With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

[Padgoi]

Clearly this year's iteration is a vast improvement from last season, what with improved graphics and shadows, outfield ball routes, pitches being easier and more realistic to distinguish, and countless other improvements. However, with everything they've improved, there's still so many gameplay "issues" that haven't been tweaked that really need to be for next year. Please feel free to add to this list or comment on the things I do list because, in my opinion, these things really make the gameplay not as simulation as they'd like to have you believe:

- Bunting - even with the patch, bunting is still way too easy and way too successful. I'm still averaging at least a bunt single with people like Ellsbury and Gardner at least every other attempt and let's face it, bunting for a single 50% of the time is simply not realistic at all.

- Meter Randomness - I love the meter, but the randomness of where the pitch lands is frustrating. I can miss the meter high or low and the location where the pitch goes is completely random. If you miss the meter low, the pitch should go low.

- Pitch Speeds - every pitcher doesn't have a 17-mph difference between their fastball and their changeup. I know they do this intentionally to make the user feel the difference, but it's not realistic at all.

- Ground Balls Hitting the Pitcher - I'd say 50% or more of the ground balls hit up the middle deflect off the pitcher whereas in real life it's probably about 3%. Heck, in real life, most pitchers try to get out of the way to avoid being hit. In this game, they try to get hit knowing they're all made of steel and can knock the ball down without blinking.

- The Mysterious Shrinking Strike Zone - constantly leading to big, late-inning rallies. Maybe I'm imagining this . . . but I really doubt it.

- Olay Grounders - this will be the bane of me, I swear. Runner on first, no outs. Routine grounder towards the hole that almost EVERY first basemen will at least knock down to get one out and probably turn a simple double play on. So why do my corner infielders constantly (yes, constantly as in multiple times per game) olay these grounders into singles? They literally get their glove down, but the absolutely ridiculous animation occurs where the fielder olays the ball, going from an easy DP to a first-to-third single. And it seems to happen at convenient times, but that part may be my imagination or frustration.

- The high strike zone - I watch baseball regularly. Pitches at the letters are almost never called strikes anymore. I understand the strike zone is "supposed" to go from letters to knees, but it doesn't. Not anymore. Let's try updating the strike zone to what it actually is now.

- Wild Pitches - wild pitches occur. Not every game. And rarely on pitches right down the middle.

[HypoLuxa13]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

I agree with pretty much all of what you posted here, definitely could stand some improvement on these things (especially bunting, pitchers getting hit by balls up the middle, and corner infielders just missing balls easily in their range , both Ole grounders and liners that go right past their head where the animation that kicks in causes them to miss).

However, I'm thinking there will be an "Official" thread at some point for this? Not sure if Ramone's "Top 3" thread counts for listing gameplay improvements specifically?

[gocubsgo]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

Clearly this year's iteration is a vast improvement from last season, what with improved graphics and shadows, outfield ball routes, pitches being easier and more realistic to distinguish, and countless other improvements. However, with everything they've improved, there's still so many gameplay "issues" that haven't been tweaked that really need to be for next year. Please feel free to add to this list or comment on the things I do list because, in my opinion, these things really make the gameplay not as simulation as they'd like to have you believe:

- Bunting - even with the patch, bunting is still way too easy and way too successful. I'm still averaging at least a bunt single with people like Ellsbury and Gardner at least every other attempt and let's face it, bunting for a single 50% of the time is simply not realistic at all.

- Meter Randomness - I love the meter, but the randomness of where the pitch lands is frustrating. I can miss the meter high or low and the location where the pitch goes is completely random. If you miss the meter low, the pitch should go low.

- Pitch Speeds - every pitcher doesn't have a 17-mph difference between their fastball and their changeup. I know they do this intentionally to make the user feel the difference, but it's not realistic at all.

- Ground Balls Hitting the Pitcher - I'd say 50% or more of the ground balls hit up the middle deflect off the pitcher whereas in real life it's probably about 3%. Heck, in real life, most pitchers try to get out of the way to avoid being hit. In this game, they try to get hit knowing they're all made of steel and can knock the ball down without blinking.

- The Mysterious Shrinking Strike Zone - constantly leading to big, late-inning rallies. Maybe I'm imagining this . . . but I really doubt it.

- Olay Grounders - this will be the bane of me, I swear. Runner on first, no outs. Routine grounder towards the hole that almost EVERY first basemen will at least knock down to get one out and probably turn a simple double play on. So why do my corner infielders constantly (yes, constantly as in multiple times per game) olay these grounders into singles? They literally get their glove down, but the absolutely ridiculous animation occurs where the fielder olays the ball, going from an easy DP to a first-to-third single. And it seems to happen at convenient times, but that part may be my imagination or frustration.

- The high strike zone - I watch baseball regularly. Pitches at the letters are almost never called strikes anymore. I understand the strike zone is "supposed" to go from letters to knees, but it doesn't. Not anymore. Let's try updating the strike zone to what it actually is now.

