Ebola

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

How many people do you think really give a fuck about that risk?

Sierra Leone 71% Muslim. Guinea 85% Muslim. (Liberia the opposite direction, about 86% Christian).

And I'm not trying to be ugly, I'm just asking you what I think is a very genuine part of the equation.

Oh, I don't think many people give a shit about the Africans. And I think that's part of the resentment of the doctors expressed in the United States by some people, and by the authorities in NY in the way they're treating that one doctor. That's part of what I admire so much about the volunteers who help there. But the more the outbreak is contained in Africa, the less chance of the odd case trickling here. Nigeria being declared Ebola-free (for now) was a pretty huge win in that department. And when Texas hospital botched pretty much everything, from recognizing the issue to having awareness in treatment, resulted in a grand total of 2 U.S. healthcare worker transmissions. The stakes are just much bigger in Africa. Positive steps there will have so much more impact.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Nigeria being declared Ebola-free (for now) was a pretty huge win in that department.

And what was a major part of that equation?

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And what was a major part of that equation?

Nigeria had more than two people enter their country with Ebola. Because of geography. If this outbreak was happening in Mexico or Central America, then maybe we would approach things differently. But really, if we had that kind of situation that Nigeria faced, our economy wouldn't survive. We're a more fragile people. If the government was coming out and imposing more restrictive policies, the panic would increase even more. Economic activity would collapse. The average Nigerian is probably more aware and "street smart" of the real Ebola risk and necessary precautions to take than the average American, and much better at taking things in stride and not making the situation worse with panic.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

The average Nigerian is probably more aware and "street smart" of the real Ebola risk and necessary precautions to take than the average American, and much better at taking things in stride and not making the situation worse with panic.

Not true, in terms of Ebloa smarts, according to the acounts of their response. Which included screen of all arrivals, and closing of schools for six weeks.

[TroyF]

1) F the media for creating this panic. Complete and total scumbags.

2) F the DWB doctors coming back and not going into a self imposed quarantine. F the nurses in Dallas for not doing the same thing. F the government for not stepping in and doing something about it sooner. This isn't a panic, but when you read a story about DWB doctors out in public or the nurse who treated the patient in Dallas flying because her temperature was high, but not high enough to be a concern. . . it makes you wonder what planet you live on.

3) F the governors. Force the 21 day quarantine. You actually got that right. Then you F it up by putting this lady in a MFing tent? Seriously? A granola bar in 7 hours? Calling her sick? These bastards can all jump off a cliff. Hell, you had the PR battle won. Now you screwed it up massively and have turned public opinion against you because of you treating this women the way you did. There is a real chance they'll lose this thing in court and someone else WILL get sick and die from this because of how these guys acted.(I doubt very seriously a court is going to allow this kind of treatment to continue)

There isn't anyone who comes out of this mess looking good as far as I'm concerned. The medical professionals are acting like fools, the media is fear mongering, the politicians are fear mongering AND putting out half baked policies, and too many in the public are buying into all the fear mongering.

Ugh. . .

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not true, in terms of Ebloa smarts, according to the acounts of their response. Which included screen of all arrivals, and closing of schools for six weeks.

So just screenings, and not even the mandatory quarantines that people are calling for here? I actually would have assumed travel restrictions beyond even quarantines.

If the outbreak was in Mexico and and the U.S. had milder but similar issues regarding widespread poverty and poor and unequipped hospitals, maybe you could make an argument for closing schools in the southwest for a while. I don't think the U.S. economy would ever survive that though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

So just screenings, and not even the mandatory quarantines that people are calling for here? I actually would have assumed travel restrictions beyond even quarantines.

As I recall, they were pretty strict at the borders (have read this previously), screenings were air travel related moreso.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, she's definitely a selfish person who isn't doing anything to help the "cause". Not like the true patriots spreading ignorance and panic on the internet.

Edit: She hasn't been told how long she'll be there. She has no flushable toilet, no shower, no clothes other than uncomfortable hospital garb, no TV, nothing to read, no access to a lawyer. She just has to stare at a wall for 3 weeks. She hasn't been told how long she'd be there, and she wasn't told of any plan before they arrested her. There's no real plan about how to do this. And it's all at the directive of a politician (who has already publicly announced she was "obviously ill", even though she's tested negative), and not any medical authority. Maybe because she has spoken out on these conditions, other politicians will try to avoid bad press and treat these people a little better. So maybe it's not so "selfish" to bring these conditions to light, it may just help others from being imprisoned without a plan or access to basic necessities.

