defense of hoops just makes me think of that again. I don't know yet where my vote will go but it will be one of the leaders which tells me I have a 50/50 shot at a win.

I see it as either Pass and oliegirl or hoops and cronin at this point. I have pretty much ruled out DNA just because of way too much inactivity lately.

I hope whoever ends up with the golf club is absolutely silent about it. Because if we miss this vote today, and there are two wolves, then it is going to come down to a 16% chance (1/3 * 50%) of us getting the block to extend the game.

If we have the wolves down to one player then we'll likely win this game and I've been overly stressed the last couple of days without good reason.

[EagleFan]

Isn't it kind of late in the game now for a replacement. The only reason to even need a replacement for him would be if he was actually a wolf at this point as we may be almost at end game after tonight and if he turns out to be an absent lone remaining wolf (if the lynch goes right tonight) that would mean no more night actions.

Just my .02

[EagleFan]

I hope whoever ends up with the golf club is absolutely silent about it. Because if we miss this vote today, and there are two wolves, then it is going to come down to a 16% chance (1/3 * 50%) of us getting the block to extend the game.

If we have the wolves down to one player then we'll likely win this game and I've been overly stressed the last couple of days without good reason.

I would absolutely be silent about it. Or maybe even act like I don't have it already and want it to be passed to me, or maybe.... the possibbilities are endless. :)

[EagleFan]

Damn, have to head into a meeting in a couple minutes. So much for the momentary break from the mundane.

[hoopsguy]

Sebastian, just got a look at your first WW game on that site - the villagers are going to need some serious luck to win that game. 11 vs 4, with the bad guys having a brutal wolf = uphill.

For next time around, assuming same numbers, I would go with 12 vs 3, with wolves getting the brutal. Most game balance mechanisms go with at least 4-1 and I've heard as high as 6-1 for starting ratios. These can, and should, move depending on roles for both sides.

[hoopsguy]

I'd gladly answer why I've made the decisions I've made -- but I don't even know which ones you have a problem with..I know a long while back, you said you hated a list of distrust I had. I know you're not happy with my vote on you, but I know you're too good of a player to push on someone else, just because they're pushing on you. What decisions do you think were wolfish?

Not always true - it was a big part of the reason I started suspecting Raiders yesterday afternoon. I had reached a tipping point with his posts saying "I think Hoops is a wolf" and then voting for the vote-leader with the thread of "If this lynch is bad, I'm coming for Hoops the next day". Those just screamed wolf at me and it turned out he was a villager.

What looks wolfish? Well, I can look at a bunch of votes but that isn't going to be fair because most of us left haven't done all that well with the votes. My suspicions are almost entirely based on style of play. It isn't the volume of posts that I care about, which would correlate with your new job and lack of availability. It is the fact that a player who I have seen become more direct and challenging in play style as a villager over the past couple of months seems to have retreated into a more counter-punch style this game. As a counter-puncher, you don't adopt many positions for me to attack, but are more intent on deflecting ideas.

[sebastian0622]

Sebastian, just got a look at your first WW game on that site - the villagers are going to need some serious luck to win that game. 11 vs 4, with the bad guys having a brutal wolf = uphill.

For next time around, assuming same numbers, I would go with 12 vs 3, with wolves getting the brutal. Most game balance mechanisms go with at least 4-1 and I've heard as high as 6-1 for starting ratios. These can, and should, move depending on roles for both sides.

I'll let Cooley know; he's running the game. Thanks for the advice.

As for why you'd want a replacement this late: having more active villagers is a good thing, because the wolves aren't as able to push the vote where they want it as easily if they're more outnumbered. The risk of leaving an inactive player unreplaced right now and him turning out to be a villager is higher than the reward of him turning out to be a wolf, as it's quite obvious there are enough wolves left to put in night kill orders as of last night.

Ok, I'll butt out now and let you folks decide.

[hoopsguy]

Eagle - I agree about the potential advantage if MrDNA is a wolf, but the game is a little broken right now without having the full complement of players. Both sides (I would assume) are adopting strategies to deal with it, but the best case scenario would be to not be in this position in the first place.

Ultimately, this is a moderator decision. Hopefully whatever way Lathum decides to go with this a decision is reached with enough time for everyone to react. Particularly if Sebastian is playing, so he has a chance to give his thoughts once he learns what side he is on.

[st.cronin]

If you really want me to trust you, pass me the golf club. Now I don't know who to trust. I have suspected cronin in the past and his defense of hoops just makes me think of that again. I don't know yet where my vote will go but it will be one of the leaders which tells me I have a 50/50 shot at a win.

I see it as either Pass and oliegirl or hoops and cronin at this point. I have pretty much ruled out DNA just because of way too much inactivity lately.

You have had an awful lot of spurious analysis in this game, you know.

[hoopsguy]

BTW, Sebastian - have you PM'd Lathum on this? If not then you should definitely do that ASAP.

