You make the call!

[Joey]

Re: You make the call!

If that's the case it would have been easier for the outfielder to have just tossed the ball into the stands after he caught it. Would have saved him the trouble of that long throw.

The runner from first didn't tag up. On his way back to 1rst after the ball was caught, the throw went into the stands. Therefore a dead ball. The runner is not allowed to go back to first. He is out.

[bukktown]

Re: You make the call!

The batter is out according to rule 7.10(a)(b)(2)

7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;
Rule 7.10(a) Comment: “Retouch,” in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base.
(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base

Nice find!

So my base runner would have needed to retouch 2nd base before the ball went out of play. The outfielder could have turned around and flipped the ball over the CF fence and ended the inning! That sounds crazy!!!

[braves_94]

Re: You make the call!

The batter is out according to rule 7.10(a)(b)(2)

7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;
Rule 7.10(a) Comment: “Retouch,” in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base.
(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base

Wrong ruling. The proper one is the last time by ruling. A missed base can be corrected if a runner touches a base after an award. For the runner to be even considered out, the pitcher must appeal by throwing the ball to the in question base of the infraction, once the ball is back in play. The umpire cannot call the runner out in this situation before the ball is live again, and certainly not until the pitcher appeals. Since the ball went into the stands, the umpire awards the runner two bases based on his last legally touched base, which would be first. That is his only possible ruling at this point. He can't call the runner out here. The runner retreats back to first after the award made by the umpire. He then proceeds to touch all bases and advances to third safely on given award. The pitcher can still appeal, however based on last time by rule, the out is not given since the infraction is corrected on the touch after the awarded bases.

Rule 7.10 doesn't note situations when awards are given to runners.

[kehlis]

Re: You make the call!

Nice find!



So my base runner would have needed to retouch 2nd base before the ball went out of play. The outfielder could have turned around and flipped the ball over the CF fence and ended the inning! That sounds crazy!!!

Nah that rule has to do with having missed a base which isn't the case here. Had he somehow missed second on his way to third then yes he would be out.

Third would be the correct ruling in this case.

[Joey]

Re: You make the call!

I do hope no one assumed by my comment that I thought the runner was out... I guess my sarcasm didn't translate well there!

[braves_94]

Re: You make the call!

Nah that rule has to do with having missed a base which isn't the case here. Had he somehow missed second on his way to third then yes he would be out.

Third would be the correct ruling in this case.

He would have been out, but only after appeal in your example, and only if he didn't touch second on the award of third. The umpire cannot call a runner out simply because he missed a bag in live play. Only after a pitcher appeal once the ball is dead. Even after missing second, he'd still be awarded third, and as long as he touches second on the award of third he is safe. Even if he never touched second when the ball is live.

The rule quoted above comes in play during an example like this: The runner takes off on the pitch. The hitter pops up to right field. Upon realizing the ball was caught, the runner retreats back to first. While retreating, the ball goes over the first basemen's head, but is still in play. The runner, without touching first again, takes off for second, then takes third. The ball is dead when the ball is in the pitchers glove and he's on the mound and the runner doesn't make a baseball move off third base. The ball becomes live again when the pitcher steps on the rubber. At this point the runner cannot retreat back to first, only second. The pitcher then steps off the rubber and throw to first. Then it's up to the umpire to decide if the runner left early from first. If he did, an out is recorded.

Can't note this enough, an appeal can only happen during time in which the ball is live. It doesn't mean the umpire can call the runner out on the spot. The other team must make an appeal. Without an appeal of the previous play, the runner stays on third despite missing first.

[kehlis]

Re: You make the call!

He would have been out, but only after appeal in your example, and only if he didn't touch second on the award of third. The umpire cannot call a runner out simply because he missed a bag in live play. Only after a pitcher appeal once the ball is dead. Even after missing second, he'd still be awarded third, and as long as he touches second on the award of third he is safe. Even if he never touched second when the ball is live.

The rule quoted above comes in play during an example like this: The runner takes off on the pitch. The hitter pops up to right field. Upon realizing the ball was caught, the runner retreats back to first. While retreating, the ball goes over the first basemen's head, but is still in play. The runner, without touching first again, takes off for second, then takes third. The ball is dead when the ball is in the pitchers glove and he's on the mound and the runner doesn't make a baseball move off third base. The ball becomes live again when the pitcher steps on the rubber. At this point the runner cannot retreat back to first, only second. The pitcher then steps off the rubber and throw to first. Then it's up to the umpire to decide if the runner left early from first. If he did, an out is recorded.

