Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

[saucerset]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Do people see it as an overall game change or just when the user is pitching? I played a franchise game earlier where I bumped up the hitting to Legend and I still had a 2-2 game in the 9th for the 5th straight game. I know it's only one game but it didn't feel like there was a change in overall gameplay by moving the difficulty up to the highest level. I didn't see any spectacular defensive plays that would have made me think I was at a higher level.

I have been playing on dynamic and since my hitting is horrible I stay between veteran and AS. Bumping the hitting up and both teams had 9 hits and 2 runs. It was about the same as the last game I played on dynamic.

Might be interesting to test hitting on a low level to create more offense and keep pitching on a high level for a few games to see if the CPU tends to keep up in the stats column. People keep saying that it happens on the higher levels more often but the difficulty settings are independent from each other. Then it would be safe to say that if there was some sort of logic in the program then it would be active when the user is pitching at HOF or higher.

[Speedy]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I'm not looking for an argument, good sir. I'm honestly looking for ways to alleviate this distrust I have in the game. I've tried so many things to stop these rallies, but it's gotten very frustrating over the years and I apologize if you feel my responses are condescending as I am not going for that. I am simply looking for ways to alleviate these issues I'm experiencing on higher difficulties.

I agree with CB, man...anybody trying to help, you continually refute.

Have you tried any of the suggestions that Nomo or others have suggested? You state AS is way too easy and you never lose a game but continually get beat on HOF level...how much have you adjusted your sliders (and which ones) beyond a couple of games but more like 10-15 games?

What about your thought process? What have you changed and tried doing differently to truly get a different result?

[Spokker]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

The developer claims there is not one line of comeback code in the game.

Whatever the game is doing, however, I've been the victim and the beneficiary of it. I can show you video of me coming back and video of the CPU coming back.

I don't think there is any rubberband AI during gameplay itself, but I do believe that there is some mechanism to make teams hot/cold during franchise (my speculation). However, all those attributes, in my opinion, seem to be set before the first pitch.

I mean, I have had games where I've gotten green contact all game long and got shutout. I've had games where I was swinging at horrible pitches and won by 4 on bloopers and errors.

[nomo17k]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

With all due respect, why on earth would I voice my frustrations simply as an avenue to vent? Isn't it common sense that I want the developers of the game to improve on the way rallies and offense are generated on the higher levels? Clearly I am not the only one seeing this issue as MANY others have suggested this as well, so perhaps instead of telling us that something is or isn't coded into the game simply because someone tells you it isn't, perhaps you should try digesting what it is we're trying to say.

...

I try to keep an open mind by allowing for the opinion that malicious code is NOT in the game. I ALSO try to keep an open mind for allowing the opinion that it may. Perhaps you should try to keep an open mind on both philosophies as well.

I have been chiming in all these threads only to suggest that there may be much more effective and meaningful ways than invoking a conspiracy theory to understand the issues people like you have been experiencing, and even potentially alleviate all these frustrations.

When I am fully acknowledging the existence of these experiences some find very frustrating, how does that make me close minded?

It is you who lack an open mind about others' opinions by dismissing people unless they agree with you in that "unrealistic rally generation" (i.e., rubber banding) exist, ignoring all these suggestions being made so far.


Nobody needs to have a mindset to accept a 100% factually incorrect assumption. If you call that close minded, so be it. I'd rather be close minded than spending hours formulating solutions based on wrong assumptions. That's the best way to start wrong and remain wrong all the way. I remain a loser in the end anyways, because issues remain unsolved.


Like some have already, I am likely giving up (yet again) on engaging in dialogues on this type of issue with people who prefer conspiracy theories over real substance. I remain open-minded for discussing the same matter in a different light though.


I do think it is not a bad idea to keep one thread (just one, only one is enough... call it "official comeback discussion" or something of that sort) in OS open for people on that side to discuss issues in their own terms and words, without fear of getting banned or being heckled... so long as the (unwritten) rule gets established that the topic doesn't leak out from there and start contaminating other threads,

It is true that when "code" is talked about, people may even have different notions of what code can and cannot reasonably do. I bet most people have never coded computers here, so frustrating misunderstanding and miscommunication stemming from differences in backgrounds are unavoidable.

In some way, making the topic taboo-like makes it more appealing for some to think there must be something really going on, when people who are in the know so adamantly and blatantly deny it, even though quite a few people talk about it...

