Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

[Padgoi]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

What's the point of debating anything that can't be proven factually? Debating.

[KBLover]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Very interesting and good piece of analytics. Clearly I need to increase my pitcher control slider because at 3, there are just too many pitches going astray from where I'm aiming, resulting in harder hit balls (as evidenced by your graph). Unfortunately this graph only takes batting average vs. deep strikes into consideration and not the other main point of this debate, which is the "funky" things that go on many times during these rallies that cause the rallies to actually become rallies.

Thing is if you can hit better locations, the less likely "funky" things happen or the less damage the "funky" things end up doing.

I mean if my pitchers don't hang stuff or miss down the middle often, that will lower the chances of the enemy hitters getting those good, hard-hit balls, which seems to have a lot of impact on how well fielders field them, etc.

So if "funkiness" puts two runners on, but I'm still hitting the corners, trying to inducing chasing, good use of max effort, etc, and it works out (I'm on Classic so I don't have total control), then the "funk" nets them little or nothing.

The "funkiness", "good luck", "bad karma" or whatever else can't keep up if its low probability, which you make happen by locating well, as nomo's data shows. Might not "even out" that game, but it will tend to over the 1000s of BF you'll have in a season across all your pitchers.

I'll take my chances by not having .400 BABIP hits against me and work on more .200 BABIP. 20% is not 0% so it can (and will) happen, but sports is about mitigating opposing chances, do that and you're doing things right. The rest of round ball hitting round bat and the quirks that can happen as a result.

This is even more so true of The Show, imo, considering it's RNG-based and not pure physics like actual baseball. Physics doesn't understand "evening out" (F = ma all day everyday, dictating the physics that pertains to sports is dictating inputs, not variable outputs, and skill in sports is the ability of the player to dictate his part of the input) but probability tends to, if given enough time, since that deals with variable outputs even given the exact same inputs.

So using the data Nomo showed tells you how to combat the "funkiness" that can continue rallies and the damage done by them, even if it doesn't prevent the "funkiness" (and the start of the rally) in the first place.

[Padgoi]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Thanks KB. I've raised my pitcher control sliders. Hopefully this mitigates some of the wonkiness I have been rambling on about.

[KBLover]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

It should, especially if you're on Classic, since that's literally almost all RNG. You set the pitch, where the pitcher aims to start the pitch, max effort or not, and that's it.

So sliders should really help along with your team composition of course. It's one reason why low BB/9 and/or Control pitchers better be damn good and be willing to accept the inconsistency of them at times.

Oh and don't forget Clutch ratings. Clutch impacts how players do with runners on. Sometimes I notice my young pitchers falling apart when things start going against them...almost always its guys with 40-60 Clutch ratings, especially if the other team has higher Clutch. I REFUSE outright REFUSE to use relievers with less than 70 clutch. Period.

Watch your K/9 ratings too. K/9 widens or narrows the window so a miss might become a "funky hit" on weak contact. Of course, baseball being baseball, a routine out might turn into a hit for the same reason a bad contact would turn into a miss.

Beauty of the game, though!

[saucerset]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I just wanted to make one last comment on this thread. Through all of this I have become a better player at the game due to all the people who have commented on this thread. I feel I am more attentive to the little things in this game that make it great. So some may roll their eyes that another thread like this exists, but if it helps just one person get more enjoyment out of the game then I see it as a positive.

Thank you to all that have posted in this thread and that have shared their knowledge and experience.

Cheers!

[agentlaw13]

Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Feel like chiming in here...I have played this series for years and I kinda know what the OP is talking about. With that being said, I think the majority here that have posted in the thread AND myself would say "hey, that's baseball for you." It is extremely "wonky" at times and I feel situations like those mentioned by the OP play out in real life more often than not (see SLAB's post above)
I go through slumps like crazy with batting and pitching in this game. Does it drive me crazy? Yes. But I recognize it is part of real life baseball and I think it is replicated well in this game. Plus it makes it more challenging and fun for me. I think a large part of what causes this is momentum swings late in games due to a number of factors mainly from when the user is pitching/fielding:
-Bullpen/game management by user (I feel this is the most important)
-Specific pitch strategy to each batter dependent upon runner situation
-Defensive subs to try to prevent errors
-Defensive alignment
1 error here, 1 bad placed pitch there and you can go from winning to being down numerous runs pretty quick. I'm sure there are a few others that could be mentioned. From everything I have read from the OP in this thread, I think if you pay more attention to these things in the later innings of your games, you have the OPPORTUNITY to be successful. But remember, it's baseball, and you aren't gonna get every bounce and you sure as hell aren't gonna get every win. And there will be slumps. Just like my 6 game slide that I am on right now in my Pirates franchise. Thanks a lot, faux Clint Hurdle [emoji12]



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[xzcfhxcgh]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I just threw my first no hitter ever. Rubberband ai would not allow that.

[MLB Bob]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

What I dont get with this conversation is the "how" it happens argument. Errors late in the game. Batters getting hits. Animations causing "issues. User feeling like they are not in control.

When is it ok for a fielder to have an error? only when the other team didnt score the inning before? The first 3 innings? Errors are going to happen and they are going to affect the game more so in later innings. It happens on a nightly basis.

Poor hitters getting late heroic hits? Home runs for come from behind wins. Pitchers melting down? If none of these things ever happened poor hitters would be batting .000 or only get hits in the first 3 innings. Home runs only in the first half the game...game would be decided by the 4th. The ratings and numbers we look at are averages. A bad hitter gets a hit 22% of the time. If he gets a hit after going 0/3 hes due. If he happens to get a late heroic hit he probably go 0/3 the next day or worse. Pitchers have h/9, hr/9 because games are 9 innings..things happen late in the game, every player has a clutch rating because they will react differently in high leverage situations.

Defense is no different. A gold glove fielder will make errors. Whether you want a fielder to make a mistake or not, theres not a lot input a gamer can do. Preload a throw, get near the mark whatever, but the players still have ratings and errors will happen to every player even if they did everything right. Theres no way to duplicate a player losing a ball in the lights or the sun to a gamer. Or slip on grass or have a bad grip on a ball or throw on the run and mis judge it. We have a button input and some basic control of the fielders movement. How do the devs give full control to a gamer without having "canned animations" that get triggered randomly (more so when player isnt in position or set")?

I dont see any of this as rubber banding or comeback code. I use to think the same thing. In the old days I played RTTS exclusively. I use to reset and replay the same game over and over to get a desired outcome (more points, less K's, hit streak) and found I would get similar or same results replaying the same game over again. I dont find that happen as much now. I use to see games go into extra innings just to see my RTTS player get up again...that being said, I didnt see this stuff happening in franchise or regular games.

[bspring3]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

What I dont get with this conversation is the "how" it happens argument. Errors late in the game. Batters getting hits. Animations causing "issues. User feeling like they are not in control.

When is it ok for a fielder to have an error? only when the other team didnt score the inning before? The first 3 innings? Errors are going to happen and they are going to affect the game more so in later innings. It happens on a nightly basis.

Poor hitters getting late heroic hits? Home runs for come from behind wins. Pitchers melting down? If none of these things ever happened poor hitters would be batting .000 or only get hits in the first 3 innings. Home runs only in the first half the game...game would be decided by the 4th. The ratings and numbers we look at are averages. A bad hitter gets a hit 22% of the time. If he gets a hit after going 0/3 hes due. If he happens to get a late heroic hit he probably go 0/3 the next day or worse. Pitchers have h/9, hr/9 because games are 9 innings..things happen late in the game, every player has a clutch rating because they will react differently in high leverage situations.

Defense is no different. A gold glove fielder will make errors. Whether you want a fielder to make a mistake or not, theres not a lot input a gamer can do. Preload a throw, get near the mark whatever, but the players still have ratings and errors will happen to every player even if they did everything right. Theres no way to duplicate a player losing a ball in the lights or the sun to a gamer. Or slip on grass or have a bad grip on a ball or throw on the run and mis judge it. We have a button input and some basic control of the fielders movement. How do the devs give full control to a gamer without having "canned animations" that get triggered randomly (more so when player isnt in position or set")?

