Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

[Padgoi]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

There are no boosts that get triggered by situations, but depending on the way you look at it, you could of course argue that when you bring in a new pitcher (which tends to be in a late inning), there is always a potential of you playing with a pitcher of lesser quality in terms of attribute ratings.



It's been said energy is the biggest factor affecting the overall effectiveness of a pitcher (followed by confidence), so as you go deeper with your starting pitcher, his overall effectiveness declines, which from another side of view can be considered a rating boost to the opposing side.



When you relieve him, then you are effectively replacing a starting pitcher who is usually an overall better pitcher when fully rested against a reliever who is overall an inferior pitcher even when fully rested. Effectively, you are often making a trade off between an ineffective pitcher with an even more ineffective pitcher.



In that sense, it is not entirely wrong to say that the opposing team is getting a rating boost whenever you pitch with a slightly more ineffective pitcher. Except that rating boost is just a natural consequence of managing bullpen, and not the game forcing certain outcomes.

Watch the video the dude posted a few posts back. I don't see how that can be explained other than to say something kicked in.

[Knight165]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

You see, and this right here ISN'T constructive. If you don't agree, you don't agree. I go by what I experience, not by what someone tells me to experience. That video posted last page hurt my soul because I've seen things like that so much. And what started it? A walk, then an infield single, then a computer generated error. That right there is NOT the computer getting a boost, it's the user having their ratings downgraded to allow for nonsense to happen and it's simply not real baseball any way you slice it. Let us go down our own path and you can go down yours.

Stop.
How is it NOT constructive?
Because it doesn't fit into YOUR narrow view?

M.K.
Knight165

[countryboy]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I missed the post-game interview, but did John Farrell blame yesterday's Red Sox loss on the giant rubber band at Globe Life Park?

I bet the Red Sox really felt like the Ranger AI cheated.

Let's please refrain from these posts, they aren't going to help anything and only stall the conversation

[nomo17k]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Watch the video the dude posted a few posts back. I don't see how that can be explained other than to say something kicked in.

I don't see any video posted in this thread. Where is it?

[Bullit]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I don't believe there is a boost or rubber band AI myself. But others are seeing it. So instead of the non productive arguing between the two camps, I thought that I would engage in the idea of getting those who are seeing it to compare instances and see if they can find a common factor. It beats arguing back and forth.

Just because I don't believe it's there or think it happens doesn't mean there isn't something there or some validity to their experiences. I didn't see the bunting issue that others saw but it was obviously an issue to the extent the devs felt it needed patching.

If we continue to argue whether it exists or not we are never going to solve anything. It's already proven not to work so why not try something else?

I am all for this as well CB, you know that. But somethings just cant be done. You and I, among several others have had this discussion in more threads than I can remember. This topic just seems to spin in circles every other year or so. This years just seems to be even more virulent in these threads. If people wont accept they need to change the way they play or lower the difficulty, mess with sliders to achieve what they are looking for then there is really no point in continuing a discussion on the topic.

People keep saying "well ok that makes sense I will try changing this" then a day later they are posting again about it with the exact same settings and the exact same complaints. I would love for everybody to be able to enjoy the game as much as we do. But I just don't see how any more conversation on this topic will help.

[HozAndMoose]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Watch the video the dude posted a few posts back. I don't see how that can be explained other than to say something kicked in.

If you are talking about the Oakland vs LA video i see nothing wrong. He gets a bad call that results in a walk (it happens turn that off if you dont like it). Then leaves a pitch in the middle that Coco singles on. Sogard singles on a very hittable pitch. He makes a terrible decision on the butler play. Should have thrown straight to 1st. Its Billy freaking Butler running. You cant say anything about him dropping the ball. Catcher should have gotten to the broken bat pop up. Nothing wrong on the Fuld infield single. First baseman didnt cover but he wouldnt have been out anyway. And then leaves a pitch right down the middle that Vogt crushes. Only thing wrong that whole video was the catcher not attempting to get the pop up.

Edit - And BTW. If he throws to 1st when Longoria drops the ball at 3rd he gets out of the inning with no runs scoring. All his fault there.

[Knight165]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Let's please refrain from these posts, they aren't going to help anything and only stall the conversation

But it's hard to ignore his content.
He's posting about reality and how it can be quite strange.
How are we supposed to talk about this if we have to ignore what happens in reality?
I guess I can do that as well as anyone in this thread if that's what guys will consider "constructive"......
I find it quite funny that posting facts from the devs is trying to be labeled as "not constructive".

Hopefully this will be a constructive element.

Did anyone catch the last game that deGrom threw?
The Mets were up 3-0 and he was cruising....filthy......He came out for the 8th inning and in 10 pitches the Mets were losing 4-3.
In what circumstance would this be "acceptable" in this game?

M.K.
Knight165

[NCAAFootballFreak]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Let's please refrain from these posts, they aren't going to help anything and only stall the conversation

Fair enough, I apologize. I'm not trying to be a jerk. But I've heard this same argument about nearly every sports game since I discovered this site over 10 years ago.