[hoopsguy]

Last note on the other game - if I feel the urge to post on it again I'll just PM Sebastian. If the stuff is already sent out with 11-4 then you could have the moderator go heavy on the items to give the villagers a little more of a boost. So maybe two items per night for the first three nights or something along those lines.

At least there is no conversion in that game. They are, in my opinion, the bane of werewolf games. Ugh - where is the puke icon?

[sebastian0622]

BTW, Sebastian - have you PM'd Lathum on this? If not then you should definitely do that ASAP.

Done.

And I let Cooley know your advice in the other WW thread. He hasn't sent out roles yet, so that's good.

[Lathum]

now playing tghe part of mrDNa

Sebastian0622

[hoopsguy]

OK, this should be interesting. Welcome, Sebastian. The floor is yours.

[Passacaglia]

Wow, hoops and I agree on something. This SHOULD be interesting!

...

You know...Sebastian, you don't have to ACT like MrDNA too -- you can talk!

So, if you're a wolf, that would help us out.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, hope that the cat is OK. Since my wife and I have three of our own at home, there is another item we can probably agree on today.

So, I'm curious if we are going to get a super-long and involved first post from Sebastian or a "Vote DUDE#1" - I'm hoping for the former, but would laugh pretty hard at the latter.

[sebastian0622]

I have a few ideas. You should hear from me within a few hours after I take care of a few real-life appointments.

[sebastian0622]

Pass, hope that the cat is OK. Since my wife and I have three of our own at home, there is another item we can probably agree on today.

So, I'm curious if we are going to get a super-long and involved first post from Sebastian or a "Vote DUDE#1" - I'm hoping for the former, but would laugh pretty hard at the latter.

Maybe you'll get both :)

[EagleFan]

unvote Pass

Really curious now, wouldn't it be to the advantage of a wolf to replace a player at this time? When we are potentially one bad vote away from game over. Even more so if DNA was a wolf, than the second wolf would be the one pushing for a replacement (eyes hoops).

[hoopsguy]

Olie, I would be interested in hearing your take on where we sit right now.

[hoopsguy]

Eagle, in a bigger sense I think the game is better with the right number of players. I've played enough games that I'm not going to be hung up on trying to game the system to win this game.

In a smaller sense, I've believed that MrDNA is a villager. I would rather have more villagers around as it makes it harder for the wolves to push us around. Even if DNA was a wolf, that means we have four active (well, Olie hasn't been very active today) villagers, which means we aren't one false step away from a bad lynch. So in that sense, I do think it was good to have an active player assume this role.

A 3-3 tie is considerably better than a 3-2 bad lynch with six players left.

[Passacaglia]

unvote Pass

Really curious now, wouldn't it be to the advantage of a wolf to replace a player at this time? When we are potentially one bad vote away from game over. Even more so if DNA was a wolf, than the second wolf would be the one pushing for a replacement (eyes hoops).

Maybe I'm missing what you're asking, but I think a good game-runner would look equally hard for a replacement whether DNA was a wolf or villager, for the sake of fairness. It's kind of a bad position to be in for the game -- how do we determine if he is a wolf? And if we decide not to vote for him, what happens if he ends up with the deciding vote? I'm very interested to hear thoughts on this game from someone who doesn't know anyone, hasn't said anything, and hasn't been suspected all game.

[Passacaglia]

In a smaller sense, I've believed that MrDNA is a villager.

What do you mean, in a smaller sense? What could you possibly have to go on to say he's a villager? Cronin made the argument that someone is sending in actions, and it's not him -- that only holds water if there is one wolf, which I don't think anyone else believes at this point.

[Barkeep49]

Maybe you'll get both :)
Welcome! Great to have you!

[EagleFan]

Oops, forgot to add a welcome to Sebastian.

[hoopsguy]

To expand on the above just a little bit, even though it has very little to do with this particular game.

There are a number of us who play a whole bunch of games of werewolf. I think Lathum probably has the most under his belt; between player and moderator I'm guessing he has been involved with 45+ games. I've played in probably 25-30 by now. The guys who are long-timers generally get along pretty well, but by the same token we get a little bored playing games with the same old mix of people every time out. We generally are very pleased to have new people come along and play a game.

Now how do you keep new players interested in the game? Well, for starters you try not to be antagonistic, elitist, or guilty of creating a bad environment. The second thing you try to do is keep the games as fair as possible. If people don't think there is a level playing field that will discourage them from playing in future games. I've definitely seen this happen.

That might help explain why I reacted the way I did in this situation. For better or worse, I try to keep long-term community concerns in my head when I'm playing. I'll try very hard not to make the game personal when stuff gets heated, and I'll try to be as inclusive as possible in these games ... of course, while pouring out a stupid number of posts in the process :)

[EagleFan]

Maybe I'm missing what you're asking, but I think a good game-runner would look equally hard for a replacement whether DNA was a wolf or villager, for the sake of fairness. It's kind of a bad position to be in for the game -- how do we determine if he is a wolf? And if we decide not to vote for him, what happens if he ends up with the deciding vote? I'm very interested to hear thoughts on this game from someone who doesn't know anyone, hasn't said anything, and hasn't been suspected all game.

