NFL Week 5 Discussion Thread: Randy Moss Traded to the Vikings - Page 9

cmp · 10-11-2010, 11:25 PM

I still wouldn't have ran that in.

panerd · 10-11-2010, 11:25 PM

PING: Gambling Thread. Could this have ended any worse?

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:25 PM

The defense bails Sanchez out. Every Jets player outside of Sanchez deserves the W. Sanchez, being in NY, will get far more credit than he deserves for this.

kingfc22 · 10-11-2010, 11:25 PM

Seen that one before.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:26 PM

By the way, if they had kicked that extra point, they are STILL in the game. You go for two when you HAVE to go for two. Not before. The Vikings went for two far too early. That was a mistake.

Abe Sargent · 10-11-2010, 11:27 PM

I love watching a pikc6 walk off against Farve everyday

SirFozzie · 10-11-2010, 11:28 PM

The Schadenfarve is delicious.

Kodos · 10-11-2010, 11:35 PM

I've found myself rooting against whoever had the ball all game long.

BishopMVP · 10-11-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

By the way, if they had kicked that extra point, they are STILL in the game. You go for two when you HAVE to go for two. Not before. The Vikings went for two far too early. That was a mistake.

Your entire logic is based on the outcome of the 2-pt conversion being different if they waited. There is no reason why it would be.

stevew · 10-11-2010, 11:48 PM

Yeah, the Vikes had many different chances to win, and the fact that they missed on a 2 pointer is not even in the calculation as to why they might have lost.

Troy, sometimes you belabor points worse than Mike Florio(why i stopped reading PFT)

jbergey22 · 10-12-2010, 01:10 AM

Jets are a very good team. The Vikings offense is very inconsistent to say the least. They made a couple of nice plays in the 2nd half but the Vikings still have a long way to go as they have no consistency. Favre is all but done which will make many of you very happy.

The positives were Harvin finally looked like an NFL WR and Moss is certainly going to open up the offense if Favre can get it to him. The negatives were the offensive line is brutal, Favre looked his age 90 percent of the game, and Vikings stellar run defense is no longer there.

M GO BLUE!!! · 10-12-2010, 01:27 AM

I'm still wondering how on that 1st play the QB is an ineligible receiver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/forwardpass

Forward Pass

1. A forward pass may be touched or caught by any eligible receiver. All members of the defensive team are eligible. Eligible receivers on the offensive team are players on either end of line (other than center, guard, or tackle) or players at least one yard behind the line at the snap. A T-formation quarterback is not eligible to receive a forward pass during a play from scrimmage.

Exception: T-formation quarterback becomes eligible if pass is previously touched by an eligible receiver.

Wasn't the ball "touched" by two eligible receivers, including the one that threw it to him?

In fact, when examining this rule I wonder how the QB in a T formation could be an ineligible receiver, besides a piss-poor play where somehow the QB fumbles the ball & an OL picks it up & throws a forward pass to him.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 07:06 AM

The QB can't be under center is what I heard. So if he took a shotgun snap, then he'd be eligible? That's what I understood, but I don't know if that's right.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

By the way, if they had kicked that extra point, they are STILL in the game. You go for two when you HAVE to go for two. Not before. The Vikings went for two far too early. That was a mistake.

I agree with Troy. You put off going for 2 until you absolutely need it. So if you are down by 15, you kick the XP on the first TD and keep the score at 8 and go for 2 if/when you get the 2nd TD. If you are down by 16, then you go for 2 both times, because you need both to keep it a 1 score game. If you go for 2 too early and don't get it, you've turned a 1 score game into a 2 score game and that kills your chances of winning. You might not get the last 2-point conversion to tie the game, but you've extended the game to that point, whereas before, if you don't get it, you've pretty much ended the game several minutes before you had to and essentially thrown away your chance to tie/win the game.

If it works, great, but that's not the point - the point is to keep your team's chances to tie alive as long as possible, and going for 2 only when you absolutely have to to keep it a 1 score game is the correct call.

spleen1015 · 10-12-2010, 10:14 AM

Someone needs to look this up.

Has anyone thrown more INTs to end and lose a game than Farve has? Maybe I am keying on it too much, but it seems like his teams lose a lot because he throws a pick in critical end game situations. I know he has ended the last 3 seasons like that.

