Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

[nomo17k]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

Uh OH Brandon Belt just layed down a bunt for hit / rbi with 2 outs vs the dodgers last night. thAnks for coming out.

This wouldn't be an issue if CPU is simply taking advantage of surprise factor like you say Belt did. The issue is that CPU lays down bunt much more than you would expect from the kind of hitters that I uses as examples, consistently, and too often successfully.

Many people actually notices and take advantage of this bunting issues, and all these "cheesers" who constantly bunt are back online this year. (They were gone the past couple years, as bunting wasn't as successful.)

The success of bunting often depends on surprise factor, as if the defense knows it's coming, then the fielders would use bunt shift to prevent or reduce the success rate. The issue with the bunting is The Show is that it is often very automatic and mechanical, and not dynamic enough.

[NiteLordz]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

Patch would appear to fix the issue. Glad to see it truly was an issue!

"AI tuning – Bunt success rate was incorrect/too successful and accurate."

[kamackeris76]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

First bunt against me was mistimed so looking good

[HouseKeepinItReal]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

That was just an example the guy was using to help point out an issue that alot of people are having. I'm also not seeing the issue as badly as others but I do acknowledge that it does exist. I'm glad you don't see it and aren't affected by it but I don't understand why you are even posting what seems like a snide remark in a thread that you clearly aren't even involved in whatsoever. If this isn't affecting you just ignore the thread. I don't get it.

but it does affect me, you see, if people are constantly complaining about it then the devs will use their energy and resources to fix something that isn't necessarily the issue and create more issues. All I am doing is disturbing people and getting them to reconsider their argument for the sake of getting everything out on the table.

I posted the reasons why i am not having these issues and here is another one:

i use pure analog pitching, and if I am worried that the batter is going to lay down a bunt then during my pitchers wind up i can release the ball earlier and aim it off the plate so that the batter can't bunt it. I also like to tempt the hitter into a hitter's count so they feel obliged to swing.

I stay away from putting guys on 1st just to try and get a double play with a man on third and less than 2 outs. (if i do this then i deserve to get squeezed on)

I make proper defensive substitutions in late innings to make sure I have the best fielders out there!
All my infielders do infield drills in training!

The issue seems more like a fielder reaction issue as well as partly a user issue, and again, WHAT ABOUT THE SLIDERS PEOPLE ARE USING?!

online is an issue but higher difficulties deflate that strategy

bunting is easy, if i can do 4-5 times after not ever doing it in my life, EVER and with my wrong hand then it can be argued that these professional ball players know what they are doing. Give credit where credit is due.

[HouseKeepinItReal]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

This wouldn't be an issue if CPU is simply taking advantage of surprise factor like you say Belt did. The issue is that CPU lays down bunt much more than you would expect from the kind of hitters that I uses as examples, consistently, and too often successfully.

Many people actually notices and take advantage of this bunting issues, and all these "cheesers" who constantly bunt are back online this year. (They were gone the past couple years, as bunting wasn't as successful.)

The success of bunting often depends on surprise factor, as if the defense knows it's coming, then the fielders would use bunt shift to prevent or reduce the success rate. The issue with the bunting is The Show is that it is often very automatic and mechanical, and not dynamic enough.

I didn't say Belt took advantage of the surprise factor. He got a perfect pitch to bunt!

If the cpu isn't taking advantage of the surprise factor then why do they keep surprising you? Could it be you are pitching these guys predictably? perhaps never giving them a pitch they can truly hit? forcing them to avoid the double play when they also have a man on third? and your sliders?

[nomo17k]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

I didn't say Belt took advantage of the surprise factor. He got a perfect pitch to bunt!

If the cpu isn't taking advantage of the surprise factor then why do they keep surprising you? Could it be you are pitching these guys predictably? perhaps never giving them a pitch they can truly hit? forcing them to avoid the double play when they also have a man on third? and your sliders?

I think you are not understanding the issue. I'm testing A.I. via CPU vs. CPU games, so user input isn't an issue. Is it is how CPU is pitching that is an issue like you are saying, then it is an A.I. issue (which it could be, but bunting in The Show has never been that intricate, unfortunately).

Could you stop adding meaningless info to discussions by implying how you know what you are doing but we don't? We are not here to satisfy your ego.

