Mandela Effect

[Kodos]

The Mandela Effect

This should settle it!

[Suicane75]

Screw having a beer with 4 people, I wanna watch Dave and Tarcone have a beer.

[dave731]

Damn...I used to be the guy that would post snopes articles to absurd Facebook posts to crush them into the mindless ramblings they were. Looks a lot different on this side of the aisle...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by corbes

It strikes that this "effect" or "phenomenon" is not dissimilar to the numerous studies that have been done on the reliability of eyewitness testimony in criminal trials. At the root of it is that the human memory does not work the way we might think it does.



Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts - Scientific American

And the best way for the human mind to reconcile this within itself is to convince itself that it's not wrong, that what the mind knows to be right is the truth and everything else is wrong. Even if that means reaching for illogical or impossibly unlikely answers to explain why it knows it's right.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Kodos

But... people's minds don't get firmware updates. That's sci-fi.

So was going to the moon...Higgs Boson...space travel...quantum mechanics...etc etc.

[Kodos]

But none of those things change the way our minds work.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And the best way for the human mind to reconcile this within itself is to convince itself that it's not wrong, that what the mind knows to be right is the truth and everything else is wrong. Even if that means reaching for illogical or impossibly unlikely answers to explain why it knows it's right.

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

[Kodos]

There's no evidence that time travel is possible. There is plenty of evidence that our memory sucks.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Kodos

There's no evidence that time travel is possible. There is plenty of evidence that our memory sucks.

I'm not saying time travel...not sure time exists the way we think it does anyway. The 9/11 stuff bothers me the most. How can I remember the Pentagon being under construction with no one working in that part of the building? As much as I watched, I would have known all 7 buildings fell...not just the twin towers and WTC 7! I've watched the zapruder film on JFK before as well...it was always a 4 seater...I know this to be 1000% true! Not sure wtf happened but I see all of it now as changed.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by dave731

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

Your mind is telling you to eliminate certain things as impossible, in order to reconcile what it believes is the truth.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Your mind is telling you to eliminate certain things as impossible, in order to reconcile what it believes is the truth.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by dave731

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

“Luckily,” he said, “You have come to exactly the right place with your interesting problem, for there is no such word as impossible in my dictionary. In fact,” he added, brandishing the abused book, “Everything between herring and marmalade appears to be missing.”

--Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

[corbes]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The Mandela Effect has caused me additional despair over changing people's minds once they are made up.

People confronted with uncontroverted evidence that they mis-remembered something do not accept the evidence. They adopt multiverse theory before admitting that they are wrong.

If that's how stubborn people are over pure facts, I can't see how people ever change their minds over other less cut-and-dry issues (like, e.g., how investment tax breaks affect the economy).

This point remains both pertinent and depressing.

[digamma]

This thread took a weird turn.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by digamma

This thread took a weird turn.

I would venture there are people who remember things the way I do...just afraid to accept the truth.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by dave731

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

And you think that it is impossible that your memory is wrong.

Most of us think that it is possible.

That seems to be the disconnect.

[corbes]

Dave, serious question. If you were on a jury, and two witnesses took the stand and provided conflicting stories about what happened, would you be able to assess their credibility and make a decision about what facts were true, or would you be inclined to believe that both stories were true, and that multiple universes was a potential or even likely reason for the inconsistency?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by dave731

I would venture there are people who remember things the way I do...just afraid to accept the truth.

So independent from this thread, another forum member and I were talking about the Berenstain Bears, and the Mandela Effect came up. I would have sworn it was Berenstein. Well, went home and checked my kids's books, and nope, Berenstain. Yeah, I was just...wrong. Truth accepted.

[Suicane75]

I think the most ironic thing about all of this, is that the Nelson Mandela died in prison thingy is the least mis remembered fact of most of the theories.

