AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

[bobloblah1980]

So let me just preface this by saying I love this game in fact I am 100 games in to year 2 of my 162 games played of my Franchise but......

The AI pitch selection is absolutely horrible! The pitchers league wide in my games are throwing 35-37% Change ups which is crazy! but not only that but just in general I am seeing way to much "junk" Barely making the 50% FB range.

That and I am seeing where a large percentage of the time particularly with bottom of the rotation and crappy relievers that should be throwing FB's in FB count and they don't. Now I realize that they shouldn't all the time but the majority of the time it doesn't.

Anyone else see this? will it be addressed?

[Herschie]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

The AI sure does seem to know how much I hate a 2-strike changeup in the dirt or an outside slider.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

The AI sure does seem to know how much I hate a 2-strike changeup in the dirt or an outside slider.

But That's classic pitching though. I have no issue with that pitch selection ..It's the 2-0, 3-1 changes (Which a lesser pitcher not a Kershaw/Price etc would use a FB) or whatever offspeed pitch they have or just the shear volume of changes
The top Change up pitchers ex. Marco Estrada are at their highest 30% but 37% that's crazy!

[TheWarmWind]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

I don't know about real life but in game I throw 2-0 and 3-1 changeups all the time, especially to good hitters. If they "know" a fastball is coming, the last thing I want to do is give them one. I guess it's because of that fact that I'm ok if they use that against me. It might not be realistic but it's the right ratio to mess me up at the plate. At the end of the day I'd prefer pitchers who can use all of their tools to beat me over a realistic pitch ratio. Still, it would be cool to have a choice between the two options, or to even be able to set pitch ratio guidelines for the computer (if you so desire, not an option that I want on personally). That would certainly help with the steep learning curve this game has.

[ScouserHUN]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

The AI in this game learns the way you play. If you tend to swing at bad pitches the pitchers are going to throw a lot of them. Maybe, you have bad results agains changeups and they are over-using it, because it is effective agains you.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

The AI in this game learns the way you play. If you tend to swing at bad pitches the pitchers are going to throw a lot of them. Maybe, you have bad results agains changeups and they are over-using it, because it is effective agains you.

Im pretty sure its based off confidence levels.


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[HypoLuxa13]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Im pretty sure its based off confidence levels.


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Probably need a dev to confirm, but I pretty much agree. If you are swinging at change ups and sliders and 12-6 curveballs routinely, and not making good contact, the CPU pitcher's confidence in those pitches will go up. Which will make them choose to throw them more often.

Best things I did with MLB 15 to make it the most enjoyable baseball game ever was a) use dynamic difficulty for hitting, and b) take the CPU strike frequency slider way down. I really seemed to get much better AI pitcher behavior this way. I could lay off early pitches looking for a good fastball and not have to worry as much about that first and second pitch off speed and breaking pitch strike. Especially when facing lesser pitchers. After all, how many non-top of the rotation starters can consistently throw their secondary pitches for strikes? Most can't do it with regularity.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Probably need a dev to confirm, but I pretty much agree. If you are swinging at change ups and sliders and 12-6 curveballs routinely, and not making good contact, the CPU pitcher's confidence in those pitches will go up. Which will make them choose to throw them more often.

Best things I did with MLB 15 to make it the most enjoyable baseball game ever was a) use dynamic difficulty for hitting, and b) take the CPU strike frequency slider way down. I really seemed to get much better AI pitcher behavior this way. I could lay off early pitches looking for a good fastball and not have to worry as much about that first and second pitch off speed and breaking pitch strike. Especially when facing lesser pitchers. After all, how many non-top of the rotation starters can consistently throw their secondary pitches for strikes? Most can't do it with regularity.

Exactly what I am saying. I mean I don't strike out a lot I believe My team is in the bottom 5 and I have been using a modified version on A&S sliders with st freq at 3 I just recently upped it from 2 maybe going back to 2 or even 1 will help

[rjackson]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Pitcher confidence does play in to it. The higher the confidence, the more likely to locate for a strike. If you whiff or strike out on a change, they'll throw more changes as the confidence jumps up. If you are walked on a change as the 4th pitch or hit a HR, it drops the most significantly.


What hasn't been mentioned is the effects of guess pitch. If you guess fastball on 3-1 and get it, the CPU knows that you guessed correctly. If you guessed fastball and got a change, the CPU knows you guessed wrong though not which pitch you guessed.


The CPU does learn so if you sit on fastballs in these counts and the confidence is low guess what? You aren't getting fastballs. The CPU adapts and that means you should as well. This will occur in real life as well. I watched Pedro Martinez watching a game he pitched and talking through it. He said that they were taking 1st pitches from him so he adapted and started throwing deep fastball strikes. It worked until they adjusted and Giambi swung at a first pitch fastball for a HR. Pedro said 'they trick me, they trick me there' but hey - it is a game of adjustments. You think a Hector Noesi who has no chance at being more than a depth piece and is going to KBO or Japan won't start throwing a lot of 3-1 sliders to you if he feels he can locate it and you only want fastballs?


This can be witnessed in a lot of areas. If you steal often or hit & run in certain counts, the CPU starts to pitch out more often. I ran a lot on a weak catcher and slow pitcher in game 1 of a series and games 2 and 3 were riddled with pitch-outs and checking runners.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Id imagine the problem is alot of people struggle vs certain pitches so they will see more of that specific pitch.

Personally, i dont mind how the system is now but Id rather see something more along the lines on what 2k did with inside edge on the AI pitch selection. The problem with that though it may too easy to score runs if you see 80 pct fastballs as a user.

Pick your poison.....


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[bobloblah1980]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Id imagine the problem is alot of people struggle vs certain pitches so they will see more of that specific pitch.

