Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

[aguero90]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

eaw913, whenever I need to go forward or back in time, I just use my timeturner. I'll bring back some copies of 15!

[cusefan74]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

The word "broken" needs to be banned from this site.

[Millennium]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

This thread is being locked. While it may have some valid points, we expect points to be portrayed in a constructive manner.

[Chris_SCEA_Sports]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Hi ericjwm-

Good to hear from you. You have been on these forums about as long as I have, and while I don't generally like my team's hard work classified as a "joke"...I do value your opinion. I asked Millennium to re-open this thread, so that I could comment (Thanks Millennium!)

Regarding the personalized batting animations...As you know, years ago we did exactly what you are talking about, ie we had personalized walkup, take-pitch, miss, etc animations for some of the big name players, including Nomar. These sequences took a long time to gather reference footage, motion capture and a very long time to edit. Batting animations are, by far, the most difficult animations in the game.

The issue we ran into was this: We spent so much time working on the sequences for a few batters, that we did not have much time left over to do stances for all the other players in the game. We literally would get bogged down getting through these sequences that other areas of the game suffered. There were also times when a player would change his stance such that it would invalidate all the work done to match the rest of his sequence.

So we looked at the data that tells us how people play the game, and we discovered that the vast majority (and I mean the overwhelmingly vast, vast, vast majority) of players "X" through the walkups, and the between pitch animations to get to the next pitch. We also has lots of comments like, "Why isn't so and so players stance in the game?"

So now, as the Lead Animator, I am faced with this dilemma: Do I have my team work on 20 or so full sequences, that the majority (remember: vast, vast) will simply "X" through at the expense of other areas of the game, or do we limit the number of personalized animations in a batter's sequence. Much to your chagrin, I chose to limit the animations in the sequence to Stance, "practice swing," stride and HR. Those are the animations people tend to focus on when determining if a player in the game looks like their real-life counterpart. This also allows us to get through 5x as many stances each year.

Obviously how a players swings the bat can be quite personal as well, but that is not as simple as capturing 1 swing animation per batter. If it was, we would do it. Our swings are made up of 9 animations for the strike zone (inside low, inside mid, inside high, mid-low, mid-mid... you get the idea), so again 9 swings per player, not including way inside and way outside. So just use a generic swing, and capture a personalized hit and run!!! Great idea, except that we have to have hit and runs from all the different swings...you can't have a player swinging at a ball that is low and away, and using a generic hit and run, for obvious reasons.

Please note, a couple of years ago, we expanded the number of personalized animations in the pitcher's sequence...up from 7 animations to 12. New and re-done pitchers now have personalized step-ups, nods, pitch resets, etc...instead of them all using generic versions of these animations, as they did in the past.

Finally, I am not saying that we will never get back to doing full sequences for some players. I know you (and the small minority of players who do not X through post pitch animations) would love to see them. It will have to be handled on a case by case basis, for now. What I will commit to is increasing the variety of take-pitch, miss, foul ball, strike-out, and walkup animations for next year. As with everything in game development, it boils down to time, resources and priority.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for reading-

Chris

ps. I have made note of the 2 handed issue people are seeing with Justin Upton, and I will look into it.

[Hockeynut99]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

I for one agree with your decisions Chris.

[boxers]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Great comment. I understand people wanting the game to be as accurate and life-like as possible but also understand the finite resources you guys are working with.

Personally, I'm one of the "vast" majority who X through those animations, so I may be biased, but I appreciate that you guys have actually through what you decide to keep in the game vs. what you decide to leave out.

[Factzzz]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Spoiler

Hi ericjwm-

Good to hear from you. You have been on these forums about as long as I have, and while I don't generally like my team's hard work classified as a "joke"...I do value your opinion. I asked Millennium to re-open this thread, so that I could comment (Thanks Millennium!)

Regarding the personalized batting animations...As you know, years ago we did exactly what you are talking about, ie we had personalized walkup, take-pitch, miss, etc animations for some of the big name players, including Nomar. These sequences took a long time to gather reference footage, motion capture and a very long time to edit. Batting animations are, by far, the most difficult animations in the game.

The issue we ran into was this: We spent so much time working on the sequences for a few batters, that we did not have much time left over to do stances for all the other players in the game. We literally would get bogged down getting through these sequences that other areas of the game suffered. There were also times when a player would change his stance such that it would invalidate all the work done to match the rest of his sequence.

So we looked at the data that tells us how people play the game, and we discovered that the vast majority (and I mean the overwhelmingly vast, vast, vast majority) of players "X" through the walkups, and the between pitch animations to get to the next pitch. We also has lots of comments like, "Why isn't so and so players stance in the game?"

So now, as the Lead Animator, I am faced with this dilemma: Do I have my team work on 20 or so full sequences, that the majority (remember: vast, vast) will simply "X" through at the expense of other areas of the game, or do we limit the number of personalized animations in a batter's sequence. Much to your chagrin, I chose to limit the animations in the sequence to Stance, "practice swing," stride and HR. Those are the animations people tend to focus on when determining if a player in the game looks like their real-life counterpart. This also allows us to get through 5x as many stances each year.

