Why do the Phillies suck so bad - Page 2

JonInMiddleGA · 08-01-2004, 07:44 PM

Man, being 10 games back makes some people downright surly

Philliesfan980 · 08-01-2004, 08:08 PM

Please everyone. Lets keep this thread to the Phillies utter incompetence.

GrantDawg · 08-01-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

The Braves have the best pitching coach in baseball. (not that I think Cox can manage his way out of an upside down paper bag)

Fixed it for ya.

Easy Mac · 08-01-2004, 09:52 PM

technically the ERA is the best in baseball, so the pitching is working (I understand what you're saying, but still).

Ben E Lou · 08-15-2004, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

We have let the shitty Braves get up 4.5 games already.

Heck, that was nothin'.

NL EAST STANDINGS

	W	L	Pct.	GB	L10	Strk.
Atlanta	66	49	.574	_	z-8-2	W-1
Philadelphia	59	58	.504	8	z-4-6	L-3
Florida	57	58	.496	9	5-5	W-1
New York	56	59	.487	10	z-6-4	W-3
Montreal	49	66	.426	17	7-3	W-7

FBPro · 08-15-2004, 05:15 AM

Classic...

Suicane75 · 08-15-2004, 05:18 AM

How frickin pathetic this team is. Part of me wishes they would fire the entire coaching staff and bring back Fregosi. They really screwed the pooch on this ballpark, build your team around a bunch of young pitchers and then give them a bandbox to pitch in, jesus h christ do I hate Ed Wade. I wish Dykstra, Daulton, Kruk and Hollins would walk into that locker room and beat the living hell out of every single player on that team.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 06:55 AM

No love for the Phillies this season,
Bowa, YOU'RE FIRED!

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 06:59 AM

Injuries hurt this team, the lastest was Burrell OFTS with a wrist injury,
to much jacking off at the plate and in the clubhouse.

This team needs a new direction, manager-wise.

GrantDawg · 08-15-2004, 07:01 AM

I have a feeling if they fired Bowa today, it would be worth at least 5-8 extra wins before the end of the season, most likely with a winning streak of that length starting the day after he was gone!

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 07:10 AM

Weaks spots to improve on next season,

Hire a competent manager,
a cf who can hit,
2b
sp and bullpen, Roberto Hernandez MUST GO!, HE SUCKS!
and Oh yeah, A GM who will make competent player deals!
(Ledee for F. Rodriguez, WTF?!?, your best ph and spot starter for a reliever.)

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 07:12 AM

I seen enough of Bowa, get Gary Varsho,Vuckovich, somebody.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 07:13 AM

Bowa worn-out his welcome as Padre manager, and now the Phillies.
Granted he was good ball-player, but terrible manager.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 07:17 AM

My choice for new Phillies manager would be, 3b coach Vuckovich.

stevew · 08-15-2004, 08:14 AM

I cant believe they are 8 back already. I think it may be time to look into a new team. 25 years of futility enables one to change allegiences i suppose.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I cant believe they are 8 back already. I think it may be time to look into a new team. 25 years of futility enables one to change allegiences i suppose.

Never!
Phillies all the way, good and bad times.

The team just needs to start making smarter decisions, player-wise and management-wise.

stevew · 08-15-2004, 09:25 AM

Wade has done so many 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 prospect trades that right now something like 3 players project to be above replacement level major leaguers in our AA or AAA rosters. Wade may as well have traded 40 hr guy Howard for some help when the division was within reach. Its not like he will get any PT behind Thome.

Philliesfan980 · 08-15-2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Wade has done so many 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 prospect trades that right now something like 3 players project to be above replacement level major leaguers in our AA or AAA rosters. Wade may as well have traded 40 hr guy Howard for some help when the division was within reach. Its not like he will get any PT behind Thome.

If he keeps playing like the way he has been (Thome sucking) he will.

stevew · 08-15-2004, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

If he keeps playing like the way he has been (Thome sucking) he will.

Ideally trading Burrell and Thome, and replacing them with a free agent like nomar or beltran would be much better for the club. But nobody would trade for either right now, especially with how much thome and burrell are both owed.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 10:11 AM

Not being able to beat the Braves and Marlins also hurts, alot.
Losing to last place teams, Rockies for example.
Bullpen blowing leads.

stevew · 08-15-2004, 10:20 AM

Who owns the Phillies(besides the braves and Marlins). Is it some sort of "Group", cause i almost never see their owner listed by name.