I dont see any of this as rubber banding or comeback code. I use to think the same thing. In the old days I played RTTS exclusively. I use to reset and replay the same game over and over to get a desired outcome (more points, less K's, hit streak) and found I would get similar or same results replaying the same game over again. I dont find that happen as much now. I use to see games go into extra innings just to see my RTTS player get up again...that being said, I didnt see this stuff happening in franchise or regular games.

I could not have said it better myself. It comes down to two schools of thought. Having the maximum amount of input and control by the user on one side and the other side that enjoys the randomness that ratings bring into the game. It sounds like to me that those from the first school of thought want ultimate control and do not enjoy when the game "decides what will happen" which to me is simply ratings playing their part in the game and bringing about these wonky things the OP has mentioned. Neither side plays or enjoys the game wrong but both sides have to realize the limitations that the game offers with their chosen play style.


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[Speedy]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Spoiler

What I dont get with this conversation is the "how" it happens argument. Errors late in the game. Batters getting hits. Animations causing "issues. User feeling like they are not in control.

When is it ok for a fielder to have an error? only when the other team didnt score the inning before? The first 3 innings? Errors are going to happen and they are going to affect the game more so in later innings. It happens on a nightly basis.

Poor hitters getting late heroic hits? Home runs for come from behind wins. Pitchers melting down? If none of these things ever happened poor hitters would be batting .000 or only get hits in the first 3 innings. Home runs only in the first half the game...game would be decided by the 4th. The ratings and numbers we look at are averages. A bad hitter gets a hit 22% of the time. If he gets a hit after going 0/3 hes due. If he happens to get a late heroic hit he probably go 0/3 the next day or worse. Pitchers have h/9, hr/9 because games are 9 innings..things happen late in the game, every player has a clutch rating because they will react differently in high leverage situations.

Defense is no different. A gold glove fielder will make errors. Whether you want a fielder to make a mistake or not, theres not a lot input a gamer can do. Preload a throw, get near the mark whatever, but the players still have ratings and errors will happen to every player even if they did everything right. Theres no way to duplicate a player losing a ball in the lights or the sun to a gamer. Or slip on grass or have a bad grip on a ball or throw on the run and mis judge it. We have a button input and some basic control of the fielders movement. How do the devs give full control to a gamer without having "canned animations" that get triggered randomly (more so when player isnt in position or set")?

I dont see any of this as rubber banding or comeback code. I use to think the same thing. In the old days I played RTTS exclusively. I use to reset and replay the same game over and over to get a desired outcome (more points, less K's, hit streak) and found I would get similar or same results replaying the same game over again. I dont find that happen as much now. I use to see games go into extra innings just to see my RTTS player get up again...that being said, I didnt see this stuff happening in franchise or regular games.

Haha...at the bottom where it says who likes your post, all I see is "OS likes this".

Looks like you have the blessing of the entire site.

[NEOPARADIGM]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Just put up a 6-run 7th.

Not particularly on-topic but kinda sorta is.

Feels good man.

[zcghxh]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I was going to ask if you're falling into a pitching pattern, but you are using quick counts. Typically that is what happens to people as the game goes along they tend to stick with what works, which is the right mentality until it doesn't work anymore.

[Spokker]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Again, I don't think there is rubber band AI, but San Diego Studio did not do themselves any favor by making the penalty for not hitting the pitch meter exactly more severe. If you hit that line right on, you're practically unhittable, but if you don't hit it, your pitch is often nowhere near where you aimed. It does make the user feel as if they are not in control.

I feel the penalty should be proportional to how much you missed. If you're right next to the line but not exactly, the penalty shouldn't be so large.

[Wolverines05]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I feel the penalty should be proportional to how much you missed. If you're right next to the line but not exactly, the penalty shouldn't be so large.

It is proportional though..

[Spokker]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

It is proportional though..

I think I used the wrong word. This is what Russell said anyway.

The meter is more random when you miss this year than previous years and more accurate when your accurate this is done by design.