Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

[NDAlum]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

I think for the most part we are on the same page.



I think part of the difference between us is result vs. intent.



I would never argue that a breaking ball up can't EVER be effective and I don't even think ND would disagree with that.



But it's more to the fact that most pitchers would never intend to throw a high breaking ball.







One of my most memorable strikeouts in college was actually in a fall (exhibition) game against a middle of the lineup hitter from Bucknell (D1 when I was in D3) when I accidentally threw a high slurve (as the Show defines it) instead of my intention which was to start it low and have it break outside).

Have I gotten lucky in my life with off speed pitches I hung? Heck yea. My best pitch in college was a split change that I threw in the strike zone. I hung a few and it got ripped some but it also fooled a couple guys and some whiffed. It's baseball where the best players get hits 30-35% of the time.




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[cardinalbird5]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

This thread is ridiculous lol.

When I play offline I never throw high offspeed.

However, I mainly play online and I like to think I play pretty sim and realistic (ask nomo or old boy). I see pitches, mix up my tendencies and attack my opponents' weakness. If you are facing guys that can hit high heat then you have to mix it up. If you pitch like a robot (only offspeed low and fastballs inside) then you will lose to most competent players. Now if I face a guy who cannot turn on a fastball then why would I throw anything else? I can argue it is not realistic to only be a push hitter/low ball hitter and I guarantee most players online are just that.

Heck Id even argue if you pitch like a robot or cookie cutterish how is that even fun? Be innovative and try different approaches, especially against great hitters.

To each their own, but trying to passively aggressive insult players who think outside the box a bit is ridiculous, especially when playing online against real people not the AI.

Besides alot of pitches are left high in the strike zone and often fool batters especially breaking balls.

This is coming from someone who only runs plays in NBA and works the count in MLB as good as anyone, so the generalization that 30 pct of us are not playing realistic baseball is not true.

Besides out of the 70 pct how many of them play online?


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[N51_rob]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

I think a better poll is who throws a pitch in the strike zone before the are down 3-0....? Not this guy.

[redsfan4life]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

This thread is just a bunch of people patting themselves on the back for doing things they claim to be 'sim'. Oh brother. You're entitled to play the game how you want, but that kind of attitude is pretty bothersome. You're looking down on 90% of the people that play this game, condescending much? How about you just get over yourselves and play the game, or don't. People will play regardless.

Another thing people like this will do is say if you throw pitches in the dirt that you aren't 'sim'. Abusing it sure, but it's the batters job to lay off and it really isn't that hard this day in age.

[N51_rob]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

This thread is just a bunch of people patting themselves on the back for doing things they claim to be 'sim'. Oh brother. You're entitled to play the game how you want, but that kind of attitude is pretty bothersome. You're looking down on 90% of the people that play this game, condescending much? How about you just get over yourselves and play the game, or don't. People will play regardless.

Another thing people like this will do is say if you throw pitches in the dirt that you aren't 'sim'. Abusing it sure, but it's the batters job to lay off and it really isn't that hard this day in age.

30%...32% if you want to get technical.

[mpulse24]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

Against a cpu opponent? Absolutely not, I keep all my offspeed pitches down. but against an online opponent or someone on the couch with me, I will mix in the high and inside changeup, which I find to be extremely effective, especially after working fastballs off the plate, outside for a couple of pitches. But other than that high, inside changeup, I would never intentionally hang a breaking ball. If I ever end up doing that, its a mistake pitch.

[NDAlum]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

This thread is just a bunch of people patting themselves on the back for doing things they claim to be 'sim'. Oh brother. You're entitled to play the game how you want, but that kind of attitude is pretty bothersome. You're looking down on 90% of the people that play this game, condescending much? How about you just get over yourselves and play the game, or don't. People will play regardless.

I think it's about 70% of OS showing that they utilize true to life pitching fundamentals when they play the show.

It's not a "claim" but rather a fact. That's why the majority voted "No". I don't know where you get 90% from *shrugs*. I have always been curious about this and wanted to finally ask the question to see what the majority does.

Another thing people like this will do is say if you throw pitches in the dirt that you aren't 'sim'. Abusing it sure, but it's the batters job to lay off and it really isn't that hard this day in age.

What do you mean "people like this"?

To your hypothetical point: intentionally throwing pitches in the dirt in an effort to get hitters to chase is a core pitching concept. Pitchers are taught to miss down with their off speed and will often "bury" their pitches. Let's say you're ahead 0-2 in the count...heck yea bury that slider in the dirt and try to get the strikeout. That's a part of baseball.

Intentionally throwing pitches in the dirt is a part of baseball and I would never say otherwise, nor would anybody who understands the game of baseball.

[NDAlum]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

This thread is ridiculous lol.

When I play offline I never throw high offspeed.

However, I mainly play online and I like to think I play pretty sim and realistic (ask nomo or old boy). I see pitches, mix up my tendencies and attack my opponents' weakness. If you are facing guys that can hit high heat then you have to mix it up. If you pitch like a robot (only offspeed low and fastballs inside) then you will lose to most competent players. Now if I face a guy who cannot turn on a fastball then why would I throw anything else? I can argue it is not realistic to only be a push hitter/low ball hitter and I guarantee most players online are just that.

