Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

[mgcst5]

So i've been working on this for a while. There has been a recent trend of converting relief pitchers to starters that has varied success in baseball. In the Show 14 this is possible by editing any pitcher and turning them into a starter. Most who do this simply add the stamina points necessary to make them a reliable 5-6 inning starter. The fact is though that many players who make this conversion have there numbers regress a bit from there relief pitching says. Unfortunately I can not find the source (so take this with a grain of salt) but i read in an interview with a scout on the subject that typically players love 2-3 mph on there FB as well as add a run to there ERA. This isn't always the case but with this in mind I believe that I have created a system to make this conversion more realistic for dedicated 'Chisers.

Lets say you have a relief pitcher who has 34 stamina that you would like to convert into a starter. To simulate the change I decided that you should take 5 points off of each of his per 9 stats (H, K, BB, HR). 20 points in total. These points can be directly added to stamina. This now gives you a pitcher with 54 stamina. The next step is to correct velocity.

For this I find the fastball for the pitcher and take 10 points from the velocity attribute and again apply this directly to the samina. Some pitchers have multiple types of fastballs in there arsenal. In this case I will take 5 mph from each secondary fastball (to avoid decreasing the total velocity of the pitcher too far and to avoid give a newly converted pitcher too much stamina). So if the pitcher in my example above has two types of fastballs, the first one I will take 10 points from the first and 5 from the second and add those 15 points to the 54 stamina. Depending on how you have your sliders 69 points of stamina should be plenty to get the player through the 5th.

So for an overview

-5 for each per 9 stats
-10 speed points for for first fastball, -5 for each proceeding fastball.

All points subtracted added to stamina.

I hope any readers will find this guide useful to maintaining realism in their dynasty. Please feel free to comment with any feedback.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

Cool idea.

How would this work for converting starters to relief pitchers? It seems that happens more often than relief pitchers becoming starters, at least over one's pitching career.

[mgcst5]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

Cool idea.

How would this work for converting starters to relief pitchers? It seems that happens more often than relief pitchers becoming starters, at least over one's pitching career.

I think it could just work in reverse. I mean many starters who convert to relief often have more success. I just tested this theory with Zach Britton and it takes him from a 74 rated starter to an 81 rated reliever which seems reasonably realistic considering how he is producing.

[moth to a flame]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I find the assumption that the role of a player changes his talents is false. Moving to the pen may increase your velocity, but a pitcher's K and BB percentages doesn't necessarily change. When Neftali Feliz changed, his attributes were basically the same.

If you wanted to do a conversion, I think the loss of speed justifies the increase in endurance. You don't need to change the pitcher's talent. That's not realistic to me.

[mgcst5]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I find the assumption that the role of a player changes his talents is false. Moving to the pen may increase your velocity, but a pitcher's K and BB percentages doesn't necessarily change. When Neftali Feliz changed, his attributes were basically the same.

If you wanted to do a conversion, I think the loss of speed justifies the increase in endurance. You don't need to change the pitcher's talent. That's not realistic to me.

Fair point but Pitchers tend to suffer an ERA bump when they move int a starting role. In my sims the minor degrading in the per 9 stats across board registered as an ERA bump of about 1. I converted a pitcher in each division using this guide. Jim Johnson is the primary example (the orioles talked of converting him for years) so I turned injuries off and made the edits i suggested and ran several sims and while across the board there were varied results (Justin Wilson 2.14 ERA in a sim yet Aroldis Chapman had an ERA of 5+.) Johnson produced a high 3's/low 4's era consistently. Chapman and Wilson in other sims had vastly different stats but averaging the Earned runs per 9 innings among the 6 starters over 3 sims they sat around the high 3's/low 4's. This is about what you see out of these converted pitchers, especially considering no training was done for these players over time so, especially for the young ones, they would likely develop more as a starter. You dont have to use this system but I will say that pitchers do lose something when they move to the rotation, at least at first.

And while Feliz was performing as a starter his peripherals suggested he was significantly less effective. Lower K rate, higher walk rate contributing to a FIP increase of about a run.

[HozAndMoose]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

Fair point but Pitchers tend to suffer an ERA bump when they move int a starting role. In my sims the minor degrading in the per 9 stats across board registered as an ERA bump of about 1. I converted a pitcher in each division using this guide. Jim Johnson is the primary example (the orioles talked of converting him for years) so I turned injuries off and made the edits i suggested and ran several sims and while across the board there were varied results (Justin Wilson 2.14 ERA in a sim yet Aroldis Chapman had an ERA of 5+.) Johnson produced a high 3's/low 4's era consistently. Chapman and Wilson in other sims had vastly different stats but averaging the Earned runs per 9 innings among the 6 starters over 3 sims they sat around the high 3's/low 4's. This is about what you see out of these converted pitchers, especially considering no training was done for these players over time so, especially for the young ones, they would likely develop more as a starter. You dont have to use this system but I will say that pitchers do lose something when they move to the rotation, at least at first.

