Do pull hitters pull enough?

[Bobhead]

Do you guys think that CPU-controlled hitters are susceptible enough to their hitting tendencies? I don't think they are.

I've played about 60 games now. I've had countless situations where I had a defensive shift set, and the ball was hit the other way. Am I saying pull hitters show no bias at all towards the pull side? There's no question, the "pull" (and other) tendencies definitely have an effect on hitting. But it doesn't seem to be at the ridiculous rate of the real-life extreme hitters, like Curtis Granderson, David Ortiz, etc...

So do you guys feel like pull hitters pull enough?

[KBLover]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

IMO, no.

And even when I "pitch to the shift", they'll pull a Derek Jeter and inside out the ball. I can also do the same without consequence with a "pure pull" hitter, regardless of ability.

If real pull hitters could do that with consistency...the shift would be dead already, imo.

It seems the swing timing doesn't line up with the spray chart tendencies, which causes hit direction to have less chance to line up.

[rspencer86]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

Agreed Bobhead. Too many times I have a shift against an extreme pull hitter and they'll end up shooting one the other way. Not just on outside pitches or on pitches where they are fooled, either.

[Knight165]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

IMO..no.
Not enough to shift on push/pull tendencies alone.
I will shift with the push/pull tendency AND pitching either in/out depending.

IMO...they should scrap the push/pull on hitters in year 1 to start...and then have the tendency be supplied on their actual hit totals for each section dynamically.
Of course...that would mean tracking it!

M.K.
Knight165

[Bobhead]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

IMO..no.
Not enough to shift on push/pull tendencies alone.
I will shift with the push/pull tendency AND pitching either in/out depending.

IMO...they should scrap the push/pull on hitters in year 1 to start...and then have the tendency be supplied on their actual hit totals for each section dynamically.
Of course...that would mean tracking it!

M.K.
Knight165

So you don't want pre-assigned biases to hitters? If I'm understanding correctly?

That also raises the question of what to do with the "regular sim" engine. Would it just randomly generate spray charts for games I don't play?

[HopiDesertPriest]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

Do you guys think that CPU-controlled hitters are susceptible enough to their hitting tendencies? I don't think they are.

I've played about 60 games now. I've had countless situations where I had a defensive shift set, and the ball was hit the other way. Am I saying pull hitters show no bias at all towards the pull side? There's no question, the "pull" (and other) tendencies definitely have an effect on hitting. But it doesn't seem to be at the ridiculous rate of the real-life extreme hitters, like Curtis Granderson, David Ortiz, etc...

So do you guys feel like pull hitters pull enough?

This is an excellent thread. Shifting needs to be improved by SCEA next year. They should let us move all fielders anywhere we want to move them (except for the 1st baseman).

I actually feel that YES -- Push/Pull is accurate and I shift against at least 33% of all the batters that I face.

I never hit in this game, and I only pitch. I am currently playing every game on the 2014 MLB schedule. I am about 200 games in and I play with quick counts. I sometimes sim innings - but for the most part I pitch with both teams.

Therefore, I have seen all types of pitchers vs hitters match-up VS different kinds of shifts. I have saved a lot of run and hits with the shift and the shifts have helped me MUCH more than they have hurt me.

I have a *Defensive Shift* Bible, if you will, on every MLB hitter in the Show. Is anyone interested in having me post my information that has been acquired over hundreds of played games and hundreds-and-hundreds of shifts ?

And Knight is right -- spray charts need to be dynamic and we need STATS from SCEA.

Thanks Friends.

[Knight165]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

So you don't want pre-assigned biases to hitters? If I'm understanding correctly?

That also raises the question of what to do with the "regular sim" engine. Would it just randomly generate spray charts for games I don't play?

That depends....are all players correctly charted right now.
I'll be honest....I haven't looked into the charts vs. actual enough to determine that.
If they do indeed have the correct charts...then I wouldn't mind them to start....

M.K.
Knight165

[Bobhead]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

That depends....are all players correctly charted right now.
I'll be honest....I haven't looked into the charts vs. actual enough to determine that.
If they do indeed have the correct charts...then I wouldn't mind them to start....