Philliesfan980 · 08-15-2004, 10:24 AM

I'm a partial season ticket holder, but I haven't been to a game in a few weeks. This team just disgusts me in so many ways, I really don't have the energy to get into it. I'm still supporting the team... to LOSE! I honestly hope they lose each and every game for the rest of the season. Its the only way that any real change will be made here. If they make a small run in September and cut the lead down to 5 games, then mgt will say "well, if it wasn't for the injuries....". Thats what we don't need to happen. This lineup, collectively speaking, is a complete disaster. Very few contact guys, little to no speed, and too many k's. Most of these guys wouldn't be terrible if they were on other teams, but the way this lineup is contstructed , it just won't work.

I'd be willing to support a complete rebuild project (too bad they have no prospects), over the next few years. With some of the salaries on this team, not sure if that can happen.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 10:26 AM

Oh wait, we can beat the Dodgers, Padres, Expos, to bad we can't play them all year.

Crapshoot · 08-15-2004, 10:32 AM

the K's are not a problem- as much as every sportswriter likes to cite them. Millwood is a league average pitcher who Wade commiitted $11 million to. Milton is a league average pitcher who Wade committed $9 million to. Burell's deal was ridiculous in that bought out free agency at a ridiculous cost. An idiot GM combined with a manager with the intelligence and general manners of a 3 year old, and what exactly do you expect ?

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 10:36 AM

Expos can beat the Braves, Phillies can not.
Expos can beat the Marlins, Phillies can not.

Hmm, maybe Phillie ownership can get the Expos players in a massive trade.

Philliesfan980 · 08-15-2004, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aadik

the K's are not a problem- as much as every sportswriter likes to cite them. Millwood is a league average pitcher who Wade commiitted $11 million to. Milton is a league average pitcher who Wade committed $9 million to. Burell's deal was ridiculous in that bought out free agency at a ridiculous cost. An idiot GM combined with a manager with the intelligence and general manners of a 3 year old, and what exactly do you expect ?

Yep, agree 100% with you there, those two decisions weren't the best. Pitching is another topic alltogether.

But so say that that K's arent a problem is wrong. The only way the Phillies can score nowadays is by the HR ball, they can't string together any hits to get runs across.

tucker rocky · 08-15-2004, 10:51 AM

Phillies can be rebuilt, faster, stronger, better.
Kind of like the bionic man.

Because this season the Phillies were up and going, then crashed and burned.

stevew · 08-15-2004, 11:15 AM

The inning ending strikeouts are the problem. The team needs a few more patient hitters who can get on base. As far as i think, Rollins batting the leadoff is the biggest problem. He'd be okay in our lineup as the #8 hitter cause he has a pretty solid glove, but as the #1 hitter he barely walks and only gets on base 33% of the time. Utley is a promising power hitter, but he also does not like to take a walk. Byrd is a mess, Lieby is on the decline. Altogether the lineup is a clusterfuck.

Crapshoot · 08-15-2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Yep, agree 100% with you there, those two decisions weren't the best. Pitching is another topic alltogether.

But so say that that K's arent a problem is wrong. The only way the Phillies can score nowadays is by the HR ball, they can't string together any hits to get runs across.

This whole contact arguement doesnt make sense. A K is not worse than any other out for a hitter- the potential downside of not advancing any potentil runner is matched by the fact that you aren't likely to ground into a double play either by not making contact.

Philly's offense is Thome, Abreau, and Burell- whos out for the season. Bell is a league average hitter on his best day. Thanks to Larry Bowa's brilliance, Jimmy Rollins has regressed since an outstanding first year- his plate discipline has eroded, because dumbass Larry wants more players like him.

stevew · 08-15-2004, 11:24 AM

The k's indicate the lack of patience at the plate. Immature hitting.

Philliesfan980 · 08-15-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aadik

This whole contact arguement doesnt make sense. A K is not worse than any other out for a hitter- the potential downside of not advancing any potentil runner is matched by the fact that you aren't likely to ground into a double play either by not making contact.

Philly's offense is Thome, Abreau, and Burell- whos out for the season. Bell is a league average hitter on his best day. Thanks to Larry Bowa's brilliance, Jimmy Rollins has regressed since an outstanding first year- his plate discipline has eroded, because dumbass Larry wants more players like him.