Go figure, he complains when I vote for him and when I unvote for him... :D

Just putting ideas out there. This doesn't change my stance on his role, just have to get a little more discussion going. The more said (typed), the better.

All angles need to be explored. :)

[hoopsguy]

What do you mean, in a smaller sense? What could you possibly have to go on to say he's a villager? Cronin made the argument that someone is sending in actions, and it's not him -- that only holds water if there is one wolf, which I don't think anyone else believes at this point.

I've only got one data point on him, and it was the vote on Day 5 that tied Path for the lead. That was the pressure vote on Path that day, more than any other. Even Eagles vote on him only tied the score late - it never threatened to hang him.

Pass, you and I had votes on Path that day but neither of them tightened things up on Path as much as this vote did. I believe it was why Path and Purdue had to arrange their near-deadline actions that day.

I don't have much to read on DNA, but what I do have I consider to be very positive.

[hoopsguy]

Good to see all the dead guys taking a late-Friday look in at our game. Out for a few, will be back when my daughter is asleep for the night. Should be a couple of hours before deadline.

[EagleFan]

To expand on the above just a little bit, even though it has very little to do with this particular game.

There are a number of us who play a whole bunch of games of werewolf. I think Lathum probably has the most under his belt; between player and moderator I'm guessing he has been involved with 45+ games. I've played in probably 25-30 by now. The guys who are long-timers generally get along pretty well, but by the same token we get a little bored playing games with the same old mix of people every time out. We generally are very pleased to have new people come along and play a game.

Now how do you keep new players interested in the game? Well, for starters you try not to be antagonistic, elitist, or guilty of creating a bad environment. The second thing you try to do is keep the games as fair as possible. If people don't think there is a level playing field that will discourage them from playing in future games. I've definitely seen this happen.

That might help explain why I reacted the way I did in this situation. For better or worse, I try to keep long-term community concerns in my head when I'm playing. I'll try very hard not to make the game personal when stuff gets heated, and I'll try to be as inclusive as possible in these games ... of course, while pouring out a stupid number of posts in the process :)

I'm not complaining about him joining. Just wanted to put out some possibilities.

One of the theories being that there are only two wolves left and one was the MIA player. That would pretty much make the second wolf want to push for replacement, especially if there was no movement towards votig out the MIA wolf and maybe action on voting against the wolf who is present.

Again, just floating ideas.

[sebastian0622]

I'm still waiting on a PM from the mod, guys. I'll hopefully check in rather soon.

[sebastian0622]

In the meantime, does anyone have a complete voting record, and/or a run-down of votes, vote switching near deadlines and whatnot?

[hoopsguy]

I've got some of this information - put it together back on Day 6. I'll pull up a couple of the links and you should be able to go from there.

[hoopsguy]

These are the final votes for Day 5. Work is pretty busy today, but I expect to have more time this afternoon to look at the votes/unvotes and comments leading up to this vote.

Quick notes on the final votes here:
- both known/dead wolves moved late onto Chief Rum, who has now killed one of them. Gee, he looks pretty good here.
- Pass had his vote on Path (wolf) and it didn't move at the end. I want to go back and see if he was around with an opportunity to do so (based on posts after #1318). If not, that speaks well for him
- RendeR and Cronin both have votes on Chief. Both of their votes were in relatively early. I don't think either of them had a ton of incentive to move based on self-preservation, but it would look better for both of them to be on a now-known wolf than to be on an assumed villager
- MrDNA's vote on Path certainly increased the pressure on a wolf down the stretch, as it put him in a tie for the lead (going from memory here). Speaks well for him
- two of the three votes on RendeR are from assumed good villagers (Chief and RA) and the third from Olie

As stated above, next exercise is to review the votes and comments that day in full. After that, I would be interested in tracking the votes each day from Path and Purdue and comparing them to other players still in the game. The assumption behind that is that the wolves would try to stay dispersed in their votes when possible. If someone has their votes dovetail really closely with a known wolf that is a sign that they are more likely to be good rather than bad.

I don't think that Lathum had an official vote post for the end of Day 4, this is the last one publicly listed and there were no votes afterwards. Just putting it up in case someone else wants to review voting records, Day 5, or any of that fun stuff.

This is the Day 3 vote.

Didn't quickly find a vote page for Day 2 (Neon runaway) but this post can act as a benchmark for people who want to look at Day 3 in its entirety.

End of Day 2 - Post #590
End of Day 3 - Post #912
End of Day 4 - Post #1205
End of Day 5 - Post #1397

Links to the vote posts, along with a few notes I had at the time.