Front Office Midget · 10-12-2010, 10:15 AM

I am a little surprised that people are arguing that going for the XP is the correct decision.

You're down by 2 in the 4th quarter, you go for 2. Seems pretty straight-forward to me. If you have to go for 2 at some point no matter what, you might as well get it done early to see if you succeed.

I'm with Bishop on this. Anything else seems completely contrary to logic.

jbergey22 · 10-12-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

I am a little surprised that people are arguing that going for the XP is the correct decision.

You're down by 2 in the 4th quarter, you go for 2. Seems pretty straight-forward to me. If you have to go for 2 at some point no matter what, you might as well get it done early to see if you succeed.

I'm with Bishop on this. Anything else seems completely contrary to logic.

I agree. Some people I believe are confused. If you are down 15 or 22 you wait and go for the two until you need it. When you are down 2 in the 4th quarter with a chance to tie the game it is really a no brainer. You dont play the 4th quarter like you are expecting the other team to score another TD.

jbergey22 · 10-12-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Someone needs to look this up.

Has anyone thrown more INTs to end and lose a game than Farve has? Maybe I am keying on it too much, but it seems like his teams lose a lot because he throws a pick in critical end game situations. I know he has ended the last 3 seasons like that.

He has the all time record for int's. He has likely pulled out more games in the 4th quarter and lost more games in the 4th quarter than any other QB just based on longevity.

He does seem to be failing much more than succeeding lately however.

molson · 10-12-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree. Some people I believe are confused. If you are down 15 or 22 you wait and go for the two until you need it. When you are down 2 in the 4th quarter with a chance to tie the game it is really a no brainer. You dont play the 4th quarter like you are expecting the other team to score another TD.

Ya, imagine if you kick an extra point in the 4th quarter to go down 1 and then that's the end of the scoring in the game? Maybe you generally don't want to go for 2 "too early", but you also don't want to put off a chance to tie the game too late.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree. Some people I believe are confused. If you are down 15 or 22 you wait and go for the two until you need it. When you are down 2 in the 4th quarter with a chance to tie the game it is really a no brainer. You dont play the 4th quarter like you are expecting the other team to score another TD.

Well, that I (generally) agree with. I got bored with that game last night and turned it off before the first half ended, so I didn't see the specific situation that played out last night.

For me, the decision on whether to go for 2 down by 2 in the 4th quarter would depend on how mmuch time is left and general feel of the game. If I thought my offense wasn't moving the ball well and we'd be lucky to score again, or my defense wasn't stopping them, then I'd be more inclined to go for 2. If there was 12 minutes left and the teams were trading TDs every 6 minutes, then I'd consider taking the XP.

BishopMVP · 10-12-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If it works, great, but that's not the point - the point is to keep your team's chances to tie alive as long as possible, and going for 2 only when you absolutely have to to keep it a 1 score game is the correct call.

The point is that you delay going for 2 until late in case other scoring permutations occur whereby an extra point (or multiple XP's) would have tied or won the game for you. For theoretical purposes that 2-point conversion had already been missed (or rather, the probability of making it hadn't changed) whether you attempted it at 15-13, at 22-20 or 29-21. You absolutely go for 2 down 2 in the 4th because there is a much lower probability of both teams adding another touchdown (and thus having a later chance to go for 2) than of the Jets scoring 2-6 points.

BishopMVP · 10-12-2010, 10:49 AM

I also say you definitely go for 2 when scoring a TD down 22 in the 4th, because if you miss you can try and make 2-pt conversions on both the ensuing TD's and still tie the game.

I would even take it further and say (assuming a 50/50 chance of making a 2-pt conversion) going for 2 when you score a TD down 14 increases your chances of winning, but I'm not arguing some radical notion like that here. A low scoring game in bad weather? Go for the 2 to tie early.

jbergey22 · 10-12-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I also say you definitely go for 2 when scoring a TD down 22 in the 4th, because if you miss you can try and make 2-pt conversions on both the ensuing TD's and still tie the game.

I would even take it further and say (assuming a 50/50 chance of making a 2-pt conversion) going for 2 when you score a TD down 14 increases your chances of winning, but I'm not arguing some radical notion like that here. A low scoring game in bad weather? Go for the 2 to tie early.

