Cops Kill Mentally Challenged Teen Using "Non-Lethal" Force

[Noop]

DETROIT, Michigan (CNN) -- Renea Mitchell said her son Robert wanted "nothing to do" with police, a feeling she said is "nothing new" among teenagers in Detroit.

But she wants to know why police felt they needed to use a Taser on a scared, 16-year-old, learning-disabled boy with no criminal record.

Robert Mitchell died April 10 in an abandoned house in Warren, just across Eight Mile Road from Detroit proper. His death led to a lawsuit and a protest last week by about 100 people on the thoroughfare, which separates Detroit from its northern suburbs.

Police said the teen was resisting arrest after bolting from his cousin's car during a traffic stop, and the use of the Taser was justified. But Renea Mitchell calls her son's death "murder."

"They are here to protect us. There's no reason for what they've done," she said. "There's no reason, no excuse."

Warren police had pulled over Mitchell's cousin, Chris Davis, for having an expired license plate when Mitchell "jumped out and started running," Davis said.

"I told him not to, but he was real scared," Davis told CNN. "He was petrified. He hopped out the car and started running."

Police followed Mitchell into an abandoned house about two blocks away. Officers tried to apprehend him once he was inside, but he resisted, Warren Police Commissioner William Dwyer told CNN.

"They ordered him several times not to resist, and he continued to resist," Dwyer said. "They had no alternative to use what they felt at the time was non-lethal force."

The commissioner called Mitchell's death "a tragedy," but said police who watch someone run from them "can only assume he committed a crime or is wanted for a crime." The officers had been trained to use Tasers on people resisting arrest, "so there was nothing wrong with using that Taser," Dwyer said.

The 5-foot-2, 110-pound Mitchell died after being shot once with a Taser, which delivers a 50,000-volt electric charge. The Macomb County medical examiner's office says an autopsy report has not yet been completed. The Warren Police Department's internal affairs office ruled the use of the Taser was justified, and the officers involved in his death are back on the job. But Mitchell's family is suing the department and the city, arguing there was "no articulable reason" to use the Taser on him.

Police consider the Taser a non-lethal weapon, and Dwyer said it has been "a very useful tool." But the human rights group Amnesty International has documented more than 350 cases in which people have died after being shocked with Tasers.

Mitchell's death was at least the third involving people shot with Tasers in 2009, and the second in Michigan. A 15-year-old in Bay City, about 115 miles north of Detroit, died in March; a Virginia teen died in January.

Other high-profile cases have raised questions about the use of the devices. In October 2007, a Polish immigrant who spoke no English was Tasered and died after a scuffle with police at the airport in Vancouver, British Columbia.

In January 2008, a man died after being shocked nine times with one of the devices during his arrest on a cocaine possession charge. The Winnfield, Louisiana, police officer who arrested him was fired and indicted on manslaughter charges. He has pleaded not guilty and faces trial in July.

While police defend the use of the devices, Warren Mayor James Fouts has called for a review of how they should be used.

"Obviously we have a legal situation, so I'm not able to give too strong opinion either way," Fouts told CNN. But he added, "We need to re-evaulate and look very closely at what it is that we're currently doing."

But Renea Mitchell said she wants to see the police face a courtroom over her son's death.

"When you're living in this world, people die every day," his mother said. "God is my father, and I trust that Robert is safe. Robert is safe, I have no doubt in my mind. I just want justice now."

'No excuse' for teen's Taser death, mother says - CNN.com

[Noop]

Time to reconsider the use of the taser as a non-lethal weapon? Perhaps lower the voltage.

[Lathum]

Do we really need to have this debate again?

[DaddyTorgo]

boooooooooooooooo

[Noop]

There was a debate about tasers?