[hoopsguy]

Day 5 voting pattern:
1230 - Cronin votes Hoops, first vote
1232 - Purdue votes Crim
1234 - Purdue unvotes Crim
1237 - Purdue votes Crim, first vote
1247 - Eagle votes Cronin, first vote
1266 - Crim (by e-mail) votes Cronin, first player to two votes
1281 - Raiders votes Hoops, tying with Cronin
1282 - Chief votes RendeR, first vote
1284 - Olie votes RendeR, three way tie at two votes w/Cronin and Hoops
1287 - Hoops votes Path, first vote
1289 - RendeR unvotes Cronin, votes Rum (don't think he had voted yet ...), first vote for Rum
1296 - Cronin unvotes Hoops, votes Rum. Still three way tie with Cronin, RendeR, and Chief
1315 - Raiders unvotes Hoops, votes RendeR. This puts RendeR as first to three votes
1318 - Pass votes Path, giving him his 2nd vote
1321 - MrDNA votes Path, tying him with RendeR atop the leader board
1350 - Purdue unvotes Crim
1366 - Purdue votes Rum, three way tie with Path and RendeR now. Note - RendeR does not post at deadline, do not believe he was around. This passes the deciding vote to Path, barring any vote changes
1372 - Path votes for Chief, putting him on line for lynch
1375 - EagleFan unvotes Cronin, votes Path, creating a 4-4 tie between Path and Chief

Vote and unvote information from Day 5. I know I did one of these earlier on Day 1 as well at some point ...

[hoopsguy]

Let's see if this works:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 240pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=320 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=5 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=17></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>D1</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>D3</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>D4</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>D5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Path</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RPI</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Purdue</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Chief</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Purdue</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Alan</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Torgo</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Cronin</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Chief</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>RendeR</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Torgo</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Cronin</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Chief</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Chief</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">No Vote</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RendeR</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RendeR</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Cronin</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RPI</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Telle</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Chief</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Olie</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Neon</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Telle</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RendeR</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>DNA</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Alan</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Olie</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">No Vote</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Path</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Eagle</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Raiders</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Purdue</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Purdue</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Path</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Pass</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Chief</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Telle</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Path</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Raiders</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Eagle</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RendeR</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Hoops</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RPI</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Purdue</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Cronin</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Path</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Arlington</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">DNA</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">No Vote</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bug</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">No Vote</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Summary of votes. Wolf votes, and votes from villagers matching the wolf votes are color-coded.

Note that I think that voting with the wolves is more likely to be a villager action (kind of counter-intuitive) - the wolves will, unless one of their own is under fire, want to keep their votes as distributed as possible to avoid easy categorization of wolves.

[hoopsguy]

RendeR - 3. oliegirl (1607), Hoops (1633), Raiders (1638)

hoopsguy - 1 Passacaglia (1573)

Olie - 1 RendeR (1619)

DNA - 1 Cronin (1641)

Pass - 1 Eagle (1660)

Arlingtoncolt-1- (chiefrum)

Day 6 final votes. I never did a vote movement chart with this one, but it isn't all that many posts to review if you are interested in doing so.

[hoopsguy]

Arlington Colt 5- st.cronin (1696), EagleFan (1733), oliegirl (1756), Raiders (1761), Pass (1776)

Passacaglia 2- Arlington (1764), hoopsguy (1771)

Votes from Day 7.

[sebastian0622]

Well I'm not quite sure what to say. It's getting close to the deadline and I'm still waiting on the mod PM before I can do much.

[hoopsguy]

Well, how about talking about your thoughts on where the vote currently stands - can you do that without having the answer to your PM? Because that would seem like a good "deadline isn't too far out" topic ...

[Passacaglia]

The problem is -- what if he's a wolf?

[hoopsguy]

I always would prefer to have a running conversation rather than nothing - wolf, villager, undecided. In some cases, especially with a wolf.

For example, I've directed more conversation at you than just about anyone else over last couple of days :)

[Passacaglia]

I always would prefer to have a running conversation rather than nothing - wolf, villager, undecided. In some cases, especially with a wolf.

For example, I've directed more conversation at you than just about anyone else over last couple of days :)

I'm talking about things from his side -- he might like to know what side he's on before he starts spouting off.

[Passacaglia]

Do we still have deadline tonight?

[hoopsguy]

Not sure - but I haven't seen our moderator around at all tonight.

[EagleFan]

oliegirl - 1 Pass (1838)
Pass - 3 hoopsguy (1796) oliegirl (1801) cronin (1821)


Just a quick look at where we stand

[EagleFan]

vote oliegirl

[EagleFan]

oliegirl - 2 Pass (1838) EagleFan (1887)
Pass - 3 hoopsguy (1796) oliegirl (1801) cronin (1821)

Update

[hoopsguy]

I'm hopeful that we have two wolves in the voting crossfire here, as it will make it impossible for them to manipulate the vote to a villager.

However, if that isn't the case then 3-2 is a bad margin, just begging for a last-second switch.

[EagleFan]

who here doesn't trust cronin?

[EagleFan]

I suspected him at one point and he really hasn't cleared his name in my opinion, the attention was just moved elsewhere.

[hoopsguy]

Sebastian - are you going to be able to participate in the vote today if you don't hear back from our illustrious moderator? Because we are closing in on the witching hour.

As Alan T (who is currently watching this game) can attest, Pass knows all about the late vote-switch to pull off the wolf win :mad:

[hoopsguy]

I suspected him at one point and he really hasn't cleared his name in my opinion, the attention was just moved elsewhere.