Personally, i dont mind how the system is now but Id rather see something more along the lines on what 2k did with inside edge on the AI pitch selection. The problem with that though it may too easy to score runs if you see 80 pct fastballs as a user.

Pick your poison.....



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I understand that the game is adjusting but when a guy like Joe Ross say is throwing 35% + changes when his FB is by far his best pitch (much like probably 95 % of the pitchers in MLB do as well) that's when it's frustrating.

And Like I said earlier it is not like I strike out a lot . I think more than anything as that huge thread on here goes on about, the change-ups are so over powering and effective that seeing such a massive amount of them is too unrealistic that's all

When I am facing Johnny Noodle-Arm and I am up 3-1 and I should be seeing a FB because he's just not Kershaw, Or Scherzer and chances are the FB is what he needs to use to get a strike..

The Elite guys well that's different and you should be off kilter with those guys I can live with that. It's the 4&5 SP's and bad relievers that shouldn't be

[Jolly Roger]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Yeah, I'd like to see a system implemented where AI pitchers throw their pitches based upon their real life percentages. They could still throw more breaking stuff when you're down in the count and more fastballs when you're up in the count, but, generally, I think it would be nice if they threw based upon their real life tendencies.

I actually edit pitchers and remove pitches that Fangraphs has them throwing less than 5% of the time.

Also, if you're having trouble with changeups, remember that a lot of pitchers in The Show have comical differentials in speed between their fastballs and changeups. I always make sure to edit them to their actual differential and this results in many less whiffs and more fouls.

[bobloblah1980]

Not the changes in my franchise.. I was one of the people that came up with the pitch edits in the batters ba's dropping off thread and all my pitchers have between an 8-11 mph speed differences..

I should be clear here I am not struggling with this stuff I have adjusted just fine my team is in the top 10 in most batting catagories. It is just comical the volume of changes thrown and it needs to be adjusted

[KBLover]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Anyone else see this?

Yes, and I see it as a pitcher as well where I'm punished for pitching realistically.

I have one guy I drafted in MLB14 who literally throws 99-102 MPH fastballs and has only one pitching rating under 85 (BB/9 is in the 70's) with a 90's K/9. Why would I throw nearly half my pitches as off speed with him? Heck, with that kind of fastball - as long as I don't throw it down the middle, it should be tough to hit.

Yet, when I keep a realistic 65-70% fastball rate, I'll start getting hit and am "forced" to throw tons of junk "to get them off the fastball".

I notice the same with locations. I have a pure absolute 100% finesse guy with 80 MPH "fastball" yet the game wants me to throw pitches up. What? Why would I do that with a change-up level fastball? A guy like that should be trying to induce as many grounders as he can and nip those edges as much as possible.

Pitching is about disrupting timing and being deceptive - yet, in the real game, pitchers don't have to throw 45-50% off-speed to do that. Heck, pitchers like that are outliers (or knuckleballers). I remember it being a big deal when Paco Rodriguez threw like 60% off-speed one year.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: AI Pitch Selction Needs Adjustment

Yes, and I see it as a pitcher as well where I'm punished for pitching realistically.

I have one guy I drafted in MLB14 who literally throws 99-102 MPH fastballs and has only one pitching rating under 85 (BB/9 is in the 70's) with a 90's K/9. Why would I throw nearly half my pitches as off speed with him? Heck, with that kind of fastball - as long as I don't throw it down the middle, it should be tough to hit.

Yet, when I keep a realistic 65-70% fastball rate, I'll start getting hit and am "forced" to throw tons of junk "to get them off the fastball".

I notice the same with locations. I have a pure absolute 100% finesse guy with 80 MPH "fastball" yet the game wants me to throw pitches up. What? Why would I do that with a change-up level fastball? A guy like that should be trying to induce as many grounders as he can and nip those edges as much as possible.

Pitching is about disrupting timing and being deceptive - yet, in the real game, pitchers don't have to throw 45-50% off-speed to do that. Heck, pitchers like that are outliers (or knuckleballers). I remember it being a big deal when Paco Rodriguez threw like 60% off-speed one year.

Exactly! Thank You! when say Andrew Miller or Aroldis Chapman comes out you are going to see many, many 97+ mph fastballs not change, change, breaking ball oh well I guess ,I will throw FB now! ..

Although I am Wondering if the fact that most of the pitchers in the game have too many darn pitches is part of the problem?.. Hear me out

Since they have categorized pitchers into the 3 types SP/RP/CP In real life most SP's (not all of course) in real life usually at best have command of 3 maybe 4 pitches(and 4 is pretty rare) and I realize some throw 5 or 6 but they are usually the exception .. So depending what roster you use, you will see a lot of 5 pitch starters. Which in turn gives the AI way too many choices other than the 3 main pitches that said pitcher throws .

Now Relievers are what? usually failed starters because why? many reasons of course but typically it's because they can't locate their secondary stuff so most pitchers from the pen excluding long relievers usually drop down to 2 pitches but in the game they have to have a min of 3. I wonder if just that simple adjustment alone would help with this issue because then the AI has LESS choices to try and trick you and must rely on the 2 pitches that they have. That may help with more realistic game calling.. Just a Theory

Look, I am a baseball junkie at heart I can watch, breathe and talk baseball all day long and I still play this game a ton but I have 3 major pet peeves about it
1 -The AI Pitch selection
2 -The Progression system for Pitcher Velocity and Fielder Running Speed is stupid as there is no logic to it.. You can't teach speed or drastically increase Velocity
3 - the drafting and scouting system for franchise mode are completely broken.. last time I checked scouts don't just stop scouting after the draft etc