My turn at one of those "Share your wisdom, FOFC" threads. aka How many kids number?

[Suburban Rhythm]

I am not on often much lately. I used to do alot of my reading/posting at work, but now blocked, including the osatwork site.

So I come looking for, not necessarily an exact answer, but thoughts, experiences, general wisdom from FOFC

Background

Mrs SR and I are both 39. Married coming up on 15 years. Together about 20.

Two two kids we love, Lucy is 10, Sam is 8. Generally good, healthy kids.

When pregnant with Sam, we were pretty well decided we were done with kids. 1 girl, 1 boy, they don't make any other kind! Mrs SR was prepared to have her tubes ties after his birth. Due to complications, and his C section birth, they would not immediately perform the procedure "just in case"

Fast forward. About 2 years ago, she started dropping hints about "maybe a 3rd". I nodded and thought "you're nuts!" and hoped it would pass.

Fast forward again to now. She's very adamant about wanting a 3rd...and the biological clock is ticking.

I, obviously, have a multitude of concerns.

- Money. While I know you are never prepared truly, we are comfortable now. Carrying some debt I'd like to pay down, but our circumstances aren't dire.

We make things work between my accounting job I despise. She works strictly weekends as a nurse. Not ideal, we don't see each other often, sometimes not at all, on weekends, between her 12 hour shifts and kids activities.

Were in a 3BR house in a nice area. We've got one older car and one with about 5 years on it.

So while no immediate drastic expenses, long term a newer car, maybe a move to a bigger house would have to be considered

- Relationship. We're in an...better than OK spot. We went through the usual ups and downs all marriages do. The same stressors we all encounter.

Grading on a 1-10, 1 being we'd stab each other if we thought we'd get away with it, and 10 being we hold hands and skip through the house together, we're at a strong 7, maybe an 8.

In 2010, I lost my job, before getting my current position 3months later. She worked full time. It was tough on everyone, including the kids, adjusting to new roles. At our lowest point, I'll say we were a 3 on the above scale. Things were tense for a few years. We worked through it, but not a fun couple years

-Health. Mrs SR suffers from depression. She's on meds, sees a therapist a few times a year. She knows her limits, and is proactive in trying to avoid situations that can exacerbate her symptoms.

For example, with the help of coffee, I can go weeks on 5-6 hours of sleep a night. She needs her 8 hours, minimum, to function.

So...that's a quick summary. And many of the factors I point to in discussions. She, rather, is singularly fixated on this yet unconceived child she "needs" and feels "incomplete" without.

In a way, we're both being selfish. And I think it's OK to be sometimes. But in this case, it's not a situation that can be easily comprimised.

What say ye, FOFC? Any stories etc are appreciated.

[Kodos]

Just as a hit-and-run reply: Not sure what 3 kids can give you that 2 kids can't.

[albionmoonlight]

Mrs. A and I are at two kids. Have decided to stay with 2, though had we started earlier, we would have liked three.

One piece of insight I have is to think of what your kids might want/need. I have a friend who is one of three. Her parents have been in poor health for years. She says that she is glad that she has more than one sibling because taking care of her parents has been stressful, and having two people to share that burden with instead of one or none has been nice.

In your case, there will be ~10 year age gap between them. So I don't know if that same sibling bonding thing would happen there. Having another also kind of cramps your style going forward. Just when your older two are going off to college and you might start transitioning into taking longer trips with your wife and/or going on more adult-type trips with your kids, you will have this 10-year-old with you, kind of keeping you in the "parents with young kids" place.

Either way, good luck. Tough position to be in.

[Chief Rum]

If your boy isn't the next Lemieux, you need to have another kid to have another shot (of course, kidding SR, hope it all works out).

[Butter]

I think the health thing is a major concern, or should be.

My wife and I had 2 boys and she had health complications with both. Different types with each. She sort of wanted a 3rd, but sort of didn't. By the time my boys were 7 and 5, I decided to get fixed because I was afraid a third child might be too much physically for her to handle.

What we had going for us was that the decision to stop at two was a mutual decision. She definitely looks back on it and still has strong baby urges from time to time... but from my point of view, that's easy enough because I'm fixed. There is no chance of a third child (except adoption, but I don't think either of us are ready to handle that).