There clearly was an issue, and that is why the game needed to be patched in the specific area.

[HouseKeepinItReal]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

I think you are not understanding the issue. I'm testing A.I. via CPU vs. CPU games, so user input isn't an issue. Is it is how CPU is pitching that is an issue like you are saying, then it is an A.I. issue (which it could be, but bunting in The Show has never been that intricate, unfortunately).

Could you stop adding meaningless info to discussions by implying how you know what you are doing but we don't? We are not here to satisfy your ego.

There clearly was an issue, and that is why the game needed to be patched in the specific area.

okay but some of the information i am providing is useful for inexperienced ball players/show players who are unlike yourself. (i've seen you around) And some of them do not know what they are doing. I am just trying to put forth a solid argument because I do not believe the success rate of bunting is the issue especially because I am not experiencing that issue but it's all over now. The patch is out.

I never addressed your CPU VS CPU or how that relates to online...

[fghvbn]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

I just played the braves and Eric Young bunted all four times he was up to bat. Was stupid! Needs to be resolved.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

but it does affect me, you see, if people are constantly complaining about it then the devs will use their energy and resources to fix something that isn't necessarily the issue and create more issues. All I am doing is disturbing people and getting them to reconsider their argument for the sake of getting everything out on the table.

I posted the reasons why i am not having these issues and here is another one:

i use pure analog pitching, and if I am worried that the batter is going to lay down a bunt then during my pitchers wind up i can release the ball earlier and aim it off the plate so that the batter can't bunt it. I also like to tempt the hitter into a hitter's count so they feel obliged to swing.

I stay away from putting guys on 1st just to try and get a double play with a man on third and less than 2 outs. (if i do this then i deserve to get squeezed on)

I make proper defensive substitutions in late innings to make sure I have the best fielders out there!
All my infielders do infield drills in training!

The issue seems more like a fielder reaction issue as well as partly a user issue, and again, WHAT ABOUT THE SLIDERS PEOPLE ARE USING?!

online is an issue but higher difficulties deflate that strategy

bunting is easy, if i can do 4-5 times after not ever doing it in my life, EVER and with my wrong hand then it can be argued that these professional ball players know what they are doing. Give credit where credit is due.

And you forgot the most important aspect....using the bunt shifts. That is not the point though. We shouldn't have to do bunt shifts for guys like Brandon Belt or guys with 0 bunt ratings. If it was so easy to do in MLB then they would work every single time but they don't. It was a problem and glad it was fixed.

Not everyone uses analog pitching either lol.

I wasn't having as much problems offline as I was online.

[HouseKeepinItReal]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

And you forgot the most important aspect....using the bunt shifts. That is not the point though. We shouldn't have to do bunt shifts for guys like Brandon Belt or guys with 0 bunt ratings. If it was so easy to do in MLB then they would work every single time but they don't. It was a problem and glad it was fixed.

Not everyone uses analog pitching either lol.

I wasn't having as much problems offline as I was online.

all i meant to do here is provide context as to how i have been so successful in avoiding this issue. Avoid is not the word, it just did not happen to me.

online bunting has always been an issue but i think it has more to do with the fielders/catchers/ and infielders who need to have more awareness and really learn to jump on those bunts. That is why they aren't as successful in the MLb not because guys can't lay one down and like i said bunting hasn't been all that successful for me in this game.

speaking of egos NOMO17K. It looks like your ego took a bit of hit when I tried to offer context and advice for how i've been successful, but I'm glad you said that. I will now refer to myself in third person as to avoid inflating my ego and we will just pretend I am talking about someone else.

[nomo17k]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

all i meant to do here is provide context as to how i have been so successful in avoiding this issue. Avoid is not the word, it just did not happen to me.

online bunting has always been an issue but i think it has more to do with the fielders/catchers/ and infielders who need to have more awareness and really learn to jump on those bunts. That is why they aren't as successful in the MLb not because guys can't lay one down and like i said bunting hasn't been all that successful for me in this game.

speaking of egos NOMO17K. It looks like your ego took a bit of hit when I tried to offer context and advice for how i've been successful, but I'm glad you said that. I will now refer to myself in third person as to avoid inflating my ego and we will just pretend I am talking about someone else.