I see your logic behind the "K's offset double play" logic well enough. I disagree with it on some levels, but thats another baseball strategy topic alltogether.

My baseball preference is not the homerun. Its a well played, well pitched, timely hitting baseball game. The phillies have esentially screwed themselves with the new stadium. As great as it looks, it might be worse than Coors Field.Now the Phillies are forced to load up on HR guys (who consequently have high strikeouts). Whats going to end up happening is them being like the Texas Rangers of a few years ago where it was all power and 0 pitching. Not a combination for a winning club.

JimboJ · 08-15-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Who owns the Phillies(besides the braves and Marlins). Is it some sort of "Group", cause i almost never see their owner listed by name.

Yes, it is a group of owners who prefer to remain relatively anonymous, and never speak to the media.

The guy who speaks for the ownership is team president Dave Montgomery, who just recently gave GM Ed Wade a vote of confidence. His rationale was that the team is better now than when Wade took over 7 years ago. Sure, they went from terrible to mediocre...whoopie!

On the other hand, he refused to give any vote of confidence to Bowa. So guess who's gone after the season (if he makes it that far)?

Crapshoot · 08-15-2004, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

The k's indicate the lack of patience at the plate. Immature hitting.

no, they dont- some of the hitters with the highest walk totals (ie Thome) have high K's - because they're willing to wait.

Crapshoot · 08-15-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I see your logic behind the "K's offset double play" logic well enough. I disagree with it on some levels, but thats another baseball strategy topic alltogether.

My baseball preference is not the homerun. Its a well played, well pitched, timely hitting baseball game. The phillies have esentially screwed themselves with the new stadium. As great as it looks, it might be worse than Coors Field.Now the Phillies are forced to load up on HR guys (who consequently have high strikeouts). Whats going to end up happening is them being like the Texas Rangers of a few years ago where it was all power and 0 pitching. Not a combination for a winning club.

I disagree- on a personal preference ,you're welcome to whatever style you like, but the Phillies problem is not the HR hitters- they rank 7th in baseball in HR's, and 7th in OBP - hardly a recipie for disaster, and an indication that they're still getting on. What they do have is a lower BA- but their OPS puts them at no 12. if anything, their problem has been the lack of power (overall slugging) given the fairly high OBP>

FBPro · 08-15-2004, 12:14 PM

I don't know, I kinda like the way the Phillies are playing this year.

stevew · 09-29-2006, 06:32 AM

Same shit, different year.

Go Yankees.

stevew · 10-30-2008, 11:43 PM

Oh god.

Did I say that Howard would never play in front of Thome 2 different times here.

Jeebus.

I suppose at the time Thome was coming off a 40 some homer season, and Howard was a 25 year old one tool AA'er.

Man, if only i had a delete button.

08-01-2004, 09:52 PM	#54
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	technically the ERA is the best in baseball, so the pitching is working (I understand what you're saying, but still). Last edited by Easy Mac : 08-01-2004 at 09:55 PM.

08-15-2004, 05:15 AM	#56
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	Classic... __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

08-15-2004, 06:55 AM	#58
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	No love for the Phillies this season, Bowa, YOU'RE FIRED! Last edited by tucker rocky : 08-15-2004 at 06:56 AM.

08-15-2004, 06:59 AM	#59
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Injuries hurt this team, the lastest was Burrell OFTS with a wrist injury, to much jacking off at the plate and in the clubhouse. This team needs a new direction, manager-wise. Last edited by tucker rocky : 08-15-2004 at 07:00 AM.

08-15-2004, 12:14 PM	#85
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	I don't know, I kinda like the way the Phillies are playing this year. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

08-01-2004, 08:08 PM	#52
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	Please everyone. Lets keep this thread to the Phillies utter incompetence.

08-15-2004, 05:18 AM	#57
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	How frickin pathetic this team is. Part of me wishes they would fire the entire coaching staff and bring back Fregosi. They really screwed the pooch on this ballpark, build your team around a bunch of young pitchers and then give them a bandbox to pitch in, jesus h christ do I hate Ed Wade. I wish Dykstra, Daulton, Kruk and Hollins would walk into that locker room and beat the living hell out of every single player on that team.

08-15-2004, 07:01 AM	#60
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	I have a feeling if they fired Bowa today, it would be worth at least 5-8 extra wins before the end of the season, most likely with a winning streak of that length starting the day after he was gone!