I trusted him enough to give him the item last night, as he mentioned earlier in the thread. I hope that he did what he felt he needed to do with the item today.

[EagleFan]

unvote oliegirl

[EagleFan]

vote Pass

I hope I wasn't just conned by hoops and cronin

[Lathum]

ok, I had one foot out the door when sebastian jumped in and I forget to send him an opening PM.

I will extend the deadline by 30 minutes so he can have his say.

[hoopsguy]

No con here - hope that I'm right in all three of us being villagers.

Hope the Cubs can get the last out of their ballgame right now, Dempster looks like a total turd at the moment.

[hoopsguy]

Cubs take 5-1 lead with 3 in top of 9th, game ends with bases-loaded groundout, 5-3 final. Cards - 4 hits in first 8 innings against Big Z, 5 in 9th against Dempster and Howry.

Now that I'm done watching that near-trainwreck I can return my attention to this trainwreck.

[EagleFan]

Glad the Phillies got their last out in the game. 5 straight over the Mets now, including teh 4 game sweep a couple weeks agi. Gotta LOVE that!!!

[EagleFan]

dola: Wow, bad typos there... lousy keyboard... :)

[sebastian0622]

I'm here, having a hard time getting my head around tonight's vote on short notice, but I know I feel pretty good about a Pass vote. I'll put that in for now and see if I find anything that makes me change it in the next 15 minutes.

Vote Pass

[Passacaglia]

Just got back. Eagle, why do you toy with me so? What's up with the late LATE vote switches? Do you intend to keep your vote on me? If so, why all the theatrics about it?

[Passacaglia]

Well that pretty much ends the game right there, I'm guessing.

[Passacaglia]

I'll hang around, and hope EagleFan shows up, or that sebastian changes his mind.

[EagleFan]

Just got back. Eagle, why do you toy with me so?

Everyone needs a hobby? ;)


My statement about cronin still stands if there is enough evidence and enough backing to go that way.

[Passacaglia]

sebastian, hoops puts in a lot of analysis into this game, and it makes him a great villager -- it also makes him a dangerous wolf. Just because he puts in the posts doesn't make him more trustworthy. I may be a little off in my pushes today, but I'm in a much worse position than he is. Even with cronin's statement, I still suspect hoops a little, so if you guys are inclined to vote that way, I'm game.

[EagleFan]

At this point I am but a pawn as I have not had the time due to major work load the past few days to do the research for the votes that I would have liked. If it's not game over tonight I sure as hell am going to look into this a bit more tomorrow and tonight.

If I just helped oust a villager, I am sorry and was played quite well by the wolves (and my own newbie mistakes).

[Passacaglia]

If you really don't want to be conned by hoops and cronin, we can fix that.

[st.cronin]

I put in a conditional order to give my club away at deadline depending on the lynch victim.

[sebastian0622]

I haven't cleared hoops. At all. Whether Pass has a muzzle will be a big factor on whether or not hoops has another two days of his life left.

[Passacaglia]

I haven't cleared hoops. At all. Whether Pass has a muzzle will be a big factor on whether or not hoops has another two days of his life left.

Let's do it.

UNVOTE OLIEGIRL
VOTE HOOPSGUY

[EagleFan]

I have been "riding" you pretty hard the past few nights Pass. At this point I don't even remember where it started. I don;t know how personal people take this game so I want to at least clear it up that there is nothing personal meant by any of my statements (don't think I said anything that could be seen as a personal attack but wanted to get that out just in case).

If I recall, it initially started by what seemed like (in my opinion at least) a very defensive response to a vote against you. I'll have to look back now to see.

[Passacaglia]

I have been "riding" you pretty hard the past few nights Pass. At this point I don't even remember where it started. I don;t know how personal people take this game so I want to at least clear it up that there is nothing personal meant by any of my statements (don't think I said anything that could be seen as a personal attack but wanted to get that out just in case).

If I recall, it initially started by what seemed like (in my opinion at least) a very defensive response to a vote against you. I'll have to look back now to see.

Don't worry about anything personal. It's all about the game right now -- just move your vote to hoops, and all will be well for the village.

[Lathum]

2 minutes until deadline

[sebastian0622]

What I really want to know is how Hoops decided that Pass is more suspicious than Arlington? Hoops?

[Passacaglia]

Look, y'all could at least tell me if you don't plan on switching, so I don't have to keep hitting refresh! :)

[Passacaglia]

What I really want to know is how Hoops decided that Pass is more suspicious than Arlington? Hoops?

Good question.

[Passacaglia]

Especially considering I'm the only one who DIDN'T vote for him. Remember that.

[sebastian0622]

If I die tonight, I just want to point out that Rum was on Arlington and then he (Rum) was killed immediately. That's when the whole pass bandwagon started. If I go down tonight, take a good look at the hoops/Arlington/St Cronin trio.

If Pass is a wolf and I survive, this is all moot.