And while Feliz was performing as a starter his peripherals suggested he was significantly less effective. Lower K rate, higher walk rate contributing to a FIP increase of about a run.

That ERA bump could just be that they are pitching 4+ more innings a game and 100+ more innings a year. ERA is a bad stat to use in this situation.

[rjackson]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

There has been a fair amount of studies on this. There are many reasons that a RP's ERA is lower than starter's ERAs. Things like inherited runners--relievers don't get charged with these.

However, it is clear that there is a drop in velocity and to assume that there is not a drop in K% is naive. Tango determined the rule of 17%, that is that K% drops by 17% (some more and some less but this is the mean).

These are really the only stats that I change when converting them: stamina, K/9, and fastball velocity. The other pitches adjust themselves when you change the fastball velocity.

[mgcst5]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

Perhaps I was focusing too hard on the ERA bump. It does appear that there is a fairly significant drop in K-rate so perhaps I will just have -10 from that stats and keep the velocity rules the same. The only issue I have is you take a guy like Tommy Hunter who converted from starter to reliever and all his peripherals improved drastically (I know not this year, he should have never been closing). I just done like the idea of Craig Krimbrel starting and pitching how he is now. Would never happen. One thing I didnt account for was players facing these pitchers for a second time in a game which certainly has an effect but I am not quite sure how.

[KBLover]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

There has been a fair amount of studies on this. There are many reasons that a RP's ERA is lower than starter's ERAs. Things like inherited runners--relievers don't get charged with these.

However, it is clear that there is a drop in velocity and to assume that there is not a drop in K% is naive. Tango determined the rule of 17%, that is that K% drops by 17% (some more and some less but this is the mean).

These are really the only stats that I change when converting them: stamina, K/9, and fastball velocity. The other pitches adjust themselves when you change the fastball velocity.

I might would lower H/9 a touch as well. I think one reason is that relievers can go all out on each pitch since they likely won't have to throw many. Starters probably have to pace themselves more so that they can have more effectiveness longer.

I think, for how the game relates pitching (in the real game, most pitchers probably don't have the direct impact on H/9, especially among starters, but in this game the "rules" are a little different), I think lowering H/9 would be something worth at least trying to see if it works out.

Plus, it could simulate some bit of an adjustment period to a new routine, new mindset on the mound, etc.

[Jr.]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I've started going through at the beginning of a season and converting SPs in their late 20s that haven't made it to the majors yet to RPs.

I'll take their stamina down into the mid 30s to low 40s, add 2-3 mph to their FB (2S, 4S, CU, SNK) and hard off-speed pitches (SL, SPL, etc) and 1-2 mph on slower off-speed pitches (CB, CH, SLV). I'll then add 10-15 points to their H/9 and K/9 atts.

It's worked out pretty well as guys tend to keep the same OVR, or maybe gain a point or 2.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I'm even more interested in some kind of formula to convert players to different positions in the field. Obviously, it should not affect their statistics but I wonder about fielding. How should this be done?

I play as the Cubs and with the new acquisition of Addisson Russell for Jeff Samardzija, we're pretty loaded up in the infield. If the Cubs are to keep Castro, either him, Baez or Kris Bryant are going to need to move to the outfield. As it stands, I'd be looking to move Castro out there.

[Jr.]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I'm even more interested in some kind of formula to convert players to different positions in the field. Obviously, it should not affect their statistics but I wonder about fielding. How should this be done?

I play as the Cubs and with the new acquisition of Addisson Russell for Jeff Samardzija, we're pretty loaded up in the infield. If the Cubs are to keep Castro, either him, Baez or Kris Bryant are going to need to move to the outfield. As it stands, I'd be looking to move Castro out there.

I don't alter anything when I move someone to a new position. I moved Bryant to RF for a season in my franchise, before moving him back to 3B, and just left his fielding as it was (in the mid 50s I think, it wasn't very good to begin with).

[Gagnon39]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I don't alter anything when I move someone to a new position. I moved Bryant to RF for a season in my franchise, before moving him back to 3B, and just left his fielding as it was (in the mid 50s I think, it wasn't very good to begin with).

So you just simply change their position on the edit player screen? I think their fielding should drop just a bit for a while. Maybe just 5-10 points.

[Jr.]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

So you just simply change their position on the edit player screen? I think their fielding should drop just a bit for a while. Maybe just 5-10 points.

I've only switched Bryant. He wasn't a good defensive 3B so lowering him at all would have made him an awful OF. A better fielder, I probably would lower their fielding rating a bit.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Converting Relief Pitchers to Starters Guide

I've only switched Bryant. He wasn't a good defensive 3B so lowering him at all would have made him an awful OF. A better fielder, I probably would lower their fielding rating a bit.

So if you moved Bryant to the outfield, who do you have at third? Baez? I'm considering (for the future) Bryant in the outfield, Baez at third, Russell at short, Alcantara at second, and if I keep him, Castro in the outfield as well.