No, I think you haven't played enough games to see the context in which you would have also seen the same issue yourself. I don't think bunting A.I. changes based on difficulty level, so none of that is really relevant.

While you make some good general points, when we are requesting the devs to look at some specific, rather obvious game balance issues. You don't have to chime in with all those comments that we are not doing things right, because that's besides the point. We are making points because some issues exist even when you are (trying to) do thing right.

[bcruise]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

FWIW - the bunting logic (success rate, apparently) has been addressed in today's patch. Going to play some now, but would love to hear some impressions from the guys who were really having problems with this.

Edit: Well, I will when it's done downloading at least...lol

[My993C2]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

all i meant to do here is provide context as to how i have been so successful in avoiding this issue. Avoid is not the word, it just did not happen to me.

Just because it does not happen to you does not mean it wasn't happening to other people. As an example there are a whole slew of people who play Quick Count games that said the problem did not exist because they never saw it in any of their games. But that's because they were playing Quick Count games. Turn off Quick Counts and the odds increase for people to see the issue. For all the CPU suicide squeeze attempts I have witnessed, none of them occurred after the count was anything like 1-1 or higher and Quick Counts never start below 1-1 counts. All the suicide squeeze I have witnessed occurred when the counts were 0-0, 1-0 or 0-1. So of course the Quick Counts people would never see the issue.

Nomo has done a lot of good for the MLB The Show community over the years for his CPU vs CPU statistical results based analysis which not only helps us understand how the CPU plays the game for slider tweaking, but his work also helps make MoM players have more enjoyable more realistic games. When time permits I also play a lot of CPU vs CPU games when I am not playing my MoM games. I just don't gather and analyze the statistics like Nomo does. So far I have only lost twice in my own MoM games because of the suicide squeezes, but trust me I have seen this issue surface a lot in the other CPU vs CPU games. I have even seen a pitch out where the catcher just held on to the ball not applying the tag on a suicide squeeze. It was nuts, if you could not stop them with a pitch out how could they be stopped? The problem was real even if many people never experienced it.

Of course in today's patch release notes, they did mention something was done to the bunting. So hopefully this problem is behind us. Time will tell.

[HouseKeepinItReal]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

I think the a.i does change their bunting strategy based on difficulty but only in my experience could i confirm this. I find the more I dominate the CPU on the mound, the more likely they are to bunt and squeeze, but even when they do turn to this strategy(which they rarely have ); I have "snuffed" it out.

so i think it has more to do with fielder awareness and they need to charge the plate quicker and that would decrease their bunting attempts, now, how to decrease their success? Well like i said the things I do have yielded great results and those results are unsuccessful bunt attempts not only by me but by the CPU.

if you wait too late to try and lay one down then it is difficult to pull back and that's where I have experienced a number of unsuccessful bunt attempts because I have not been able to pull back quick enough.

I think my snide, cocky attitude towards all this has brought out the best arguments from all of us so I am going to stick with that. I can handle looking like a complete jack off.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Bunts are such a glaring problem compared to everything else

but it does affect me, you see, if people are constantly complaining about it then the devs will use their energy and resources to fix something that isn't necessarily the issue and create more issues. All I am doing is disturbing people and getting them to reconsider their argument for the sake of getting everything out on the table.

I posted the reasons why i am not having these issues and here is another one:

i use pure analog pitching, and if I am worried that the batter is going to lay down a bunt then during my pitchers wind up i can release the ball earlier and aim it off the plate so that the batter can't bunt it. I also like to tempt the hitter into a hitter's count so they feel obliged to swing.

I stay away from putting guys on 1st just to try and get a double play with a man on third and less than 2 outs. (if i do this then i deserve to get squeezed on)

I make proper defensive substitutions in late innings to make sure I have the best fielders out there!
All my infielders do infield drills in training!

The issue seems more like a fielder reaction issue as well as partly a user issue, and again, WHAT ABOUT THE SLIDERS PEOPLE ARE USING?!

online is an issue but higher difficulties deflate that strategy

bunting is easy, if i can do 4-5 times after not ever doing it in my life, EVER and with my wrong hand then it can be argued that these professional ball players know what they are doing. Give credit where credit is due.

Got ya.
You probably should have said all this in the first place. It's hard for people to understand your intention in an Internet post and the other comment came off as rude. Glad you clarified and I see what your saying.