[Lathum]

deadline

[EagleFan]

Not switching Pass, sorry. Really sorry if that ends up biting the villagers in the butt.

[sebastian0622]

So villagers can't talk now, right? (sorry, I'm new)

[st.cronin]

Um, Arlington is dead already.

[EagleFan]

If I die tonight, I just want to point out that Rum was on Arlington and then he (Rum) was killed immediately. That's when the whole pass bandwagon started. If I go down tonight, take a good look at the hoops/Arlington/St Cronin trio.

If Pass is a wolf and I survive, this is all moot.

But Arlington wasn't a wolf.

[Neon_Chaos]

:)

[EagleFan]

uh oh

[Passacaglia]

I have been "riding" you pretty hard the past few nights Pass. At this point I don't even remember where it started. I don;t know how personal people take this game so I want to at least clear it up that there is nothing personal meant by any of my statements (don't think I said anything that could be seen as a personal attack but wanted to get that out just in case).

If I recall, it initially started by what seemed like (in my opinion at least) a very defensive response to a vote against you. I'll have to look back now to see.

To get back to this -- nothing personal was ever taken by me. It's just a game. I've seen a lot of blow-ups in my werewolf career, but that always bugs me -- it's not something to get worked up over. I didn't really see myself as defensive, rather just asking for reasoning behind your vote, but that's just a difference of opinion, which is all part of the game. I hope my perceived defensiveness didn't ruin the game for you in any way -- it was all just part of the game for me.

[Lathum]

hoopsguy - 1 Pass (1911)
Pass - 5 hoopsguy (1796) oliegirl (1801) cronin (1821) EagleFan (1895) sebastian (1901)

[sebastian0622]

Um, Arlington is dead already.

Ah, forgot that. It's been a long game. That's a dead end road, then.

[st.cronin]

Note: I did NOT pass my golf club to Neon Chaos.

[hoopsguy]

I've got a post on Arlington vs Pass earlier - will dig it up if we are still playing after Lathum posts results.

Hope that we got a wolf today.

[EagleFan]

To get back to this -- nothing personal was ever taken by me. It's just a game. I've seen a lot of blow-ups in my werewolf career, but that always bugs me -- it's not something to get worked up over. I didn't really see myself as defensive, rather just asking for reasoning behind your vote, but that's just a difference of opinion, which is all part of the game. I hope my perceived defensiveness didn't ruin the game for you in any way -- it was all just part of the game for me.

Nope, not ruining the game. Actually your perceived defensiveness I read as more of a wolf being defensive about the vote. From there I was just having a little bit of fun and hope it didn't just cost the game for the villagers.

[Lathum]

You all feel confident about tonights choice. The remaining few of you rush Passacaglia and begin to bludgeon him with coffee mugs. He begins to change to a wolf, you all remember what happened with Purduebrad and make his end swift.

Passacaglia was a wolf!!

[EagleFan]

Yeah!!! Nice work villagers.

[EagleFan]

I got nervous when NC posted a smile.

[st.cronin]

All 6 players are here!

[sebastian0622]

Woohoo! Good work, folks! Between Hoopsguy pushing hard to Pass (away from villager AC last night) and him leading the charge today, he's gained some trust in my eyes.

Next deadline Monday?

[Lathum]

You all awake the next morning, confident it may be over, but alas, you realize you are still living in this nightmare when you find Hoopsguys mangled body.


Day 9 has begun.

[hoopsguy]

Let the record show I also pushed for Path. I hope that I've earned a little frigging trust around here by now?

Hope I'm around to continue posting tomorrow. Hope Cronin worked his mojo with the golf club so we all return for another day.

[Lathum]

I am out for the night, I'll take all suggestions for the weekend schedule.

[hoopsguy]

D'oh - take it down, villagers.

[Neon_Chaos]

D'oh - take it down, villagers.

Yo dead, tough guy. ;)

[sebastian0622]

I'll be around over the weekend, so I would go for a deadline tomorrow night if all other players will be around.

[EagleFan]

Hmm, so it's me, oliegirl (who I am not sure about), cronin (who I have suspected) and sebastian (who is just now in the game). This is not going to be an easy choice.

I will have to start the next day by going with my earlier thought process which is that oliegirl was teamed up with Pass.

vote oliegirl

[EagleFan]

I'm fine with a deadline tomorrow as well if oliegirl and cronin are.

[st.cronin]

Vote Oliegirl

I am confident that one way or another this vote will end the game. One wolf left, guys. Don't screw this up.

[st.cronin]

Tomorrow's deadline is fine with me.

[EagleFan]

unvote oliegirl

[Lathum]

ok, we are gonna go with a 10:30PM deadline tomorrow.

[EagleFan]

I am confident that one way or another this vote will end the game. One wolf left, guys. Don't screw this up.

Time to examine this statement.

The only way anyone could really be truly confident in this statement is if they were the wolf (and still had the golf club). They would then know that either they are lynched tomorrow or their night kill ends the game after a villager is lynched.

Again, maybe over-examing the statement but it is something to think about. Especially someone who says thay at least had possession of the club.



