Front Office Football 2007, Version 6.1 - Page 2

Solecismic · 09-21-2007, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I'll send a PM to avoid getting a side-tracked discussion in this thread.
Edit: Hmm, apparently I can't PM the Solecismic account...

I shut off PMs because I can go a long time without signing in due to the cache bug with the forum. Normally, I lurk without signing in.

Just send email to support. It reaches me fairly quickly.

By the way, I have updated 6.1 to address pieces of the 34 issue. I don't think the blitz/coverage issue is ever going to be perfect with the current game planning, but I'd like the 34 to be a solid choice for linebacker-heavy teams.

While reviewing all the pieces of how this works, I found something I didn't like affecting the usefulness of nickel and dime backs, period. One of those little things that would never show up as a visible bug, but important to the engine, nonetheless.

It's still called version 6.1, but I've changed the internal versioning so that it will install seamlessly over this afternoon's release if you've already updated.

Eventually, I'd like to see defensive scheming reach the point where you can run New England's elephant and castle (Wilfork and a caderie of linebackers) and have it perform like you'd expect. Again, I think the engine itself can handle this nicely, but there just isn't the variety of input yet.

Some day, you're going to be able to learn and see the difference between zero-technique tackles with two-gap assignments and three-technique tackles assigned to the B-gap. In the NFL, these are very, very different roles. In FOF, there's really no difference.

MIJB#19 · 09-21-2007, 02:35 AM

Sending an email instead in about 5 mins.

EagleFan · 09-21-2007, 03:00 AM

Thanks Jim

Vinatieri for Prez · 09-21-2007, 03:17 AM

Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

Icy · 09-21-2007, 03:31 AM

So Jim, do we need to download again the 6.1 patch and is it updated with those 3-4 defense fixes or is it something you are going to release in the future?

Ben E Lou · 09-21-2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

From further looks at draft classes generated by 6.1, I *think* what's going on here is that the limits for scout error have been lowered for new players, too. Jim would have to verify if he chooses to do so, but in the first few classes I looked at, it appears that guys are less obfuscated than in 6.0e. At this point, this is still very much in the impression/hypothesis stage, but it would certainly be a logical way to do it.

Subby · 09-21-2007, 07:58 AM

Just FYI - the in game FTP still doesn't work...

QuikSand · 09-21-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

By the way, I have updated 6.1 to address pieces of the 34 issue. I don't think the blitz/coverage issue is ever going to be perfect with the current game planning, but I'd like the 34 to be a solid choice for linebacker-heavy teams.

While reviewing all the pieces of how this works, I found something I didn't like affecting the usefulness of nickel and dime backs, period. One of those little things that would never show up as a visible bug, but important to the engine, nonetheless.

Can you give us a little more guidance here? If we want to run a 3-4 defense, should we now be looking for actual cover men to play in the nickel (and dime) slots? Or will they still largely be playing basically a DE role?

Wolfy · 09-21-2007, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the continued updates !

Gallifrey · 09-21-2007, 11:31 AM

Thanks! This is great....as usual.

Passacaglia · 09-21-2007, 12:39 PM

I still want TCY2.

hi jbmagic

st.cronin · 09-21-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I still want TCY2.

hi jbmagic

+1

jkat · 09-21-2007, 01:18 PM

The 3-4 Nickel looks good. Refreshing to see the WLBs from Pittsburgh, San Diego, and the like putting up some very solid overall pass rush statistics.

Solecismic · 09-21-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Can you give us a little more guidance here? If we want to run a 3-4 defense, should we now be looking for actual cover men to play in the nickel (and dime) slots? Or will they still largely be playing basically a DE role?

Yes, absolutely, the nickel and dime should be in coverage on all plays now. The dime was, but wasn't playing effectively (for the 43, either). The 34 nickel was rushing, though, and that is no longer the case.

hyde4us11 · 09-21-2007, 01:22 PM

Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

Ben E Lou · 09-21-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyde4us11

Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

It's the full game file. Yes.

Solecismic · 09-21-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

Scouting error in general is higher on younger players. That doesn't necessarily hold true for every individual player.