There's so much resentment towards these people, from the general public, and now the government. I don't get it. Things are couched in terms of "risk" and such, but I see an underlying resentment as well. People would like this just to be Africa's problem so I think some of this attitude towards these volunteers who form this bridge between Africa and the U.S. in the context of this outbreak has that tone. People didn't even want those doctors transferred directly to the hospital in Atlanta. The only chance Ebola has in the U.S. if the volunteers give up the fight in Africa, and fortunately, that's not much of a chance, because these people are motivated by the welfare of humanity and not fear, or politics, or what other people or the government thinks of them. We'd be so much better off if we had more people like them and so many fewer panicky idiots.

All this and still zero transmissions in America and Europe outside of the healthcare field (and only 3 inside of it, including Spain). We have a ways to go to hit the 1,000 U.S. death toll predicted earlier in this thread. (Though about 20 times that number will be killed by the flu before spring. Why no mandatory quarantines/ prisons for something that will kill 20X the number of the most pessimistic Ebola death protection in this thread - and about 20,000X what the actually Ebola U.S. death toll will be)? It's not out of the "realm of possibility" that someone with the flu boards a plane and infects people who later die from complications from that flu. In fact statistically, that probably happens every year. It's "mostly" the very old, the very young, and very sick, but not entirely. Otherwise healthy people will die from the flu too - certainly more than will die from Ebola in the U.S.

Hell why aren't we quarantining the anti-vaxers? Measles is a much bigger threat than ebola.

[sterlingice]

We are still at "lightning deaths via telephone > Ebola deaths" in this country

SI

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Hell why aren't we quarantining the anti-vaxers? Measles is a much bigger threat than ebola.

They aren't sick. The concern with this, and I don't have the actual name for it, with the number of kids that have not been vaccinated so low, there is not a critical mass for the disease to propagate and reach epidemic levels. If the percentage of unvaccinated kids gets to a certain level then it becomes much more serious.

[TroyF]

Herd immunity.

[albionmoonlight]

Returning Ebola workers shouldn't be treated like "criminals and prisoners" - Vox

I note that someone above made an ad-hominem attack on the vox.com writers, which, under the rules of internet logic, allows y'all to completely disregard the logic and content of this post without having to engage (or even read) it.

Still, I thought that it was worth passing on a touch of well-reasoned logic to demonstrate the folly and counterproductive nature of the "OMG!! QUARANTINE EVERYONE!!" hysterics.

The tl;dr version--when we treat people fighting Ebola like criminals, we make less people want to go fight Ebola. Which makes it more likely that Ebola cases will make it to the Western world.

[miked]

But Jon says they are all idiots and detriments to society. What do I do!!!?? Too bad we don't feel this way about quarantining people who drink too much and drive, who are probably about 100000000x more likely to kill somebody.

[flounder]

Originally Posted by miked

But Jon says they are all idiots and detriments to society. What do I do!!!?? Too bad we don't feel this way about quarantining people who drink too much and drive, who are probably about 100000000x more likely to kill somebody.

Or smokers.

[Kodos]

YaleNews | Without swift influx of substantial aid, Ebola epidemic in Africa poised to explode

[jeff061]

And the more we treat asymptomatic medical professionals like criminals, the less likely they are to help in Africa, the longer it takes to contain and the more chance of further infections state side.

Eh, never mind, I'm with the masses. Quarantines for everyone!! That's the long term intelligent thinking I can get behind.

I hope Christie's idiocy bites him in the ass.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Returning Ebola workers shouldn't be treated like "criminals and prisoners" - Vox

I note that someone above made an ad-hominem attack on the vox.com writers, which, under the rules of internet logic, allows y'all to completely disregard the logic and content of this post without having to engage (or even read) it.

Was this at me for calling them hipsters?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

They aren't sick.

Correct me if I'm wrong and I've somehow missed something here, but neither is the person in quarantine. A non-medical personnel at the airport used the least accurate temp reading possible to say she had a fever. The anti-vaxers are a much greater threat to everybody's children.