Obviously how a players swings the bat can be quite personal as well, but that is not as simple as capturing 1 swing animation per batter. If it was, we would do it. Our swings are made up of 9 animations for the strike zone (inside low, inside mid, inside high, mid-low, mid-mid... you get the idea), so again 9 swings per player, not including way inside and way outside. So just use a generic swing, and capture a personalized hit and run!!! Great idea, except that we have to have hit and runs from all the different swings...you can't have a player swinging at a ball that is low and away, and using a generic hit and run, for obvious reasons.

Please note, a couple of years ago, we expanded the number of personalized animations in the pitcher's sequence...up from 7 animations to 12. New and re-done pitchers now have personalized step-ups, nods, pitch resets, etc...instead of them all using generic versions of these animations, as they did in the past.

Finally, I am not saying that we will never get back to doing full sequences for some players. I know you (and the small minority of players who do not X through post pitch animations) would love to see them. It will have to be handled on a case by case basis, for now. What I will commit to is increasing the variety of take-pitch, miss, foul ball, strike-out, and walkup animations for next year. As with everything in game development, it boils down to time, resources and priority.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for reading-

Chris

ps. I have made note of the 2 handed issue people are seeing with Justin Upton, and I will look into it.

If you are looking for anymore feedback,

The swing follow throughs could use a lot of work, basically all the one handed follow throughs from the right side (especially the one that goes over the player's shoulder like Bautista) don't look natural and don't look smooth.

So hopefully next year, we can get some better, natural looking follow throughs, as well as some more added swings, specifically a shorter 2 hand follow through, like Justin Upton, Nelson Cruz, Freddie Freeman etc. Compare the way those guys swing to a Bryce Harper swing to really see the difference.

Also for whatever reason, the game has a lot of players finishing with a one hand follow through, when you guys know they finish with 2 hands considering their signature home run swings have two handed follow through in the game. A few guys off the top of my head (from last year anyways) Buster Posey, Joey Votto, Brandon Phillips, Mike Morse, Edwin Encarnacion, Nelson Cruz etc.

[Dolenz]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Chris, Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

[CubFan23]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

I had an idea of how much went into making a game, but after watching the stream where Ramone and the boys go through the stadiums and show us everything that has to be done to make the graphics what they are and how much work must go into that, I was like..

[cusefan74]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

I had an idea of how much went into making a game, but after watching the stream where Ramone and the boys go through the stadiums and show us everything that has to be done to make the graphics what they are and how much work must go into that I was like..

Same thing for me. Once I watched that I was blown away at what they have to go through, and I have a ton of appreciation for the detail they put in the game. I have never been one to pick apart a game anyways, so personalized animations never bothered me anyways, but they are nice to see.

I would really like to say thank you to Chris_SCEA_Sports for coming in here and telling us how they make some decisions that they do for stuff like that. Hopefully people will now realize what you guys go through to make a game and not complain as much about every little thing. Especially this game, the best sports game on the market year after year.

[RandyBass]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

I think more varied body types would go a long ways towards making this game more realistic. Right now you have what? Three different body types?

In real life you see guys with broader shoulders than others, bigger/stronger legs, skinnier waists, longer limbs, etc. But in this game all players essentially look the same, just with different gear and different faces (faces which you only see those close ups which most people "x" through).

I don't know, seems like it's a small detail that would go a long ways, to make guys with unique body types actually look like their real life counterpart.

[xNeurosiis]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

It's like Ramone said in one the streams when talking about player collisions - they are pulling from a pool of resources, and sometimes it's not worth it to sacrifice some parts of the game to implement things that many others would either skip past, or rarely happen in the sport anyway (when referring to collisions).

Personally, I think the way they're handling things is just fine. Graphics and making the players feel more true-to-life are great things to enhance the immersion, but at the end of the day - to what cost?

If gameplay takes a dip on all levels because of the loud voices of a select few, MLB The Show will then become nothing more than a tech demo; something that's pretty to look at, but not all that interesting to play.

[Jimmydm90]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

It's like Ramone said in one the streams when talking about player collisions - they are pulling from a pool of resources, and sometimes it's not worth it to sacrifice some parts of the game to implement things that many others would either skip past, or rarely happen in the sport anyway (when referring to collisions).



Personally, I think the way they're handling things is just fine. Graphics and making the players feel more true-to-life are great things to enhance the immersion, but at the end of the day - to what cost?



If gameplay takes a dip on all levels because of the loud voices of a select few, MLB The Show will then become nothing more than a tech demo; something that's pretty to look at, but not all that interesting to play.

Why would gameplay get worse because they improved the visuals of the game? Sure if they took a year to focus mainly on graphical upgrades the gameplay wouldn't get much better but I don't see how it would "dip on all levels."

Most fans would agree that the gameplay is stellar (the best part of the game) and, though there are always places to improve, the gameplay would still be great even if it took a backseat for a year.

[gugleme]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

I guess everyone skips through walk-up & in between pitch animations anyway.

This.

After first game- I'm pounding the button through animations.

Immersion is important but not prioritized over gameplay in my game world.

I don't care if they are a bunch little people in dresses using broomsticks as bats-as long as it keeps its original gameplay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HozAndMoose]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

This.

After first game- I'm pounding the button through animations.

Immersion is important but not prioritized over gameplay in my game world.

I don't care if they are a bunch little people in dresses using broomsticks as bats-as long as it keeps its original gameplay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You make it a whole game longer than i do before i start. I watch 160+ real life baseball games a year. I see all that stuff i skip plenty.