CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
I've played enough franchise games now to be certain that this is a major problem. I don't know if lots of people are playing online or waiting to start their franchises or what, but this is a constant, intrusive problem.
Example from my last game: Gausman is pitching for the Orioles. He's given up 1 run on 3 hits in the first 4 innings, throwing 65 pitches. He starts the 5th and gives up a ground ball single. Next batter pops up on the infield.
Then he gets pulled for a reliever. After 4.1 IP, 70ish pitches, 4 hits, 1 run.
Yikes. This is happening in virtually every game.
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
I'm starting to see the light here - not just about why the logic is what it is, but also why I don't see the issue in my full games. And all I can say is: be very, VERY careful about what you wish for.
These are Max Scherzer's last moments in a Play Now game I just played at my normal settings (which is HOF Default):
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gFe_WpKHquE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
There's nothing wrong with that pull. At all. In fact i was a little surprised it even left him in to start the 7th. And as I showed, the settings are all default.
So what's going on? The thing is, he's at 100 pitches by the 7th inning. This happens a lot more frequently in MLB than some of you may realize. My hitting approach in this game has been such that I worked his count up that high that quickly. And for me at least, it's pretty common.
What happens beyond this point for a starter in this game is strongly determined by game situation - score, runners on, whether the pitcher is dominating (i.e. shutout). And the management AI is very quick to use the hook in this game if it feels like it can benefit from a better matchup.
I'm just going to guess (this is NOT an indictment on anyone's play style) that a lot of people who play this game, even on OS, cannot work a pitcher's pitch count this high at this point in the game. If a starter enters the late innings with a low pitch count due to that, the AI might be ignoring that pitch count in favor of late-game matchups and trying to put its team in the best possible position to win the game.
I saw the same kind of logic in a CPU vs CPU game on ArmorAndSword's stream earlier (typically the CPU is very good at working pitch counts as well), and between that and this game, it just sort of clicked in my head. Millennium's pretty good at working pitch counts too (on the same settings as me), and he's been saying on his stream that he doesn't really see the issue. It all fits.
That's what I've got, and it's probably the opinion I'll stick with unless/until we hear something from the devs. There's not really any other explanation for why this typically doesn't affect me as harshly.
Note: as I said before, QC is a different animal entirely. I'm not applying any of the above theory to that mode.Comment
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
Not sure why this is happening,but i just played Qc manage mode game and the nats took out Roark leading 7-1 in the 4th 1 out and he had thrown 59 pitches!!Baffling!!Hoping it's a Qc thing and they can tune in a patch.If not i may have to switch back to full manage mode.
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
I'm starting to see the light here - not just about why the logic is what it is, but also why I don't see the issue in my full games. And all I can say is: be very, VERY careful about what you wish for.
These are Max Scherzer's last moments in a Play Now game I just played at my normal settings (which is HOF Default):
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gFe_WpKHquE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
There's nothing wrong with that pull. At all. In fact i was a little surprised it even left him in to start the 7th. And as I showed, the settings are all default.
So what's going on? The thing is, he's at 100 pitches by the 7th inning. This happens a lot more frequently in MLB than some of you may realize. My hitting approach in this game has been such that I worked his count up that high that quickly. And for me at least, it's pretty common.
What happens beyond this point for a starter in this game is strongly determined by game situation - score, runners on, whether the pitcher is dominating (i.e. shutout). And the management AI is very quick to use the hook in this game if it feels like it can benefit from a better matchup.
I'm just going to guess (this is NOT an indictment on anyone's play style) that a lot of people who play this game, even on OS, cannot work a pitcher's pitch count this high at this point in the game. If a starter enters the late innings with a low pitch count due to that, the AI might be ignoring that pitch count in favor of late-game matchups and trying to put its team in the best possible position to win the game.