[Kodos]

It's so silly. I barely even paid attention to the Berenstain Bears. They were a D-level of entertainment, on par with Marmaduke or Clifford the Big Red Dog. Do I remember it as "-stein"? You bet'cha. Is it surprising I could get the name of a marginal piece of entertainment from long ago wrong? No.

If you came to me and said that the fat cartoon cat who likes lasagna is actually "Carfield" and then proved it to me... THAT would be a big deal and hard to reconcile with my memory.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by corbes

Dave, serious question. If you were on a jury, and two witnesses took the stand and provided conflicting stories about what happened, would you be able to assess their credibility and make a decision about what facts were true, or would you be inclined to believe that both stories were true, and that multiple universes was a potential or even likely reason for the inconsistency?

I'd weigh the evidence, the testimonies, and make a decision based off of that.

The thing you guys are missing is that I can't misremember seeing The Arctic ice at the top of the globe where nothing is now. The North Pole now sits in the water...how the heck do I miss the entire Arctic melting? Look at a globe and look at the top of it...does it not look wrong to you?

[dave731]

Originally Posted by digamma

So independent from this thread, another forum member and I were talking about the Berenstain Bears, and the Mandela Effect came up. I would have sworn it was Berenstein. Well, went home and checked my kids's books, and nope, Berenstain. Yeah, I was just...wrong. Truth accepted.

Firmware updated...what would be completely funny is if they reverted back to Berenstein.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I think the most ironic thing about all of this, is that the Nelson Mandela died in prison thingy is the least mis remembered fact of most of the theories.

This for sure...I had no idea either way.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's so silly. I barely even paid attention to the Berenstain Bears. They were a D-level of entertainment, on par with Marmaduke or Clifford the Big Red Dog. Do I remember it as "-stein"? You bet'cha. Is it surprising I could get the name of a marginal piece of entertainment from long ago wrong? No.

We had a large number of Berenstain Bears books as a kid, I read them a lot. So did my younger sister after I outgrew them, so they were constantly around. I also swore it was Berenstein. It was a pretty big "whoa" moment when I realized I was wrong.


But yeah, my reaction once I learned this was to think how crazy it is how the human brain and memory works.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's so silly. I barely even paid attention to the Berenstain Bears. They were a D-level of entertainment, on par with Marmaduke or Clifford the Big Red Dog. Do I remember it as "-stein"? You bet'cha. Is it surprising I could get the name of a marginal piece of entertainment from long ago wrong? No.

If you came to me and said that the fat cartoon cat who likes lasagna is actually "Carfield" and then proved it to me... THAT would be a big deal and hard to reconcile with my memory.

This was the main way I saw Berenstain Bears. The Easter Bunny saying he quit and singing a song complaining about Easter and spring always appealed to me

But I do remember Berenstein as well. Probably because the word was written in cursive and I don't pay attention that closely to words.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by dave731

The thing you guys are missing is that I can't misremember seeing The Arctic ice at the top of the globe where nothing is now. The North Pole now sits in the water...how the heck do I miss the entire Arctic melting? Look at a globe and look at the top of it...does it not look wrong to you?

From Wikipedia

While the South Pole lies on a continental land mass, the North Pole is located in the middle of the Arctic Ocean amid waters that are almost permanently covered with constantly shifting sea ice. This makes it impractical to construct a permanent station at the North Pole (unlike the South Pole). However, the Soviet Union, and later Russia, constructed a number of manned drifting stations on a generally annual basis since 1937, some of which have passed over or very close to the Pole. Since 2002, the Russians have also annually established a base, Barneo, close to the Pole. This operates for a few weeks during early spring. Studies in the 2000s predicted that the North Pole may become seasonally ice-free because of Arctic ice shrinkage, with timescales varying from 2016[1][2] to the late 21st century or later.

We're similar ages, I remember the same in that maps/globes always used to show an ice mass at the North Pole, Santa lived on ice not water, Top Gear drove to the North Pole, etc - all ice, not water.