But if you don't agree, you don't agree. I would have a real hard time being super-pressured into a third child if I were you. If I were in that position, I am not sure what I would do except reiterate that I'm not on board with this, and might not ever be. This is not a thing like a major purchase that you just give up on and let her have it so that she's happy, because this isn't a material thing... it's a human being.

Good luck.

[panerd]

One thing to keep in mind as well. The wife and I were trying for kid #2 to go with our boy and ended up with kids #2/#3. We are happy with it but just remember if one more kid is your limit you can get more. (No medicine involved or family history either)

[Suburban Rhythm]

I am trying to be sympathetic, because I can never fully comprehend what she feels during both a depressive episode or the longing for another child. I am not being dismissive of the feelings (though she may argue differently) .

Under the current situation, a vasectomy is out of the question. I'm trying to be as supportive in this as possible, and unilaterally deciding to get snipped would be no fairer than an "oops, I'm pregnant!" from her side.

I guess my major stumbling block is it's an emotion vs logic battle.

I'll bring things up that, on the surface, she generally agrees with. I saw imagine if this were flipped, and I told her I was just going to get her pregnant, it's what I wanted. She'll agree that, in a hypothetical situation, that's a horrible thing to do. But can't separate her emotions from our situation.

I've never said absolutely no. If we have a 3rd, I'll love it no differently than my two now.

But anything short of an immediate YES = a no to her

Back during our struggling times, I twice attended her quarterly therapy sessions. I suggested I go to the next one, in April. Even to have a 3rd party to hear what's being said and maybe be able to provide some direction.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by panerd

One thing to keep in mind as well. The wife and I were trying for kid #2 to go with our boy and ended up with kids #2/#3. We are happy with it but just remember if one more kid is your limit you can get more. (No medicine involved or family history either)

This is one of my points I bring up that I can't get a valid answer to.

Not twins, but if we have #3 in a year...what's stopping another "void" in 2 years after that.

The best I get is "oh I wouldn't want another!". But 6 years ago, she didn't want a 3rd.

[stevew]

Don't do it. I barely wanted one, and got the 2nd essentially hoisted onto me. You guys are like 9 years from being done with kid type stuff. I feel like that's far too close to the end zone to reset it.

Especially when it seems like your arrows are pointing sideways.

[Marmel]

Im 41, wife is 38. We have a almost 7, almost 5 and almost 2 year old (all birthdays coming up in next 8-10 weeks).
I thought I was done after the first 2. My wife wanted another, and we had discussed it briefly, nothing too serious. We disagreed but tabled the discussion. I figured I would keep tabling it and it would become a dead issue.

Like you guys, I work days, she works weekend nights as an RN. We don't need child care.

The third kid was a suprise but it took me less than 5 minutes after finding out that I wanted it and I am so glad we did. 2 to 3 is really not much more work. Your kids are a little older, so you might need to buy some new furniture etc. The older kids help out so much and love playing and taking care of the "baby". It adds a whole new dynamic to the house and everyone is much happier.

Our almost 5 year old is going through some of the middle child things, so if you do go for a 3rd, pay extra special attention to the middle one. He/she will need it.

We turned our 3 bedroom house into a 4 bedroom, but right now the 2 boys (the 2 and 5 year old) share a room and the girl has her own. They all like it that way. I was finally able to own bunk beds! I always wanted one when I was growing up but I was an only child.

The biggest thing was getting a new car to accomodate 3 car seats. You might avoid that with a 10 year old, IDK. I caved, bought a Honda Odyssey. A minivan??? Turns out, I actually really enjoy the van. So much room! I'm over the cool car thing at my age.

So anyway, my situation is pretty similar to yours, right down to the wife's job, and our third came as a surprise, but I'm really happier for it.

I'll admit it is tough for me to watch all 3 of them at once. It is getting easier now that the youngest is almost 2. I can handle the two bigger ones easily and the young one easily, but put all 3 together and my wife at work, and I struggled at times, especially the first year. The two groups have such different needs. Do you have family nearby? Sometimes just dropping the two older ones at their grandparents for a night is a huge relief, once a month or so.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

-Health. Mrs SR suffers from depression. She's on meds, sees a therapist a few times a year. She knows her limits, and is proactive in trying to avoid situations that can exacerbate her symptoms.

