Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

Let's revisit this after the patch. TD difficulty could be tweaked live at any time, but it could have a huge impact on gameplay balance so it's something to be cautious with.

There are already some minor takedown buffs coming, although not direct.

Getting sprawled on and getting struck out of a TD won't be as punishing.

Don't forget there are several things you can stack to make the denial window smaller.

Stamina, opponents back against the cage, and mid strike will max everything out with even a modest amount of each.

Shooting after landing big damage works well when stacked with either stamina or back against the cage.

I definitely agree that we want to take a very cautious approach to this lol

But as this thread shows, almost no one who fights at a high level online shoots for takedowns outside of the clinch.

The main reason for this (besides the grapple meter filling before animation!), is that it is easier to stack up the GA needed to help score a takedown from clinch, rather than standing. Plus of course, strike intercept doesn't work as well in the clinch.

Oh, and leg damage.

Is anyone investing in leg kicks with the intent of exploiting takedowns later in the fight?

I wonder if this is a strategy that's been overlooked or if it's not tuned quite aggressively enough to be effective.

I remember reading this awhile back, and I started to increase knees to opponent's legs in the clinch as a way to try and help my GA. I probably can't comment on how well tuned this is though b/c I rarely throw leg kicks outside of the clinch. Would definitely be interested in hearing what others think about this mechanic

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I don't have too much of a problem with standard shoots being easy to deny, although I do think the shoot range really needs to increase.

What I have a problem with is that there are no real counter takedowns. Right now the only free takedown you can get is off of a spinning kick, but there should be so many more.

Whiff a high kick? Free takedown
Duck under a hook? Free takedown
People have 0 stamina? Free takedown
People are rocked? Free takedown

UFC Undisputed 3 was excellent at these. I also miss "shoot clinch takedowns" like BJ Penn had in Undisputed 3, where you don't immediately go to the ground but instead end up in the clinch

[Kasel]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I hope for 2 things, more range, and a more powerful double leg takedown animation. Generally all the animations in the game are sloppy and soft feeling, I want bull rush takedowns for specific wrestling based fighters but that's probably too much to ask for in an update (except the takedown range thing, I bet we'll see a buff there)

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I don't have too much of a problem with standard shoots being easy to deny, although I do think the shoot range really needs to increase.

What I have a problem with is that there are no real counter takedowns. Right now the only free takedown you can get is off of a spinning kick, but there should be so many more.

Whiff a high kick? Free takedown
Duck under a hook? Free takedown
People have 0 stamina? Free takedown
People are rocked? Free takedown

UFC Undisputed 3 was excellent at these. I also miss "shoot clinch takedowns" like BJ Penn had in Undisputed 3, where you don't immediately go to the ground but instead end up in the clinch

Great point. There need to be more 'free' takedowns (or damn near close to free)

Plus better ways to get a takedown for good timing...catching a leg or body kick for example

I had a guy throw about 80 leg kicks at me last night. If only there was a way i could catch that leg and go into a single leg TD ....

I hope for 2 things, more range, and a more powerful double leg takedown animation. Generally all the animations in the game are sloppy and soft feeling, I want bull rush takedowns for specific wrestling based fighters but that's probably too much to ask for in an update (except the takedown range thing, I bet we'll see a buff there)

Yup I agree

Also wish that takedowns (in particular power double legs) that end up against the fence had a different dynamic. i.e. maybe he 'stuffs' takedown but you end up against fence in double underhooks. So it wasn't a total waste

[Haz____]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

If someone throws a leg kick at you, and you shoot a takedown on them while 1 of their legs is off the ground, you should have a very high probability of landing that takedown. No idea why this doesn't have any effect in the game. That alone would change things for the better dramatically.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

If someone throws a leg kick at you, and you shoot a takedown on them while 1 of their legs is off the ground, you should have a very high probability of landing that takedown. No idea why this doesn't have any effect in the game. That alone would change things for the better dramatically.

yup for sure

part of it is a hit detection issue....instead of catching that leg in this game; you'll catch it IN THE FACE instead (figuratively if not literally)

and part of it...is that it's just not a mechanic, or it definitely doesn't seem like one.

I have a feeling the takedown defense penalty for throwing a punch is the same as throwing a kick. Meaning throwing a kick doesn't put you at more risk for a takedown as compared to a punch.

Which is not good.

