CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

[SUGATA]

Re: CATCH PUNCH for Parries for EA UFC 3

This is the right response. Sad to see a GC complain about something like this. I can see taking some things out, but not a whole position. I don't see how the clinch is any different than the ground. If someone is good at denying, that is actually skill.

The most frustrating moment about the Clinch is that it uses THE SAME Dynamic grappling mechanics (DGM) as Ground game, but uses ONLY 50% of DGM elements. I think this is because of the lack of time in developing UFC 2:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-fix-them.html

It needs to be fixed in UFC 3.
UFC 2 was an evolution of the Ground game. UFC 3 must to be an evolution of Stand up and Clinch to succeed.

[fishingtime]

Re: CATCH PUNCH for Parries for EA UFC 3

I'm hoping they use movement in the clinch more this next game. Maybe the strike catch could be a move. That should help. Give it to the top grapplers. Something to help differentiate the styles.

[WarMMA]

Re: CATCH PUNCH for Parries for EA UFC 3

Than go play undisputed. So people thought they weren't balanced, but they were because fish says so?

To be honest I'm tired of hearing how great the old UFC games were, people have been bringing it up since first ea UFC game.

If the old games were so great then just play those. This is EA UFC.

People just like to eat member berries.

Thing is sadly until they surpass that game, you will continue to hear about them. I'm hoping to god that they finally surpass UD3 with this next game. As far as the topic goes with catching strikes into clinch like UD3, I don't think including that would be a good idea imo.

[SUGATA]

Re: CATCH PUNCH for Parries for EA UFC 3

Thing is sadly until they surpass that game, you will continue to hear about them. I'm hoping to god that they finally surpass UD3 with this next game. As far as the topic goes with catching strikes into clinch like UD3, I don't think including that would be a good idea imo.

Why you dont want to get and play in MORE REALISTIC, more simulation EA UFC 3, which contain true tolife balanced Clinch and Clinch entries by "Catch punch into Clinch"?
Why you want to play fabricated arcadish MMA game? I am sure, you dont want.



And btw make that different style fighters' parry leads to different type Clinch position via "Catch punch"/deflect:
- MuayThai into MT clinch
- Judokas into Over Under/DU
etc
Based on each fighter's attributes, perks and BALANCE.
This will increase personality between fighters and diverse the gameplay!

Sambo: deflect punch into grab/clunch and throw/TD:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LnPOtq-XyaY" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/h2E2OyxXpl8" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dwEHPTrLbCs" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PWm2qAsnKgc" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[MartialMind]

Re: CATCH PUNCH for Parries for EA UFC 3

I agree with everyone here that isn't a fan of the "Punch catch into clinch" idea.

Yes this mechanic was a thing in UD3 and i wasn't a fan of it, but it wasn't much of an issue because players simply didn't use it often enough and when they did, i was able to use strike cancels to make them whiff and punish them.

Your idea also raises a few questions that surrounds realism.

Yes in real life, it is very possible to catch a punch into a clinch, we've seen that a few times, but with your idea, will it be possible to catch every single type of punch? Jabs, straights, hooks, uppercuts, overhands? What about superman punches, spinning back fists? What about lunging punches? Can all these punches be caught?

Second question: Should every fighter be able to do this? Should any Featherweight be able to catch a straight left by Conor?

The thing is, we just don't see this in MMA often enough to warrant adding it to the game. I remember Ronda doing it against Holly and Fabricio doing it against Cain, but i can't think of any other instances and i've been thinking. Even if i could find 10 instances, that's not nearly enough to warrant it being added. It's just not something MMA fighters do.



I would love a more natural way to end up in the clinch, but catching punches Aikido style in my opinion is not the way.

Another part of this is the A.I.

Knowing EA, the A.I on the highest difficulty will simply become a punch catching god. I am almost certain of this. Give EA a mechanic like this and the A.I will torment you with it. You won't be able to land a thing. They will just catch every punch into the clinch and that will set offline play back tremendously.

I'm not a fan of it.

[SUGATA]

Re: CATCH PUNCH for Parries for EA UFC 3

I agree with everyone here that isn't a fan of the "Punch catch into clinch" idea.

Yes this mechanic was a thing in UD3 and i wasn't a fan of it, but it wasn't much of an issue because players simply didn't use it often enough and when they did, i was able to use strike cancels to make them whiff and punish them.

Your idea also raises a few questions that surrounds realism.

Yes in real life, it is very possible to catch a punch into a clinch, we've seen that a few times, but with your idea, will it be possible to catch every single type of punch? Jabs, straights, hooks, uppercuts, overhands? What about superman punches, spinning back fists? What about lunging punches? Can all these punches be caught?
.

1) I uses often Counter grapple strike (catch punch/kick) with judoka Akiyama in UFC UD. Many my friends used it too.