Scouting error was reduced. The reduction was general, not specific to any group or position.

hyde4us11 · 09-21-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

It's the full game file. Yes.

Thanks for your quick reply

Solecismic · 09-21-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougW

Thanks Jim. Too many companies just release, and get to making the next one as fast as possible - and don't take the time to improve the product since they've already made their money off it. You're continued effort on this series has made me repeat customer, and most likely will be for life.

Thanks again.

Thanks. I appreciate this.

Celeval · 09-21-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyde4us11

Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

To clarify - you don't need to uninstall; just install right over top.

stevew · 09-21-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

No. This is just to give commissioners a chance to check things and make a quick fix before simming.

Shucks. Maybe at some point could this be added? I think it would be great to be able to control 4 or 5 teams in a single player. But i do understand if it may at some point cause unintended bugs/exploits to occur.

Solecismic · 09-21-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Shucks. Maybe at some point could this be added? I think it would be great to be able to control 4 or 5 teams in a single player. But i do understand if it may at some point cause unintended bugs/exploits to occur.

It's disappointing to see people upset when I put out an update. I try to throw in something new every now and then, but the real purpose is to fix bugs and keep the game fresh.

That feature is not possible with the current data structure, which makes it far beyond anything I'd ever try with an update.

1986 Giants · 09-21-2007, 02:53 PM

Darn it, I did NOT want to have to register here and start hanging around in these forums now, but here I am anyway.

I needed to search for topics that I don't understand yet, so I had to bite the bullet. There will be no Hall of Fame status, or whatever it's called, on these boards for me. I simply forbid myself!

I will devote my maiden post just to saying thanks for a great game and the update which I stumbled across just now. I am very impressed so far. I'm hooked on FOF, I must say.

But I'm not talking any more about it! For a while.

stevew · 09-21-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It's disappointing to see people upset when I put out an update. I try to throw in something new every now and then, but the real purpose is to fix bugs and keep the game fresh.

That feature is not possible with the current data structure, which makes it far beyond anything I'd ever try with an update.

Oh, trust me, I'm not mad. I appreciate the work you do.

Sweed · 09-21-2007, 05:08 PM

Thanks Jim for the update, a very nice surprise.

FBPro · 09-21-2007, 05:48 PM

Fantastic, keep up the good work.

QuikSand · 09-21-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Yes, absolutely, the nickel and dime should be in coverage on all plays now. The dime was, but wasn't playing effectively (for the 43, either). The 34 nickel was rushing, though, and that is no longer the case.

Great to hear, thanks.

Capital · 09-21-2007, 07:10 PM

I have been playing this quite a bit lately, and this was indeed a surprise.

ReiperXHC · 09-21-2007, 07:25 PM

Yeah, I gotta' admit, I "love" how these updates just pop up out of nowhere...I'm so used to Madden and such I didn't even expect there'd actually "be" another update. Love what you did with the combine scores btw, Jim.

-Reip

abal1221 · 09-21-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReiperXHC

I'm so used to Madden and such I didn't even expect there'd actually "be" another update.

There are updates to Madden every year. You just gotta pay $60 for them

Nogram · 09-21-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Various tweaks to engine, especially passing game, to better fit 2006 professional football numbers.

Can you please provide some additional details on this tweak?

Thanks,

Nogram

Raiders Army · 09-21-2007, 10:48 PM

This is a good deal.

Subby · 09-22-2007, 12:36 AM

Thanks for the update Jim - I really appreciate the countless hours you put into supporting my favorite game...

EagleFan · 09-22-2007, 01:18 AM

Why isn't this stickied?

Ben E Lou · 09-22-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Why isn't this stickied?

Heh. I don't think it has been below #3 or so on the page, so I just didn't think to sticky it. Done.

CraigSca · 09-22-2007, 06:20 AM

Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct?

Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work

wade moore · 09-22-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct?

Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work

I think it means that FOF (Like Analyzer) is comparing to some sort of global average. I.E. it's not how much better they are than the people in their draft class, but how much better they are than your average Safety/CB.

But I'm guessing, I'm not 100% sure on that. When I look in analyzer only 3 safeties have more than 2 standard deviations above the norm for Broad Jump. only 5 above 1 standard deviation.

