Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

**RCMacc44** · 01-11-2016, 07:43 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Also Carter Capps of the Marlins (the guy that jumps) is not accurate

In Real Life: /yZJMLT98Vsc
In MLB 15 The Show: /_ddz0DBtn1Q?t=3m38s
(He doesn't hop toward the plate in The Show and he doesn't load his leg/turn his back like he does in real life)

You need to type youtu (dot) be into the address bar before the slash (in what would be links above), since I haven't posted enough to be able to add links

**catswithbats** · 01-12-2016, 02:57 AM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Originally posted by Flaxseed Oil

I will say that several of the windups were improved in 2015 - Chris Sale, John Lackey, Max Scherzer all looked much better.

I'd actually like a new mocap for Scherzer, or at least a new finish to his delivery.

RL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhe7yJEaNoc
Mocap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJEAzX7b9Mo

**Factzzz** · 01-12-2016, 02:58 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

90% of the new deliveries added this year don't have a correct finish/finishing position.

It's like they focused on the beginning and then just gave everyone a generic finish. The finish makes all the difference in the delivery, look how good Yordano Ventura's delivery looks.

Here's an example:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-zsVX2HM4nU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OEuVgWeiYdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Strasburg finishes on firstbase side every time, in the Show, he finishes almost square to home plate. I noticed this with almost all of the new deliveries, they almost all have this same generic finish that Strasburg has.

Very poorly done.

**catswithbats** · 02-02-2016, 04:09 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Another "finish" that bugs me is Anibal Sanchez. The delivery is actually pretty good, but the rest of it? Not so much.

RL: http://m.mlb.com/video/v339331983/kc...ixplus-innings // https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoaT-olTMY4

Can't find any video of Sanchez from MLB the Show on youtube so I'll have to record some of my own. It definitely doesn't look like Anibal does in the MLB.com clips.

**JDiaz1** · 02-02-2016, 08:25 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Just a wind up that I feel needs to be fixed (big time) but it is Tim Lincecum. He needs an overhaul of his current delivery.

**HypoLuxa13** · 02-02-2016, 10:01 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Doesn't Kirby on the Dev team do most of the pitching Mo-caps? Or maybe he did a lot of the batting stances. I suppose they bring in some outside talent as well. But give the guys a break if some of the windups and deliveries are a bit off, they are trying to replicate hundreds of motions. A lot of work, a lot of time.

**Factzzz** · 02-02-2016, 10:51 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Originally posted by HypoLuxa13

Doesn't Kirby on the Dev team do most of the pitching Mo-caps? Or maybe he did a lot of the batting stances. I suppose they bring in some outside talent as well. But give the guys a break if some of the windups and deliveries are a bit off, they are trying to replicate hundreds of motions. A lot of work, a lot of time.

I think, in a stream last year, Kirby said they had him do a few certain players (i think he said star players, can't remember). I think it's probably the ones he did that actually look good (like Ventura, Bumgarner off the top of my head). And the ones he didn't do all look bad.

**jmaj315** · 02-02-2016, 11:01 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Originally posted by Factzzz

90% of the new deliveries added this year don't have a correct finish/finishing position.

It's like they focused on the beginning and then just gave everyone a generic finish. The finish makes all the difference in the delivery, look how good Yordano Ventura's delivery looks.

Strasburg finishes on firstbase side every time, in the Show, he finishes almost square to home plate. I noticed this with almost all of the new deliveries, they almost all have this same generic finish that Strasburg has.

Very poorly done.

I always imagined the finishing position was due to them not actually throating a ball, or... not throwing it hard anyways
I always thought that ruined those back-up-the-box hits and caused the pitcher to either get smoked in the face or use his Neo reflexes to snag the ball without regard to physics ha
I'm hoping they can get those finishing positions a bit closer to real.

Also, when they show a pitcher as player of the game (where i noticed it most) the delivery just looks so.... casual

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

**Factzzz** · 02-02-2016, 11:23 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Rp3J8M2gM2g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9dC2_gJ92nU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

These are two examples of good deliveries because they have actual finish to it, opposed to some generic finishing position that most of the deliveries added last year had.

The Weaver delivery from 13 is still better because even in the Ventura delivery the glove hand looks weird throughout the delivery (most of the deliveries added last year had the same problem).

The quality of deliveries really took a step backwards last year. They added a lot of new deliveries to get rid of the really old ones that looked really bad from like MLB 10, but i guess with the increase in quantity, came a decrease in quality.

Spoiler

**strawberryshortcake** · 02-08-2016, 02:55 AM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Originally posted by Factzzz

90% of the new deliveries added this year don't have a correct finish/finishing position.

It's like they focused on the beginning and then just gave everyone a generic finish. The finish makes all the difference in the delivery, look how good Yordano Ventura's delivery looks.

Here's an example:

Spoiler

Strasburg finishes on firstbase side every time, in the Show, he finishes almost square to home plate. I noticed this with almost all of the new deliveries, they almost all have this same generic finish that Strasburg has.

Very poorly done.

It's not simply Strasburg, I'm guessing it's with most if not all of their pitchers.

Originally posted by HypoLuxa13

Doesn't Kirby on the Dev team do most of the pitching Mo-caps? Or maybe he did a lot of the batting stances. I suppose they bring in some outside talent as well. But give the guys a break if some of the windups and deliveries are a bit off, they are trying to replicate hundreds of motions. A lot of work, a lot of time.

