Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

[jeffy777]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Witcher 3 for grass.

Dirt Rally for dirt.

[hb5239799]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Get on this level please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cNA_Wd0is

[Cod]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Get on this level please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cNA_Wd0is

The footage used in the promo is not in-game. If you look at some of the game play videos from PSX, you'll see the grass has a "matted-down" look. Sports/racing games do not do scenery very well, but it's completely understandable since that genre has bigger fish to fry (game play, AI, etc.).

The fact we're all discussing a need for better grass and dirt is a testament to the work The Show developers have done over the years.

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

How do racing games and such not do scenery well? Plenty of games do scenery realistically and very well. We are talking about PS3 era foliage problems meaning something needs to be done about it in game.

These are not really minor details. Stadiums are a prized piece of the picture when you view a baseball game. Leaving your grass and dirt looking like the PS2 or 3 era is not something anyone should hope for or expect to be changed only when a radical change is needed. It's something that should already be done going into year 4 of the PS4. The PS3 engine has held this game back for ages.

[metovics8]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

How do racing games and such not do scenery well? Plenty of games do scenery realistically and very well. We are talking about PS3 era foliage problems meaning something needs to be done about it in game.

These are not really minor details. Stadiums are a prized piece of the picture when you view a baseball game. Leaving your grass and dirt looking like the PS2 or 3 era is not something anyone should hope for or expect to be changed only when a radical change is needed. It's something that should already be done going into year 4 of the PS4. The PS3 engine has held this game back for ages.

Idk man I think THE DRIVE CLUB has some of the best graphics ever with dynamic lighting and weather... I swear I can't win a race bcuz I always admire the beauty of that game and I think it's 2 years old now

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Cod]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

These are not really minor details. Stadiums are a prized piece of the picture when you view a baseball game. Leaving your grass and dirt looking like the PS2 or 3 era is not something anyone should hope for or expect to be changed only when a radical change is needed. It's something that should already be done going into year 4 of the PS4. The PS3 engine has held this game back for ages.

It's all about frame rate. Foliage (really landscapes in general) are resource hogs if done correctly. When you account for all the physics (movement, wind, etc.), color shades, and mathematics behind every single blade of grass, you require a ton of computing power. Think about graphic intensive games. The biggest resource hogs are shadows, foliage, and landscape view distance. So if you turn down any of those three settings, you'll see massive frame rate increases.

The Show already has frame rate issues. Adding better grass and dirt will make this worse...unless, they can find a way to optimize graphics in other areas (specifically, shadows).

Idk man I think THE DRIVE CLUB has some of the best graphics ever with dynamic lighting and weather... I swear I can't win a race bcuz I always admire the beauty of that game and I think it's 2 years old now.

It is all about perception. With most racing games that look great (Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, etc.), the foliage is actually very rough. However, because people playing racing games don't actually slow down to look at grass up close, the low res textures go un-noticed. Basically, if you make the stationary objects look great (the car itself, road, etc.), everything else will be perceived as the same quality in-game.

[Br_Mac16]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

I don't really think a massive overhaul in grass and dirt texture needs to take place. To me the biggest issue is coloring. The grass has looked splotchy and inconsistent since 2010. In my opinion, if you look at MLB 09 on PS3 the grass was far better than any other version.
The other issue is grass patterns. While some patterns look great others are a real detriment to the appearance of the field. I do think the cut patterns have come a long a way in the past 2 years but if they made the grass color more consistent throughout, it would look so much better.
As far as the dirt, I didn't really think this was bad. I though it was great when they incorporated moisture in the dirt. However, the dirt should be wet again around the 6th inning
JD

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

No game competes with modded versions of Skyrim or Fallout 4. You can get some crazy good grass and dirt. Of course, good luck running the game at an acceptable framerate. I've got a godly computer that I've spent extensive time tuning and perfecting, and I still have to be conservative when choosing what graphical mods to use in those two games. People usually only use the super demanding mods for screen archery (where the goal is to get amazing screenshots as opposed to actually playing the game).

I'm a big follower of the modding community of those two games, and from what I understand, Bethesda likes the fact that modders can one up them. The dev has limited resources, and has to build an entire game within an acceptable timeframe. Meanwhile a modder can focus on just one aspect of the game, and has a theoretically infinite timeline, so of course they are going to do a better job than the dev.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that my entire post is useless, because it's not fair to compare a modder's work to something studio developed.

