CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

[SUGATA]

I think Parries are OK now in EA UFC 2:
- hard input that that makes you opened w/block for a bit after failed Parry
- tight window (6-11 frames) which depends on stamina and require skill and reaction to succeed
- catch kick on low opponent' stamina
- you can not spam Parries, max 3 in a row: next Parry has twice shorter Parry window
- you can Parry in health event state which allow you to survive but require skill
- in EA UFC 1 Parry was unavailable after receiving Hit, in UFC 2 we can Parry but Parry window is much shorter and it's input conflicts w Blockibg - and this is very right decision, because now we can to Parry in mid of Combo
- successful parry on appropriate conditions of the opponent (Attacker has Stamina <60% on max Endurance/80% on min Endurance OR Leg health <25% when performing Kick to Head or Body )ending in Catch kick > (if Parry was clicked) release opponent's Kick into stagger stun with Counter window property; (if Parry was holded 1 sec) ending in Full Guard ground position.


The current CATCH KICK mechanics in EA UFC 2:
Catching kick conditions: [Attacker has Stamina <60% on max Endurance/80% on min Endurance OR Leg health <25% when performing Kick to Head or Body] perform successful Parry to Catch kick.
[When Attacker has Stamina <60% on max Endurance/80% on min Endurance OR Leg health <25% when performing Kick to Head or Body] use more Parry – to Catch kick > to Counter Strike OR to DOM Ground position (Guard or Stand-Down).
- Stamina <60% on max Endurance/80% on min Endurance: even if on min Endurance in the 5th round - i can always throw ONE Kick (not in Combo) at FULL Stamina and not have Kick caught.
- Leg health <25%: may one leg, no matter which leg.
When attacker is in conditions for Catching kick (CK):
VS High kick:
No vs Jumping or Full spinning Kicks (will be the same evade)
After cough the leg:
- no any other possible actions for both, except 2 for Catcher: TD or Let go of the leg.
- no any Defense (no Grapple block), so TD will be guaranteed.
1. [If Parry input was held 1 sec OR clicked and just Catch kick animation begins press and hold R1 or R2] CK into TD to DOM Guard (for Head kick); CK into TD to DOM Stand-Down (for Body kick).
2. [If Parry input was clicked] Let go of the leg > [after Let go of the leg] perform any Strike (the opponent will be in stun with CW).
VS Leg kick:
no CK vs Low kick (always will be the same Evade).






> But what needs to improve & evolve for Parry:

ONLY when the opponent is in Catching kick conditions (<60% stamina, etc):

1) CATCH PUNCH: like we have it in UFC UD, successful Parry on low stamina (50% stamina or less) opponent. Catching his hand into Clinch (Parry was holded 1 sec) or Stagger for strike (Parry was clicked)!
Catching punch conditions: [Attacker has Stamina <60% on max Endurance/80% on min Endurance OR Punch health <25% when performing Punch to Head or Body]
"Catch punch" - this is just a name for Counter grapple strike.There are no Catch strike position when i holding his hand in a mid state.

Successful Parry opponent's punch is ending in:
1. (was held) in Clinch - common way to clinch in boxing
2. (tap) in opponent's stagger state with Counter window property (dmg from followed strike will be increased)

Effects from Catch punch:
- It will help to solve strike slammers
- it will allow to survive in Health event and to get into Clinch; this is impossible to get into Clinch now in health event because of Finish the fight rapid strikes which are crushing all your Clinch attempts.

I name it CATCH punch only because we have Catch kick name.
This is not a real CATCHING (holding hand) punch and then going into the clinch.
It is more a _DEFLECTION_ of the opponent's hand and going to Clinch.
May be I was needed to name it "Parry punch into Clinch".
And as I said this is very common thing irl.
And this happened in MMA too.
So we need to add this if we want to get SIM game > and of curse it must to be balanced with +/- to not become abused and too common (how to do it i wrote above)
And b/c of required catching conditions it will not be often.




And make that different style fighters' parry leads to different type Clinch position via "Catch punch"/deflect:
- MuayThai into MT clinch
- Judokas into Over Under/DU
etc
Based on each fighter's attributes, perks and BALANCE.
This will increase personality between fighters and diverse the gameplay!


2) PARRY vs Leg kick AND BODY KICK - ending in:
Catching kick conditions: [Attacker has Stamina <60% on max Endurance/80% on min Endurance OR Leg health <25% when performing Kick to Head or Body]
- (if Parry was held 1 sec) Catching kick with ability to guaranteed TD. Even leg kick can be catched (by lowering and moving fwd your knee to slide up his leg):



- (if parry was clicked) CHECK KICK (even vs Body kick not deflect or evade), which is dealing dmg to his leg and ALSO leaving him in stagger state w CW property.

_______________________________________________

Update 18.03.2017:

1) Current Clinch has many issues, more details in my thread mentioned above.
I am sure Clinch will be more balanced in UFC 3.

2) Getting into Clinch via Catch punch is a way for short reach fighters to close the distance and take their own game.
Long reach fighters poking is much worse than Clinch and restricts fighters choice and diversity in online.

3) For Honor turtle problem w Parry is because there are no counter for counter (yomi 3rd level).
Possible counter to Catch punch is extra dmg (counter window) for getting hit during Parry attempt. This will bring balance to Parry - high risk/high reward.

4) Kick check details are just a description of already presented mechanics in UFC2. We have it now, and I don't see catching kicks often btw, which means it is balanced.
Catch kicks is a tool to go on Ground for wrestlers and bjj. And no one complain about it, why? B/c ground is balanced.
But we don't have tool to go into Clinch for Judokas now, so Judokas are the most nerfed fighters and this is wrong.
Cure the cause not the results!