To breakdown the remaining players:
Cronin: would want to take out hoops last night as hoops would now gain trust from the other players for the Pass vote making hoops and myself a strong block

oliegirl: would not know who had the club between the remaining villagers if Pass gets voted out and would most likely attack DNA who was at that time the other player since it would be less likely that something would be passed to an inactive player

Sebastian: Would not really know who to go for so it may have been a tossup with him just joining today and having very little time to decide his action

[Chief Rum]

Let the record show I also pushed for Path. I hope that I've earned a little frigging trust around here by now?

Hope I'm around to continue posting tomorrow. Hope Cronin worked his mojo with the golf club so we all return for another day.

I trust you hoops.

[hoopsguy]

I <3 Chief

[Raiders Army]

I still don't trust you. ;)

[hoopsguy]

I make it a point never to trust a Raiders fan ;)

[oliegirl]

I will be in and out today, will check in when I can.

I will be happy to pass my serving tray to a known villager if all us villagers can agree on which known villagers should get it...but we would also have to agree that doing that would have to clear me as a villager and ensure I don't get lynched tonight.

[st.cronin]

Time to examine this statement.

The only way anyone could really be truly confident in this statement is if they were the wolf (and still had the golf club). They would then know that either they are lynched tomorrow or their night kill ends the game after a villager is lynched.

Again, maybe over-examing the statement but it is something to think about. Especially someone who says thay at least had possession of the club.



To breakdown the remaining players:
Cronin: would want to take out hoops last night as hoops would now gain trust from the other players for the Pass vote making hoops and myself a strong block

oliegirl: would not know who had the club between the remaining villagers if Pass gets voted out and would most likely attack DNA who was at that time the other player since it would be less likely that something would be passed to an inactive player

Sebastian: Would not really know who to go for so it may have been a tossup with him just joining today and having very little time to decide his action

EagleFan, with 4 players left, there can be only one wolf. I would prefer not to discuss the golf club, as its our last ace left. Let's keep the wolf guessing as to where it is. Hint: The wolf will be arguing to lynch the player they think has the club.

Also, why would I want to take out hoops? Hoops passed me the club, and he was probably the only player left who fully trusted me.

[sebastian0622]

Well I trust EagleFan some. If he's hairy, he's played a good game. Unless I find something alarming when I look back over the thread, he's safe.

Olliegirl is looking pretty hairy right about now (going back to her vote activity in the midgame, and I think she's trying to hard with the item claim), but St. Cronin isn't out of the woods.

[oliegirl]

I'm not sure if I will be back tonight, getting my vote in now.


VOTE ST.CRONIN

[sebastian0622]

What you think, EagleFan?

[st.cronin]

EagleFan's been awol most of the day. I was expecting some discussion about the relative merits of oliegirl vs. somebody else, but ... its been awful quiet.

[EagleFan]

Sorry, been tied up this evening.

st.cronin had me suspicious a few days in while oliegirl I have to dig a little harder to see where she would become a suspect. My gut was that it may have been hoops/cronin or Pass/oliegirl but the hoops kill last night still screams of cronin to me for some reason. Pluse I don't care much for his statement about today's vote ending the as a certainty. Granted there is a good chance of it but I don;t think a villager would say as certain. Again, maybe I am overthinking.

[EagleFan]

vote oliegirl

going with hoops gut at passing cronin the club and my most recent Pass/oliegirl suspect combination (hope the gut feeling doesn't kill me now).

[EagleFan]

unvote oliegirl

vote cronin

Just going over day one and his late change to RPI screams wolf, especially after his early statement about if he were to change it would be to NC. Adding that he would have incentive to off hoops last night after my statement that I thought it was Pass and oliegirl, he would want to keep me alive if I was thinikng that way.

[EagleFan]

oliegiel - 1 cronin (1946)
cronin - 2 oliegirl (1958) Eaglefan (1963)

[st.cronin]

EagleFan, about day 1: I said I would change to Neon because I was on the block, and he was most likely to be lynched. That was before his "reveal." Why would I switch to him AFTER the reveal? That's what you have to remember, I was tied for second at the time of his reveal.

1 additional point in my favor: I was blocked by the bartender on consecutive nights when there were wolf kills.

And 1 damning point against oliegirl: There was NO way she was going to be targeted last night, so why does she still have the serving tray?

[EagleFan]

Last second decisions now... you make some valid points in that post. I forgot about he bartender block.

[EagleFan]

unvote cronin

[EagleFan]

dola: dam, I am trhe king of the last second changes in this thing, probably driving people insane by now.

[st.cronin]

The thing about the serving tray seems really obvious to me, if you had the serving tray, and most players were suspicious of you, wouldn't you hand it off, to try to block a kill? And yet she still has it.

[EagleFan]

I could say the same about the golf club... :)

[EagleFan]

vote oliegirl

[EagleFan]

dola: Can I claim that I am using this strategy so that if I ever actually am a wolf any late vote changes won't make me look suspicious (it'll be, that's just EF). ;)

[st.cronin]

I could say the same about the golf club... :)

You think I still have the golf club?