[molson]

New Jersey is letting her out to go back home to Maine. They must not have liked their chances either to legally defend these conditions, or their jurisdiction to detain someone who wasn't either a resident of the state or even technically in the state at the time of detention.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

New Jersey is letting her out to go back home to Maine. They must not have liked their chances either to legally defend these conditions, or their jurisdiction to detain someone who wasn't either a resident of the state or even technically in the state at the time of detention.

Or maybe the annoying bitch was just more f'n trouble than she was worth, if somebody is dumb enough to take her then by all means, have a nice flight.

The real comedy would ensue if Maine filed suit against NJ for endangerment.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Returning Ebola workers shouldn't be treated like "criminals and prisoners" - Vox

I note that someone above made an ad-hominem attack on the vox.com writers, which, under the rules of internet logic, allows y'all to completely disregard the logic and content of this post without having to engage (or even read) it.

Still, I thought that it was worth passing on a touch of well-reasoned logic to demonstrate the folly and counterproductive nature of the "OMG!! QUARANTINE EVERYONE!!" hysterics.

The tl;dr version--when we treat people fighting Ebola like criminals, we make less people want to go fight Ebola. Which makes it more likely that Ebola cases will make it to the Western world.

Or break your way for the anti-hysteric hysterics. Ether way it is hysterical.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Or maybe the annoying bitch was just more f'n trouble than she was worth, if somebody is dumb enough to take her then by all means, have a nice flight.

The real comedy would ensue if Maine filed suit against NJ for endangerment.

I'm sure this is a joint resolution by all parties. But if Maine wants to meet her at the border (or airport) and lock her up, they could try.

And if quarantines aren't worth the trouble if the quarantined individual is annoying, then their necessity in the first place is questionable at best (at least the New Jersey version). I mean, I haven't read any textbooks on quarantines, but I'm pretty sure, "if she's being a bitch about it don't bother" isn't a part of the accepted protocol. Unless of course your motives are political or punitive rather than medical.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

And if quarantines aren't worth the trouble if the quarantined individual is annoying, then their necessity in the first place is questionable at best (at least the New Jersey version). I mean, I haven't read any textbooks on quarantines, but I'm pretty sure, "if she's being a bitch about it don't bother" isn't a part of the accepted protocol. Unless of course your motives are political or punitive rather than medical.

+1

[flounder]

Originally Posted by molson

And if quarantines aren't worth the trouble if the quarantined individual is annoying, then their necessity in the first place is questionable at best (at least the New Jersey version). I mean, I haven't read any textbooks on quarantines, but I'm pretty sure, "if she's being a bitch about it don't bother" isn't a part of the accepted protocol. Unless of course your motives are political or punitive rather than medical.

Actually, it's scriptural

Originally Posted by Matthew 7:12

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. Unless they're a bitch, then fuck them, verily.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And if that means shooting the first bastard to _______, so be it.

I'm going on 13 years on this board, and the thing that keeps me coming back is finding out who or what is on top of Jon's kill list. So far, I think Jon would have only shot me twice, not so bad.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Unless of course your motives are political or punitive rather than medical.

Riiiight ... and NY and NJ governors have such similar politics and all (okay, actually they have moreso than I care to consider, I dislike Christie profusely).

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Riiiight ... and NY and NJ governors have such similar politics and all (okay, actually they have moreso than I care to consider, I dislike Christie profusely).

But are they reacting to actual medical concerns or the fear in their communities? Everything I've seen so far shows me politicians reacting to fear.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Riiiight ... and NY and NJ governors have such similar politics and all (okay, actually they have moreso than I care to consider, I dislike Christie profusely).

Ebola fear doesn't seem to be a left/right thing. Resentment of doctors I'm thinking maybe does lean right.

[larrymcg421]

The left likes Cuomo about as much as the right likes Christie.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Or maybe the annoying bitch was just more f'n trouble than she was worth, if somebody is dumb enough to take her then by all means, have a nice flight.

The real comedy would ensue if Maine filed suit against NJ for endangerment.

I like how we're all just ho-hum about the misogyny in the post above.

You kiss your wife with that mouth?

[TroyF]

The real test now is what happens in 21 days. If she doesn't have a problem and stays healthy, the PR battle is going to swing in the "why the hell are they doing this?" type of attitude.

She goes back to Maine, gets sick and it is proven she's been zipping around in public like the other doctors and nurses? The public is going to go from fear to anger. It's going to get very, very ugly.

I hope she doesn't get sick and we don't have to find out about that scenario.

