The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvement

[takki]

Can we talk about how we have a giant portion of the community that is seemingly more concerned about the length of socks, the perfect shade of green grass in a specific stadium and the pixel count on a mountain in the background...

over gameplay improvement? Go into any improvement suggestion topic and at least 33% of the posts will be "I'm not going to buy this game unless they correct the stitching on the back of the jersey of my favorite team".

I wish we could get on the same page of "I'll sacrifice complaining in threads about whether someone's beard is correct in game so that we can come together to promote actual gameplay improvements like the implementation of weather, ball-park creator, etc."

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

We've had this conversation ad nauseum and the reality is that everyone wants everything to be perfect, but since most people realize that's not possible, different people prioritize different things and that's ok. I don't really agree that there's this great divide between different camps of people. I think everyone wants better and more everything, but different people have different priorities and different levels of detail they notice. I think it's inaccurate to reduce the "visual people" to not caring at all about gameplay and vice versa. It's actually better this way because the devs get feedback on a multitude of things, even some things they probably hadn't considered themselves.

[SmashMan]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

What does it say about the strength of your argument if you need to knock on other aspects to make it seem more important?

(There are different departments that focus on different aspects of the game. These guys are professionals, they can prioritize things well.)

[dran1984]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

Can we talk about how we have a giant portion of the community that is seemingly more concerned about the length of socks, the perfect shade of green grass in a specific stadium and the pixel count on a mountain in the background...

over gameplay improvement? Go into any improvement suggestion topic and at least 33% of the posts will be "I'm not going to buy this game unless they correct the stitching on the back of the jersey of my favorite team".

I wish we could get on the same page of "I'll sacrifice complaining in threads about whether someone's beard is correct in game so that we can come together to promote actual gameplay improvements like the implementation of weather, ball-park creator, etc."

Seriously?? Two things you listed under game play - the implementation of weather and ball-park creator - have nothing to do with game play. If you noticed the devs can walk and chew gum at the same time. They have made significant improvements in every area of the game. Gameplay and and graphics have both been majorly improved. I also find it funny that you want to control everyone's opinion on what should be included. At this point the game is basically done anyway.

[nomo17k]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

I used to think that way right when I joined this forum long time ago, but the gameplay crowd (to which I tend to belong more) is not really losing anything even when so many more people appear to be more concerned about so-called aesthetic issues.

I think developer resources between the two aspects are not necessarily shared (e.g., graphic designers would not do game A.I. programming), so it is not one or the other type of situation.

And quite frankly, I continue to be impressed by how SDS incorporates so many of gameplay-related user feedback every year. Few products are created this way these days.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

Can't we have our cake & eat it, too?

[kehlis]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

All your doing is ignoring the posters that are pointing out the gameplay improvements they want to see and honing in on the posts aimed towards visual specifics.

I'm on your side (gameplay) but there are plenty of posts on both sides of the spectrum and you're being pretty short-sided with this.

It also always comes back to why should your wants be more important than someone else's wants?


My first inclination was actually to close this because as previously mentioned, separate teams work independently on these functions of the game so you're entire premise is flawed but if you feel there is a need to have a discussion I'm willing to have it go on as long as people post appropriately.

[Factzzz]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

I guess i'm in the "aethestics" camp, but that's because i don't see much that needs to be improved gameplay wise.

Literally nothing bothers me about the gameplay, i'd say it's near perfect. The lack of doubles down the line to the wall is a little annoying, but other than that, i can't really think of anything i'd change about the gameplay.

More animations maybe?

What do people want to see improved gameplay wise? Serious question.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

I like how the OP didn't mention a gameplay aspect that I care to improve on either side of his argument. People are going to disagree with you and have a different opinion. That's life. Goes double on the internet.

kehlis I'm actually really shocked you didn't shut this down.

[BrianU]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

I guess i'm in the "aethestics" camp, but that's because i don't see much that needs to be improved gameplay wise.

Literally nothing bothers me about the gameplay, i'd say it's near perfect. The lack of doubles down the line to the wall is a little annoying, but other than that, i can't really think of anything i'd change about the gameplay.

More animations maybe?

What do people want to see improved gameplay wise? Serious question.

I would say A.I. and Franchise. I expect big improvements to franchise because they never leave one area or other areas neglected or at least havent in the last 2 years I've played the game. They are really good about improving all areas of the game, I don't know why anyone would try to make a post about asthetics vs gameplay.

But for the gameplay side there are lots of things that can improve. You pointed out a big one in the doubles down the line physics which makes guarding the lines unnecessary ever and removes a strategic part of the game that I'd like to have there. I love the little strategy of baseball and making the right call at the right time to win the game. The more the better.