- Wild Pitches - wild pitches occur. Not every game. And rarely on pitches right down the middle.

Couldnt say it better myself, I salute you Sir.

[Russell_SCEA]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

- Bunting - even with the patch, bunting is still way too easy and way too successful. I'm still averaging at least a bunt single with people like Ellsbury and Gardner at least every other attempt and let's face it, bunting for a single 50% of the time is simply not realistic at all.

Being tuned in the next patch

- Meter Randomness - I love the meter, but the randomness of where the pitch lands is frustrating. I can miss the meter high or low and the location where the pitch goes is completely random. If you miss the meter low, the pitch should go low.

The meter is more random when you miss this year than previous years and more accurate when your accurate this is done by design.

- Pitch Speeds - every pitcher doesn't have a 17-mph difference between their fastball and their changeup. I know they do this intentionally to make the user feel the difference, but it's not realistic at all.

Names of the pitchers please?

- The Mysterious Shrinking Strike Zone - constantly leading to big, late-inning rallies. Maybe I'm imagining this . . . but I really doubt it.

Placebo it's not magically shrinking in game.

- The high strike zone - I watch baseball regularly. Pitches at the letters are almost never called strikes anymore. I understand the strike zone is "supposed" to go from letters to knees, but it doesn't. Not anymore. Let's try updating the strike zone to what it actually is now.

I'll bring this up with B Ma but without some serious data I doubt he's going to change it.

- Wild Pitches - wild pitches occur. Not every game. And rarely on pitches right down the middle.

I have no idea what your referring to.

[JayD]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

Ramone, I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I still have not seen the cpu take an extra step when leading off. I read somewhere in the patch notes that lead off logic was improved yet I see no difference than it was pre patch. Could you elaborate on this?

[Steven78]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

I think on wild pitches its the stupid "catcher completely misses it" scenario which is way too prevalent.

[Padgoi]

With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn'...

Being tuned in the next patch

Hopefully this fixes the issue.

The meter is more random when you miss this year than previous years and more accurate when your accurate this is done by design.

But this takes control out of the user's hands and simply allows for more questionable occurrences. In other words, having the pitch go anywhere randomly can simply be another way of generating offense by conveniently having the pitch drift down the middle. The location of the pitch should be based on where on the meter I hit, like Links golf used to do. I want to control where my pitch goes based on my skill level, not based on where the game decides the pitch should go.

Names of the pitchers please?

Too many to name, dude. Look at some of the other topics on the forum regarding change ups and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about if you don't already. The disparity between fastball and off speed should be 5-10 mph, not 10-20.

Placebo it's not magically shrinking in game.

If you say so. I tend to believe my own experiences, but if you say it's not, I'll assume you're not yanking my chain.

Actually, come to think of it, I agree, it's probably not shrinking anymore. Now that the pitch meter is completely random, it allows for conveniently placed pitches to be smacked around or pitches to float out of the strike zone in order to manufacture rallies. And seeing as the meter is impossible to perfectly time every single pitch, once again, this takes control out of the user's hands and allows the game to determine where pitches go, which is why people will always have issues with late-inning comebacks. Taking control out of the user's hands and having pitches go to any random location allows for rallies that the user cannot control unless they can time the meter perfectly every pitch.

Put simply, if I aim low and miss the meter early, the pitch should stray down the middle, allowing for more solid contact. Likewise if I aim low and miss the meter late, the pitch should be in the dirt. And if I aim high or down the middle and miss the meter early, the pitch should go higher than I wanted. At least this way I can blame myself for rallies and walks as opposed to relying on random game pitch placement. Less user control = more reason for users to believe that the game is dictating results.

I'll bring this up with B Ma but without some serious data I doubt he's going to change it.

It's not easy for a user to obtain data like this. B Ma can watch the games himself and see what I'm talking about (and I'm sure most people on the forum will agree). In order to call your product a simulation, you must be willing to do the research and not request the client base do so. The strike zone hasn't been called at the letters in a few years now.

I have no idea what your referring to.

As another user said after your reply, it's not so much wild pitches as much as asinine catchers allowing Broadway pitches to be passed balls. I'll see if I can get video of this one.

[Woodweaver]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

I think on wild pitches its the stupid "catcher completely misses it" scenario which is way too prevalent.

Are you talking about a passed ball?

[CujoMatty]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

Alot of your points frustrate me too but it also adds to the randomness which I enjoy.

Bunting one million percent agree but I have no doubt it will be fixed.

Meter randomness doesn't really bug me but i do like the thought that if you miss low the pitch goes low. Seems more realistic to me.

I disagree with your view on change ups. I like the fact that if I get fooled on a change up I really get fooled on a change up.

The Olay animation frustrates me too but I do like that stuff like that happens and everything isn't just happening routinely. It could probably use a little tweaking Though.

ground balls hitting the pitcher. This is the second biggest complaint after bunt success. It's really not implemented well at all imo. Way too frequent for one and also the outcomes can be just dumb sometimes. I've had a slow liner nearly flatline my pitcher and I've had screamers that nail my pitcher in the face and he acts like it was nothing and completes the play.

