speed or .obp?

[nick_sr]

Re: speed or .obp?

Speed kills. Give me speed all day. If he gets on, its basically an automatic leadoff double with no outs and your big boys coming up. Also, makes any sacrafices much easier. If you have a team that is built on pitching and your lineup isn't that potent, those speedy leadoff guys make a huge difference in scrapping across any runs you can get. Single or a walk, Steal 2nd. Bunt him over to 3rd. Sac fly. 1-0. In fact, I set up my team using this strategy. I make sure my 3 hole hitter is a left handed batter so he can pull the ball to right field on either a ground ball or deep fly out to get my leadoff guy home from 3rd after my 2 hole hitter has bunted him over.

Dont agree with the majority of your post but I will definitely switch my lineup so thst a lefty hit 3rd. Only makes sense #thanks

[cardinalbird5]

Re: speed or .obp?

Dont agree with the majority of your post but I will definitely switch my lineup so thst a lefty hit 3rd. Only makes sense #thanks

I bat lefties 2nd usually, because they don't hit into many DP's and there is normally a huge hole between first and 2nd. Also if the leadoff can get to 2nd then all you have to do is pull the ball to advance them to 3rd with less than 1 out.

If a guy is on 3rd with less than 2 outs...it doesn't really matter if he is left or right handed. It makes more sense to have your 2 hole guy be a left handed hitter or switch hitter.

People forget the lineup order only really matters throughout the order one time. I like to put my best hitters batting 2nd, 1st, or 4th then 3rd so they get more AB's. Statistically the 3rd hole hitter should be your 4th or 5th best hitter, because they get the most AB's with 2 outs and no one on. Your best hitter overall should bat 2nd, while your highest OBP guy should lead off.

With all that said though, lineups can only affect your runs scored by 20 or so runs through a whole season, but that can be enough to win a few more games.

[MLB Bob]

Re: speed or .obp?

Go with OBP..hes only a lead off hitter generally at the very beginning of the game. Not much sense throwing a guy in the top of your lineup (guaranteed to get more AB's than any other player on your team) that cant get on base.

Ideally use a faster guy with a high OBP..best of both worlds.

[BA2929]

Re: speed or .obp?

In my Royals franchise I leadoff Alex Gordon. I like when he's up when the 7-8-9 guys get on before him so I have a shot to rip a double instead of hoping for an RBI bloop with a fast-only guy. Usually the leadoff guy only leads off once a game anyway, so I prefer a guy with a good OBP and some pop.

Leadoff HRs are great as well.

I also hate sac bunts in the 1st inning. If my 2nd hole hitter isn't good enough for me to trust him to smack a double and drive in a guy from 1st and I'd rather waste his AB with a bunt, then why is he batting 2nd?

Dont agree with the majority of your post but I will definitely switch my lineup so thst a lefty hit 3rd. Only makes sense #thanks

Honestly, you should have a good enough hitter in the 3 hole that it shouldn't matter if he's a lefty or a righty. An MLB 3-hole hitter should be able to hit a ball to the right side and drive a guy in as often as a lefty. For example, the 2013 Tigers didn't bat Prince Fielder 3rd and Miggy 4th just because Fielder was a lefty.

[turty11]

Re: speed or .obp?

i think it depends on whos following him up really.
do my 2-4 guys have any speed, or are they all obp guys?

id take a .3 obp with 30 steals all day for a leadoff though.

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: speed or .obp?

People forget the lineup order only really matters throughout the order one time. I like to put my best hitters batting 2nd, 1st, or 4th then 3rd so they get more AB's. Statistically the 3rd hole hitter should be your 4th or 5th best hitter, because they get the most AB's with 2 outs and no one on. Your best hitter overall should bat 2nd, while your highest OBP guy should lead off.

Disagree. I would rather my 2 hitter be a solid contact guy. For example if I am the Reds no way I would ever bat Votto 2nd. If I am the Jays I am not batting Bautista 2nd and if I am the Tigers I am not batting Miggy 2nd. Your best hitter should bat third for obvious reasons. You want your first two guys to be able to get on base with strong contact and a solid hitter with some power bat 3rd and 4th.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: speed or .obp?

Well that's traditionally what people do, but it won't maximize your runs. Why would I want my best hitter getting the most ab's with 2 outs and noone on?

Your description is how little league coaches think honestly.

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[tylerh]

Re: speed or .obp?

Which one do you prefer for your leadoff hitter? Right now my leadoff guy only has 51 speed but he has an .obp over .380

OBP, assuming he's not so slow he's clogging the basepaths. I don't care if you steal 50 bags a year, if you get on at a .320 clip you're not gonna be my leadoff hitter.

[tylerh]

Re: speed or .obp?

Well that's traditionally what people do, but it won't maximize your runs. Why would I want my best hitter getting the most ab's with 2 outs and noone on?

Your description is how little league coaches think honestly.