But idano, that seems like the norm across all of the positions so maybe i'm crazy.

Sgt Tomorrow · 09-22-2007, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Shucks. Maybe at some point could this be added? I think it would be great to be able to control 4 or 5 teams in a single player. But i do understand if it may at some point cause unintended bugs/exploits to occur.

To accomplish what you want, why dont you start a new mp league and just set up your game to the teams you want to control by the "enter new career" option?

ReiperXHC · 09-22-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Heh. I don't think it has been below #3 or so on the page, so I just didn't think to sticky it. Done.

The only time (before now) that I've seen it below "or above I guess" #1 was whenever I posted something to a different thread lol.

Ben E Lou · 09-22-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct?

Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

I think it means that FOF (Like Analyzer) is comparing to some sort of global average. I.E. it's not how much better they are than the people in their draft class, but how much better they are than your average Safety/CB.

But I'm guessing, I'm not 100% sure on that. When I look in analyzer only 3 safeties have more than 2 standard deviations above the norm for Broad Jump. only 5 above 1 standard deviation.

But idano, that seems like the norm across all of the positions so maybe i'm crazy.

Just looked at a game-generated draft class, all but four safeties, and all but three CBs are green (poor). My guess here at first glance is that there's a bug in how the colors are assigned for broad jump for defensive backs. Heading to check other positions and to generate a few more drafts to verify...

Ben E Lou · 09-22-2007, 08:04 AM

At first pass, it looks like a bug with CBs, Ss, and WRs, and probably RBs. There are two CBs in the first 6.1-generated draft class I looked at who had 10'1" broad jumps (tied for 4th-best in the entire draft class), but who only got black coloring. I'll sim forward and generate another class or two before putting it in the bug thread.

Ben E Lou · 09-22-2007, 08:20 AM

Yeah. Either CBs and Ss need some exceptional scores, or they're not getting fully fair treatment. I've checked three 6.1-generated classes now, and have yet to see a single blue or red CB or S broad jump result.

Ben E Lou · 09-22-2007, 08:26 AM

Heh...given the positions in questions, it just hit me that this may not be a bug at all.

Dutch · 09-22-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Heh...given the positions in questions, it just hit me that this may not be a bug at all.

That was my first thought when reading through this.

Ben E Lou · 09-22-2007, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

That was my first thought when reading through this.

You're quicker than me.

.
I've logged it as a "potential" bug, because certainly on the surface it makes it look like something's wrong. Although, yeah, it may be just fine and working as intended.

MizzouRah · 09-22-2007, 11:48 AM

Are we supposed to re-download the patch?

Dutch · 09-22-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

You're quicker than me.

.
I've logged it as a "potential" bug, because certainly on the surface it makes it look like something's wrong. Although, yeah, it may be just fine and working as intended.

Right. Of course, I base all my theory's on hunches...and hunches are both cheap and quick.

QuikSand · 09-22-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

# Try and ensure nickel and dime backs don't blitz, and change the replaced linebacker in the 3-4 to the strong-side, since the weak-side linebacker is involved in the pass rush. This will give 3-4 teams a more sensible way to use the depth chart.

Will this change cause a compatibility problem for teams in MP leagues if the owner is using one version, and the commissioner uses another for running the sim? (i.e. Will the 6.1 game be able to handle a depth chart submitted in 6.0e with a SLB in the depth chart, and vice versa?)

Dutch · 09-22-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Right. Of course, I base all my theory's on hunches...and hunches are both cheap and quick.

I see SD already made mention of this in the bug thread. I just looked at my first draft class in SP. When 95% of my WR's were "green" in Broad Jump, I realized that there was probably something out of whack there.

So SD, your back in the lead with the good quicks.

michael1123 · 09-22-2007, 11:28 PM

I love the update, but can you please make it so that a defense never lines up in a goal line formation in a passing down outside of their redzone?

I'm having the computer set my gameplans, and typically they do a great job, but multiple times each game the offense is in an obvious passing down (3rd and 20 while I'm up by 2 touchdowns) and my defense lines up in goal line formation and allows a 25+ yard pass.

Its really rather ridiculous. Please fix this!