[st.cronin]

sebastian only has a few minutes, hope he makes it in

[EagleFan]

If you're the wolf, it doesn't matter. If you passsed it to the wolf, it doesn't matter. If you passed it to a villager or have it yourself, why not keep the real wolf guessing who has it between us. (If Sebastian ends up being the wild card wolf in this).

[EagleFan]

but I guess with him being MIA at the moment it really doesn;t matter much about the golf club talk...

[EagleFan]

No Lathum, he did say tonight right?

[st.cronin]

ok, we are gonna go with a 10:30PM deadline tomorrow.

Lathum posted this last night.

[EagleFan]

Whatever the outcome, if this truly is the last night. Good game all. Win or lose, I think we did well as villagers with what seemed like so many obstacles to overcome with the seer being lynched night one.

[EagleFan]

no vote by Sebastian makes me curious about him. If he is the vote, he would see there is no vote movement on him tonight so just let the villagers vote one off in a 2-1 vote and then pikck one of us off in the night phase.

[st.cronin]

no vote by Sebastian makes me curious about him. If he is the vote, he would see there is no vote movement on him tonight so just let the villagers vote one off in a 2-1 vote and then pikck one of us off in the night phase.

I don't think he's a wolf, I think he's a villager who didn't know how to vote today, and then just missed the deadline for some reason.

[EagleFan]

I don't think he's a wolf, I think he's a villager who didn't know how to vote today, and then just missed the deadline for some reason.

I'm just overthinking.

For the record, I switched to oliegirl because of the night 5 vote. If you end up being a wolf then I take my hats off to the wolves as that means night 5 was a very well orchestrated move.

[EagleFan]

For the record, I think I made a mistake with my vote tonight... I totally ignored my earlier thoughts in this game by that vote.

[EagleFan]

On a different note.... Damn, these corn#uckers really suck.... :D

[st.cronin]

No mistake, Eagle, I'm a villager. There was never any argument against me that made any sense.

[EagleFan]

Oh well, it was a fun game no matter how it ends...

[oliegirl]

ef, you are going to cost us the game, I'm a villager...you need to change your vote to cronin if its not too late.

I offered earlier to hand off the serving tray but no one replied...so you can't use that I still have it against me.

[Lathum]

hey all, I just got home.

Real life interviened

[sebastian0622]

Sorry, Saturday night dinner and cocktails and forgot the deadline was so early. No mod yet, so...

Vote: Oliegirl

I'm with eagles in saying that, if St. Cronin is the wolf (and he'd be my #2 vote), he just played a hell of a game, and beat us fair and square.

[sebastian0622]

And if Eagles is the wolf, then just **** me runnin'!

[st.cronin]

And if Eagles is the wolf, then just **** me runnin'!

Ditto to that. I'll be pretty amazed if that turns out to be the case.

[sebastian0622]

Lots of cocktails tonight. Anyone who saw a good-looking (until this week) 2-0 Iowa team lose to an Iowa State team that came it at 0-2 with losses to FRIGGEN KENT STATE AND NORTHERN IOWA would understand.

[Lathum]

You all gather around 4 of you left and try and determine who the last wolf is.


The 3 men gang up on Oliegirl and despitest. her protests determine she is the last wolf. They quickly overcome her and St.Cronin strangles her until she is limp.

She remains in human form. Suddenly St.Cronin changes form in an instant and jumps on Sebastian and rips his throat out. EagleFan tries to run but St.Cronin is thirsty for blood and he quickly pounces on him and begins to eat him while he is still alive.

St.Cronin then turns and slinks out of the room, in search of another club and more victims.

GAME OVER, WOLVES WIN

[Alan T]

Nice job Cronin :)

[st.cronin]

:D

[Neon_Chaos]

VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:d

KICK-ASS ST.CRO.

[RendeR]

I TOLD YOU ALL HE WAS A WOLF ON DAY ONE!!!!!!!!


sheEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeshhh


Good game cronin. You fooled everyone for a long time. Next game I'm not going to relax until you get hung....;)

[Lathum]

I will accept all questions about the game but I'll be out most of tomorrow.

First off I hope everyone had fun.

Secondly I owe RPIFan a public apology. In his opening PM I neglected to tell him he was the seer, this in no way effected the game. If RPIFan had countered it either would have been to late or he would have been an immedeate night kill candidate. As it was he was the wolves night 1 target ( they can confirm this) so it really didn't matter. I asked him to keep it under wraps at the time because I didn't want it to detract from the game.

[st.cronin]

This may be hard to believe, but this is the first game where, as a wolf, I was one of the last players standing. I've been a surviving winner as a villager (several times), but as a wolf I almost always get lynched within the first two or three days.

Thanks for running the game, Lathum. I had a lot of fun.

[st.cronin]

As it was he was the wolves night 1 target ( they can confirm this) so it really didn't matter.

This is correct. Specifically, the order was, if Neon is lynched, kill RPI. If Neon is not lynched, kill Neon.