[larrymcg421]

I'd be pretty angry if she goes out in public and spits in someone's face or molests them, but I'm pretty confident that if she does get symptomatic, she can make it to a hospital without getting bodily fluids on another person. I also would've been totally comfortable with Ryan White attending my school.

[flere-imsaho]

Also, she lives in northern Maine, which is already having winter.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'd be pretty angry if she goes out in public and spits in someone's face or molests them, but I'm pretty confident that if she does get symptomatic, she can make it to a hospital without getting bodily fluids on another person. I also would've been totally comfortable with Ryan White attending my school.

1) I'm not talking about you and me, I'm talking about the general public and you damned well know I'm right.

2) I would be kind of angry, to be blunt. The doctor in NY bowled. Did he use is own ball or a house ball? Shoes? It's an activity where it is easy to brush up against people and for sweat to transfer. (source: I was seriously into bowling throughout my youth, competing in competitive leagues and tournaments)

3) I would have had no problem with Ryan White attending my school either.

[molson]

How many U.S. volunteers have been to West Africa and have returned at some point? I think a lot of people would be freaked out if they realized it was more than 2. It has to be in the hundreds, right? (Probably thousands if we include non-health care professionals who have been in the vicinity of ebola.) People are only freaked out about this one in New Jersey/Maine because New Jersey decided to take this stand. But there's others.....and they live among us.......

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by molson

How many U.S. volunteers have been to West Africa and have returned at some point? I think a lot of people would be freaked out if they realized it was more than 2. It has to be in the hundreds, right? People are only freaked out about this one in New Jersey/Maine because New Jersey decided to take this stand. But there's others.....and they live among us........

You haven't figured out yet that this is PR battle? You think if this nurse gets sick, the report will be "she's one of 232 doctors to come back, with only 2 of them getting sick" or will it be NURSE WHO THREW FIT ABOUT QUARANTINE IS SICK, SOMETHING MUST BE DONE NOW!!!!!!!

Look, ebola is a national news story despite many hockey teams averaging more goals a game than we've had ebola viruses confirmed in the United States. You think one more is going to make the media back off and say "don't worry, we are overblowing this?"

Really?

[larrymcg421]

I don't care if the guy bowled. Not one bit. If he started getting symptomatic while bowling and/or wearing house shoes and didn't tell anyone, only then would I get mad.

Obviously, it's easier to catch Ebola than it is to catch AIDS. But it's also much, much harder than most people think. And the similarity to the Ryan White case is people are acting out because they have poor information. Which is why government should be focused on educating the public instead of taking these big, strong, oh-I'm-an-awesome-and-decisive-leader positions that may drive up their poll numbers, but end up making the situation much worse.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I don't care if the guy bowled. Not one bit. If he started getting symptomatic while bowling and/or wearing house shoes and didn't tell anyone, only then would I get mad.

Obviously, it's easier to catch Ebola than it is to catch AIDS. But it's also much, much harder than most people think. And the similarity to the Ryan White case is people are acting out because they have poor information. Which is why government should be focused on educating the public instead of taking these big, strong, oh-I'm-an-awesome-and-decisive-leader positions that may drive up their poll numbers, but end up making the situation much worse.

Let us all hold hands and sing campfire songs!!! Do you understand what ONE single case of a person who hasn't been to Africa or worked as a nurse with an ebola patient will do right now? Imagine if it's a child? Or a cute 23 year old with a bikini model body?

You think what NY and NJ did is bad? Holy hell, get real larry. The best thing all of these people can do is stay in their houses for 21 days and take visitors. One single infection and this thing is going to blow. It isn't going to kill the docs to skip bowling for a few weeks.

[molson]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Let us all hold hands and sing campfire songs!!! Do you understand what ONE single case of a person who hasn't been to Africa or worked as a nurse with an ebola patient will do right now? Imagine if it's a child? Or a cute 23 year old with a bikini model body?

You think what NY and NJ did is bad? Holy hell, get real larry. The best thing all of these people can do is stay in their houses for 21 days and take visitors. One single infection and this thing is going to blow. It isn't going to kill the docs to skip bowling for a few weeks.

Ya, I have tried to keep in mind that some of this stuff makes sense if only to try to protect the economy. Perception matters. But the government can also make things worse by feeding the fear. And we would probably be better off the more educated we can be, about both the real risks and the made-up ones. It's a tough balance. I'm glad it's not my job.

