Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

[Boiler569]

While my base is fisticuffs, I love me some wrastlin and ground and pound.

UFC 2 has done a very good job of improving this aspect of MMA; I can finally GnP people to death !!!

But...I feel as if it's a bit too difficult to take people down. Specifically, taking them down from *standing* position (as opposed to takedowns from the clinch)

Part of this --- as has been discussed --- is the (somewhat) faulty strike intercept system. Now, I LOVE this new system compared to what we had!!!...but it needs a bit of help in the collision detection department.

That's already been talked about a lot (although feel free to comment) --- what I REALLY think would help make takedowns from standing more effective (but not OP):

1) Stamina should have a much greater impact on ability to land (or stop) a takedown. If two fighters with about equal stats go at it --- attacker with 100% stam and defender with 25% stam --- should be almost IMPOSSIBLE to stop the takedown! Even with impeccable timing. Right now...seems to be very little link between stamina levels and ability to stop a takedown

2) Need a way to catch kicks! I know there's a mechanic in the game for this but it's....not done very well IMO. If someone is throwing lazy body kicks in a predictable manner, I should have no problem grabbing it and taking them down. Maybe I need to work at this some more in UFC 2....but just doesn't seem like it's a very legit defensive tactic in this game....

3) More cage interaction from standing takedowns! Let's say your opponent's back is to the cage but they are about 3 feet from the cage itself (they're cornered, but not touching cage) --- you shoot for a big power double --- you definitely end up smashing against the cage, which should (for the most part ) help you get that takedown. Although perhaps you don't get a POWER SLAM; just a 'regular' takedown, as part of a trade-off. If you fail the takedown, maybe you end up in over/under; rather than a sort of glitchy sprawl which defies laws of physics when you are so close to the cage

On the flip side, if you are defending in that case, sure you are pissed you were tackled against the cage and then taken down...but you might be able to use the cage to pop back up quickly --- I know we have cage walking in this game but it's veryyyy slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...and there is a reversal or two off the cage, but that's already while you're on your back. I'm thinking more of a 'scramble against the cage' IMMEDIATELY after you are taken down. Almost like a reversal? Difficult to pull off but possible (but if you fail...you will be gassed bigtime)


Just a few thoughts. I really think the stamina point, in particular, needs to be looked at. If someone is totally gassed and you have full stamina, should be all but an auto-takedown unless you have absolutely horrid takedown stats, and their TDD is maxed out

[scyth223]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I only ever just take people down from the clinch now.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I only ever just take people down from the clinch now.

yea me too which is a problem ;(

Plus...they are going to nerf the clinch takedown a bit in the next patch...so gonna almost impossible to take anyone down. Not that I don't agree with the need to patch the clinch takedown!

(Animation and timing of grapple meter don't match up making it too easy to get a takedown...which is cheesy...)

But once they do that, good luck getting takedowns ;( I'm a boxer and I still want to buff takedowns lol

[Notorious8]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

Takedowns need a bit more love. But not too much as it would be a gamebreaker too.

Low stamina is easy to get taken down.

In the state the game is now you can still block a takedown on low stamina.

That rule should apply only for takedown and not for the clinch as clinch spamming is still used very often by people

Imo


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[segap]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

For me a big issue is the denial window on shooting for takedowns...

Like people are able to throw punches freely knowing that they will
a) likely intercept the takedown
b) even if they don't there is still i gigantic denial window on the takedowns.


if clinch takedowns are nerfed to the same level as shooting in takedowns then I'm not really sure how you're gonna get someone to the ground. From the clinch I find I need to have full GA to even be safe enough to try the takedown against competent people

[scyth223]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

For me a big issue is the denial window on shooting for takedowns...

Like people are able to throw punches freely knowing that they will
a) likely intercept the takedown
b) even if they don't there is still i gigantic denial window on the takedowns.


if clinch takedowns are nerfed to the same level as shooting in takedowns then I'm not really sure how you're gonna get someone to the ground. From the clinch I find I need to have full GA to even be safe enough to try the takedown against competent people

Stand and bang bro.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

Stand and bang bro.

lol

well I'm glad others are worried about the state of the takedown; especially standing takedown!

I definitely agree we don't need a HUGE swing...I'd guess the 'overall' denial window needs to be shortened about 10%...and an exponential penalty for low stamina needs to be implemented (or if it exists, needs to be increased by a good measure) --- i.e. very little (or no) stamina penalty if it's a guy with 100% stamina vs. 90% stamina...but a MASSIVE penalty for 100% stamina vs. 25% or 10% stamina, etc.

[acetheredcomet]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I feel that if you are shooting in and are basically ducking the punch/kick, it should not get intercepted, however if you are starting the shooting in animation, you should get intercepted.


If the opponent is already in the denial posture, it shouldn't matter what the stamina is due to the fact they are in the "sprawl ready" position.


I feel the power takedowns need a slight buff in damage, especially to stamina when you land them (maybe it is because I am not using certain perks) but it should have a bigger impact than a regular takedown.


I want to see if you deny a takedown, and push the opponent, they stay on the ground. Too many times online, I deny a takedown and they immediately go for another.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I feel that if you are shooting in and are basically ducking the punch/kick, it should not get intercepted, however if you are starting the shooting in animation, you should get intercepted.


