The 2010 MLB Season Thread

[panerd]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think you're doing a disservice to Evan Meek. Look at his numbers. He's performed brilliantly in his role this year. Unless we're going to just ban Middle Relievers from the All Star Game, then there's no reason Meek shouldn't be there even if there wasn't a one player per team rule.

Yeah he has almost as many strikeouts as Pelfrey in half the innings. What's laughable is that John Russell has the ancient Octavio Dotel closing over Meek.

[Big Fo]

Five Braves made the team, not bad (Heyward, Prado, Infante, McCann, and Hudson). Billy Wagner has been good this season (lowest WHIP and ERA among NL closers), he's part of the vote-in list so there's a (slim) chance we could get six guys on the team. He deserves it.

Infante was a bit of a surprise but I guess with Tulowitzki injured there weren't many deserving shortstops.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think you're doing a disservice to Evan Meek. Look at his numbers. He's performed brilliantly in his role this year. Unless we're going to just ban Middle Relievers from the All Star Game, then there's no reason Meek shouldn't be there even if there wasn't a one player per team rule.

If he was that good he would be a starter or a closer.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well clearly your rule #2 didn't play out.

And I do think Pelfrey got robbed. I have watched every start this year, no way he isn't an all star. It is unfathomable to me how a guy who has 10 wins at the break doesn't make the team.

Have you ever seen Latos pitch? This kid has impressed me the last month as much as the super hype machine Strasburg. He is dominant, virtually unhittable. And rule #2 did play out. Meek was the Pirates sole respresentative.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If he was that good he would be a starter or a closer.

The Pirates have never been known for logical baseball decisions. Don't think Dotel would close over Meek for any of the other 31 teams. (maybe Arizona)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah he has almost as many strikeouts as Pelfrey in half the innings.

Well by this logic then Strassburg should have made the team.

[rowech]

Reds have three all-stars on the team but their best player doesn't make it? Comical. Absolutely comical.

[Atocep]

I think any outrage should be saved. Halladay, Hudson, and likely more are going to need to be replaced as they pitch 3 days before the game. Then factor in the guys that would rather spend a weekend resting their strained hamstring or whatever excuse they use and half the team will be different than what is announced.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Have you ever seen Latos pitch? This kid has impressed me the last month as much as the super hype machine Strasburg. He is dominant, virtually unhittable. And rule #2 did play out. Meek was the Pirates sole respresentative.

huh.

Maybe I am mistaken but I thought by your "rule" that players from large market teams are shown favoritism, obviously not true since Pelfrey got screwed.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well by this logic then Strassburg should have made the team.

I don't know enough about you but your love of Pelfrey appears to be very homeristic. Listen he is a great pitcher this season but the fact is that Latos is better is every single aspect except for wins (which is probably the one stat pitchers have the least control over). Look over this kid's game log over the past two months. Absolutely incredible run of games. So your arguement really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If he was that good he would be a starter or a closer.

Yeah, see, I think we should base the All-Star selections on how a player has actually performed instead of making assumptions about the guy based on the role his manager has given him.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Have you ever seen Latos pitch? .

I have and I think there is just as much a beef. Look, I am a Mets homer, not even trying to deny that and I'm not saying Pelfrey is the only guy to get screwed here.

The conspiracy theorist in me also says there is something to the fact that Manuel was the one picking the roster and conveniently a 10 win Met gets left off.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by panerd

Have you ever seen Latos pitch? This kid has impressed me the last month as much as the super hype machine Strasburg. He is dominant, virtually unhittable. And rule #2 did play out. Meek was the Pirates sole respresentative.

Latos has been amazing when he's on, which has been most of his starts. As a Padres fan, it might actually be better that he isn't on the All Star team, as they are going to limit his innings as it is. Bell should be on the team and Adams/Gregerson would be good adds as well, since as a 7-8-9 unit, I'm not sure if there's been any better in baseball this year. Of course, closers (rightly) get the edge for these things. You'd think, though, that the NL would consider something to change things up since they've been dominated for awhile now.