[Tekneek]

Impossible. If it is non-lethal force, then it never causes death.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Noop

There was a debate about tasers?

c'mon Noop, do you really not see where this is going to go?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

c'mon Noop, do you really not see where this is going to go?

give Noop some credit - he's changing his stripes

[Subby]

Hey I have an idea! Let's make a post about every controversial fucking thing out there so this shitbag site can continue to devolve into the mind-numbing netherworld of dimwitted over-opiniated doofustry that it so readily seems to embrace.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Lathum

c'mon Noop, do you really not see where this is going to go?

You mean this turning into a cop lovers versus cop haters debate? Or perhaps someone will accuse me for race baiting?

I posted the article to generate discussion on whether tasers should be reclassified as a lethal weapon.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

give Noop some credit - he's changing his stripes

I don't get it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Subby

Hey I have an idea! Let's make a post about every controversial fucking thing out there so this shitbag site can continue to devolve into the mind-numbing netherworld of dimwitted over-opiniated doofustry that it so readily seems to embrace.

awww...there's our favorite subby!!!

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Subby

Hey I have an idea! Let's make a post about every controversial fucking thing out there so this shitbag site can continue to devolve into the mind-numbing netherworld of dimwitted over-opiniated doofustry that it so readily seems to embrace.

This is the off-topic forum. How else will we be able to pass the day if we can not argue with each other endlessly.

[molson]

It's impossible to know the number of lives that tasers have saved. There's plenty of incidents where deadly force would have been justified but a taser was utilized instead. Not to mention the number of people that tasers have helped apprehend, that otherwise would have been able to kill and maim and plunder another day.

I think the focus should be on a "safer" taser. Non-lethal weapons are a great thing in law enforcement. There's always going to be risks, but there can always be technology advancements that limit the risk.

But police do have to remember that they're still a weapon and use them accordingly. Just because certain bullets might be rubber/beanbags, for example, that doesn't mean you should shoot them randomly into a crowd.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Noop

Time to reconsider the use of the taser as a non-lethal weapon?

No, but thanks for asking.

[Maple Leafs]

Admittedly, this puts a dent in my whole "We should be tasing abortion doctors" theory.

[Izulde]

For some reason it seems like a fairly high number of these death by Taser cases involve mentally handicapped or ill individuals.

[MikeVic]

Can they shotgun people with those beanbag things?

[molson]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Can they shotgun people with those beanbag things?

Some do, but those can be very dangerous also. They also don't necessarily incapacitate someone.

[MikeVic]

Ok, I just wanted to bring it up because I find those things cool.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Ok, I just wanted to bring it up because I find those things cool.

[Lathum]

OK, I'll bite.

Maybe the kid shouldn't have run?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, I'll bite.

Maybe the kid shouldn't have run?

Bingo!

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, I'll bite.

Maybe the kid shouldn't have run?

Did you not read the article? He was mentally disabled. Jeez.

[Fidatelo]

Dola,

What would be ideal would be to arm police with things like Spider-Man's web shooters. They just web up suspects and everyone lives happily ever after.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

I'm not saying the cops weren't "justified", but blaming it on a kid who isn't able to reason like normal people is fucked up. You do this in all of these threads.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Did you not read the article? He was mentally disabled. Jeez.

He was 'learning disabled'... that could mean almost anything. Dyslexic kids are 'learning disabled' but I'd still expect them to know not to run from cops.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Dola,

What would be ideal would be to arm police with things like Spider-Man's web shooters. They just web up suspects and everyone lives happily ever after.

That would be awesome until someone is allergic to the web itself or claims to have a morbid fear of spiders and all things related to them.

[Schmidty]

My dola is the official one, Fidatelo!!!

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

He was 'learning disabled'... that could mean almost anything. Dyslexic kids are 'learning disabled' but I'd still expect them to know not to run from cops.

Good lord. If he was just dyslexic, I'm sure there wouldn't be nearly as much of an uproar.

Anyway, you stone-casters do what you wanna do. It's like no one is ever innocent in these threads other than the cops. Of course, they are innocent in this case, but I think the kid is too. It's just a sad, messed up situation.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

My dola is the official one, Fidatelo!!!

lol!