I'm suspecting a lot of work and a lot of time as well. But if wanting the most authentic and most realistic sports game out in the market place, how realistic the motion of the body in action is captured can certainly be said to be an important or even crucial component.

Originally posted by jmaj315

I always imagined the finishing position was due to them not actually throating a ball, or... not throwing it hard anyways
I always thought that ruined those back-up-the-box hits and caused the pitcher to either get smoked in the face or use his Neo reflexes to snag the ball without regard to physics ha
I'm hoping they can get those finishing positions a bit closer to real.

Also, when they show a pitcher as player of the game (where i noticed it most) the delivery just looks so.... casual

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Pretty much the part in bold is why I will say most if not all deliveries are simply off. To replicate proper pitching motion requires properly capturing the actual speed of the pitch/body language/body english, which from what I can see is unfortunately lacking in MLBtheShow.

What I see with MLBtheShow pitchers is someone who is "tossing" the ball as oppose to actually "pitching" a real baseball with force. There is a lack of realistic body english on follow through. There is a lack of realistic strong leg kicks. There is a lack of realistic upper body/torso strong forceful follow through. There is a lack of realistic real body lean. There is a lack of realistic arm force follow through.

The speed of the follow through is simply too slow. Some may say it's "good enough" but to be authentic, there needs to be more mustard. Pitching a baseball is suppose to be a violent action. So much so, that real life pitchers almost fall over on every single pitch. Righty's will fall to the left of the mound; Lefty's will fall to right of the mound because of the body's momentum. But it's not as simple as that. Capturing the proper "motion" needs to be paired with the proper "speed" of the body in motion (or pitch) as well.

I suspect the motion capture "artist" isn't throwing heaters at all. I'm guessing instead of "pitching" a 90 mph fastball, the motion artist is "tossing" a ball at a max speed of 45/55 mph, plus or minus (or whatever max speed it is). But even if the motion capture artist can't throw 90 mph fastball, there should still be proper body english/lean/speed of arm during follow throughs when you're trying to legitimately pitch a heater (with respect to whatever top speed of the motion capture artist).

Compare the speed/force/lean of the upper body.

Real pitchers "REAR back and put mustard on that pitch; the oomph; the violent force, the violent nature of the arm speed... the body language/the upper body/the body english. .... the leg kick ... how the pitcher falls towards the mound after each pitch. ..."

which unfortunately, is lacking in MLBtheShow to be honest.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts on it. My 2 cents.

**Flaxseed Oil** · 02-08-2016, 02:14 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Not sure how to embed a gif, so hopefully this works. But one place where 2K baseball always killed the Show was pitcher animations. See below:

<iframe src="http://gifs.com/embed/yPXnrR" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" width='269' height='270' style="-webkit-backface-visibility: hidden;-webkit-transform: scale(1);" ></iframe>

<iframe src="http://gifs.com/embed/YE5RvW" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" width='456' height='270' style="-webkit-backface-visibility: hidden;-webkit-transform: scale(1);" ></iframe>

<iframe src="http://gifs.com/embed/gJ2PLj" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" width='480' height='270' style="-webkit-backface-visibility: hidden;-webkit-transform: scale(1);" ></iframe>

https://gifs.com/gif/yPXnrR

**blingballa333** · 02-08-2016, 03:04 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

Ubaldo Jimenez's delivery is laughably slow I noticed a while back.

**Speedy** · 02-08-2016, 05:31 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

I'd love to see Smoltz's windup redone.

**themrman** · 02-08-2016, 08:54 PM

Re: Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

I think this is a lot more important than some people think it is. As someone who plays baseball and knows a lot about pitching mechanics, the game just looks odd im my opinion. It looks like people are tossing horseshoes at a retirement home.
Even if a pitcher's windup is slow, their arm is moving quickly and violently. Pitching is a very explosive motion and the animations do not reflect that at all. They should hire a real pitcher to replicate the motions becasue frankly, these look terible.
I think the thing is that they dont understand how pitchers pitch the way they do.
There is little hip shoulder separtation in the animations. No explosive drive from the legs and the arm moves too slow.
IMO this is why the japanese pitchers' animations look so wierd. They have the same nonchalant tempo the whole way in the game when in reality they move extremely quickly after their initial pause.

tanaka here looks wierd. I dont think anyone can even hit 70 mph with those mechanics. His sholders are too open, His glove side is loose, and his front knee is weak.

IN comparison here tanaka is low to the ground, has tight gloveside and front knee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw4PP8YqcM0

That is a link that breaks down his and darvish's mechanics.

I know not every pitcher pitches this way but if you look at the show, no pitcher pitches even close to how a real life pitcher would pitch except for maybe the lincecum mechanics. And even then its not accurate for lincecum anymore.

look at waino irl

in game:

I know it doesnt look that bad here becasue this is a older animation but even the old ones have the same weak gloveside flaw that needs to be fixed.

If the devs need to see and understand how pitchers actually pitch go here:

Pitching Mechanics Analyses and Video Clips

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/PitchingMechanics101/Analyses/index.html

Video clips and detailed analyses of the pitching mechanics of current, retired, and future major league baseball pitchers.

Ps:that guy is an ahole but its a good place to start on how to understand mechacnics.

tldr: game pitching animations are poor because the caps dont capture how real pitchers pitch. Game pitchers never have the same tempo either.

sorru for all the images.

Pitching windup animations - list a pitcher that needs a new MoCap

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