I think this would be the piece that would concern me the most.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I think the health thing is a major concern, or should be.

My wife and I had 2 boys and she had health complications with both. Different types with each. She sort of wanted a 3rd, but sort of didn't. By the time my boys were 7 and 5, I decided to get fixed because I was afraid a third child might be too much physically for her to handle.

What we had going for us was that the decision to stop at two was a mutual decision. She definitely looks back on it and still has strong baby urges from time to time... but from my point of view, that's easy enough because I'm fixed. There is no chance of a third child (except adoption, but I don't think either of us are ready to handle that).


Good luck.

This is nearly an exact echo of my situation with my wife, she had major complications with both our daughters and was told after the second one to not have any more children because it would be very risky to her life. We had the same kind of discussion between kids 1 & 2 (there is a 6.5 year gap between them) where I was concerned about the money, logistics and selfishly fine with one. I will say that when it happened I personally carried some resentment for losing some of the autonomy we had when our oldest got out of toddler stage and it took me some time to re-adjust back to taking care of an infant/toddler. So that is one thing to think about. OTOH, having the older kids to help out is immensely helpful when having a younger one with that large of a gap and you also tend to avoid a lot of the obvious sibling rivalry issues because of it. I think getting a 3rd party to talk through all of that with both of you is probably a good idea

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I caved, bought a Honda Odyssey. A minivan??? Turns out, I actually really enjoy the van. So much room! I'm over the cool car thing at my age.

There is something to be a said for a vehicle into which you can pack Rhode Island if necessary. Makes road trips much less stressful.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I have a younger sister who is 10 years younger than I am. We have a fantastic relationship, but we aren't as close as either of us would like because I was away at college while she was 8-16.

She was an "oops" (my dad had already been snipped), but she's pretty awesome.

Edit: as a more real piece of information, if you do end up going with a third child, be careful she doesn't get spoiled accidentally. We provided so much for her, and she's sort of lacking in the self-sufficiency and reaponsibility departments now that she's a grown woman.

[Breeze]

My wife and I have 3 kids, we were only planning on 2, but we started late and when we tried for our second we ended up with twins.

Oh, by the way - My wife was was 39 when we decided to have our second...not trying to scare you but just so you know, the odds of multiple births goes up significantly the older the woman is.

[revrew]

There's no way a person could ever predict whether having a child would be a "good thing" or not. There's so many variables, so many unforseeable futures, that to boil it down to the sum of what can be known now and what others have experienced is like making a decision with 1% of the whole picture. And it's a big decision.

The best advice I could offer, then, is to suggest you explore whatever your understanding of faith, God or supreme being may be. Do you and your wife have something bigger than yourselves, bigger than your finite mind, you can rely upon? Do you trust in anything - be it deity, morality or primary principle? Then trust in that to guide you. Because just weighing pros and cons, you'll never have enough info to make a decision.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Under the current situation, a vasectomy is out of the question. I'm trying to be as supportive in this as possible, and unilaterally deciding to get snipped would be no fairer than an "oops, I'm pregnant!" from her side.

I guess I meant to say that we decided I should get a vasectomy. I thought it would be much less obtrusive than a hysterectomy/tubal ligation and better than paying for birth control pills indefinitely. It was a joint decision, but ultimately had to be up to me, because it was my junk they were messing with.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Thanks for all the responses so far!

Interesting dynamic. My older sister 10, me 8 when my younger sister was born. So we have a blueprint in front of us, though that was 30 years ago, and times have changed.

Just to add some more info...

Both pregnancies, Mrs SR was pretty sick during the first trimester.

During those times, as well as throughout both kids being very young, I took on alot. Meaning probably 75-80% of the household duties.

Like I mentioned earlier, I can survive on 5 hours of sleep. So it became commonplace that the kids were in bed at 8, her 9, and I'd be up til 11:30 washing dishes or doing laundry.

I did it out of love, and necessity. But I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a bit of resentment.

What started as doing what was necessary, soon became the expectation I continue to more work at home in less time.