M.K.
Knight165

Oh well I have no idea about how accurate they are. I've not checked that either.

Honestly I couldn't care less.

I just don't like seeing a shift automatically applied against a hitter that won't actually hit into the shift at least 75% of the time.

[Knight165]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

Oh well I have no idea about how accurate they are. I've not checked that either.

Honestly I couldn't care less.

I just don't like seeing a shift automatically applied against a hitter that won't actually hit into the shift at least 75% of the time.

Yeah....
I just don't know if they are "forcing" pull/push hitters or if they are ....how it's done to get that result.

M.K.
Knight165

[nomo17k]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

I remember Brian@SCEA mentioning that push/pull tendency was implemented through swing timing shift, roughly meaning that when a swing is initiated by a pull hitter, he ends up being a bit earlier on the pitch than a neutral hitter would be. The opposite would be true for a push hitter.

That was when the first time this was implemented though (MLB 12 or 13? Don't remember which...).

If it is still implemented this way, I think the end result would really vary based on how the hitter is pitched to, and especially when the hitter is controlled by a human gamer.

[3fiddy]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

As soon as I leave a pitch on the outside of the plate Big Papi knocks it the other way for a hit everytime. So I have to throw inside everytime and it feels pretty risky.

[KBLover]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

That depends....are all players correctly charted right now.
I'll be honest....I haven't looked into the charts vs. actual enough to determine that.
If they do indeed have the correct charts...then I wouldn't mind them to start....

M.K.
Knight165

And if they aren't accurate, let's get them to be accurate.

I like the idea of it being dynamic, and for the created draftees (and any created players in general), I guess it would be random/even and then go from there?

You know, why can't we edit spray charts or at least say like "Spray hitter" or "Pull hitter", etc on creation or editing and then the chart moves to whatever that setting is.

[KMRblue1027]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

I've found that I simply almost never pull the ball at all. The AI seems to be pretty random though.

[Bobhead]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

I remember Brian@SCEA mentioning that push/pull tendency was implemented through swing timing shift, roughly meaning that when a swing is initiated by a pull hitter, he ends up being a bit earlier on the pitch than a neutral hitter would be. The opposite would be true for a push hitter.

That was when the first time this was implemented though (MLB 12 or 13? Don't remember which...).

If it is still implemented this way, I think the end result would really vary based on how the hitter is pitched to, and especially when the hitter is controlled by a human gamer.

I've found that I simply almost never pull the ball at all. The AI seems to be pretty random though.

yeah this thread is targeted solely at CPU-controlled batters. I don't think it's even possible to implement a system that would affect the outcome of at-bats of batters controlled by humans... not without compromising the batting experience overall.

And I'm not even sure I'd want a system like that.

This is just about the CPU, where there should be no-holds-barred in the integration between tendency and output.

[KBLover]

Re: Do pull hitters pull enough?

yeah this thread is targeted solely at CPU-controlled batters. I don't think it's even possible to implement a system that would affect the outcome of at-bats of batters controlled by humans... not without compromising the batting experience overall.

And I'm not even sure I'd want a system like that.

This is just about the CPU, where there should be no-holds-barred in the integration between tendency and output.

I can think of a couple things at least as a Timing hitter:

-Make left/right influence impactful on all swings, not just bunts

-Make physical timing the largest influence to hit direction. Seems like the timing slider means more than actually being early/late. The PCI location also have a lot of influence. The influencing should influence the PCI location more often. (i.e a RHB influencing to the right side should try to keep the PCI inside the ball instead of hooking it anyway or it being purely random)

-Make the spray chart the BASE for the user timing. I.e. the User using "perfect" timing will hit according to the spray chart. Then, hitting to various parts of the field would take more effort for some hitters, less for others and based on location. A pull hitter hitting off-speed on the inside should be able to easily pull that ball (greatest challenge would be keeping it fair), but trying to go the other way, the swing would almost have to be "too late". That would keep the user involved while considering player tendency as well.