Heck Id even argue if you pitch like a robot or cookie cutterish how is that even fun? Be innovative and try different approaches, especially against great hitters.

To each their own, but trying to passively aggressive insult players who think outside the box a bit is ridiculous, especially when playing online against real people not the AI.

Besides alot of pitches are left high in the strike zone and often fool batters especially breaking balls.

This is coming from someone who only runs plays in NBA and works the count in MLB as good as anyone, so the generalization that 30 pct of us are not playing realistic baseball is not true.

Besides out of the 70 pct how many of them play online?


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It's not realistic, period.

If you want to adapt to the online competition and throw these pitches, do it! Online play is a competitive arena where people are going to use the most effective tactics to win. It's like every other sport when you go online: people play to win and will get there by any means necessary.

If the vote was broken down into online/offline I would say the majority of online voted "Yes" and the majority of offline voted "No".

From a real world baseball perspective, you're not thinking outside of the box. It's not a part of baseball.

From a video game perspective, you're trying to mix up your pitches and locations in an effort to win. Do your thing!

[Mike3207]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

I've had some success throwing a knuckleball up high in the zone. It seems to get a lot of strikeouts, especially when a batter has two strikes.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

I've had some success throwing a knuckleball up high in the zone. It seems to get a lot of strikeouts, especially when a batter has two strikes.

Does a knuckleball truly count as an off-speed pitch? I Just thought he was talking about changeups and curves. If the knuckleball counts I need to change my answer. Threw Dickey's knuckleball at the top of the strike zone a few times.

[Mike3207]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

Does a knuckleball truly count as an off-speed pitch? I Just thought he was talking about changeups and curves. If the knuckleball counts I need to change my answer. Threw Dickey's knuckleball at the top of the strike zone a few times.

In the training mode you have where you have to hit only fastballs it's not one of the pitches mentioned as a fastball, so by process of elimination it'd have to be considered an offspeed pitch.

Slider a offspeed pitch as well or more of a fastball. It has significant break, but you can also throw it pretty hard.

[kehlis]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

In the training mode you have where you have to hit only fastballs it's not one of the pitches mentioned as a fastball, so by process of elimination it'd have to be considered an offspeed pitch.

Slider a offspeed pitch as well or more of a fastball. It has significant break, but you can also throw it pretty hard.

I actually disagree with you on that.

To me an offspeed pitch would be different than your normal speed.

If you're facing a knuckleballer, the knuckleball is the normal speed (you could argue that when he throws a fastball that's his offspeed pitch).

[redsfan4life]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

I think it's about 70% of OS showing that they utilize true to life pitching fundamentals when they play the show.

It's not a "claim" but rather a fact. That's why the majority voted "No". I don't know where you get 90% from *shrugs*. I have always been curious about this and wanted to finally ask the question to see what the majority does.



What do you mean "people like this"?

To your hypothetical point: intentionally throwing pitches in the dirt in an effort to get hitters to chase is a core pitching concept. Pitchers are taught to miss down with their off speed and will often "bury" their pitches. Let's say you're ahead 0-2 in the count...heck yea bury that slider in the dirt and try to get the strikeout. That's a part of baseball.

Intentionally throwing pitches in the dirt is a part of baseball and I would never say otherwise, nor would anybody who understands the game of baseball.

I guess I don't get the point then. I don't throw a lot of high offspeed pitches because if someone is looking for them they get hammered. I do mix some in very occasionally (mainly sliders inside) so the hitter can't just lock in to what I'm trying to do. That wouldn't be good pitching.

[abcabc]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

No, only happens if I miss my spot. In real life, high off speed pitches get hit a long way.

thats right, i feel in MLB the show, a high changeup works too well...against the AI batters. like if you tossed 2 FB low and are in a 0-2 or 1-2 count... then you break out a changeup and set it high... you get frozen batters, all kinds of stuff in your favor. it should maybe be only the 9 hitter but, no.

a high changeup should be a mistake as it is in real life. not always a HR but a real life pro batter can still get around it even if fooled.. just because it's a high changeup, IMHO

[abcabc]

Re: Do you intentionally throw off speed pitches up in the zone?

I think it's just that because of the camera angle often used in the game, high fast ball and high changeup are very difficult to distinguish right after pitch release (because they travel relatively little out of line of sight), and the in-game pitcher delivery/pitch release is always consistent that the game doesn't offer enough to tip off pitch types that real-life batter could take advantage of. That likely makes high changeup more effective in the game than in real life.

However, real-life pitchers (though probably not by intention) also end up leaving/hanging chageups high in the strike zone more often than we think.

totally... in real life the pitcher mostly aims for the 7-8-9 spots on the dialpad of the strike zone, no? in the show, i've tried the 1-2-3 spots deliberately and it's allowed me to 'mix it up' real well game wide.. for generations of the show... unfortunately. so it feels unrealistic to me specifically with pitching the changeup to the AI.

conversely i think, a low pitched change up should be programmed to fool the AI better.. a changeup, unlike a FB, is not a all strike zone pitch. changeup needs to be even a out of strike zone pitch... in the dirt, etc.

a real life pitcher aims at 7-8-9, laways low.. the MISSES go up to 1-6.
high in the zone.