Of course, a team without any Padres pitchers might be the smart move - since a Padre has gotten the loss in 3/4 ASG.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Yeah, see, I think we should base the All-Star selections on how a player has actually performed instead of making assumptions about the guy based on the role his manager has given him.

He had done it over 46 innings of middle relief in no pressure situations for the Pirates. I think a guy like Pelfrey or Latos who are winning games and putting up numbers for teams in a division race are more deserving.

[Lathum]

I would love for Elias to do a study and see how many pitchers with 10 wins and an ERA under 3 were left off the all star team.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have and I think there is just as much a beef. Look, I am a Mets homer, not even trying to deny that and I'm not saying Pelfrey is the only guy to get screwed here.

The conspiracy theorist in me also says there is something to the fact that Manuel was the one picking the roster and conveniently a 10 win Met gets left off.

Wait, I thought the problem was the Pirates.

[larrymcg421]

Why do you keep focusing on Wins? Pelfrey is 12th in ERA+, 24th in WHIP, 42nd in K/9, 22nd in BB/9.

I'm actually glad that we're not repeating last year's Tim Wakefield idiocy.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Wait, I thought the problem was the Pirates.

I think the bigger problem is that every team needs a representative. Like Logan mentioned, if the game was a straight exhibition ok then, but when you are playing to have game 7 be in your leagues stadium you play to win. In order to do that the best players should be out there. Sorry fans of the Pirates, KC, etc..., do more to support your team and you'll get better players to represent you.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Why do you keep focusing on Wins? Pelfrey is 12th in ERA+, 24th in WHIP, 42nd in K/9, 22nd in BB/9.

Seriously. He also ranks 18th in WAR among NL pitchers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Why do you keep focusing on Wins? Pelfrey is 12th in ERA+, 24th in WHIP, 42nd in K/9, 22nd in BB/9.

That is counting all pitchers, I would be curios in his numbers for starters.

If Pelfrey was getting monster run support than the wins would mean less, but he isn't even in the top 20. He has also been the Mets stopper this year, coming up huge in spots when they needed him.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That is counting all pitchers, I would be curios in his numbers for starters.

Nope, that is definitely among starters. You can check for yourself here:

2010 National League Standard Pitching - Baseball-Reference.com

[Atocep]

Pelfrey is 16th in the NL in support neutral wins and 9th in VORP. He's a borderline all star. If Manuel wanted to be a dick he'd pick Pelfrey and start him in the all star game. I'd rather have a rested rotation than have things screwed up for the games that mean something.

Also, Pelfrey is the Mets likely starter on the 11th so picking him would be pointless anyway.

Latos is an excellent young pitcher but lets keep in mind he pitches in the pitcher's equivalent of pre-humidor Coors.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Pelfrey is 16th in the NL in support neutral wins and 9th in VORP. He's a borderline all star. If Manuel wanted to be a dick he'd pick Pelfrey and start him in the all star game. I'd rather have a rested rotation than have things screwed up for the games that mean something.

Also, Pelfrey is the Mets likely starter on the 11th so picking him would be pointless anyway.

Latos is an excellent young pitcher but lets keep in mind he pitches in the pitcher's equivalent of pre-humidor Coors.

...... ERA W L SV G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Home 2.23 4 2 0 7 7 0 44.1 34 11 11 3 11 36 .210
Away 2.93 5 2 0 9 9 1 55.1 36 18 18 6 15 55 .180

A little better at home but how about his .180 ba against on the road?

EDIT: Yes, I have Lato's player card open for quick debate.

I don't have the package but any chance I get I tune in for Latos, Jimenez, Lincecum, Cain, Josh Johnson, and obviously my Cardinals. There is some special pitching going on this season.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Nope, that is definitely among starters. You can check for yourself here:

2010 National League Standard Pitching - Baseball-Reference.com

hmm, I would have sworn I checked last night and he was in the top 10.