Its the only major error I see in AI gameplanning week in and week out.

09-21-2007, 02:35 AM	#52
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	Sending an email instead in about 5 mins. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

09-21-2007, 03:31 AM	#55
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	So Jim, do we need to download again the 6.1 patch and is it updated with those 3-4 defense fixes or is it something you are going to release in the future? __________________

09-21-2007, 07:58 AM	#57
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Just FYI - the in game FTP still doesn't work... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com Last edited by Subby : 09-21-2007 at 09:14 AM.

09-21-2007, 01:22 PM	#65
hyde4us11 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2007	call me stupid lol Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

09-21-2007, 05:48 PM	#76
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	Fantastic, keep up the good work. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

09-21-2007, 03:00 AM	#53
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Thanks Jim

09-21-2007, 03:17 AM	#54
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

09-21-2007, 11:12 AM	#59
Wolfy n00b Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Coastal SC	Thanks for the continued updates !

09-21-2007, 11:31 AM	#60
Gallifrey High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Seattle, Washington	Thanks! This is great....as usual.

09-21-2007, 12:39 PM	#61
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I still want TCY2. hi jbmagic

09-21-2007, 01:18 PM	#63
jkat n00b Join Date: Aug 2007	The 3-4 Nickel looks good. Refreshing to see the WLBs from Pittsburgh, San Diego, and the like putting up some very solid overall pass rush statistics.

09-21-2007, 02:53 PM	#73
1986 Giants n00b Join Date: Sep 2007	Darn it, I did NOT want to have to register here and start hanging around in these forums now, but here I am anyway. I needed to search for topics that I don't understand yet, so I had to bite the bullet. There will be no Hall of Fame status, or whatever it's called, on these boards for me. I simply forbid myself! I will devote my maiden post just to saying thanks for a great game and the update which I stumbled across just now. I am very impressed so far. I'm hooked on FOF, I must say. But I'm not talking any more about it! For a while.

09-21-2007, 05:08 PM	#75
Sweed College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	Thanks Jim for the update, a very nice surprise.

09-21-2007, 07:10 PM	#78
Capital High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000	I have been playing this quite a bit lately, and this was indeed a surprise.

09-21-2007, 07:25 PM	#79
ReiperXHC n00b Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Carpentersville, IL (Chicago)	Yeah, I gotta' admit, I "love" how these updates just pop up out of nowhere...I'm so used to Madden and such I didn't even expect there'd actually "be" another update. Love what you did with the combine scores btw, Jim. -Reip __________________

09-21-2007, 10:48 PM	#82
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	This is a good deal.

09-22-2007, 12:36 AM	#83
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Thanks for the update Jim - I really appreciate the countless hours you put into supporting my favorite game... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

09-22-2007, 01:18 AM	#84
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Why isn't this stickied?

09-22-2007, 06:20 AM	#86
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct? Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

09-22-2007, 08:04 AM	#91
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	At first pass, it looks like a bug with CBs, Ss, and WRs, and probably RBs. There are two CBs in the first 6.1-generated draft class I looked at who had 10'1" broad jumps (tied for 4th-best in the entire draft class), but who only got black coloring. I'll sim forward and generate another class or two before putting it in the bug thread. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

09-22-2007, 08:20 AM	#92
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Yeah. Either CBs and Ss need some exceptional scores, or they're not getting fully fair treatment. I've checked three 6.1-generated classes now, and have yet to see a single blue or red CB or S broad jump result. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

09-22-2007, 08:26 AM	#93
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Heh...given the positions in questions, it just hit me that this may not be a bug at all. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

09-22-2007, 11:48 AM	#96
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Are we supposed to re-download the patch?

09-22-2007, 11:28 PM	#100
michael1123 n00b Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan	I love the update, but can you please make it so that a defense never lines up in a goal line formation in a passing down outside of their redzone? I'm having the computer set my gameplans, and typically they do a great job, but multiple times each game the offense is in an obvious passing down (3rd and 20 while I'm up by 2 touchdowns) and my defense lines up in goal line formation and allows a 25+ yard pass. Its really rather ridiculous. Please fix this! Its the only major error I see in AI gameplanning week in and week out.

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