[BillJasper]

Flu kills tens of thousands every year, yet Ebola kills one and people are acting like it is the end times.

[molson]

Maybe people would be a little less scared, and we wouldn't be as at risk for economic damage if there's another case somewhere, if they knew how many doctors and people come back from West Africa all the time and mix with the population. They're out there bowling and eating and fucking. So education and reality has to have a part in this as well, not just appeasement of the fears. Ground zero patient in Dallas was out and symptomatic for a while. He didn't infect anyone until he got to the hospital, not even his family. In this outbreak, in the U.S., this catastrophic failure in awareness and precautions resulted in 2 infections, and 0 in the general public. So that's the high range. Maybe if we do things just a little better in the future, we can cut that down to 1 or 0 if it happens again. I don't see the formula that gets us to 1,000 dead (or 500, or 10, or IMO, even 1 or 2.) If it's even possible to walk around an urban center for a week and live with a bunch of people and go in and out of a hospital and NOBODY gets infected (and that's with symptoms), that should tell you a lot. I mean, it was no picnic for those 2 in Dallas, and hopefully we've learned from those mistakes and won't repeat them. But I'd bet mistakes in the hospitals in my town have killed more than 2 people today.

[nol]

Originally Posted by molson

Ebola fear doesn't seem to be a left/right thing. Resentment of doctors I'm thinking maybe does lean right.

Yeah, who can trust them and their fancy book learnin'?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Still, I thought that it was worth passing on a touch of well-reasoned logic to demonstrate the folly and counterproductive nature of the "OMG!! QUARANTINE EVERYONE!!" hysterics.

The tl;dr version--when we treat people fighting Ebola like criminals, we make less people want to go fight Ebola. Which makes it more likely that Ebola cases will make it to the Western world.

I think the nurse is doing some damage with her stance. I agree completely that protocol should be put in place where people actually exposed to contagions (rather than some of the hysteria that's gone on) are treated well when quarantined. But equating a quarantine itself to criminal treatment is hyperbole. If that's how DWB workers feel, then perhaps Jon is right about them.

Flu kills about 3,000 people under the age of 65 per year. Which make flu fairly serious. But that's out of the millions who catch the flu. More people die in traffic accidents, but we don't make people wear seat belts when they catch the flu. Point being that the flu is the most relevant experience we can understand.

So, let's say you have a one in 10,000 chance of dying from the flu. That's fairly serious. Yet we seem to accept that risk and we don't insist on people having flu shots and quarantining themselves when they get sick. And the flu is easier to transmit than Ebola.

However, some flu strains have become more serious. Pandemics have killed hundreds of thousands (the Hong Kong flu in 1968 being one). Maybe we're too young to have heard about these outbreaks. Maybe nothing compares to the endless media hype we're exposed to today. But somewhere between the regular outbreak today and the pandemic above, things start to change. And that's for something with a mortality rate below 1%. This strain of Ebola has a mortality rate of about 60%.

Life in Liberia has broken down. This may end up killing a noticeable percentage of their entire population. No matter how many health care professionals try to help, they can't stop transmission. Too many people are sick and when it gets to that point, it's not just shoddy burial rituals or people who don't have the equipment or don't know not to touch vomit. That doctor got it somehow. And he wasn't certain enough about exposure to self-quarantine.

I don't think we want to know what Ebola could do in the US if it takes over, the way it has in west Africa. Is it likely? No. Not at all. But if we don't take it seriously, maybe. And a big part of taking it seriously is taking a long look at this case and establishing a protocol.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Let us all hold hands and sing campfire songs!!!

Not sure what this has to do with my argument about educating the public? But sure, if one of these DWB people came back from Sierra Leone and wants to hold and and sing campfire songs with me, I'd be up for it. It wouldn't scare me one bit. I'll go bowling with them, too.

Do you understand what ONE single case of a person who hasn't been to Africa or worked as a nurse with an ebola patient will do right now? Imagine if it's a child? Or a cute 23 year old with a bikini model body?

You think what NY and NJ did is bad? Holy hell, get real larry. The best thing all of these people can do is stay in their houses for 21 days and take visitors. One single infection and this thing is going to blow. It isn't going to kill the docs to skip bowling for a few weeks.

Yes, what Christie and Cuomo did is bad because it did nothing to stop the spread and actually probably made things worse in a ridiculous attempt to grandstand and make themselves appear to be important, decisive leaders.