Can't note this enough, an appeal can only happen during time in which the ball is live. It doesn't mean the umpire can call the runner out on the spot. The other team must make an appeal. Without an appeal of the previous play, the runner stays on third despite missing first.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up, it has no relevance to this play. The runner never missed a bag, no one has questioned appeal rules even though you keep bringing them up.

[saucerset]

Re: You make the call!

I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up, it has no relevance to this play. The runner never missed a bag, no one has questioned appeal rules even though you keep bringing them up.

It has to do with the runner not tagging up and making it almost 2 full bases past his original base when the ball is caught. The main question here is right now we have 2 valid rules for this play but which one trumps the other? The runner is out (on appeal) if before he reaches his original base the ball is considered a dead ball. I would think the ball going into the stands is considered a dead ball, but I may be mistaken. Someone needs to dig up the ruling on a dead ball.

[Mrmagoo]

Re: You make the call!

Where's the popcorn?

[saucerset]

Re: You make the call!

5.02
After the umpire calls “Play” the ball is alive and in play and remains alive and in play until for legal cause, or at the umpire’s call of “Time” suspending play, the ball becomes dead. While the ball is dead no player may be put out, no bases may be run and no runs may be scored, except that runners may advance one or more bases as the result of acts which occurred while the ball was alive (such as, but not limited to a balk, an overthrow, interference, or a home run or other fair ball hit out of the playing field).

I was wrong. He would be awarded 2 bases based on the actions that happened while the play was live.

[tessl]

Re: You make the call!

An odd play just happened in a game and I have no idea what the rule book states but I'm sure somebody here knows.

Situation- runner on first, 1 out, I'm batting

I hit lazy fly ball to center, I think that there are 2 outs so I send my runner to 3rd. The CF catches it and throws it in to the cutoff man. At this point I realize my mistake and watch helplessly as the CPU completes the easy double play.....

but wait! The cutoff man airmails the throw to the 1st baseman and the ball goes out of play.

Now, you make the call! What was the result of this play according to the Show?
I will make a multiple choice.

A. The runner gets a free retreat to first base.
B. The runner gets a free retreat to first base and is awarded 2nd base on the ball out of play.
C. The runner is allowed to score.
D. The double play is awarded to the fielding team. Inning over.

Also, If anyone knows how this would be ruled in real life please share!

Since the fielder was not the first fielder to touch the ball it depends on the position of the runners when the ball left the hand of the cutoff man. Therefore you did not provide enough information to make a decision.

[HozAndMoose]

Re: You make the call!

5.02
After the umpire calls “Play” the ball is alive and in play and remains alive and in play until for legal cause, or at the umpire’s call of “Time” suspending play, the ball becomes dead. While the ball is dead no player may be put out, no bases may be run and no runs may be scored, except that runners may advance one or more bases as the result of acts which occurred while the ball was alive (such as, but not limited to a balk, an overthrow, interference, or a home run or other fair ball hit out of the playing field).

I was wrong. He would be awarded 2 bases based on the actions that happened while the play was live.

This seems to be the correct answer. Its what i got when i asked other places. It would be nice to get an answer form some of these baseball writers or ESPN analysts but apparently they are to busy to reply.

[bukktown]

Re: You make the call!

Since the fielder was not the first fielder to touch the ball it depends on the position of the runners when the ball left the hand of the cutoff man. Therefore you did not provide enough information to make a decision.

The runner who was originally on 1B was standing on 3B when the cutoff man threw the ball into the stands.

[kehlis]

Re: You make the call!

Since the fielder was not the first fielder to touch the ball it depends on the position of the runners when the ball left the hand of the cutoff man. Therefore you did not provide enough information to make a decision.

Position of the runner is irrelevant since he is technically on first base regardless of where he physically stands due to leaving early.

Once the ball was thrown out of play before he had a fair chance to retreat to first he gets two bases from the base he owns which at the time is first base.

[BA2929]

Re: You make the call!

It would be nice to get an answer form some of these baseball writers or ESPN analysts but apparently they are too busy to reply.

I highly doubt any of them even know the answer. You'd be surprised how many people in baseball don't know 100% of the rules.


This is the correct answer I believe:

Position of the runner is irrelevant since he is technically on first base regardless of where he physically stands due to leaving early.

Once the ball was thrown out of play before he had a fair chance to retreat to first he gets two bases from the base he owns which at the time is first base.