5) Countering Punch via deflect into Clinch - is one of the most common way to get into Clinch IRL in boxing and any other fighting or self defense style. We want SIM, not arcade. Catch punch into Clinch is all about SIM.


Dudes, I am always for constructive criticism b/c it helps to evolve the idea.
But please post your arguments.
1. Clinch is OP and unbalanced in UFC2 so no more getting into Clinch moves for UFC3.... I think better to make Clinch more balanced in UFC3.
2. Parry is not ok now after all patches in UFC2. Please tell me why do you think so?
3. I don't know even one who complain about ability to Catch punch into Clinch in UFC UD, no one... and as many said the Stand up Striking is that one thing which is better in UD.



WAYS TO DEAL WITH CATCH PUNCH in UFC 3:
1) Check your stamina all the time - play safer w/o too long combos or with too powerful strikes which leaves you low on stamina so catchable
Or vice versa go to crucial damage but with higher risk to be catched into clinch.

2) Check your hands health - your hands are too damaged from strikes' blocking, dont rush to begin your striking, take a brief to recover.

3) Anticipate opponent's parry level and counter his parry by another level strike to deal increased damage - the same as we have now with countering side steps or sways by incoming strikes and dealing increased dmg b/c of momentum.

4) Check opponent's stamina - he is low on stamina = his parry window is much shorter, so more difficult to perform successful parry for him.

5) Use Feints (check my NEW Feints mechanics thread) with boosted (speed up) followed strike - to bait him to Parry and just he mistimed it counter strike him with increased damage bonus.

6) If devs will implement some Momentum scenarious for the catched opponent just after the catch - this will add a depth to Clinch also (for ex, momentum to Break clinch w increased GA will force the parry man to be ready to deny it, this is opportunity to miss the deny for him and so gives you an undeniable transition for 2 sec).

7) Jumping or full spinning punches are not catchable (will be the same evade as w full stamina).

[Dave_S]

Is catching strikes something common in MMA? Only time I remembered seeing it is Rousey vs Holm, and Rousey wasn't able to keep Holly in the clinch.

I would be concerned about more clinch entries, but I think clinch is currently flawed bad. It shouldn't take so long to break out of the clinch when your not against cage.

I think you'll shouldn't be able to parry if you been pressing block for over 500 milliseconds or so. When I parry I press block and punch buttons at the same time instead of camping on high block.

[SUGATA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

Is catching strikes something common in MMA? Only time I remembered seeing it is Rousey vs Holm, and Rousey wasn't able to keep Holly in the clinch. I would be concerned about more clinch entries, but I think clinch is currently flawed bad. It shouldn't take so long to break out of the clinch when your not against cage. I think you'll shouldn't be able to parry if you been pressing block for over 500 milliseconds or so. When I parry I press block and punch buttons at the same time instead of camping on high block.

There are no Catch strike position.

This is the name for Counter grapple strike.

Successful Parry opponent's punch is ending in:

1) (was holded) in Clinch - common way to clinch in boxing


2) (tap) in opponent's stagger state with Counter window property.

[Dave_S]

I think a parry giving you clinch is terrible idea. clinch is already terrible at times.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

I think a parry giving you clinch is terrible idea. clinch is already terrible at times.

Agreed. Horrible idea imo.

[SUGATA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

I think a parry giving you clinch is terrible idea. clinch is already terrible at times.

ALL UFC Undisputed fans disagree with you.
Even more - in UD you can catch punch into clinch ANY time, but in my idea for EA UFC 3 you can ONLY when opponent is low on stamina or his hand is damaged (look on catch punch conditions), and Parry are much harder in EA UFC than in UD.


You said Clinch is terrible... in EA UFC 2.
But we are talking about EA UFC 3, and i also hope Clinch will be fixed:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-fix-them.html

Catch punch like i described in 1st post:
- is realistic and common in boxing
- is important to solve strike spammers
- is balanced to prevent its abuse
- is giving a skillful tool to survive for pro player.

Post your counter arguments please?

[fballturkey]

I was a huge UD fan and I hated the catch punch mechanic. It looked goofy and happened way too often. If you're going to do it it needs to be a separate input from parry (because I don't always want to catch a punch, which was my main complaint in UD about it) and it needs to require better timing than a partry currently does.

[SUGATA]

Quote: Originally Posted by fballturkey

I was a huge UD fan and I hated the catch punch mechanic. It looked goofy and happened way too often. If you're going to do it it needs to be a separate input from parry (because I don't always want to catch a punch, which was my main complaint in UD about it) and it needs to require better timing than a partry currently does.

1) I am a fan of UFC UD, i played it from 2009 and have all 3 games.
I have many friends and all them are fans of UD, and all them are asking about anti body punch spam tool - Counter grapple strike is this one (CATCH PUNCH and Catch kick).

Now i will ask one simple question: How often do you see Catch kick in your online EA UFC 2 experience?
....

........ very rare.

Why? because it requires so many factors to happen.

The same will be with Catch punch. It will be a pro tool.


2) You want separate input. why?
Have you read my 1st post?
(click) parry - for deflect
(hold) parry - for Catch punch

100% the same as we already have now in EA UFC 2 with Catch kick

Better parry timing? what do you mean? Parry has very tight timing now! Based on Stamina advnatage this is 6 - 15 frames, usually near 10 frames = 1/6 second... you want larger or shorter window? I am sure the parry window size now is excellent.