NFL coaches are such pussies they'd never go with this strategy but I would agree with this in some situations. NFL coaches are so timid most of the time that they'd rather get the game to OT and let the games fate depend on a coinflip rather than going out and winning it on their own.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 11:08 AM

Well sure, because the coach isn't accountable for the coin flip. But you can pin the 2-point decision right on him.

stevew · 10-12-2010, 11:37 AM

We probably should mention that #26 should have ran out of bounds instead of returning the pick 6. Then again, the Jets were throwing before the 2 minute warning

Groundhog · 10-12-2010, 05:27 PM

Logan · 10-13-2010, 04:27 PM

Simmons column explaining how he accidentally broke the Moss trade on twitter.

Bill Simmons: Chaos and confusion tripped up the Randy Moss scoop for ESPN - ESPN

DaddyTorgo · 10-13-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Simmons column explaining how he accidentally broke the Moss trade on twitter.

Bill Simmons: Chaos and confusion tripped up the Randy Moss scoop for ESPN - ESPN

That'd be interesting if I could read Simmons again. Unfortunately I'm embargoing him since he's back to rooting for Michael Vick even though he calls himself a dog lover.

MikeVic · 10-13-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

That'd be interesting if I could read Simmons again. Unfortunately I'm embargoing him since he's back to rooting for Michael Vick even though he calls himself a dog lover.

You can't love dogs and root for Vick? If you're of the believer that people can change and have paid their debt to society, then it's possible.

k0ruptr · 10-13-2010, 05:22 PM

word. I love all animals, and I can root for him.

DaddyTorgo · 10-13-2010, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

You can't love dogs and root for Vick? If you're of the believer that people can change and have paid their debt to society, then it's possible.

Nope. Well at least I can't. And I don't have to read ball-washing of Vick by people who can.

Who says people can change?

And more than that - who's to decide when he's paid his debt. He may have paid his debt to society in the eyes of the court, but that doesn't mean he's paid his debt in my eyes.

I hope he dies. Painfully.

RedKingGold · 10-13-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

You can't love dogs and root for Vick? If you're of the believer that people can change and have paid their debt to society, then it's possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

And more than that - who's to decide when he's paid his debt. He may have paid his debt to society in the eyes of the court, but that doesn't mean he's paid his debt in my eyes.

I hope he dies. Painfully.

FYI, DaddyTorgo hates you.

Lathum · 10-13-2010, 06:51 PM

I'm with DT.

I am all for him paying his debt to society through the courts and having a right to earn a living. That being said I will never root for him and I hope he is a failure and terrible things happen to him.

Lets not act like he had some epiphany and turned himself in. Had he not gotten caught he would still be participating in that business. HE changed because he got caught and changing was the only way to resurrect his career. In my eyes he is still a piece of human waste and always will be.

Greyroofoo · 10-13-2010, 07:22 PM

I'll probably never root for Vick.

Though that's because he's an Eagle.

Shkspr · 10-13-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

That'd be interesting if I could read Simmons again. Unfortunately I'm embargoing him since he's back to rooting for Michael Vick even though he calls himself a dog lover.

I think you misunderstood the man. He meant he's a dog lover when they're playing at home and the line is three or more, that's all.

stevew · 10-13-2010, 10:14 PM

RE- the 2 pointer discussion

Does anyone have a breakdown on 2pt conversions made with no Time Out vs offensive TO vs defensive TO? I think once Childress called the TO he should have probably kicked it.

larrymcg421 · 10-13-2010, 11:12 PM

I don't understand the argument about being down 15 and kicking the EP so you make sure it's one score. Okay, so now you're down 8 and hey look, it's only one score! But that's not true. It's just an illusion. It's only one score if something else happens. Something else that you could have attempted already.

Assume the 2 point conversion will be missed either way. Do you want to find that out with 7 minutes left or with 1 minute left?

bhlloy · 10-13-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Assume the 2 point conversion will be missed either way. Do you want to find that out with 7 minutes left or with 1 minute left?

This is exactly how I look at it... I don't really understand the argument the other way. Miss the 2 point at the end, you've got a crappy shot at the onside kick (and still have to drive and hit a FG) or the game is over. At least if you miss it with 5+ minutes left, you can call the rest of the game based on the fact it's a 2 score game.