[NewSkiLLZZ]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

No idea what people mean by takedowns aren't easy. If you don't have anyone who can strike I can kinda see how. But if you have at least a decent striker, they're pretty easy. Especially now since there isn't more of a penalty on a denied takedown after the patch.

I usually wait for someone to miss a kick then I have total priority over them. Also are you people going for modified takedowns? That's another thing, if you just hold L2/LT you can get them pretty easily after a miss.

[norml]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

No idea what people mean by takedowns aren't easy. If you don't have anyone who can strike I can kinda see how. But if you have at least a decent striker, they're pretty easy. Especially now since there isn't more of a penalty on a denied takedown after the patch.

I usually wait for someone to miss a kick then I have total priority over them. Also are you people going for modified takedowns? That's another thing, if you just hold L2/LT you can get them pretty easily after a miss.

I don't know what divisions you are playing in, but skilled players can deny takedowns in the situation you describe with ease.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

No idea what people mean by takedowns aren't easy. If you don't have anyone who can strike I can kinda see how. But if you have at least a decent striker, they're pretty easy. Especially now since there isn't more of a penalty on a denied takedown after the patch.

I usually wait for someone to miss a kick then I have total priority over them. Also are you people going for modified takedowns? That's another thing, if you just hold L2/LT you can get them pretty easily after a miss.

good point on the modifier

Most times I do unmodified takedowns but sometimes I do modified when I shouldn't have

Even that said, though, I still believe (standing) takedowns are way too tough to pull off. Even with identical stats (i.e. this Live Event Competition)

Two major changes that would help IMO:

* Tone down the strike intercept a bit; a power Double should be able to get through a lazy jab to the body anyday. Other strikes should HINDER the takedown perhaps, but not stop it in its tracks. Uppercuts on the other hand should definitely stop all TD attemps. Part of this has to do with improving collision detection, though, which probably isn't a patchable item :/

* Stamina needs to play a bigger role. Assuming we both have even stats...if you have less than 20% stamina and I have 100% stamina....should be an auto-takedown, or close enough. Stamina needs to be a much bigger deal in general; but specifically, for takedowns.

[NewSkiLLZZ]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I don't know what divisions you are playing in, but skilled players can deny takedowns in the situation you describe with ease.

I mean I guess it's because I've been playing UT lately. But I face my fair share of guys since I'm Top 3 in WBW in the world (I am not stating to be that good or anything). But I'm facing people with nearly maxed out CAF while my guy is only 87. An if they are missing kicks I can take them down with the correct timing.

[Bigg Cee]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

If someone throws a leg kick at you, and you shoot a takedown on them while 1 of their legs is off the ground, you should have a very high probability of landing that takedown. No idea why this doesn't have any effect in the game. That alone would change things for the better dramatically.

I was hoping this was gunna be in the patch. UFC 1 after all the patches had this pretty good when you threw leg kicks, also there were still ppl able to block, but now I feel every fighter in the game has good TD defense.

I hate having to always kick legs or clinch for a TD.

[neyney00]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

Standing takedowns need a buff for sure. Then make it a little easier to defend takedowns in single collar to balance out. Then take the current denial window for single collar and make it that window for double under. Then takedowns are perfect.

[norml]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I mean I guess it's because I've been playing UT lately. But I face my fair share of guys since I'm Top 3 in WBW in the world (I am not stating to be that good or anything). But I'm facing people with nearly maxed out CAF while my guy is only 87. An if they are missing kicks I can take them down with the correct timing.

You're just really good at the game.

[SisterRay]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

I'm having success mixing up sc clinch with takedown attempts, usually they fear the the clinch then that's when I go in for the TD, if they are against the cage that's even better due to GA

[WarMMA]

Re: Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

If someone throws a leg kick at you, and you shoot a takedown on them while 1 of their legs is off the ground, you should have a very high probability of landing that takedown. No idea why this doesn't have any effect in the game. That alone would change things for the better dramatically.

You'll just get kicked in the face for sure. The hit detection is off too. Sometimes you can time a shot well and you know you shot right after they swung and you still get hit AFTER the guy swings and misses. With the shooting td's they need to go under strikes and not be able to get hit by any and everything someone is throwing. If a guy is timing his shots well he should never be hit after the person swings and misses. Also like you said, shooting in on someone that is in the middle of swinging a big strike or kicking should almost always result in an auto td, much like that td that happens when you shoot on a guy doing a spinning strike. Takedowns definitely need a little work done.