When it comes to A.I. I wish they would use their bullpen better/smarter. How many times have you seen them bring in a LHP to face a RHB? They are oblivious to batter pitcher matchups and ratings. They spoke about manager AI in an earlier stream but didnt elaborate. I think that may mean something like how frequent certain managers do hit n runs or steal, which would be nice to have. I am hoping this alleviates the issue last year where the CPU would double steal quite often and often in dumb situations like 2 outs. Even with slow runners. They touched on stealing this year so I expect it to be improved.

Something that is a tall order and has never been done in a baseball game that I would like to see is a way to differentiate batter swing speeds. In real life certain batters have a hard time catching up to fastballs so pitchers throw more of them when facing them. But in the game the AI are all equally good/bad versus curves sliders fastballs. I prefer online because playing a human lets you feel that. Seeing the guy late on his swings to your fastball makes you pump more at him. I want that same feeling against the AI. Imagine in franchise as a player gets older his bat speed slows down and he begins having trouble versus fastballs when while he was younger he made his living off of them. I don't even know how it would be done but I think it's a big part that no one has tried emulating yet. Other sports games have moved from strictly ratings and brought more dynamic gameplay by using traits to further differentiate players. That's harder to do in baseball but I think this idea would help in that regard in a big way.

For franchise mode in the current state (MLB 15) I would give it a B+ but it certainly can be major improved. I think The Show has the best simulated stats of any sports game but last year there were issues of complete games/shutouts being x2 the amount as you'd see in real life. They mentioned they fixed progression which was a bit OP for pitchers last year, I hope they got the CGs under control as well. To me sim stats are so important, what is the point of playing all those games if you can't really compare yourself to the rest of the league?

There are lots of little things in franchise mode that could be added such as Non-roster invites to spring training, contract things like control over how the money is payed out year to year. Lots of little rules in the CBA that are technical but cool to have in. Schedules that change every year in franchise mode instead of repeating. Teams using their pitching rotation more accurately in playoffs... like a 3 man rotation. Bringing a SP in as a RP at the end of a series. Agents for players would be a cool feature. Where some agents make their guy hit the free agency market 9/10 times, and others are more team friendly. Franchise sliders would be huge. Really glad they are adding a trade slider but there can always be more. If you have played NBA2k16's MyLeague you know what I mean. That sets the bar in that area. Injury length/severity, trade difficulty, simulation difficulty, draft class quality, player progression and regression rates, training effects, and morale are ALL user controlled.

[Bullit]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

All your doing is ignoring the posters that are pointing out the gameplay improvements they want to see and honing in on the posts aimed towards visual specifics.

I'm on your side (gameplay) but there are plenty of posts on both sides of the spectrum and you're being pretty short-sided with this.

It also always comes back to why should your wants be more important than someone else's wants?


My first inclination was actually to close this because as previously mentioned, separate teams work independently on these functions of the game so you're entire premise is flawed but if you feel there is a need to have a discussion I'm willing to have it go on as long as people post appropriately.

LOL I saw the thread and was like "ok lets just go ahead and close this now."

[Scott]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

LOL I saw the thread and was like "ok lets just go ahead and close this now."

Haha you're not the only one...

[ryan36]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

I'm on the "gameplay" side of this false dichotomy , but I do think there's something about the look of the game that's stale.

In the presentation video I watched they showed three themes, and to me they're all just basically the same.

I do think presentation matters; ten years ago, if nfl 2k5 didn't have ESPN and look just like what I saw on tv, I might not have liked it nearly as much.

I think with Matt V doing the pbp, and it being the only mlb game out there , that an mlb network presentation would be great, although I'd actually prefer ESPN or Fox.

Just copy something real and quit being "imaginative " ; and yes I know there are license and trademark and it may be too expensive (and completely understand)

I guess all I'm saying is that the graphics *do* matter because they add to a sim experience.

Just look at nba2k or even frankly mlb2k in my eyes was better aesthetically. All the menus and screens are tons and tons of black. I guess I also spend a lot of time playing with menus haha.

These guys just kill the gameplay and so that's why I buy. But I welcome things like Pbr.

[Skyboxer]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

My main this is "Is it fun to play"
Yes gameplay and then visuals (in that order) affect my happiness but it just simply comes down to whether or not it gives me enjoyment.

With the Show I've always had fun and anything they add is just icing on the cake. I personally will never be posting "I'm furious they didn't bet the right show on such and such" but that's me.

It's been said before but from stick figure baseball to now.. I'm not complaining about much on either side.

With that said the one thing that does bother me is 2 months into a season and a major bug is encountered that causes a long wait for a patch and a franchise start over. Those are the things that get me the most on the "unhappy" side.

[Scott]

Re: The community is caught up between people who want gameplay vs aesthetic improvem

I'm on the gameplay side. It could look amazing but have horrible gameplay and I would trade it in within a week...