... here's a The Show version of a well-known joke in my industry:

Understanding Comeback Code is like teenage sex: everyone talks about it, nobody really knows how to do it, everyone thinks everyone else is doing it, so everyone claims they are doing it...

[Jr.]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I'm not looking for an argument, good sir. I'm honestly looking for ways to alleviate this distrust I have in the game. I've tried so many things to stop these rallies, but it's gotten very frustrating over the years and I apologize if you feel my responses are condescending as I am not going for that. I am simply looking for ways to alleviate these issues I'm experiencing on higher difficulties.

The only thing I can add to the discussion: go to Dynamic Difficulty, put the sensitivity slider to 10, play a game with a MLB team against a AA team and get everything to All-Star+

It should only take a couple of games. Once you get there, put the sensitivity slider to 0 and it won't move off of All-Star+

No one can tell you how to alleviate these rallies and issues that you are seeing. Baseball is too dynamic of a sport to give a step by step guide.

All-Star+ has been fantastic for me. I have a pretty good team in my franchise and I win more than I lose, as the team should. At times, it does feel crazy how the CPU does things, but I've been on the good end of those same things.

I think this is the only thing that can save the game for you at this point.

[saucerset]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I have been doing some experimenting with different settings the last couple days and some of the things that I have noticed that haven't been brought up too much are the events leading up to a 'rubberband'.

For example: 1rst game today I was getting killed by Detroit 5-1 in the 6th inning. I was pitching King Felix against Price. I couldn't get out of an inning with at least a runner on base and on the other side I could only manage 2 hits and 1 run. In the top of the sixth I score 2 runs. Felix comes out for the bottom of the 6th and is lights out. I could have thrown a beach ball up there and they couldn't do anything with it. The next inning I scored 1 more and again Felix was on fire. Detroit didn't get a hit the rest of the game. I lost 5-4 but I noticed a change in momentum.

I restarted the game. Now we have 2 hits a piece through 6 and I'm starting the 7th with no score. I get a lead off single. The next batter I decide to go aggressive and I end up hitting a 2 run shot. 6 more runs later I have an 8-0 lead after 7. I ended up winning the game 8-0 and Felix went a complete game only giving up 2 hits.

Through those games there was a noticeable change in the players after what could be called a momentum changing play (extra base hit, double play, strikeout, ect..). I even saw the SS for Detroit do an o'le on a double play groundball, even though the confidence of Price was still high.

So what I'm getting at is that I think more focus needs to be aimed at the events that lead up to a CPU burst because I don't believe that it just happens out of the blue. I'm not putting down or insulting those that see different events, because I used to believe that the CPU had it in for me and the game ending was predetermined. The past couple years I have tried to see where I went wrong and how I could have prevented the AI from the burst.

This is just my opinion from my experience. Cheers!

[Padgoi]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I have been doing some experimenting with different settings the last couple days and some of the things that I have noticed that haven't been brought up too much are the events leading up to a 'rubberband'.

For example: 1rst game today I was getting killed by Detroit 5-1 in the 6th inning. I was pitching King Felix against Price. I couldn't get out of an inning with at least a runner on base and on the other side I could only manage 2 hits and 1 run. In the top of the sixth I score 2 runs. Felix comes out for the bottom of the 6th and is lights out. I could have thrown a beach ball up there and they couldn't do anything with it. The next inning I scored 1 more and again Felix was on fire. Detroit didn't get a hit the rest of the game. I lost 5-4 but I noticed a change in momentum.

I restarted the game. Now we have 2 hits a piece through 6 and I'm starting the 7th with no score. I get a lead off single. The next batter I decide to go aggressive and I end up hitting a 2 run shot. 6 more runs later I have an 8-0 lead after 7. I ended up winning the game 8-0 and Felix went a complete game only giving up 2 hits.

Through those games there was a noticeable change in the players after what could be called a momentum changing play (extra base hit, double play, strikeout, ect..). I even saw the SS for Detroit do an o'le on a double play groundball, even though the confidence of Price was still high.

So what I'm getting at is that I think more focus needs to be aimed at the events that lead up to a CPU burst because I don't believe that it just happens out of the blue. I'm not putting down or insulting those that see different events, because I used to believe that the CPU had it in for me and the game ending was predetermined. The past couple years I have tried to see where I went wrong and how I could have prevented the AI from the burst.

This is just my opinion from my experience. Cheers!