Good foliage is hard.

[Cod]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

To give everyone an idea of what it takes to create fantastic, realistic grass, take a look at this: https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-.../start-here-em

Again, i'd love to see these things implemented in The Show, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Hopefully one of the developers will see this thread and give us some insight on how they currently develop the field of play.

[Turbojugend]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that my entire post is useless, because it's not fair to compare a modder's work to something studio developed.

Yeah, but can you imagine what a modded version of The Show might look like? Tons of custom unis, authentic stadium ads, new field textures, and just about anything else you can think of. I understand the reasons why it will never ever happen, but it's fun to think about.

[Cod]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Yeah, but can you imagine what a modded version of The Show might look like? Tons of custom unis, authentic stadium ads, new field textures, and just about anything else you can think of. I understand the reasons why it will never ever happen, but it's fun to think about.

If we could only convince Sony to release the game on PC...

Dreaming is fun!

[MythicalGnome]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

It's all about frame rate. Foliage (really landscapes in general) are resource hogs if done correctly. When you account for all the physics (movement, wind, etc.), color shades, and mathematics behind every single blade of grass, you require a ton of computing power. Think about graphic intensive games. The biggest resource hogs are shadows, foliage, and landscape view distance. So if you turn down any of those three settings, you'll see massive frame rate increases.

The Show already has frame rate issues. Adding better grass and dirt will make this worse...unless, they can find a way to optimize graphics in other areas (specifically, shadows).


It is all about perception. With most racing games that look great (Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, etc.), the foliage is actually very rough. However, because people playing racing games don't actually slow down to look at grass up close, the low res textures go un-noticed. Basically, if you make the stationary objects look great (the car itself, road, etc.), everything else will be perceived as the same quality in-game.

The Show has been and still is running on a core engine designed for a decade plus old hardware. It has nothing to do with anything related to grass and draw distance. The Show is not in any way doing more than something like Driveclub, or Dying Light, or GTA5, or Witcher 3, nor will it ever have to. There is no constant movement in The Show except for ballpark things. They have almost no draw distance to account for but what is in the stadium. There is almost no moving foliage in the entire game.

Yes, there is a lot that goes into ballparks and recreating them in 3D. But the PS4 is a very capable console. The problem is their engine is nowhere near ready to handle next-gen stuff. We even have a PS4 Pro now. There is no excuse for any of this.

We are literally talking about making the grass a proper color for each stadium. This has nothing to do with performance issues. It has to do with the team not caring about being a sim anymore. 2K did grass better than The Show on PS3 lol.

Better textures on the grass should be leading to absolutely no performance issues either. We are not even talking about having 3d grass right now. A modder could have had better textures and grass coloring on each stadium in 3 months! I can guarantee you that. Yet it takes 8 years for anything to happen with an 80 man team?

The grass in this game is beyond pathetic. It's terrible. It's been terrible for years upon years. And yet no one steps up to do anything with it. There really is no excuse for this IMO. But priorities. Apparently, The Show devs think their grass accurately recreates the in a ballpark feel you have when you go to a stadium.

About all it recreates for me is playing on a console in 2002. I honestly cannot even believe we are talking about something that looks so bad in 2017. Every other sports game with grass looks better than The Show at this point.

[countryboy]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

The Show has been and still is running on a core engine designed for a decade plus old hardware. It has nothing to do with anything related to grass and draw distance. The Show is not in any way doing more than something like Driveclub, or Dying Light, or GTA5, or Witcher 3, nor will it ever have to. There is no constant movement in The Show except for ballpark things. They have almost no draw distance to account for but what is in the stadium. There is almost no moving foliage in the entire game.

Yes, there is a lot that goes into ballparks and recreating them in 3D. But the PS4 is a very capable console. The problem is their engine is nowhere near ready to handle next-gen stuff. We even have a PS4 Pro now. There is no excuse for any of this.

We are literally talking about making the grass a proper color for each stadium. This has nothing to do with performance issues. It has to do with the team not caring about being a sim anymore. 2K did grass better than The Show on PS3 lol.