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

He was 'learning disabled'... that could mean almost anything. Dyslexic kids are 'learning disabled' but I'd still expect them to know not to run from cops.

Knowing it and applying it in an extremely stressful situation are not the same. Yes, he shouldn't have run, pretty much everyone here knows that. But, he very likely cannot be held to the same standard of common sense/reasonable behavior as most people. I say this as the parent of a child who in no way, shape, or form, will ever be able to have the kind of common sense that would prevent him from getting into this kind of situation. It is unfortunate that this happened. I'm not sure it's really anyone's fault. About all we can do is look closely at it and see what can be done to prevent it from happening again without compromising the policemen's ability to do their job safely and completely.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Good lord. If he was just dyslexic, I'm sure there wouldn't be nearly as much of an uproar.

Anyway, you stone-casters do what you wanna do. It's like no one is ever innocent in these threads other than the cops. Of course, they are innocent in this case, but I think the kid is too. It's just a sad, messed up situation.

Are you sure? I mean, it's not like the media to sensationalize things in order to get headlines, right?

Personally, I think we know far too little about the whole thing to pass any real judgement. That's what we have juries and inquiries for.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Good lord. If he was just dyslexic, I'm sure there wouldn't be nearly as much of an uproar.

If people want to create an uproar, any old excuse will do.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Personally, I think we know far too little about the whole thing to pass any real judgement. That's what we have juries and inquiries for.

I agree and that's why the "he shouldn't have run" thing that Lathum said and you agreed with is just as bad as saying "those pigs committed murder".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Did you not read the article? He was mentally disabled. Jeez.

Which has jack shit to do with whether the use of the taser was appropriate. That's based on his actions when in contact with police, period.

All they've got to work with is a subject fleeing the scene for no apparent reason, running into an abandoned house and then resisting arrest.

[Kodos]

If people want to create an uproar, any old excuse will do.

WHERE ARE THE COLORED CLEATS IN MADDEN?!?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Knowing it and applying it in an extremely stressful situation are not the same. Yes, he shouldn't have run, pretty much everyone here knows that. But, he very likely cannot be held to the same standard of common sense/reasonable behavior as most people. I say this as the parent of a child who in no way, shape, or form, will ever be able to have the kind of common sense that would prevent him from getting into this kind of situation. It is unfortunate that this happened. I'm not sure it's really anyone's fault. About all we can do is look closely at it and see what can be done to prevent it from happening again without compromising the policemen's ability to do their job safely and completely.

As I mentioned in my response to Schmidty, I just don't think we have enough info here to even really discuss it. The spectrum of 'learning disabilities' is so large that we can't grasp from that description alone whether that played a role in this or not. People without learning disabilities are stupid enough to run from cops all the time. I think the inclusion of it as a 'fact' in the story is simply to get headlines, not to really inform the reader of anything necessarily pertinent.

[Noop]

5'2 110 lbs? I don't think any cop would have any problems handling him.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I agree and that's why the "he shouldn't have run" thing that Lathum said and you agreed with is just as bad as saying "those pigs committed murder".

I don't think so. "He shouldn't have run" is a fact. It's why the cops did what they did. It's exactly why the "those pigs committed murder" people would be wrong in this case. It's very relevant.

Now, why he ran is a different story, but it doesn't mean it isn't the catalyst of this situation.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

As I mentioned in my response to Schmidty, I just don't think we have enough info here to even really discuss it. The spectrum of 'learning disabilities' is so large that we can't grasp from that description alone whether that played a role in this or not. People without learning disabilities are stupid enough to run from cops all the time. I think the inclusion of it as a 'fact' in the story is simply to get headlines, not to really inform the reader of anything necessarily pertinent.

Fair enough. I think there was enough in the article to indicate that he was clearly reacting in a way that was inconsistent with someone who had the reasoning ability to remain calm in a non-threatening situation. The article mentioned his abilities were compromised in a way that would be consistent with that. For me, this is enough to assume that this isn't just a made up cover-story. For you, I guess you'll have to wait on someone you trust to come and tell you the same thing.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which has jack shit to do with whether the use of the taser was appropriate. That's based on his actions when in contact with police, period.