I've had more than a handful of mom's at Lucy's dance classes or Sam's hockey practices inquire to other parents if I was a single father because I "have things so under control". Which is a nice compliment, but also kind of a jab to her ego that she was getting out-momed in her own house.

So I sometimes feel the 3rd is an opportunity to prove her worthiness (not that I've ever questioned it).

[ColtCrazy]

I'll weigh in with my 3rd one situation. At the time we had a son that was 5 and a daughter (with vision disability) that was 3. "Breaking the tie" had been discussed , but nothing major until we decided to try. We ended up with twins which completely changed the dynamic of our marriage and family. First, they were in the NIC-U for 3 weeks which was a stressful time. Then, getting them on the right schedule was murder. Luckily, we had both just gotten to summer break and took shifts. For a few weeks I was literally up all night and would sleep during the day while she was up at during day. The stress of two of us balancing four kids took its toll and we grew distant for a period. I eventually went through my own severe case of depression (which apparently was a hereditary family secret my parents failed to tell me until after I had a complete break down). Our marriage was on the brink until we both decided we had something worth fighting for. Fast forward and we are getting better by the day. We aren't where we want to be, but there's a commitment to make this work. On your scale, I'd say we are a solid 7 when 2 years ago we were a 2. The twins are now 5 and things are now getting easier with them. By know means were they the direct cause of my depression, but merely one of the cogs in a cycle that nearly tore us apart. I've never regretted having them and love them as much as the older ones.
I think being outnumbered does make a difference as a parent as there are times you get pulled in different directions. Just be sure you are prepared for another one, especially as it sounds like you have hit a good patch of life.

[Suburban Rhythm]

A big part of my apprehension is, when your marriage has these valleys, adding stress isn't going to make it easier. She seems to kind of be in denial that things were ever that dire. Revisionist history.

There's no tactful way to express it, but I feel like saying "what is in this for me?" I really have no incentive, except for what I am sure her answer would be, of "making me happy!"

When I sit and think about it, what bothers me the most isn't the wanting a 3rd. It's the selfishness involved. I can understand some. I admit I partially do not want the 3rd for selfish reasons

Her tunnel vision is the most frustrating.

[Logan]

I would say those are all good reasons not to have another child. What do you think will happen if you keep on saying you don't think it's a good idea? Will she resent you for it for a long time, despite you having two great kids? Or do you think she'll realize after a period of time that the reasons you gave are good and it was a smart decision?

[CU Tiger]

Are you 100% sure she isnt pregnant now?
Given the mention of past depression issues and the need for an immediate yes, its worth considering.

Other than that, I cant offer much advice beyond Good Luck!

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

-Health. Mrs SR suffers from depression. She's on meds, sees a therapist a few times a year. She knows her limits, and is proactive in trying to avoid situations that can exacerbate her symptoms.

For example, with the help of coffee, I can go weeks on 5-6 hours of sleep a night. She needs her 8 hours, minimum, to function.

No.



It doesn't sound as if the rearing/parenting would be anywhere near the 50/50 duties either, compounded by the person pushing for the pregnancy will be doing less. Changing diapers at 32 is not the same at 42. Another thing to think about is that in 10 years, hopefully you will be sending Sam off to college and you will both be 49 years old. A new baby would be but 8-9 years old then.

All of that assumes that the pregnancy and birthing are under good normal circumstances. Not to say that you don't have a multiple birth (twins) or a special needs child (autistic/downs/etc)

This sounds very hormonal with the clock ticking. Having a 3rd child to feel 'complete' or help with depression is a big red flag. Unfortunately, its more common than most people would think. There are so many things you can do in your daily lives and with your existing children to make life just as wonderful as it would be to have a 3rd child.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

A big part of my apprehension is, when your marriage has these valleys, adding stress isn't going to make it easier. She seems to kind of be in denial that things were ever that dire. Revisionist history.

There's no tactful way to express it, but I feel like saying "what is in this for me?" I really have no incentive, except for what I am sure her answer would be, of "making me happy!"

When I sit and think about it, what bothers me the most isn't the wanting a 3rd. It's the selfishness involved. I can understand some. I admit I partially do not want the 3rd for selfish reasons

Her tunnel vision is the most frustrating.