You see, now THIS is a GREAT post because it's constructive and it is trying to get to the root of the problem. And furthermore, this is EXACTLY what I'm noticing. There is ALWAYS an event that leads up to the "rubberbanding." Usually it's a walk or a single when the CPU gets down. Once that event happens, literally anything can happen, including ole'd grounders, pitchers not able to throw strikes, back-to-back-to-back extra base hits, etc. It's that even that always triggers the rally. It seems as if once that event happens, the confidence level of every single player on the field is affected negatively and the confidence of every hitter is affected positively, causing the comebacks to happen. The question is . . . why and how do we combat it? And why does it only seem to happen when the CPU goes down? That's not realistic, is it?

[threattonature]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I am definitely in the rubberband AI camp. Too many times late in games just wonky things started happening. I knew as seen as certain events occurred CPU was going to make a run.

One sure fire sign is the computer stealing a base with a guy who should have no shot at all to steal. In one game I had a guy with a 44 speed 11 steal rating steal a base on a fastball where I immediately came up firing. Another game a 63 speed 27 steal guy did the same. Immediately after in both games I got a fielding error (two in one of the games). Also got the bad animation where I throw the ball to my cut off man and it does the oh so casual toss in towards homeplate in a situation where the computer was running even though the ball made it to my cutoff man before they got to third.

Random crap just seems to start happening in games where I have the lead late in games. I have a winning record overall still and prefer losing games as a challenge but just not the way it happens at times.

[cactusruss]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

That old rubberband AI really killed my enjoyment of watching the Reds game last night. Chapman gave up a 4-0 lead in the 9th to the Phillies, who then went on to win in the 11th on an error by Joey Votto. The CPU must've been controlling the Phillies last night, there's no other explanation.

[thaSLAB]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

That old rubberband AI really killed my enjoyment of watching the Reds game last night. Chapman gave up a 4-0 lead in the 9th to the Phillies, who then went on to win in the 11th on an error by Joey Votto. The CPU must've been controlling the Phillies last night, there's no other explanation.

Watched the end of that game live, and of course, immediately thought of this thread lol.

Same for last night's ATL @ ARI game, where the Braves were up 6-0 in the second; they lost, 9-8.

htcONE [M8] 5.0 | Tapatalk

[NDAlum]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Wouldn't stats really help out this thread? Guys who are experiencing issues what are your stats like?

Record?
Can you break down past 20 games and runs scored by inning by CPU?

[Padgoi]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Watched the end of that game live, and of course, immediately thought of this thread lol.

Same for last night's ATL @ ARI game, where the Braves were up 6-0 in the second; they lost, 9-8.

htcONE [M8] 5.0 | Tapatalk

You see, now this here is a constructive post. Completely missing the point of the thread and ignoring the fact that we clearly said the problem is NOT that it happens, but in the FASHION and FREQUENCY that it happens.

[NDAlum]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Could you then provide some stats about the frequency is does in fact happen.

Is it 5% of the time? 50% of the time?

You've put a good deal of energy posting about this issue, have you put any into researching the numbers to support what you're seeing?

[Padgoi]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Could you then provide some stats about the frequency is does in fact happen.

Is it 5% of the time? 50% of the time?

You've put a good deal of energy posting about this issue, have you put any into researching the numbers to support what you're seeing?

I have a job.
I have a kid.
I don't have time to record statistics of my video games.
I can estimate that it happens easily over 50% of the time. Easily. Not comebacks themselves. Just a situation where you get a lead and the very next half inning the CPU will conveniently have at least runners in scoring position to tie the game or actually score to make the game closer. Easily 50% of every game I play.

[NDAlum]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

The reason I ask: I run a 32-man online CFM in Madden. Often times people feel as though they are facing a person who is violating the rules blatantly. With the PS4 you can save/archive your game footage.

Often times people go back, look at the tape, and it's not nearly as bad as they felt it was when the game was actually being played. Many times the complaints they think they are going to make actually don't even formulate.

Could you at least post the sliders you use? Maybe there is a tweak in there that will help. I play on HoF and I've made a few slider changes to mitigate the CPU offense a bit to get some pretty good numbers.

What about your team record?
Team ERA?
Starter records/ERA & bullpen ERA?
Number of blown saves?
Ratings of the pitchers?

I was 30th in BS in '14 with the Pirates. It was pitching on HoF. I had to make slider adjustments.