Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

[dalger21]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Lmaoo how can u forget the greatest cheating DH David Ortiz ? he came up as a cheater in the 2003 steroid list.

Actually, some of them didn't take that test in '03 simply to make as many positive tests as possible to get the testing implemented. The theory was that if you didn't take the test, that it was the same as a positive result thus resulting in the extensive testing that is in the game today. Well, that was the theory anyway.

[JHedges2]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Obvious he did them yes. He said he did them. Doing it today? What evidence proves that?

2013 World Series
Boston team average: .169
David Ortiz' average: .688

38 years old? His average has INCREASED every year since he was 33 (in 2009, when he hit .238).

You can't tell me there's NOTHING fishy about that...

[gwshark9]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

I think you need to make room for George Brett...the infamous pine tar bat

[ryanmc564]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

2013 World Series
Boston team average: .169
David Ortiz' average: .688

38 years old? His average has INCREASED every year since he was 33 (in 2009, when he hit .238).

You can't tell me there's NOTHING fishy about that...

PEDs isn't going to help you see or make contact with the ball, give you more pop/power YES but contact NO, it would be one thing if he was hitting a homerun every time Ortiz came up to bat but that wasn't the case. he was a tough out that series.

[Mitchrapp]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

PEDs isn't going to help you see or make contact with the ball, give you more pop/power YES but contact NO, it would be one thing if he was hitting a homerun every time Ortiz came up to bat but that wasn't the case. he was a tough out that series.

It makes you come back the next day and the day after that etc, easier. It makes a 38 year feel like he's younger. It's not just about power..I don't know if he's on anything but I wouldn't be shocked if he was..

[RyanLaFalce]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

If you were to also put players on that had a drug problem, you might as well make the 1986 Mets. lol

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Lmaoo how can u forget the greatest cheating DH David Ortiz ? he came up as a cheater in the 2003 steroid list.

1. He was on an list for a banned substance...not specifically steroids.
2. He isn't even listed on the Wikipedia page for the Mitchell report.
3. Other than the arbitrary list that no one has seen, he hasn't been linked in any way to steroids, etc. to the extent all the other guys I've listed have.
4. I'm a Red Sox fan, and although I wouldn't be surprised if he used, I really don't think it's as "obvious" as people claim (namely Yankee fans who have had the most "cheaters" on their teams in the modern era. I'll have the debate with anyone and stack up the facts versus any of the circumstantial evidence that I've heard over the years. Bottom line is he hasn't been linked to anything since 2003 in the greatest era of testing while all these other guys have failed tests and outright admitted to using.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Can't make a list like this without Ty Cobb. He bet on baseball and sharpened his spikes so fielders were afraid to stay in on a stolen base.

He was considered, but again, as I mentioned earlier, I was having an issue with too much talent and not enough roster spots so I concentrated on the Modern Era.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Obvious he did them yes. He said he did them. Doing it today? What evidence proves that?

Never happened. He never admitted to using anything. In fact, he requested the results of that "list" be public so he could see exactly what was claimed he tested positive for but to this day no one knows. All he has said is at the time he was using OTC supplements that may have caused a positive but we'll never know for sure.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Refresh my memory, what did Nettles do?

Btw, I think it's a great idea. I might do one with a team full of superstitions. Like Boggs with his chicken, I read about a guy years ago who would play in the field with a sandwich in his back pocket..

Good luck.

Nettles got caught using a corked bat...I believe it was actually "corked" with super bouncy balls, lol

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Here is my (admittedly biased) defense of Ortiz as briefly as I can:


What the skeptics say:

He wasn't a power hitter in Minnesota.

Wrong. He was always thought of as a developing power hitter in the minors as David Arias. He increased his HR numbers year after year and hit 18 his final minor league season in 450 ABs.

Taken from the back of the David Arias rookie card:

One of the most feared sluggers in all of minor-league baseball last season, David's 8 intentional walks ranked third among Single-A players. The Twins are looking for his potent bat to eventually inflict damage in the Metrodome.

He would eventually hit 18 HRs in 303 AB's and 20 HR's in 412 ABs in his final 2 seasons in Minnesota.


What about the year he hit 50 HRs?

So what? He hit 50 in his absolute prime. For a power hitter, 50 in your prime isn't anything crazy. Roger Maris hit 61 in 1961, remember?


He played with Manny, they both must have been doing them.

Really? Then why hasn't Ortiz tested positive for ANYTHING and Manny failed multiple tests?


He's 38. He shouldn't be hitting this well.


Why not? There have been numerous examples of players hitting for avg. late in their careers and it's not like he's still hitting 40+ HRs. He's lucky if he hits 30 this year. Doesn't anyone remember a juiced Barry Bonds hitting 40+ HRs at 39?


A couple final points:

- Since his last couple of years in Minnesota, his body type has largely remained the same, and even in his prime, he wasn't muscular...just big.

- Why are all these players failing tests left and right over the years and Ortiz (who is tested constantly) hasn't? You mean to tell me, he just happens to have better drugs and people than a Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez?

- All of the players I listed in the first post have either outright failed drug tests, admitted to using PEDs, had a corked bat break open during game, or have been linked to PEDs by other players who were under legal oath to tell the truth.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

2013 World Series
Boston team average: .169
David Ortiz' average: .688

38 years old? His average has INCREASED every year since he was 33 (in 2009, when he hit .238).

You can't tell me there's NOTHING fishy about that...

He had a wrist injury in 2009. Hitters generally take a while to come back from wrist injuries. That, and he was very out of shape during those years after the second WS title. After 2009, he had a rude awakening and came to spring training (I believe 2011) having lost a ton of weight. Considering that, I don't think it's entirely unbelievable he improved after that.

[BA2929]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

I think you need to make room for George Brett...the infamous pine tar bat

The Royals protested that and the decision was actually overruled/reversed.

MacPhail ruled that Brett had not violated the spirit of the rules nor deliberately "altered [the bat] to improve the distance factor."

So you could only add in George if you're including jerks who get too much sun from playing golf.

[bfindeisen]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

The Royals protested that and the decision was actually overruled/reversed. So you could only add in George if you're including jerks who get too much sun from playing golf.

Hahaha!

I actually did consider George Brett, but I decided not to include him because I was already stocked at 3B pretty heavily and, as you mentioned, I really didn't think it was blatant "cheating". Bottom line, I don't consider George Brett to be a cheat in any way, so he doesn't belong here.

[Mitchrapp]

Re: Ideas for an All-Cheaters Team

Nettles got caught using a corked bat...I believe it was actually "corked" with super bouncy balls, lol

Ah, I do recall that now.