I saw the same kind of logic in a CPU vs CPU game on ArmorAndSword's stream earlier (typically the CPU is very good at working pitch counts as well), and between that and this game, it just sort of clicked in my head. Millennium's pretty good at working pitch counts too (on the same settings as me), and he's been saying on his stream that he doesn't really see the issue. It all fits.
That's what I've got, and it's probably the opinion I'll stick with unless/until we hear something from the devs. There's not really any other explanation for why this typically doesn't affect me as harshly.
Note: as I said before, QC is a different animal entirely. I'm not applying any of the above theory to that mode.
Excellent write up.
Thanks for the info bcruise
Sent from my iPhone using Operation SportsI can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.
I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(
Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis CardinalsComment
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
To be honest my issue is the complete opposite. The CPU has a tendency to leave their pitchers going until he pitchers energy bar is barely visible anymore. An example for this would be my series with the A's against the Royals. The first game of the series went about 16 innings or so until I finally won in the bottom half. The CPU let Mike Minor throw around 50 pitches in relief before they finally yanked him. It was also surprising to see him start in the third and final game in the series considering he was spent. I thought this was a bug that was corrected in last years version?Comment
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
I don't know, maybe because I play on legend and hits/runs are harder to come by. Just played a game against the Phils. It was the first game of the series. Eckhart gives up 1 run and 3 hits in 7 innings (99 pitches) The computer takes him out to begin the top of the 8th with their setup guy. Then still with a 2 run lead going to the 9th, the computer puts in their closer for a 3 out save. Granted I am not hitting well, but so far I have yet to encounter any of these issues others are experiencing. I will certainly be on the lookout though as I continue to play and should I experience the things mentioned in this thread, I will post what I saw. But right now, nothing unusual.
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
I have been playing franchise games day and night since Monday 9:30 pm.
Bcruise has been joining me on many of them as we have been looking for this.
Yet we have not seen one questionable pull as of yet.
I am not saying we don't have a potential issue, as too many people are reporting wonky CPU pitching logic.
But like Bcruise I work counts deep and get pitch counts higher earlier. It is not every single game but my goal is just that.
Also sometimes I get pitchers into high stress innings where they throw 25-27 pitches in one inning. It does take a toll and I am seeing more
"Humanity" AI and emotion this year.
Elite and front line starters are performing well, however they can be chased out too if you hit them or work counts a lot and get their pitch count up high early and "stress" them.
Right now you can see in my thread what CPU pitching settings we got going.
I am going to see if hook at 4 helps a little more.
But I actually like the logic more this year overall.
More playing and testing needs to be done though.
Let's keep this discussion going in this constructive manner.
We have more than enough experienced Show players here to help each other.
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CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I certainly believe that some people might not be seeing the same things as others. I have no idea how much setting settings and whatnot might play into it. I'm currently on dynamic difficulty, I think somewhere in the All Star range, it's early in the season, and I play with Quick Counts on.
More data points: I start to see wonky stuff in the 5th inning. That seems to be the tipping point. And it's always the mid-range or worse starters.
Here's a scenario that is playing out in front of me right now: I'm facing Liriano. He has given up 2 runs on 3 hits in 4 IP. The 2 runs came on a 2-run homer in the second inning. He has retired 6 straight since then and is at 60 pitches entering the 5th inning.
However, to start the 5th, the Blue Jays have double barreled action in the bullpen. Why? He's at 60 pitches and is not struggling in the slightest. I can virtually guarantee you that if I get a couple hits or score a run this inning, Liriano will be pulled.
Edit: after retiring the side in order in the 5th, and then getting the first two outs in the 6th, Liriano gave up an infield single with two outs in the 6th. He was then pulled in favor of a righty to face Hanley Ramirez.