Fairly certain my dad could make this same claim, and he never took on the added responsibility of chores around the house, so you're doing ok here in my book

In fairness, he knows how happy my little sister has made my mom, and he loves her to pieces, so it's not as if there was nothing in it for him. But I'm sure he wasn't too thrilled about the idea of another 18 years before he was out of the woods, and the costs contained therein.

[stevew]

Obvious familiarize yourself with her schedule and properly observe the monthly "no fly" dates while you figure out what to do.

I'm so glad we did the tubal during my wife's second c-section.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by stevew

Obvious familiarize yourself with her schedule and properly observe the monthly "no fly" dates while you figure out what to do.

Suburban Rhythm Method?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I wouldn't take a billion dollars for the one I have ... and I wouldn't give you two cents for another one.

In a million years I'm unlikely to ever really grasp the active desire for multiples, and in a situation such as yours (stage in life, scenarios, etc) I'd have grave concerns that there were mental/emotional health reasons behind this sudden desire of hers.

Maybe I'm just not the guy to ask.

[Lathum]

My 2 cents.

We have 2, a boy almost 5 and a girl almost 2. I will be 40 in April and my wife is 39. When we began we wanted 3, but between 1 and 2 she lost 3 and we had some struggles getting the pregnancy to take.

Once we were in the clear with #2 we decided that would be it. Then when my daughter was about 9 months my wife got the itch for one more. I held strong with not wanting one.

Financially we are great, and have an outstanding relationship with no conflict and minimal stress, it wasn't about that. For me it was the big concern about starting that clock over again, and at almost 40 I just didn't want to. I want my kids out of my house when I am 60 so I can enjoy myself with my wife. There is nothing wrong with being selfish for that stage of your life.

My other big concern was like many others, my wifes age and multiples. Along with tempting fate. This is in no way a slight to anyone with special needs kids, but I have 2 healthy kids and didn't want to tempt fate and end up with a special needs kid that would require attention its whole life.

At first my wife pushed, then about 6 months later when my wife realized how close we are to being out of the diapers/ sleepless nights/ paying for daycare phase she realized I was right.

[stevew]

There was a family at our school that had (I think) a daughter who was 5-6 years older than me and a son who was 3-4 years older.

They also had a set of triplets who were freshmen when I was a senior. Pretty much the worst "whoops baby" type situation I could imagine.

[tarcone]

A friend once told me "You play man to man with 2, but have to go to a zone with 3"

We have 2. And we had a miscarriage on #3. That screwed with my wifes head big time. I got snipped and she got her uterus removed a few years later due to female issues. We decided, after the miscarriage, 2 was the perfect number. If your kids get involved in activities and with your work schedules, life will certainly get a lot more hectic.

My girls are 13 and 14, and I love them to death. But in 5 years, a whole new world opens up.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

in a situation such as yours (stage in life, scenarios, etc) I'd have grave concerns that there were mental/emotional health reasons behind this sudden desire of hers.

Maybe I'm just not the guy to ask.

Nah, I think this is a situation where Jon's bluntness is something I'd appreciate if I were the one asking for thoughts. I might soften it by saying we're only hearing one perspective here, blah blah, but otherwise, yup.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My 2 cents.

We have 2, a boy almost 5 and a girl almost 2. I will be 40 in April and my wife is 39. When we began we wanted 3, but between 1 and 2 she lost 3 and we had some struggles getting the pregnancy to take.

Once we were in the clear with #2 we decided that would be it. Then when my daughter was about 9 months my wife got the itch for one more. I held strong with not wanting one.

Financially we are great, and have an outstanding relationship with no conflict and minimal stress, it wasn't about that. For me it was the big concern about starting that clock over again, and at almost 40 I just didn't want to. I want my kids out of my house when I am 60 so I can enjoy myself with my wife. There is nothing wrong with being selfish for that stage of your life.

My other big concern was like many others, my wifes age and multiples. Along with tempting fate. This is in no way a slight to anyone with special needs kids, but I have 2 healthy kids and didn't want to tempt fate and end up with a special needs kid that would require attention its whole life.

At first my wife pushed, then about 6 months later when my wife realized how close we are to being out of the diapers/ sleepless nights/ paying for daycare phase she realized I was right.