Solution to this counter grapple - getting hit during it deals massive additional dmg = high risk/high reward

2) Now in UFC 2 Jumping kicks like Flying knee and Full spinning kicks ARE NOT catchable (the same evade will be as when no catching kick conditions - full stamina)
The answer to yr 1st question - the same as we have w kicks now: Jumping punches and full spinning L1 punches are not catchable (only the same evade).

Second question: Should every fighter be able to do this? Should any Featherweight be able to catch a straight left by Conor?

Now every fighter can Catch kick.
I think the same for Catch punch (every fighter can), but as i said above into different types of Clinches based on their fighting style.

The thing is, we just don't see this in MMA often enough to warrant adding it to the game. I remember Ronda doing it against Holly and Fabricio doing it against Cain, but i can't think of any other instances and i've been thinking. Even if i could find 10 instances, that's not nearly enough to warrant it being added. It's just not something MMA fighters do.

I think this is common enough to be implemented: sway/deflect opponent strike into clinch is a common way to clinch in boxing and MT for example; in MT also possible with additional knee strike.

Knowing EA, the A.I on the highest difficulty will simply become a punch catching god. I am almost certain of this. Give EA a mechanic like this and the A.I will torment you with it. You won't be able to land a thing. They will just catch every punch into the clinch and that will set offline play back tremendously.

AI in UFC 2 is a deny god also on ground... so, we need to remove Dynamic grappling mechanics? of course, no.
Again, search/cure for the reason not for results.

AI is very vulnerable to feints, so based on written above "Ways to solve Catch punches in UFC 3" this will be an excellent weapon for this.

I am sure, Catch punch into clinch - is a must have feature for UFC 3:
- to buff judo
- to solve short vs long reach fighters as one part of the solution
- to prevent mindless spams
- to increase diversity in striking game (use Uncatchable strikes to not to be catched)
- more mindgame and yomi (using feints and mix ups to put the parring opponnt into a trap)
- etc.

[Dave_S]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

sugata, don't take this the wrong way but it's happened so few times. not every idea is great one. for the most part judo isn't so fantastic for mma, just ask Rousey

clinch blows.

[SUGATA]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

sugata, don't take this the wrong way but it's happened so few times. not every idea is great one. for the most part judo isn't so fantastic for mma, just ask Rousey

clinch blows.

Again, I name it CATCH punch only because we have Catch kick name.
This is not a real CATCHING (holding hand) punch as we see on MM' gif.
It is more a _DEFLECTION_ of the opponent's hand and going to Clinch.
May be I was needed to name it "Parry punch into Clinch".
And as I said this is very common thing irl.
And this happened in MMA too.
So we need to add this if we want to get SIM game > and of curse it must to be balanced with +/- to not become abused and too common (how to do it i wrote above)
And b/c of required catching conditions it will not be often.

[KeyTheNotorious2nd]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

Love the idea of catching strikes and catching strikes to get into the clinch , if this does make it into the game I just hope there are no catch spammers lol but love this idea.

Sent from my Coolpad 3622A using Operation Sports mobile app

[fishingtime]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

I guess people forget how much a missed catch will cost you. This wasn't a problem on Undisputed. The risk/reward was there.

[MartialMind]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

Okay there's a language Barrier and sometimes it's difficult to understand exactly what you mean so forgive me if i misunderstand you and please correct me when i misunderstand you.

For the sake of making sure we are on thesame page, what exactly are you referring to? Are you referring to:

- Punch block into clinch and which clinch? Single Collar? Over/under? Double under?
- Punch Catch into clinch and which clinch? Single Collar? Over/Under? or double under?
- Or Punch deflect/Punch parry into the clinch? And also, which clinch?

It is important that we all understand the difference between a block, catch and parry in the martial arts sense of these words. I know it might all seem basic but in EA UFC 2, all sorts of things are referred to as a parry.

Example, in EA UFC 2, if you hold R2 and press X or O when you see a leg kick coming and you completely evade the leg kick, that is referred to as a parry.



But that isn't a parry... That's a complete evade.

Another one is when you hold R1 + Square/Triangle when you see an uppercut coming and the fighter sways it... That is also considered a parry in EA UFC 2.



That also isn't a parry. That's a sway. You swayed the uppercut, you didn't parry it.

For a defensive maneuver to be considered a parry, you need to deflect the punch and by deflection, i'm going with the traditional martial arts definition, the Wing Chung definition... the Pak Sao in Wing Chun. I use Wing Chun because Wing Chun is the Martial Arts that uses the Parry the most, even more than boxing.



Right here Cro Cop executes a perfect Pak Sao... he parries a jab and a straight almost simultaneously and returns fire.