Better textures on the grass should be leading to absolutely no performance issues either. We are not even talking about having 3d grass right now. A modder could have had better textures and grass coloring on each stadium in 3 months! I can guarantee you that. Yet it takes 8 years for anything to happen with an 80 man team?

The grass in this game is beyond pathetic. It's terrible. It's been terrible for years upon years. And yet no one steps up to do anything with it. There really is no excuse for this IMO. But priorities. Apparently, The Show devs think their grass accurately recreates the in a ballpark feel you have when you go to a stadium.

About all it recreates for me is playing on a console in 2002. I honestly cannot even believe we are talking about something that looks so bad in 2017. Every other sports game with grass looks better than The Show at this point.

I was wondering how long it would take for a statement like this to be made. I'm sure this statement is as 100% fact as the rest of your post.

[Cod]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

The Show has been and still is running on a core engine designed for a decade plus old hardware. It has nothing to do with anything related to grass and draw distance. The Show is not in any way doing more than something like Driveclub, or Dying Light, or GTA5, or Witcher 3, nor will it ever have to. There is no constant movement in The Show except for ballpark things. They have almost no draw distance to account for but what is in the stadium. There is almost no moving foliage in the entire game.

I agree with you about the draw distance and constant movement. Baseball game development is much easier in this sense.

Yes, there is a lot that goes into ballparks and recreating them in 3D. But the PS4 is a very capable console. The problem is their engine is nowhere near ready to handle next-gen stuff. We even have a PS4 Pro now. There is no excuse for any of this.

I also agree with you about the engine SCEA is using. Unfortunately, the graphics engine is not the only thing that is dated. The animation and physics engines are also becoming relics. You have to understand though, rebuilding a game engine takes a lot of man power and hours. Its something they cannot do because of the annual release cycle. Unless, they license an engine from another company or game within Sony. This is exactly what EA did by implementing the Frostbite engine into their sports games. Since most of Sony's franchises use in-house engines developed specifically to a studio, this is unlikely to happen.

We are literally talking about making the grass a proper color for each stadium. This has nothing to do with performance issues. It has to do with the team not caring about being a sim anymore. 2K did grass better than The Show on PS3 lol.

I will hold judgement until I see proof of both (The Show vs real life side-by-side and The Show vs MLB2k side-by-side).

Better textures on the grass should be leading to absolutely no performance issues either. We are not even talking about having 3d grass right now. A modder could have had better textures and grass coloring on each stadium in 3 months! I can guarantee you that. Yet it takes 8 years for anything to happen with an 80 man team?

Remodeling the grass to be more realistic would definitely cause a hit on performance. Take Skyrim for example. If you use one of the flora overhaul mods, you're going to take a performance hit..specifically to vRAM usage. **PS4 does not use vRAM in the traditional sense. It utilizes an extra 2GB DDR3 of system memory. Concepts still apply though.**

The grass in this game is beyond pathetic. It's terrible. It's been terrible for years upon years. And yet no one steps up to do anything with it. There really is no excuse for this IMO. But priorities. Apparently, The Show devs think their grass accurately recreates the in a ballpark feel you have when you go to a stadium.

About all it recreates for me is playing on a console in 2002. I honestly cannot even believe we are talking about something that looks so bad in 2017. Every other sports game with grass looks better than The Show at this point.

Have you shared these concerns in the official wishlists threads on here and The Show Nation? Heck, you can probably share them via Twitter, Facebook, etc. if you want to get someone's attention.

[breakfastcat]

Re: Best grass and dirt fields in a video game?

Have you shared these concerns in the official wishlists threads on here and The Show Nation? Heck, you can probably share them via Twitter, Facebook, etc. if you want to get someone's attention.

People have been complaining about the grass and dirt textures for years. This isn't new, there's no way the developers aren't aware that people are dissatisfied. They really aren't wrong either. Close up, the grass looks fine, but when you get far enough away where you can see texture that shows the grass pattern, it turns into a splotchy low-res mess and has been that way for a long time. Maybe it's not as bad as that guy you quoted makes it out to be, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. Especially in a game where the stadiums and lighting look stunning, things like low-res grass textures (and mediocre player models, but that's a whole separate issue) are really going to stick out, and will keep the game from being one of best looking games of this generation like it was in the PS3 gen.