Bah, throw out all the fancy stats you want, I think he got screwed.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I love how arguably the best hitter in the NL this season didn't make the cut.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

...... ERA W L SV G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Home 2.23 4 2 0 7 7 0 44.1 34 11 11 3 11 36 .210
Away 2.93 5 2 0 9 9 1 55.1 36 18 18 6 15 55 .180

A little better at home but how about his .180 ba against on the road?

EDIT: Yes, I have Lato's player card open for quick debate.

How about that .243 BABIP and 3.59 xFIP?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

I love how arguably the best hitter in the NL this season didn't make the cut.

Votto?

He certainly has a beef

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

How about that .243 BABIP and 3.59 xFIP?

I don't know what either of those stats mean. (I looked them up but still don't know what is good and what is bad) Are those good numbers or bad? They appear to be good. There are some players that just seem special when you watch them pitch and Latos has been one this season.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by panerd

I don't know what either of those stats mean. (I looked them up but still don't know what is good and what is bad) Are those good numbers or bad? They appear to be good. There are some players that just seem special when you watch them pitch and Latos has been one this season.

A low BABIP suggests the pitcher has been pretty lucky and can often predict that his overall numbers will decrease over the remainder of the season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JS19

Curious to hear your reasoning behind this. As Lathum said, having some MR from a suck ass team over a guy, and granted I'm a Mets fan, but a guy who is at least in somewhat of a discussion halfway through the season for the Cy Young makes the game more enticing to watch?

Pretty simple, I've been watching for just shy of 40 years that I can recall (although much less closely in the past few years) and I spent a number of those seasons following a team that had only one representative. And I've spent all of those years being interested in who each teams reps were. {shrug}

Truth is, if I want to see Pelphrey (or any guy in the discussion halfway through the season for Cy Young), there's ample opportunity to do that.
An MR from a suck ass team, less so. So yeah, while the gap might be somewhat marginal, I'd find that MR more interesting to watch against top shelf players than the 8th or 9th best SP in the league.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

A low BABIP suggests the pitcher has been pretty lucky and can often predict that his overall numbers will decrease over the remainder of the season.

He also leads the league in tattoo's per square inch. (or at least the national league, Hamilton may have him beat overall) He could come back to Earth, he is only 22, but he has been light's out so far this season. Take out a couple of games in April and him and Josh Johnson own this league.

[Atocep]

xFIP is his fielding independent ERA with home runs per flyball normalized. 3.59 is a good number, but the difference between it and his real ERA show how much he's benefiting from his home park.

He's an excellent young pitcher, as I said. One I felt was incredibly underrated headed into this season. So much so I took him late in my fantasy draft.
He's not Vinny Castillo in Coors, he's more like a Larry Walker.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well clearly your rule #2 didn't play out.

And I do think Pelfrey got robbed. I have watched every start this year, no way he isn't an all star. It is unfathomable to me how a guy who has 10 wins at the break doesn't make the team.

This is the stupidest argument in the book - have you watched every game by every other pitcher? No? Than this "I've seen it" is typical big market fan bluster. Matt Latos / Matt Cain / Jaime Garcia / Clayton Richard have all lower ERA's than Pelfrey and didn't make it.

Look, the all star selections are a joke every year - why the hell is Jose Reyes on the team, for example? Your one guy getting screwed isn't even the best example.

[larrymcg421]

A good example is Tommy Hanson, who has been seen as really struggling this year.

Last year: 11-4, 2.89 ERA
This year: 8-5, 4.19 ERA

Hanson is actually doing better in both of the stats he has most control over - K/9, BB/9. He's actually 4th in the league in K/9. His HR/9 is exactly the same as last year. So why is he much worse? His BABIP rose from .279 to .346.

[Lathum]

Reyes is on the team because Tulowitski is hurt and Reyes was right behind him in votes.

I realize wins isn't a great barometer, especially to all the baseball stat geeks here, but I would be very interested to see how many pitchers with 10+ wins and an ERA under 3 at the break were left off the team, I bet it isn't to many.

[rowech]

And Votto gets thrown out after getting called strikeout on his first AB.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Reyes is on the team because Tulowitski is hurt and Reyes was right behind him in votes.