The strike zone calls seems very random to me and not just in important late game situations. I actually really enjoy how they implented it.

I agree with your point on the high strike zone. I constantly see high strikes called in the show that never get called in real life.

i too am not sure what you mean by wild pitches. I get a realistic amount and since the patch I haven't seen any of the complete whiffs by the catcher on pitches in the strike zone.

I would add that the tagging system still needs work. Its definetly better post patch but still not good enough. I had posted a video yesterday in the missed tag thread of the fielder morphing thru the runner and not getting an out. In the same game I had the runner at home by a mile and my catcher swiped to early and he was safe costing me the game.

[Speedy]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/rules_interest.jsp

<dt id="2.00" class="first">Rule 2.00: The Strike Zone

</dt>The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

For rule changes the past 30 years:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/strike_zone.jsp

1996 - The Strike Zone is expanded on the lower end, moving from the top of the knees to the bottom of the knees.

1988 - The Strike Zone is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the top of the knees. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball."

...so, while most umpires don't call the letter-high strike, it's still in the rule book as a strike. SCEA's implementation of the strike zone is correct according to MLB policy (which they likely cannot deviate from), regardless of whether it truly duplicates real life. I agree with you P.A.D. but nothing SCEA can really do on this standpoint (I don't think at least).

[Padgoi]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

Regarding the strike zone (SCEA should comply to MLB rules, regardless of real life results):

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/rules_interest.jsp

For rule changes the past 30 years:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info...trike_zone.jsp

We agree to disagree. The strike zone simply isn't called that way anymore and hasn't been for some time. In order to recreate a simulation baseball game, you must go by what happens, not by what's "supposed" to happen.

[Padgoi]

With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn'...

Meter randomness doesn't really bug me but i do like the thought that if you miss low the pitch goes low. Seems more realistic to me.

I'm quoting from my earlier reply because I edited it and think I worded this more clear.

Put simply, if I aim low and miss the meter early, the pitch should stray down the middle, allowing for more solid contact. Likewise if I aim low and miss the meter late, the pitch should be in the dirt. And if I aim high or down the middle and miss the meter early, the pitch should go higher than I wanted. At least this way I can blame myself for rallies and walks as opposed to relying on random game pitch placement. Less user control = more reason for users to believe that the game is dictating results. I want to feel like my ability to call and execute pitches is what's winning and losing games. Having the game randomly decide where the pitch goes simply adds fuel to the old "comeback logic" debate. I want to decide where my pitches go based on my feedback so I can blame myself for losses and not computer randomness dictating it's time for the computer to generate a rally.

[Speedy]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

We agree to disagree. The strike zone simply isn't called that way anymore and hasn't been for some time. In order to recreate a simulation baseball game, you must go by what happens, not by what's "supposed" to happen.

I can't speak for SCEA but I would doubt they could keep MLB's license if they deviate any from the rulebook; MLB likely would view any variance as an integrity of the game issue.

I'm not disagreeing with you but rather stating that I believe SCEA's hands are tied.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

Add me to the chorus of please fix hits up the middle hitting the pitcher. I feel like it happens a little more often than once a game to a borderline average of twice. It's been like this for a couple years now.

I'm not really sure what the precise problem is, but sometimes it feels like the contact that results in these grounders should instead cause a ball in the air flared into shallow center. Pure conjecture on my part though.

[QuestGAV]

Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...

Names of the pitchers please?

Tyler Matzek
Brian Schlitter
Eddie Butler
Scott Elbert
Jason Garcia
Shaun Marcum
Shane Greene
RJ Alvarez
Michael Pineda
Aaron Sanchez
Kendall Graveman
Roenis Elias
Dominic Leone
Rafael Montero
Mario Hollands
Neil Ramirez
Jason Marquis
Matt Reynolds
David Carpenter
Jeff Francis
Scott Carroll
Yohan Pino
Blaine Boyer
Nick Tropeano
Brad Hand
Jacob DeGrom
Tyler Thornburg
Radhames Liz
Robbie Ray
Kevin Quackenbush

All have changeups that are at least 6 and up to 11 MPH slower in game than their real life change. For example, Matzek it turns a relatively mediocre changeup that's 4 MPH slower than his FB into a 15 MPH differential -it's really tough to hit. Pineda goes from 7 to 14. Instead of pulling a changeup foul when I guess wrong it's a swing & miss or tapper over the plate. I don't mind trading some realism for gameplay but these changes seem overdone and inconsistently applied if they were intentional. Interestingly, the only guy in The Show whose changeup is significantly faster than it should be is Mike Morin of the Angels. Not sure why he got left behind. Traded for him in franchise because I felt bad for him.

Looks like Tanaka lost his ridiculous changeup from the default rosters in one of the live updates, thanks for that. There might be another guy or two up there that had their changeup made a bit more realistic but the other ones I checked are still there.