Have you read my other posts Jon? I'm not an idiot. The cops were justified from what I read, especially in a shit-hole like that part of Detroit. I just think that automatically condemning the kid is wrong.

As I said, I think the blame game isn't an issue here. It's just a screwed up tragedy.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

It's just a screwed up tragedy.

This.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Fair enough. I think there was enough in the article to indicate that he was clearly reacting in a way that was inconsistent with someone who had the reasoning ability to remain calm in a non-threatening situation. The article mentioned his abilities were compromised in a way that would be consistent with that. For me, this is enough to assume that this isn't just a made up cover-story. For you, I guess you'll have to wait on someone you trust to come and tell you the same thing.

I guess it's like this: any time I've been 'in the know' on something that ends up hitting the news, there are large issues with the way it is represented. Either facts are left out, distorted, whatever, but the media in this day and age seem to be more about reporting a story than reporting events. A kid dying from a taser is an event, but a mentally challenged kid makes it a story. The fact that the writer makes no further mention of it makes me question how relevant it is to the event.

So basically, yes, I need more trustworthy info on this one

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I don't think so. "He shouldn't have run" is a fact. It's why the cops did what they did. It's exactly why the "those pigs committed murder" people would be wrong in this case. It's very relevant.

Now, why he ran is a different story, but it doesn't mean it isn't the catalyst of this situation.

You know very well what tone the "he shouldn't have run" comment was in. It wasn't a reasoned argument, it was a "that fucking idiot deserved what he got", as it always is by certain people in these threads. Not saying that's you at all though.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I guess it's like this: any time I've been 'in the know' on something that ends up hitting the news, there are large issues with the way it is represented. Either facts are left out, distorted, whatever, but the media in this day and age seem to be more about reporting a story than reporting events. A kid dying from a taser is an event, but a mentally challenged kid makes it a story. The fact that the writer makes no further mention of it makes me question how relevant it is to the event.

So basically, yes, I need more trustworthy info on this one

I understand what you are saying, here. Media sensationalism is annoying, but maybe it is a fault of mine that my default position is not assuming it is the case.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

As I said, I think the blame game isn't an issue here. It's just a screwed up tragedy.

But that's not going to stop the usual protesters nor the lawsuit from the family. There were two adults in that vehicle (well one 37 y/o adult & another 19 y/o) who did nothing to prevent the incident.

Now maybe they could have & maybe they couldn't have, I'm even inclined to guess it happened so fast they couldn't. But afaic the family has more culpability than police in this instance (based on what we know so far). If they aren't driving a car with an expired tag then there's no traffic stop in the first place.

This is nothing more than the usual attempt to blame police for doing their jobs and it's half past tired.

[DaddyTorgo]

i wonder why the other kid in the car with him didn't grab him to hold him there until the cops could approach, or yell something to the cops or anything. seems like a missed opportunity to avoid the outcome.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You know very well what tone the "he shouldn't have run" comment was in. It wasn't a reasoned argument, it was a "that fucking idiot deserved what he got", as it always is by certain people in these threads. Not saying that's you at all though.

I don't think he 'deserved what he got', so if I implied that by agreeing with someone whom I didn't realise implied it, then I'd like to rescind my agreement.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You know very well what tone the "he shouldn't have run" comment was in. It wasn't a reasoned argument, it was a "that fucking idiot deserved what he got", as it always is by certain people in these threads. Not saying that's you at all though.

That's idiotic and who are you to put words in my mouth?

In no means do I think the kid " got what he deserved" but in a shithole like that police need to assume the worst. What course of action should they have taken?

The bottom line is police carry tasers for situations exactly like this one, if they aren't going to use them in a situation like this one then they shouldn't be carrying them.

As far as the kid being mentally disabled if his disability was that severe maybe he shouldn't have been riding around unsupervised?