Sure, I've lost some games that have made me want to throw my controller in frustration and maybe even put a hole through my monitor. But, that's sports, honestly. Just ask the 2004 Yankees, the 2011 Rangers, the 2005 USC Trojan football team, I could do this all day. Ask Cubs fans. They'll tell you the entire league rubberbands them all the time.

All the Madden games that I've followed have been accused of "rubberbanding," the NCAA series (R. I. P. but I hope to maybe see you again soon, old friend?), The Show series, they've all been talked about as having "rubberband AI." It's become "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" to me to the point that if a game is actually coded that way, I wouldn't believe it because I've listened to people cry about it for over a decade.

But as others have said, I believe this is more tied to user error than some realize. I know when I've lost these kind of games, it's happened when I've gotten lazy. It's happened when I've succumbed to pressure, myself. And sometimes, it just happens. But it really doesn't happen more often to me than it does happen.

And within the context of The Show, if the designers of the game have said it doesn't exist, and they've given us no good reason NOT to believe them, then we should believe them because they've earned it IMHO. But maybe that's just me, or maybe it's Maybelline.

As to when this stuff "happens" to me -- it's all the time. It's happened after I've had five run first innings, it's not happened after I've had five run first innings. It's happened when I'm holding a three run lead in the ninth, it's happened when I'm up by one in the sixth. It's also not happened to me in those same situations.

I will tell you I had a closer blow two games in a row for me. I sent his butt packing and his replacement has fared much better. What I do believe is that there are some guys who just don't "play" to their ratings or that I just don't play well with. It may be their swing timing or their windup mechanics but some guys, I just don't like playing as, regardless of ratings.

Sorry, that was REALLY long.

[cusefan74]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I just have one question, why? Why would they put a comeback code in the game? There is not one good reason for it.

I watched the video and the cpu generated error, which I don't understand that term, but whatever, when he picked up the ball he should have thrown it to first instead of trying to get to the third base bag. If he goes to first he gets the out and the side is retired. The rest of the inning doesn't happen.

[HozAndMoose]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I just have one question, why? Why would they put a comeback code in the game? There is not one good reason for it.

I watched the video and the cpu generated error, which I don't understand that term, but whatever, when he picked up the ball he should have thrown it to first instead of trying to get to the third base bag. If he goes to first he gets the out and the side is retired. The rest of the inning doesn't happen.

He could have ran to first before Butler got there. Ive seen Butler run to first. Im pretty sure he stops for BBQ on the way every time.

[NCAAFootballFreak]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

He could have ran to first before Butler got there. Ive seen Butler run to first. Im pretty sure he stops for BBQ on the way every time.

Or a great big country breakfast . . .

Great, now I want some biscuits with sausage gravy . . .

[cusefan74]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Or a great big country breakfast . . .

Great, now I want some biscuits with sausage gravy . . .

Hey I'm making that later!

[dalger21]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Sometimes I wonder if the '08 version of the show didn't have the "CPU comeback" option in it would we have these types of discussions about rubberband AI or comeback code.

[Baseball Purist]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

Same defense every post. It doesn't happen every game. I won a game 7-1. Then lost a game 4-3. Then the 6-0 comeback happened. Is there malicious code? Probably not. What I'm saying is the Cpu gets a ridiculous and unrealistic boost on higher levels. Can it be attributed to baseball being baseball? Sure. Is it realistic? Not the way the game has it play out.

I think this is pretty spot on. Guys, you're going to win 60 and lose 60 in a season. The Show is a simulation, so unless you're playing on a level below all-star, you're probably not going to finish with a .700 winning percentage.

With that being said, and I've felt this way for years, what get's many users so frustrated IMO, is the HOW.

Is there a code? Probably not. But when you're constantly losing games the same way, whether it be on error's,(simple throws from the 2B or 3B) or as a result of a broken strike zone (do umps miss calls sure, but the majority have a fairly consistent zone, and in the show you have no idea from inning to inning)....it can become a frustrating experience.

Can this be lessened by playing on a lower level? Sure, but I understand those that want a challenge that the computer gives on a higer level, even if that challenge is accomplished in somewhat an unfair way.

I don't think the issue is losing for a lot of people, it's what keeps us coming back for more, it's the way it happens that triggers these threads.

[countryboy]

Re: Rubberbanding AI is killing my enjoyment

I understand what you guys are saying that we've been through this process before. But I don't recall ever giving those who are seeing it an opportunity to see if there are common factors in their experiences. We would argue it's not there, you're playing wrong, myself included, instead of offering a chance for them a chance to explain.

This I'm seeing comeback code it's there vs you're wrong it's not has only led us here. Unless you're willing to offer to help further the discussion then you're only adding to the issue. And we all know it happens in real life, but that doesn't mean their experiences are any less valid.

Please let's stop the back and forth and let those that are seeing it and those willing to offer assistance continue to discuss.