In player votes that is (at least according to the story on mlb.com, that's how they're replacing the starters).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

And Votto gets thrown out after getting called strikeout on his first AB.

Starting the ol' vacation a little early I presume.

[Scoobz0202]

I still can't believe Votto got snubbed. Leads NL 1b in BA, SLG, OPS, 2nd by .001 in OBP, 2nd in HR, and 3rd in RBI.

ahahahahahaha

[Scoobz0202]

Zimmerman didn't make it either?

What the fuck is wrong with people.

[stevew]

I think Hanrahan is better than Meek....he had one shitty inning I think. And Dotel is accepable. Late inning relief is not our problem. Meek makes it to the all star game on the ERA. I think he's both good and lucky though.

Andrew McCutchen could have been our All Star as easily as Meek.

[Butter]

Absolutely ridiculous that Manuel would take Ryan Howard instead of Votto.

Reds taking the anger out on the Cubs today. Surprising that Rhodes got in, although other than his 3 run outing vs. the Phils last week, he has an ERA of about 0.25.

[Chief Rum]

It's ridiculous that Weaver--again!--got screwed by the All Star rosters, and especially in the game that's actually in Anaheim.

And we can thank either ESPN or Joe "Homer" Girardi for picking Hughes and Sabathia, neither of whom deserve to be in over Weaver, who is currently leading the majors in Ks. Players can't watch all the games, so their votes are based on numbers and hype, and I doubt many baseball players are sabremetric fans--they look at wins and they watch Sportscenter, with ESPN constantly banging it in how great the Yankees are. And if it wasn't the players, it was Girardi.

Carmona doesn't deserve either, but I presume he is Cleveland's sole rep. I don't know if they have a better rep elsewhere. I didn't look at the relievers, although it always annoys me a little when relievers get in over starters; fair or not, it just seems like the starters do more.

We can also thank the Angels' pen, which has managed to blow a handful of Weaver wins this year.

Now, Weaver was never going to pitch in the game anyway--he's scheduled to go on the Sunday before the game. But he should have been named to the roster, and if Homer wanted to then remove him and replace him with Sabathia or Hughes, power to him.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Liriano also should be there. Leading all MLB starters in WAR.

Ryan Howard over Votto is hilarious, but not surprising. The Omar Infante selection, on the other hand, might be the most obscene managerial selection in All Star history. On top of that, it makes no GD sense. I can't for the life of me figure out what Charlie Manuel was thinking.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Liriano also should be there. Leading all MLB starters in WAR.

Ryan Howard over Votto is hilarious, but not surprising. The Omar Infante selection, on the other hand, might be the most obscene managerial selection in All Star history. On top of that, it makes no GD sense. I can't for the life of me figure out what Charlie Manuel was thinking.

Liriano's having a good season, but his .500 record and 14th in ERA+ among starters suggests he was a fringe candidate.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, Pettite has the right to bitch, too. If you're going to have two Yankees starters there, Pettite should have been there, easily, over either Hughes or Sabathia.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Liriano's having a good season, but his .500 record and 14th in ERA+ among starters suggests he was a fringe candidate.

Liriano leads the AL in xFIP at 2.88 (Weaver is 2nd with at 3.26), is 3rd in K/9, and 5th in K/BB. Those are pretty worthy numbers in my eyes.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Liriano leads the AL in xFIP at 2.88 (Weaver is 2nd with at 3.26), is 3rd in K/9, and 5th in K/BB. Those are pretty worthy numbers in my eyes.

They are in mine as well, but ERA+ is a big thing, IMO, and "6-6" is a big thing for the old school people.

[k0ruptr]

I would like to see Konerko get in on the vote, but in all honesty I think Alex Rios should be in over him. Any stat heads that can show me random batting stats that says one is better then the other?

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

BTW, Pettite has the right to bitch, too. If you're going to have two Yankees starters there, Pettite should have been there, easily, over either Hughes or Sabathia.

Hughes was voted in by the players. Girardi did choose Sabathia but CC is scheduled to start the Sunday before the break so he will probably be replaced by Pettitte.