BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

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  • Rand
    Rookie
    • Feb 2003
    • 55

    #16
    Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

    I voted on it, but this is typically the sort of issue they wait for the next iteration to fix. I doubt this would be covered in a patch.

    Comment

    • Smallville102001
      All Star
      • Mar 2015
      • 6542

      #17
      Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

      Originally posted by bakersville123
      The homerun numbers don't look to bad actually. But that's because the HR/9 attribute of the league's top pitchers at that time look more reasonable and on par with default / original players. Whereas the H/9 attribute of the pitchers in the future are insanely high.


      Interesting so is it only the H/9 that are really high or are there more pitchers with great control or that throw like 95?

      Comment

      • bakersville123
        Rookie
        • Aug 2007
        • 211

        #18
        Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

        Originally posted by Smallville102001
        Interesting so is it only the H/9 that are really high or are there more pitchers with great control or that throw like 95?
        H/9 and k/9 are extremely high. HR/9 seems a bit high but not like the other two, and conversely HR totals seem reasonable.

        I simmed 10yrs into a new franchise last night post-patch and as expected the issue is still present. 10 yrs into the future every single team had at least two SP's over 90. Most had 3. Some had 4 or even 5. It's silly.

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        • sljivo
          Rookie
          • Apr 2015
          • 51

          #19
          Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

          Originally posted by Smallville102001
          Interesting so is it only the H/9 that are really high or are there more pitchers with great control or that throw like 95?
          Im in 2025 and the majority of pitchers throw 95+. Its really stupid. This wouldnt bother me as much except that hits per 9 is out of control. The batting champion bats under .300. That hasnt happened since...

          The pitcher progression is absurd. For gamers who want realism in franchise mode, the show doesnt offer it.

          Comment

          • sljivo
            Rookie
            • Apr 2015
            • 51

            #20
            Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

            Originally posted by MLB Bob
            heres my strategy, I run 30 team control, I dont draft for the other 30 teams, but I sign the draftees for all teams. that way I can control who comes into the league. Some teams will sign 2-3 guys of the 5-7 drafted some teams get none, some 1 or 2 blue chippers.
            Thats an interesting strategy. And what are the results? It seems like certain positions would become depleted if you dont replace retirees with rookies. Wouldnt the league run out of players?

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            • sljivo
              Rookie
              • Apr 2015
              • 51

              #21
              Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

              Bu the way, i must add that i play without injuries. Maybe thats why every pitcher progressed like crazy.

              Dangit, maybe thats it. Cant progress if hurt, right?

              Comment

              • MLB Bob
                MVP
                • Jan 2011
                • 1008

                #22
                Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                Originally posted by sljivo
                Thats an interesting strategy. And what are the results? It seems like certain positions would become depleted if you dont replace retirees with rookies. Wouldnt the league run out of players?

                So the issue is too many good players. And players only retire if theres no jobs for them because theyre taken by higher rated players making the market top heavy. by doing this and artificially keeping the league from turning into a super league things work out well and top prospects and high potential players become true premium talent and advantages to the teams that have them.

                Comment

                • Smallville102001
                  All Star
                  • Mar 2015
                  • 6542

                  #23
                  Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                  Originally posted by sljivo
                  Im in 2025 and the majority of pitchers throw 95+. Its really stupid. This wouldnt bother me as much except that hits per 9 is out of control. The batting champion bats under .300. That hasnt happened since...

                  The pitcher progression is absurd. For gamers who want realism in franchise mode, the show doesnt offer it.


                  While really ever sports game as a big problem in franchise mode now days witch is sad. With year to year saves this is a bigger issue then in the past though.

                  Comment

                  • JTommy67
                    Pro
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 598

                    #24
                    Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                    Yeah someone pointed out that they may have overcorrected a problem with not enough higher potential pitchers from a few years ago.

                    I would be in favor of some kind of sim engine sliders and also sliders to adjust draft class parameters. Sim engine sliders would simply make global adjustments to pitcher (and some batter) ratings for simulated games.

                    A draft class global editor could give you an analysis screen where it gives you averages for potentials and other ratings for pitchers and position players, and you could simply knock down potential a few clicks or push up another rating as you wish, then it would apply a global edit to all incoming rookies.

                    It'd be fairly easy for us to figure out where we should set things, and this problem could be alleviated to some extent.

                    Comment

                    • Garrett59
                      Rookie
                      • Apr 2013
                      • 160

                      #25
                      Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                      Originally posted by bakersville123
                      I was running some sim tests last night starting multiple franchises using the 'current' roster option and I noticed that Batting Average and Hit totals drop off a cliff right around the time the original players age and are replaced by generated rookies. Approximately 8+ years or so into a franchise.

                      The batting champions where in some cases .296. Most seasons after 8-9 seasons, there is only 1 or 2 people batting .300 or a bit better.

                      Also, the hit leaders totals drop off as well with the league leaders around 175, a direct correlation to the drop in BA IMO.

                      I will actually document some metrics tonight as I plan on re-siming several franchises to repeat the process. But what I did last night produced this summary:

                      -BA/Hit totals look great for the first 6-8 years of a new franchise. Generally 10-15 players over .300 every year and batting champions are typically .325 or higher.