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The idea of having someone bat second just so they can sacrifice an out for one extra base is pretty goofy. Your #2 hitter comes up in situations just like what the #3 hitter does, but a lot more often. Votto is a good #2 hitter because he gets on at a ridiculous rate and also has the ability to drive in runs (although I'd argue he may be just as good at hitting cleanup).

i think it depends on whos following him up really.
do my 2-4 guys have any speed, or are they all obp guys?

id take a .3 obp with 30 steals all day for a leadoff though.

A .300 OBP is pretty crummy though...

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: speed or .obp?

Well that's traditionally what people do, but it won't maximize your runs. Why would I want my best hitter getting the most ab's with 2 outs and noone on?

Your description is how little league coaches think honestly.

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Little league coaches such as Terry Francona Tony La Russa?

You want your best hitter to come up with the chance to drive in one or two runs, not the chance to drive in just one.

Batting third gives you the most chances to produce runs. If you bat second and the leadoff hitter doesn't get a hit then you have someone like Miggy batting with nobody on anyways. If they bat 3rd they have a much more likely chance to drive in a run.

[saturn2187]

Re: speed or .obp?

I play QC on so even if I have a speedy guy get on to lead off the game, his SB opportunities are minimized with QC - thus I shoot for OBP

[timmermac]

Re: speed or .obp?

I prefer speed throughout my lineup, mostly at the top. It's much more disruptive to the defense. I like to have 4 guys that can run with at least 3 guys with the potential to hit 25+ homers, and if at least 1 of them can do both, I'm a happy dwarf. My 13 Braves 'chise (with end of season OSFM rosters) has this lineup:

Andrelton Simmons - SS - Surprising speed
BJ Upton - CF - Best runner on the team, but too much power for leadoff
Jason Heyward - RF - Power/Speed
Freddie Freeman - 1B
Brian McCann - C
Justin Upton - LF - He can run a bit as well
Dan Uggla - 2B - I like the power
Chris Johnson - 3B - He'll do until I can get a better player
Pitcher's Spot

I'd love to be able to pry Sano from the Twins, but it would probably take too many prospects.

[MLB Bob]

Re: speed or .obp?

Little league coaches such as Terry Francona Tony La Russa?

You want your best hitter to come up with the chance to drive in one or two runs, not the chance to drive in just one.

Batting third gives you the most chances to produce runs. If you bat second and the leadoff hitter doesn't get a hit then you have someone like Miggy batting with nobody on anyways. If they bat 3rd they have a much more likely chance to drive in a run.

Im never this concerned about whats happening in the 1st inning as thats the only time you're guaranteed to have your lead off hitter bat lead off. Its also been shown with stats that what cardnialbird7 says is how to optimize the line up and the way you presented it is the old school way of thought.

The number 2 guy gets more Ab's and getting on base (clog bases isnt even a real thing either, id rather have men on base than a speedy guy with no one to hit him in) Its a matter of preference but there are numbers to suggest what would theoretically would offer better numbers. This is just gonna turn into a war of old school new school debate that traditionalists and sabrheads will disagree on.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: speed or .obp?

Little league coaches such as Terry Francona Tony La Russa?

You want your best hitter to come up with the chance to drive in one or two runs, not the chance to drive in just one.

Batting third gives you the most chances to produce runs. If you bat second and the leadoff hitter doesn't get a hit then you have someone like Miggy batting with nobody on anyways. If they bat 3rd they have a much more likely chance to drive in a run.

LaRussa batted power guys 2nd plenty of times....Chris Duncan, Jim Edmonds, Larry Walker, Allen Craig, etc. Rarely, did he put some speedy/contact guy in the 2 hole unless they had a really good OBP. He used Renteria in the 2 hole a little bit from 2002-2004, but he preferred him in the 6 or 7 hole to drive in runs. Matheny batted Beltran 2nd the past 2 years.

I am sorry, but statistically, you are wrong. Batting 4th gives you the most chances to drive in runs, not 3rd. You need to think outside the first inning my friend. Batting 2nd gives you the most opportunity to drive in and score runs, while batting 1st gives you the most opportunity to score runs.

As I mentioned above though, a lineup shuffle can only increase your runs by 20-30 a year, unless you take your worst possible lineup order compared to your best then it could yield a difference of a lot more (50+ runs) but that never happens.

And everytime I used the Reds, I'd always bat Votto 2nd with Phillips batting 3rd and Bruce 4th.

Read this: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/are-l...ore-optimized/

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

[MLB Bob]

Re: speed or .obp?

Disagree. I would rather my 2 hitter be a solid contact guy. For example if I am the Reds no way I would ever bat Votto 2nd. If I am the Jays I am not batting Bautista 2nd and if I am the Tigers I am not batting Miggy 2nd. Your best hitter should bat third for obvious reasons. You want your first two guys to be able to get on base with strong contact and a solid hitter with some power bat 3rd and 4th.

When the Jays were struggling to get runs one year and had injuries they put Jose Bautista 2nd, and this was after he became a power hitter...and he's also lead off with the exact purpose of getting on base and increase production.