If the opponent is already in the denial posture, it shouldn't matter what the stamina is due to the fact they are in the "sprawl ready" position.


I feel the power takedowns need a slight buff in damage, especially to stamina when you land them (maybe it is because I am not using certain perks) but it should have a bigger impact than a regular takedown.


I want to see if you deny a takedown, and push the opponent, they stay on the ground. Too many times online, I deny a takedown and they immediately go for another.

that can be annoying sometimes haha

you deny someone SO QUICKLY you push them off, rather than sprawl (when you would have preferred to sprawl)

not sure how they could change that though, unless it was the usual takedown denial plus a modifier (?) which would ensure you get a sprawl?

Somewhat similar to takedown reversal I guess

[Ant from HellCounty]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

The problem with Takedowns is that there's no struggle between the two forces when you shoot a single leg or a power double.

You can't fight Takedowns which makes the game more Arcade-like.

In real life if I shoot a power double, that's not the end of the struggle, the struggle to get you down and your struggle to shrug me off or trying to get your hips back as far as possible to sprawl.

This is what made the Undisputed series more realistic in the wrestling aspect. Because in real life when you shoot a single or a double, you have to drive and turn your opponent in a struggling attempt to get them down.

Undisputed: The struggle that gave you control of your takedown was simply by spinning your right analog stick faster than the other person can spin theirs. Also attributes, stamina, opponent in mid strike and timing all played a major role in aiding you or going against you in the struggle. You can also use the left analog stick to steer your takedown attempt in whatever direction you choose. Also driving your opponent into the cage is also available. Options and more Options.

EA UFC: Shoot the takedown, no struggle, watch the animation play out, defender either sprawls it or they don't. EA needs to give the players FULL CONTROL as much as possible at all times as possible. Why in 3 game attempts (EA MMA, EA UFC, EA UFC 2) we still can't drive a takedown into the cage?

[Pax_Vision]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

Ground and Pound is my bread and butter. Takedowns are hard to land. Usually, I have to stand and wait for my OP to throw a kick. Once I get them down, its usually game over...

[norml]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I think the denials are too easy.

If you are still in a striking animation when a fighters hands touch your legs you shouldn't be able to deny.

If there is a large stamina advantage for the fighter attempting a TD it should be very hard to deny and almost impossible if there is a large stat difference.

Weak strikes should not stop takedowns period.Only knees and Perfectly timed uppercuts. I tried a few matchtes last night and only used strikes to stop TD's. A quick body shot when you see it start does the trick almost all the time.

In the higher divisions it really isn't worth it to use anything but a Boxer unless you have earned or purchased enough cards to even out the Standup and Athleticism stats. I kept getting matched up with guys with max Standup, Chin, and Body in div 4-5. Their punches litterally go right through my Wrestlers block if it even comes up it time and their punches are so quick they only need to deny TD's from clinch.

Needless to say, Wrestler deleted. Boxer with high ground stats created.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

The problem with Takedowns is that there's no struggle between the two forces when you shoot a single leg or a power double.

You can't fight Takedowns which makes the game more Arcade-like.

In real life if I shoot a power double, that's not the end of the struggle, the struggle to get you down and your struggle to shrug me off or trying to get your hips back as far as possible to sprawl.

This is what made the Undisputed series more realistic in the wrestling aspect. Because in real life when you shoot a single or a double, you have to drive and turn your opponent in a struggling attempt to get them down.

Undisputed: The struggle that gave you control of your takedown was simply by spinning your right analog stick faster than the other person can spin theirs. Also attributes, stamina, opponent in mid strike and timing all played a major role in aiding you or going against you in the struggle. You can also use the left analog stick to steer your takedown attempt in whatever direction you choose. Also driving your opponent into the cage is also available. Options and more Options.

EA UFC: Shoot the takedown, no struggle, watch the animation play out, defender either sprawls it or they don't. EA needs to give the players FULL CONTROL as much as possible at all times as possible. Why in 3 game attempts (EA MMA, EA UFC, EA UFC 2) we still can't drive a takedown into the cage?

I definitely agree that the struggle for a TD isn't reflected at all in this game!

I'll have to say though...I *HATED* the 'shining' of the undisputed series...always thought that was super lame lol

We need some sort of middleground I think, where there is a struggle, but it's not just who can spin the stick as fast as possible lol, need more skill/nuance/timing than that IMO

[segap]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I definitely agree that the struggle for a TD isn't reflected at all in this game!

I'll have to say though...I *HATED* the 'shining' of the undisputed series...always thought that was super lame lol

We need some sort of middleground I think, where there is a struggle, but it's not just who can spin the stick as fast as possible lol, need more skill/nuance/timing than that IMO

agreed I'd burn through the skin on my hand from shinning


But would the "finish the fight" recovery mechanic be a good compromise ? Gives the struggle of the takedown , doesn't break controllers , doesn't break skin

Plus it's already implemented in game so less effort for dev

[SisterRay]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I agree, takedowns are severely underpowered in this game. At least they are patching the ridiculous stamina drain to sprawl in the next patch.

One thing that hasn't been mention is the awful range of the takedowns, it's like the fighters thinking "hey, look at that shiny nickel on the mat, I think I'll pick it up!" Not a desperate attempt to take it to the ground like your life depended on it or get wrecked standing and knocked unconscious lol