                      -League leaders in Hits are right around 200, if not a bit higher for first 6-8 years

                      Then, as computer generated players make their way to the big leagues a decrease in BA/Hits is observed. Consistently.

                      What I noticed with pitching is that after the first year of a new franchise the league leaders in ERA have a H/9 rating somewhere in the low 70's on average.

                      After 10+ seasons however, the ERA leaders (by this time generated players) have a H/9 average of close to 90+.

                      Seems to me that the H/9 attributes for generated pitchers is getting out of control as the franchise progresses.

                      One thought (if this isn't patched and corrected) is that you can edit incoming rookie pitchers manually one by one. I'm relatively new to the Show, so I'm not sure that this is the only option or not. Also, I don't see a way to edit the potential H/9 attribute; only the current, which is typically low for a rookie.

                      What I'll try doing is dropping the rookie pitchers H/9 by 20%. Does anyone know of a way this can be done globally? I'm guessing not.
                      Did you post this sim on Reddit? Cause I had seem someone do an 8 year sim and I believe Miggie (dudes a beast) won the batting title at 296 in the 8th year. imo this regression in the show replicates what is happening in baseball nowadays with pitcher and pitchers becoming more dominant. This is why I don't have a problem with lower offensive stats, because baseball has and is still trending in that direction.

                      Comment

                      • bobloblah1980
                        Rookie
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 459

                        #26
                        Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                        Originally posted by sljivo
                        Im in 2025 and the majority of pitchers throw 95+. Its really stupid. This wouldnt bother me as much except that hits per 9 is out of control. The batting champion bats under .300. That hasnt happened since...

                        The pitcher progression is absurd. For gamers who want realism in franchise mode, the show doesnt offer it.
                        Yessir I am in 2021, pretty much every pitcher can throw 99 now even guys that are in the league for 10 plus years and I have resorted to editing their velo down and no one in my franchise has a potential over 96
                        MLB The Show Hybrid Roster Contributor

                        Comment

                        • bakersville123
                          Rookie
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 211

                          #27
                          Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                          Originally posted by JTommy67
                          Yeah someone pointed out that they may have overcorrected a problem with not enough higher potential pitchers from a few years ago.

                          I would be in favor of some kind of sim engine sliders and also sliders to adjust draft class parameters. Sim engine sliders would simply make global adjustments to pitcher (and some batter) ratings for simulated games.

                          A draft class global editor could give you an analysis screen where it gives you averages for potentials and other ratings for pitchers and position players, and you could simply knock down potential a few clicks or push up another rating as you wish, then it would apply a global edit to all incoming rookies.

                          It'd be fairly easy for us to figure out where we should set things, and this problem could be alleviated to some extent.
                          While thankful that SCEA included the ability to manually edit Potential ratings in franchise, I agree with the above post that a global attribute editor and/or draft class sliders that could control quality of incoming players would be fantastic.

                          As observed even in this thread, opinions vary. Some don't mind the low offensive outputs, some take exception.

                          For me, the issue isn't the low offensive output; that is a symptom. The root cause is the unbalanced player progression for generated draftees. It is frustrating because this would seem like a reasonably simple tuning opportunity for SCEA to make. I have not seen any confirmation from them that they acknowledge that there is a problem, however I did submit a bug report.

                          In the meantime, the only recourse I have is to manually edit every incoming drafted pitcher who is signed to a team. I just loose all desire to play the game if every team has 3-5 90+ overall pitchers a few years down the road in franchise. No fun for me to have a league saturated with Superstars.

                          Comment

                          • NDAlum
                            ND
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 11453

                            #28
                            Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                            Thanks for doing the research guys!

                            Looks like I'll have to make some edits before each new season to balance out this stuff.
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                            Comment

                            • sljivo
                              Rookie
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 51

                              #29
                              Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                              So far, editing the top prospects in drafts seem to be the best solution. Taking 10 points off their potentials seems like it might prevent an oversaturation of talent at pitcher.

                              One thing that bothers me is that even if we nerf potentials, low rated players with B potentials might change to A potentials if they do well in the minors. This keeps happening to me and often, I might add. I started a Royals franchise recently and within 2 months of opening day, 3 pitchers jumped potentials. 1 A and 2 B's.

                              I guess its still better than with the sim engine. I think the players jumpin to higher potentials wouldnt be as much of an issue if more players decreased potentials. For every 3 playe that increases potential to an A, there is one that decreases from a B to a C. Hence, the league becomes saturated with roger clemens type players.

                              Can someone let me know what effect extensive injuries have on player progression? Do players progress steadily if they are hurt fo like 2 months or more?

                              Comment

                              • bobloblah1980
                                Rookie
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 459

                                #30
                                Re: BA/Hits drop off cliff simming 8+ seasons into Franchise

                                Originally posted by sljivo
                                Can someone let me know what effect extensive injuries have on player progression? Do players progress steadily if they are hurt fo like 2 months or more?
                                So far from what I have seen it works like the old A ball demotion glitch.. if the player is hot when they get DL'd they are permanently hot until taken off the DL and vice versa for cold streaks.. so Hot= possible upgrade in potential and cold= possible down grade.

                                Same goes for minor leaguers that aren't on the 40 man when their season ends and the mlb season and playoffs are on
                                MLB The Show Hybrid Roster Contributor

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