I agree that if we go from 3 cases to 4 cases, people would go nuts, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. The government (and media) should be focused on driving down this hysteria, not increasing it. Christie and Cuomo only reinforced the hysteria by making it seem like the spread of this disease is more likely than reality.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not sure what this has to do with my argument about educating the public? But sure, if one of these DWB people came back from Sierra Leone and wants to hold and and sing campfire songs with me, I'd be up for it. It wouldn't scare me one bit. I'll go bowling with them, too.



Yes, what Christie and Cuomo did is bad because it did nothing to stop the spread and actually probably made things worse in a ridiculous attempt to grandstand and make themselves appear to be important, decisive leaders.

I agree that if we go from 3 cases to 4 cases, people would go nuts, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. The government (and media) should be focused on driving down this hysteria, not increasing it. Christie and Cuomo only reinforced the hysteria by making it seem like the spread of this disease is more likely than reality.

This is where we keep drifting apart. You keep talking about what SHOULD happen. I'm talking about what WILL happen.

"Ebola isn't a major threat and it is incredibly hard to get, listen to the doc next on CNN" is NOT going to sell as many ads as "EVERYONE RUN, DEATH IS AT YOUR FRONT DOOR, YOUR FAMILY IS GETTING NEARER AND NEARER TO DEATHS DOOR EACH DAY"

I wouldn't hang out with the person who went to Africa. Why? Because I know damne dwell if I did get infected, their lives would be ruined and that of hundreds if not thousands of other people flying in from Africa would go through hell.

That is not a risk worth taking. Just zip it up and stay in for 21 days. I'm telling you, the first person who gets this virus who wasn't in Africa or a hospital is going to set off something horrible. Keep fighting for what people "should" do if you want, just understand what they "will" do is going to be different.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm telling you, the first person who gets this virus who wasn't in Africa or a hospital is going to set off something horrible

And if you see that, I honestly don't think mobs with pitchforks & torches as the "welcoming committee" for inbound flights is all that far behind.

At some point, either the government submits to the will of the people or the people will take matters in their own hands.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This is where we keep drifting apart. You keep talking about what SHOULD happen. I'm talking about what WILL happen.

"Ebola isn't a major threat and it is incredibly hard to get, listen to the doc next on CNN" is NOT going to sell as many ads as "EVERYONE RUN, DEATH IS AT YOUR FRONT DOOR, YOUR FAMILY IS GETTING NEARER AND NEARER TO DEATHS DOOR EACH DAY"

I wouldn't hang out with the person who went to Africa. Why? Because I know damne dwell if I did get infected, their lives would be ruined and that of hundreds if not thousands of other people flying in from Africa would go through hell.

That is not a risk worth taking. Just zip it up and stay in for 21 days. I'm telling you, the first person who gets this virus who wasn't in Africa or a hospital is going to set off something horrible. Keep fighting for what people "should" do if you want, just understand what they "will" do is going to be different.

Um, I'm arguing what they (i.e. Cuomo, Christie, the media) SHOULD do because it would lessen the extremes of what people WILL do. And I'm arguing that what Christie and Cuomo did only made what people WILL do worse without doing much to stop the spread (and if anything, probably increased the likelihood). The possibility that a lack of aid workers makes it harder to stop the spread in Africa (which means it WILL eventually spread here) is far scarier to me than than if the number of US cases increased from 3 to 4.

[AENeuman]

Here's my votes:

1. No to Ebola person in my school
2. Yes to Ryan Write.
3. Trout

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And if you see that, I honestly don't think mobs with pitchforks & torches as the "welcoming committee" for inbound flights is all that far behind.

At some point, either the government submits to the will of the people or the people will take matters in their own hands.

I could see you out there a with a pitch fork (ironically exposing yourself to ebola), but more realistically people would just panic more, spend less money, not leave the house, etc. The stress would shorten their lives more than ebola will.

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And if you see that, I honestly don't think mobs with pitchforks & torches as the "welcoming committee" for inbound flights is all that far behind.

At some point, either the government submits to the will of the people or the people will take matters in their own hands.

Even if the will of the people is misguided and ignorant? I would imagine the average mouth-breather would fall for these types of shenanigans, but you do at least seem slightly more intelligent than the average person. How do you equate your lack of stupidity with the stupidity of your views?