5.2 IP, 4 hits, 2 ER, 80ish pitches, and the CPU starts playing matchups in the 6th inning.
I get that the CPU is looking at lines of code and not "pitcher was rolling before an infield single", but this still is wonky. The CPU is managing every series like it's the playoffs. They are burning through their bullpen, and it's April.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by BobSacamano; 04-01-2017, 08:10 AM.Comment
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
i believe stamina rating has more impact than the stamina sliders..... i increased majority starters with sub 80 stamina to 85-90
i.e. taylor jungman went 6 ip 8h 4er 1bb and 95 pitches, he had 1 bad inning where he gave up 3 runs but cruised through me rest of way...
i put his stamina to 87... i try to keep elite pitchers and guy with rubber arm (r.a. dickey) above 90
if anyone is interested i can upload my rosterToronto Maple Leafs
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
I have been playing franchise games day and night since Monday 9:30 pm.
Bcruise has been joining me on many of them as we have been looking for this.
Yet we have not seen one questionable pull as of yet.
I am not saying we don't have a potential issue, as too many people are reporting wonky CPU pitching logic.
But like Bcruise I work counts deep and get pitch counts higher earlier. It is not every single game but my goal is just that.
Also sometimes I get pitchers into high stress innings where they throw 25-27 pitches in one inning. It does take a toll and I am seeing more
"Humanity" AI and emotion this year.
Elite and front line starters are performing well, however they can be chased out too if you hit them or work counts a lot and get their pitch count up high early and "stress" them.
Right now you can see in my thread what CPU pitching settings we got going.
I am going to see if hook at 4 helps a little more.
But I actually like the logic more this year overall.
More playing and testing needs to be done though.
Let's keep this discussion going in this constructive manner.
We have more than enough experienced Show players here to help each other.
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
But yeah, lots of constructive feedback going on in this thread. People providing specific examples, and lots of very experienced The Show players too keep analyzing this.Comment
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
Twitch: MikeateyourkfcComment
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
Quick Manage this is a programming issue. Just had a situation where I came in to pitch in Top 6th with score 2-1. The pitcher batted while playing with bases loaded. I got out of inning and then went to bottom of 6th back to quick manage and as soon as I hit the swing button in quick manage they pulled the pitcher.
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Re: CPU SP problem (anyone else has it!?)
For those that aren't experiencing the SP problem, I guess you are lucky. I only play franchise and never online and I usually play with QC on. I started my franchise as the Indians and played my first six games against Tex and Arizona. In all 6 games I could not get a CPU starter to go more than 5 innings. In two out of three games against Tex, the starters were pulled after 4.1 innings regardless of the score. The longest a CPU starter went was 5.2 innings in a 0 to 0 game.
So I tried importing my franchise from 16 thinking this might just be an issue with the new franchise. But the same results after 4 games. I did get a CPU pitcher to go 5.2/3 in a 2 to 1 game I was winning.
I tried another game using a pitcher Grinkie from Arizona labeled as a work horse in his quirk and in a game that was tied 1 to 1 going into the fifth inning. He had struck out six and walked three had thrown only 68 pitches. With a man on second and two outs they let Grinkie bat in the bottom of the fifth. Then they brought in a reliever at the top pf the 6th. That is completely ridiculous. In another game they were winning 4 to nothing, ( I tried not to get any hits ) they still pulled there starter after six innings. he had only thrown 75 pitches. There is defiantly a problem here.
For me, This is a complete game killer. It takes the entire strategy out of the game and if you are a stat freak it ruins season stats. I have always loved the Show and it has been my favorite game. But this issue is big. There are several little issues like animation of bat contact on the ball, the third baseman acting like he is going to throw the ball into the dugout at times when an out fielder throws the ball to him and a few others.I can live with that.
I have tried setting the pitching hook slider to zero and changing the CPU starting pitcher stamina to 99. But nothing works. I can only hope this SP glitch gets patched immediately. If not, it's back to 16 or just season or live play. The dev team has always been pretty good about patching things, I truly hope they don't over look this one.When I do something right, No one ever remembers.
When I do something wrong, No one ever forgets.!Comment
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