I'm having alot of trouble with that last line.

I fully understand what you mean by "right". I'm trying at least be open to her feelings, though, and this question may not have a right/wrong answer. Just an agreed upon conclusion.

We talked a little last night after the kids were in bed. She was receptive to listening when I brought up talking about it...until she realized it wasn't what she wanted to hear. Withdrawing from the conversation is her defense mechanism.

I pointed out not being open to discussion certainly isn't going to sway me to her side. I said if she prefers these take place with a 3rd party, either her therapist, a counselor, whoever, I'm fine with that, too.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I'm having alot of trouble with that last line.

.

I guess what I mean by "right" is I was acting on logic and she was acting on emotion. IMO you should never make life altering decisions based on emotion.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I guess what I mean by "right" is I was acting on logic and she was acting on emotion. IMO you should never make life altering decisions based on emotion.

Yeah I understand, didn't mean it as a slight against you.

Glad things worked out for two, and hoping whatever the decision is, we're as content.

[grdawg]

I'm in similar situation. I'm 40/wife 39. We have 2 kids, boy (7), girl (5 in a few weeks). My wife always wanted 3 kids, I wanted 2 at most. She was a product of 3, me 2. I knew having a girl was a big deal for her so if #2 had been a boy, we'd have gone for #3 right away. Since it wasn't, I felt like we were done. She always felt like we'd have the 3rd. We were living in a 2 br condo and it was not easy with 2 young kids so I was not even going to consider it until we moved. We moved 2 years ago and have plenty of room, but getting acclimated to a new city, making friends that had similar aged kids and my wife wanting to focus on finding a job in a new field the 1st year put the talk off. She has always said that having 3 kids is what is in her heart similar to the OP's wife (must be a woman thing because no number of kids was ever in my heart). I have been very concerned about #3 taking time/money away from 1 & 2 and being in my 40s with a newborn. Also, the age gap was a big concern for her, although I didn't think it was that big a deal. I think my wife is always going to regret not having 3, but at this point I don't think it will happen.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Yeah I understand, didn't mean it as a slight against you.

Glad things worked out for two, and hoping whatever the decision is, we're as content.

I hope you are also.

My guess is most people who decided to have an additional kid, be it 2,3,4, etc..., wonder why they even debated it once the kid is born and you can't imagine it not being a part of your life.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

We talked a little last night after the kids were in bed. She was receptive to listening when I brought up talking about it...until she realized it wasn't what she wanted to hear. Withdrawing from the conversation is her defense mechanism.

I pointed out not being open to discussion certainly isn't going to sway me to her side. I said if she prefers these take place with a 3rd party, either her therapist, a counselor, whoever, I'm fine with that, too.

I'm not sure that I can help answer the original question about whether or not to have a third child, but in a (very strange) way the ultimate decision about having another child or not is not what's important here. The process by which you arrive at that decision - whatever it may be - is what's critical.

I'm not sure what the right process would be for the two of you, but once you agree on a process it must be permitted to take you both to its conclusion. Perhaps spend some time discussing the considerations you each feel are important (values? finances? career implications? family support? physical and mental health impact? vision for your future in 10 years? what would you regret the most on your deathbed?) and see where that goes.

And seeking input with figuring out this process is never a bad idea, particularly if there seems to be an impasse or resentment is becoming apparent. A visit with your wife's therapist might be helpful, but given the pre-existing relationship there I'd advise against it. Instead, a marital counselor might be a better choice. That person could serve as a consultant to help the two of you to work out a mutually acceptable process by which the decision is made.

Good luck to both of you. I can offer no more hopeful wish than this: may you both someday (far, far in the future) find yourselves on your deathbeds with no regrets!

[Lathum]

I see a business opportunity here. Being an arbitrator for couples considering having children.

It could be a gold mine!

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by tarcone

A friend once told me "You play man to man with 2, but have to go to a zone with 3"

I had a co-worker who said that as he was going out the door for his wife to deliver #3. When I saw him a few weeks later he told me that "zone doesn't work".

We always planned for 2 as our max, so when we got to 2 we knew we were done.

I guess my advice is to remember the reasons why you, too, initially settled on 2. Are those judgments no longer valid? Have things changed?