08-15-2004, 07:10 AM	#61
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Weaks spots to improve on next season, Hire a competent manager, a cf who can hit, 2b sp and bullpen, Roberto Hernandez MUST GO!, HE SUCKS! and Oh yeah, A GM who will make competent player deals! (Ledee for F. Rodriguez, WTF?!?, your best ph and spot starter for a reliever.)

08-15-2004, 07:12 AM	#62
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	I seen enough of Bowa, get Gary Varsho,Vuckovich, somebody.

08-15-2004, 07:13 AM	#63
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Bowa worn-out his welcome as Padre manager, and now the Phillies. Granted he was good ball-player, but terrible manager.

08-15-2004, 07:17 AM	#64
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	My choice for new Phillies manager would be, 3b coach Vuckovich.

08-15-2004, 08:14 AM	#65
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I cant believe they are 8 back already. I think it may be time to look into a new team. 25 years of futility enables one to change allegiences i suppose.

08-15-2004, 09:25 AM	#67
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Wade has done so many 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 prospect trades that right now something like 3 players project to be above replacement level major leaguers in our AA or AAA rosters. Wade may as well have traded 40 hr guy Howard for some help when the division was within reach. Its not like he will get any PT behind Thome.

08-15-2004, 10:11 AM	#70
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Not being able to beat the Braves and Marlins also hurts, alot. Losing to last place teams, Rockies for example. Bullpen blowing leads.

08-15-2004, 10:20 AM	#71
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Who owns the Phillies(besides the braves and Marlins). Is it some sort of "Group", cause i almost never see their owner listed by name.

08-15-2004, 10:24 AM	#72
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	I'm a partial season ticket holder, but I haven't been to a game in a few weeks. This team just disgusts me in so many ways, I really don't have the energy to get into it. I'm still supporting the team... to LOSE! I honestly hope they lose each and every game for the rest of the season. Its the only way that any real change will be made here. If they make a small run in September and cut the lead down to 5 games, then mgt will say "well, if it wasn't for the injuries....". Thats what we don't need to happen. This lineup, collectively speaking, is a complete disaster. Very few contact guys, little to no speed, and too many k's. Most of these guys wouldn't be terrible if they were on other teams, but the way this lineup is contstructed , it just won't work. I'd be willing to support a complete rebuild project (too bad they have no prospects), over the next few years. With some of the salaries on this team, not sure if that can happen.

08-15-2004, 10:26 AM	#73
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Oh wait, we can beat the Dodgers, Padres, Expos, to bad we can't play them all year.

08-15-2004, 10:32 AM	#74
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	the K's are not a problem- as much as every sportswriter likes to cite them. Millwood is a league average pitcher who Wade commiitted $11 million to. Milton is a league average pitcher who Wade committed $9 million to. Burell's deal was ridiculous in that bought out free agency at a ridiculous cost. An idiot GM combined with a manager with the intelligence and general manners of a 3 year old, and what exactly do you expect ?

08-15-2004, 10:36 AM	#75
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Expos can beat the Braves, Phillies can not. Expos can beat the Marlins, Phillies can not. Hmm, maybe Phillie ownership can get the Expos players in a massive trade.

08-15-2004, 10:51 AM	#77
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Phillies can be rebuilt, faster, stronger, better. Kind of like the bionic man. Because this season the Phillies were up and going, then crashed and burned.

08-15-2004, 11:15 AM	#78
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	The inning ending strikeouts are the problem. The team needs a few more patient hitters who can get on base. As far as i think, Rollins batting the leadoff is the biggest problem. He'd be okay in our lineup as the #8 hitter cause he has a pretty solid glove, but as the #1 hitter he barely walks and only gets on base 33% of the time. Utley is a promising power hitter, but he also does not like to take a walk. Byrd is a mess, Lieby is on the decline. Altogether the lineup is a clusterfuck.

08-15-2004, 11:24 AM	#80
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	The k's indicate the lack of patience at the plate. Immature hitting.

09-29-2006, 06:32 AM	#86
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Same shit, different year. Go Yankees.

10-30-2008, 11:43 PM	#87
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Oh god. Did I say that Howard would never play in front of Thome 2 different times here. Jeebus. I suppose at the time Thome was coming off a 40 some homer season, and Howard was a 25 year old one tool AA'er. Man, if only i had a delete button.

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