DaddyTorgo · 10-14-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I think you misunderstood the man. He meant he's a dog lover when they're playing at home and the line is three or more, that's all.

He just strikes me as a total hypocrite (not like that's a big surprise).

His dog died and he basically wrote a whole column about it and about how much he loved his dog and etc., and now he's forgiving Michael Vick?

Like he said in his column where he wrote that all - his dog was prolly rolling over in its grave when he did that.

Greyroofoo · 10-14-2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

He just strikes me as a total hypocrite (not like that's a big surprise).

His dog died and he basically wrote a whole column about it and about how much he loved his dog and etc., and now he's forgiving Michael Vick?

Like he said in his column where he wrote that all - his dog was prolly rolling over in its grave when he did that.

Being a dog-lover and being a forgiving person are not mutually exclusive events.

Greyroofoo · 10-14-2010, 01:23 AM

dola,

It could also be because he had trouble getting his dog to learn to 'roll over' while living. So having his dog roll over in his grave suffices.

I should probably get to bed.

Atocep · 10-14-2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

He just strikes me as a total hypocrite (not like that's a big surprise).

His dog died and he basically wrote a whole column about it and about how much he loved his dog and etc., and now he's forgiving Michael Vick?

Like he said in his column where he wrote that all - his dog was prolly rolling over in its grave when he did that.

I consider myself a dog lover and I'm rooting for Vick too. With the amount of hate thrown his way and the disgusting things I've seen posted or written about him in various places I can't help but pull for the guy to succeed. Not just on the football field, but more importantly off of it.

Vick becoming a good citizen and being able to show that by drawing the attention that's associated with being successful on the football field will do far more good than him tearing his ACL or any of the various things I've seen people wish upon him.

RainMaker · 10-14-2010, 03:04 AM

I think there is a seperation between what happens on the field and off. We aren't cheering for the players own happiness, we are cheering for the team or our own personal entertainment. Football is a game that entertains us and because Vick is a sociopath off the field doesn't mean what he does on the field can't entertain us.

Look at Hollywood. Many people find Tom Cruise to be insane. Many women find what he said about Brooke Shields to be deplorable. But that doesn't make his movies less entertaining. It doesn't mean when I go to the theater that I want that movie to suck.

I just want to be entertained and Vick does that. I wouldn't piss on the guy if he was on fire, but I'll watch the Eagles and be in aww of what he can do. I'll root for him if my fantasy team or a bet I have needs it. Or if he can make a game more fun to watch.

10-11-2010, 11:25 PM	#404
kingfc22 Head Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Morgan Hill, CA	Seen that one before. __________________ Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal Last edited by kingfc22 : 10-11-2010 at 11:27 PM.

10-11-2010, 11:27 PM	#406
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I love watching a pikc6 walk off against Farve everyday __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

10-11-2010, 11:28 PM	#407
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	The Schadenfarve is delicious. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

10-11-2010, 11:35 PM	#408
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I've found myself rooting against whoever had the ball all game long. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

10-12-2010, 07:06 AM	#413
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	The QB can't be under center is what I heard. So if he took a shotgun snap, then he'd be eligible? That's what I understood, but I don't know if that's right. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

10-11-2010, 11:25 PM	#401
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	I still wouldn't have ran that in.

10-11-2010, 11:25 PM	#402
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	PING: Gambling Thread. Could this have ended any worse?

10-11-2010, 11:25 PM	#403
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	The defense bails Sanchez out. Every Jets player outside of Sanchez deserves the W. Sanchez, being in NY, will get far more credit than he deserves for this.

10-11-2010, 11:26 PM	#405
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	By the way, if they had kicked that extra point, they are STILL in the game. You go for two when you HAVE to go for two. Not before. The Vikings went for two far too early. That was a mistake.

10-11-2010, 11:48 PM	#410
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Yeah, the Vikes had many different chances to win, and the fact that they missed on a 2 pointer is not even in the calculation as to why they might have lost. Troy, sometimes you belabor points worse than Mike Florio(why i stopped reading PFT)

10-12-2010, 01:10 AM	#411
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Jets are a very good team. The Vikings offense is very inconsistent to say the least. They made a couple of nice plays in the 2nd half but the Vikings still have a long way to go as they have no consistency. Favre is all but done which will make many of you very happy. The positives were Harvin finally looked like an NFL WR and Moss is certainly going to open up the offense if Favre can get it to him. The negatives were the offensive line is brutal, Favre looked his age 90 percent of the game, and Vikings stellar run defense is no longer there.