But maps change, studies make further information available - I haven't paid any real attention to ice/water at the North Pole since school, so it was surprise, but shifting ice, seasonal changes, better mapping information are all better and more likely explanations than a shift in the space/time continuum!

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by dave731

Gandalf said "run, you fools!"

"Fly, you fools" doesn't make a damn bit of sense there.

Why doesn't it make sense? Not every line is meant to be taken literally. He's not telling them to literally fly, but to quickly get the hell out of there. Fly instead of run emphasizes how fast they should do that.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Why doesn't it make sense? Not every line is meant to be taken literally. He's not telling them to literally fly, but to quickly get the hell out of there. Fly instead of run emphasizes how fast they should do that.

agreed. it's a very Gandalf thing to say. All very fantasy...

I didn't know there were people bitching about it. Nor that people misremembered the line.

It is pretty memorable the way the movie did it.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by AlexB

From Wikipedia


We're similar ages, I remember the same in that maps/globes always used to show an ice mass at the North Pole, Santa lived on ice not water, Top Gear drove to the North Pole, etc - all ice, not water.

But maps change, studies make further information available - I haven't paid any real attention to ice/water at the North Pole since school, so it was surprise, but shifting ice, seasonal changes, better mapping information are all better and more likely explanations than a shift in the space/time continuum!

Then you could find an old map depicting the polar Arctic ice and South America directly south of North America...shouldn't be difficult to find an "old" map right? I dug out my old encyclopedia Britanicas to find a picture of a map resembling what I have always known it to be and can't find one!

[corbes]

A Peters projection map is really going to blow your mind. Look how big Africa is now!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...jection_SW.jpg

[dave731]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

agreed. it's a very Gandalf thing to say. All very fantasy...

I didn't know there were people bitching about it. Nor that people misremembered the line.

It is pretty memorable the way the movie did it.

What's I found interesting was how many of the YouTube videos were titled "Run, you fools"...the way I always remembered the scene...

[dave731]

Originally Posted by corbes

A Peters projection map is really going to blow your mind. Look how big Africa is now!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...jection_SW.jpg

It's not just me...I've asked multiple people what's wrong with the map or globe I have and they can point out the changes but we can't find any of the maps that depict it the "old" way...nowhere.

[digamma]

At some point, maybe you just have to realize that blackjack isn't your game.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by dave731

It's not just me...I've asked multiple people what's wrong with the map or globe I have and they can point out the changes but we can't find any of the maps that depict it the "old" way...nowhere.

I think you're confusing maps (which show only land masses) with the globe (which shows ice masses as well). Exhibit A.

[Kodos]

Exhibit B.

[Kodos]

Exhibit C. This is an actual photo from space.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Exhibit B.

Not the same...close with the North Pole but South America is way off.

[Ksyrup]

The Berenstain Bears is the easiest one to reconcile because it's based entirely on pronunciation and the fact that our minds txxch us to rxxd wxxds bxxxd on contxxt. So If I know what I'm looking at when I see Berenxxxxn in the context of a children's book or cartoon, then my mind doesn't have to focus on (or care) what's in between. And when you combine that with everyone pronouncing it as "steen" instead of "stain", there's your answer.

It's also easy to validate, since the books, cartoons and other materials/documentation exist from years ago.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by dave731

What's I found interesting was how many of the YouTube videos were titled "Run, you fools"...the way I always remembered the scene...

ha!

I was curious but I did find this.



Even Bakshi's version has "Fly"

[corbes]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's also easy to validate, since the books, cartoons and other materials/documentation exist from years ago.

No, you see, Ksyrup, that's precisely the problem: the only evidence we can now find is that which exists in our CERN-modified existence. All the evidence of the other universe was left behind when we crossed over.

Also, this isn't new. Did you know that Thoreau never said that most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still inside them? All the book says now is that the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. WTFBBQ?

[dave731]

Originally Posted by corbes

No, you see, Ksyrup, that's precisely the problem: the only evidence we can now find is that which exists in our CERN-modified existence. All the evidence of the other universe was left behind when we crossed over.