This is what an ACTUAL parry looks like in EA UFC 2



NOW that we have that out of the way, i would like to know EXACTLY which defensive maneuver you want to blend into the clinch?

- Block?
- Catch?
- Pak Sao (Parry/deflect)?

Reading from your latest reply, i'm gonna assume you meant the deflect, the parry, the Pak Sao? You then showed a Gif from UFC 209 showing a punch block into the clinch and that's what is really confusing me.

I mean this wasn't a deflect, this was a BLOCK into the clinch.



So that's what i really wanna know exactly what you're asking for. And can you provide image references to back it up?.

You say what you're asking for happens frequently in MMA.... Please provide references? Could you show at least 5 times where this happens in a LIVE fight?

If you can't find a Gif, at least tell me which fights it happens, i can find the fights and watch it and see if i can see what you're referring to.

Until there's a clear understanding of exactly what you're referring to, there will be confusion.

Either way, i'm still probably not going to be on board with any defensive mechanic that results in an automatic clinch against an offensive attack. I can't imagine how it would be done right, the animation will have to be believable and for it to be believable, they'll need a clear reference, a real life reference and i don't know what possible reference they could use.

Even when you look at UD3 and how they handled it, the animation is 100% unbelievable and unrealistic. Even the block (Or as you say deflect punch) into clinch isn't realistic... No one blocks a punch and then magically sucks the other into the clinch.

It's even worse in UD3 when you look at the Punch catch into the clinch. The straight and overhand catch into the clinch looks terrible... it looks like the punch actually hits them in the face and then somehow you get sucked into the clinch.





I mean these simply don't make any sense. For me to be on board with something like this, i need clear references from real fights and honestly, i don't think they exist, at least in the way you're suggesting.

[fballturkey]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

That pretty much sums it up for me. Punch catches are weird looking and don't reflect something that happens often.

Now if it were easier to grab a clinch on someone after they whiffed on a strike? Sure. But the UD thing was not good.

[SUGATA]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

Okay there's a language Barrier and sometimes it's difficult to understand exactly what you mean so forgive me if i misunderstand you and please correct me when i misunderstand you.

For the sake of making sure we are on thesame page, what exactly are you referring to? Are you referring to:

- Punch block into clinch and which clinch? Single Collar? Over/under? Double under?
- Punch Catch into clinch and which clinch? Single Collar? Over/Under? or double under?
- Or Punch deflect/Punch parry into the clinch? And also, which clinch?

1) When i am requesting for "Catch punch inot clinch by parry" - i am talking about:
ANY POSSIBLE fighting moves which IRL can neglect the opponent's strike and gives a safe window for going into Clinch; these moves launches by Parry command input and can be different based on the context and current fighter fighting style > more diversity.

It can be:
- Block into Clinch (like Age Uke from karate) - similar to those i posted as a gif from UFC UD1-3
or hard brute block like this:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-WC8Lh8k-Ic" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2lVWSWfT_1s" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


- Deflect/parry into Clinch - used often in combat Sambo:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LnPOtq-XyaY" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/32iHMqdnH48" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


- Evade (Sway) into Clinch - combat sambo:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KXQby2-Y0kk" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


- Cross counter strike w Clinch entry (common in MT)

Many examples are in my post above with several videos.

If all that moves are possible and even common in those fighting styles they must to be available in MMA, they are not restricted by rules.




2) Your examples with the last your UD gifs are not correct because UD suffered from animation issues and this is the example. Please check my gif and your similar gif where the incoming strike is not deflected but blocked ... by deflection move - this is an animation bug/issue (both "parries"are the same but contact is different which causes buggy animation on your gif, which you complain as unrealistic when it is just buggy):








P.S. To prevent misunderstanding, do you want me to ask about changing thread's name into "Parry punch into Clinch for EA UFC 3"?

P.P.S. In EA UFC almost every fighter has Cage jumping strikes... How often do you see them in real life MMA? Parrying into clinch is much more common thing irl, and we still dont have it in the game... it is a nonsense.

[fishingtime]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

P.P.S. In EA UFC almost every fighter has Cage jumping strikes... How often do you see them in real life MMA? Parrying into clinch is much more common thing irl, and we still dont have it in the game... it is a nonsense.

<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/l0HeiaW8q9B6tqoHS" width="480" height="415" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/yeahrightpos-pos-l0HeiaW8q9B6tqoHS">via GIPHY</a></p>

[aholbert32]

Re: CATCH PUNCH into Clinch by Parry for EA UFC 3

P.P.S. In EA UFC almost every fighter has Cage jumping strikes... How often do you see them in real life MMA? Parrying into clinch is much more common thing irl, and we still dont have it in the game... it is a nonsense.

Thats true for the first game. Not so much for the 2nd one.