10-12-2010, 10:14 AM	#415
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Someone needs to look this up. Has anyone thrown more INTs to end and lose a game than Farve has? Maybe I am keying on it too much, but it seems like his teams lose a lot because he throws a pick in critical end game situations. I know he has ended the last 3 seasons like that. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

10-12-2010, 10:15 AM	#416
Front Office Midget High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin	I am a little surprised that people are arguing that going for the XP is the correct decision. You're down by 2 in the 4th quarter, you go for 2. Seems pretty straight-forward to me. If you have to go for 2 at some point no matter what, you might as well get it done early to see if you succeed. I'm with Bishop on this. Anything else seems completely contrary to logic.

10-12-2010, 10:49 AM	#422
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	I also say you definitely go for 2 when scoring a TD down 22 in the 4th, because if you miss you can try and make 2-pt conversions on both the ensuing TD's and still tie the game. I would even take it further and say (assuming a 50/50 chance of making a 2-pt conversion) going for 2 when you score a TD down 14 increases your chances of winning, but I'm not arguing some radical notion like that here. A low scoring game in bad weather? Go for the 2 to tie early. Last edited by BishopMVP : 10-12-2010 at 10:49 AM.

10-12-2010, 11:08 AM	#424
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Well sure, because the coach isn't accountable for the coin flip. But you can pin the 2-point decision right on him. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

10-12-2010, 11:37 AM	#425
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	We probably should mention that #26 should have ran out of bounds instead of returning the pick 6. Then again, the Jets were throwing before the 2 minute warning

10-12-2010, 05:27 PM	#426
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	__________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

10-13-2010, 04:27 PM	#427
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Simmons column explaining how he accidentally broke the Moss trade on twitter. Bill Simmons: Chaos and confusion tripped up the Randy Moss scoop for ESPN - ESPN

10-13-2010, 05:22 PM	#430
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	word. I love all animals, and I can root for him. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks

10-13-2010, 06:51 PM	#433
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I'm with DT. I am all for him paying his debt to society through the courts and having a right to earn a living. That being said I will never root for him and I hope he is a failure and terrible things happen to him. Lets not act like he had some epiphany and turned himself in. Had he not gotten caught he would still be participating in that business. HE changed because he got caught and changing was the only way to resurrect his career. In my eyes he is still a piece of human waste and always will be.

10-13-2010, 07:22 PM	#434
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I'll probably never root for Vick. Though that's because he's an Eagle.

10-13-2010, 10:14 PM	#436
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	RE- the 2 pointer discussion Does anyone have a breakdown on 2pt conversions made with no Time Out vs offensive TO vs defensive TO? I think once Childress called the TO he should have probably kicked it.

10-13-2010, 11:12 PM	#437
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	I don't understand the argument about being down 15 and kicking the EP so you make sure it's one score. Okay, so now you're down 8 and hey look, it's only one score! But that's not true. It's just an illusion. It's only one score if something else happens. Something else that you could have attempted already. Assume the 2 point conversion will be missed either way. Do you want to find that out with 7 minutes left or with 1 minute left? __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

10-14-2010, 01:23 AM	#441
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	dola, It could also be because he had trouble getting his dog to learn to 'roll over' while living. So having his dog roll over in his grave suffices. I should probably get to bed. Last edited by Greyroofoo : 10-14-2010 at 01:23 AM.

10-14-2010, 03:04 AM	#443
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I think there is a seperation between what happens on the field and off. We aren't cheering for the players own happiness, we are cheering for the team or our own personal entertainment. Football is a game that entertains us and because Vick is a sociopath off the field doesn't mean what he does on the field can't entertain us. Look at Hollywood. Many people find Tom Cruise to be insane. Many women find what he said about Brooke Shields to be deplorable. But that doesn't make his movies less entertaining. It doesn't mean when I go to the theater that I want that movie to suck. I just want to be entertained and Vick does that. I wouldn't piss on the guy if he was on fire, but I'll watch the Eagles and be in aww of what he can do. I'll root for him if my fantasy team or a bet I have needs it. Or if he can make a game more fun to watch.

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