Also, this isn't new. Did you know that Thoreau never said that most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still inside them? All the book says now is that the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. WTFBBQ?

Not sure if serious or trolling...Are you coming with me corbes!?!

Welcome to Team Old Earth!

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by dave731

Then you could find an old map depicting the polar Arctic ice and South America directly south of North America...shouldn't be difficult to find an "old" map right? I dug out my old encyclopedia Britanicas to find a picture of a map resembling what I have always known it to be and can't find one!

We differ in the South America thing - there are geographical reasons for the North pole ice mass, just plain being wrong about continental alignment!

Had a weird one myself yesterday in that picked up a new car with a raised screen in the central dash. My old car had the same screen, and automatically retracted when the car was locked.

I had to email the guy how he managed in the showroom to get the screen to sink into the dash like my old car: I distinctly 'remember' it and would have put good money on it having taken place... didn't happen, never been possible and googling confirms this model has always had a non-retractable screen. No freaky time displacement thing, just that I was wrong.

Having said that, some weird CERN shit is definitely the most rational explanation I can think of as to how my team won the Premier League the season before last, still feels very surreal

[dave731]

I haven't seen many sports Mandela affects. I double checked though to make sure Clemson was still national champions.

[AlexB]

In all seriousness I wouldn't be that surprised if the 'glitch in the Matrix' argument was behind some of this stuff

[Ryche]

When it comes to maps people are just really bad at geography

[dave731]

Damnit, I just found out Bogey never said "play it again,Sam" in this reality. Really?!

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by dave731

Why? Is "because they can" not a viable answer?

Completely outside the realm of possibility? No. Remotely likely? Also, no. Actions would tend to have a purpose behind them.

Originally Posted by dave731

I'm not sure how I was missing all the other stuff before. Maybe our minds are getting "firmware" updates from the AI CPU and the people who can see it are rejecting it?

So everybody's got a chip in their head or whatever that no doctor has ever discovered? I think not. Regarding the other stuff, you mentioned 9-11 is the most convincing to you. I don't remember them saying anything, ever, about the Pentagon being under construction for example. The Gandalf line I remember exactly as it is.

I think it's a GOOD.THING that you are carrying what you honestly believe through to it's conclusion. As discussed and shown elsewhere in this thread though, human memory is a very imperfect thing. When there's no evidence of time travel, ever, presuming it has occurred because we don't like the alternate conclusion(misremembering) is simply illogical. It's like the kids game of telephone. The fact that the message is totally different at the end than the beginning doesn't mean somebody intentionally changed it along the way. It means we are generally not good at precisely replicating things we've witnessed. in the legal system it's been demonstrated over and over again that eyewitness testimony isn't reliable. part of the reason I think behind the whole idea of requiring multiple witnesses ...

Bottom line is I agree with the others. The big conflict here is putting too much stock in your memory. The most logical conclusion is that we simply aren't as good as we wish we were in that faculty.

[dave731]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/489998

So, the brain is not a computer?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by digamma

At some point, maybe you just have to realize that blackjack isn't your game.

much love

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by dave731

Damnit, I just found out Bogey never said "play it again,Sam" in this reality. Really?!

And this is yet another wonderful case of the most common explanation here -- when we receive something of modest consequence (like a memorable movie line) that is structured awkwardly, our mind is geared to fix it. We remember it in the version that is less awkward. "Luke, I am your father" flows better than "no... I am your father." Same with the "Sam" quote, and countless others.

(We see the same phenomenon happen with eyesight... lots of deliberately created optical illusions build on this...there's a great one with lots of very faint color blotches that seemingly disappear when you stare at a center dot -- your brain hates "noise" and is programmed to filter it out)

Understanding that memory is faulty, especially when it's vague, is the key here. No extra-dimensional nonsense is needed to explain every single thing that seems to have you baffled.