OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

[335TDC]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

Hey BillPeener, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I don't do the huge multi-quote thing, but here are my thoughts on what you wrote.

First, the implausibility of coming up with something entirely new (baseball per se, video games, etc.) is very different from the implausibility of changing the practices of a very entrenched, very profitable industry. Industry inertia is a real thing, and when real money is on the line -- and being made -- studios/businesses hold the line and any changes will be ones that don't threaten the overall stability of the bottom line. The DoI said it best: "...all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." This goes for pretty much ANYTHING in the core human experience, even video game development (and whiny players who complain on message boards and STILL play the game...!)

Second, it's not hypocritical to hope for/predict some very real, simple changes that could be added to the mode for next year. It's POSSIBLE (haha) that SCEA might add a second person to Franchise, and even if they don't, it's quite realistic to hope/predict that a couple of things like in-season contracts, ticket prices/budget control, year-round scouting, and team statuses (rebuilding/selling, contending/buying) could be added to next year's game.

I think if you really want to pursue this, your best strategy would be to "ambush" Russel or one of the other devs during a Q and A and really make your case. Of course, the problem is that the sites that run those things will run interference because they don't want to jeopardize their relationships with SCEA.

Keep up the good fight, my friend.

[BDKiiing]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

Non-roster invites.

[BillPeener]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

while the trade logic is weak, I don't find it that much worse than a lot of the default ai-trade logic on OOTP (if we're going to use OOTP in discussions). Granted, you can tailor it a little, but even on the OOTP boards there's all sorts of discussion about fair and unfair trades.

Interesting that you don't find it much worse. I haven't played OOTP in 5 years, though I'm sure their forums are filled with complainers. The Show's trade system is just so fantastic. I shouldn't be able to throw every possible scenario at every GM, getting their immediate yes / no feedback. That's not just weak trade logic - that's a completely unrealistic system. It'd be a different matter if the system was somewhat realistic - imagine a GM gets tired of you calling with 100 proposals and blocks your number for a week - and we take issue with the weak logic behind that GM's decision.

franchise, expanding, changing the league structure....being able to personalize your MLB universe would be excellent. They've got a decent uniform builder in place. The stadium's would likely be difficult, but could be done if they added 5-7, say, custom stadiums (much harder to do the module thing with baseball than NHL or NBA which have regulation size playing surfaces).

+1

In the end, though, Franchise is certainly a playable, enjoyable, if still somewhat flawed mode. It gets love and I'm not personally offended by the development of the mode. I'd love to see it get some more attention, as while DD and RTTS are fun, Franchise is probably my favorite mode, I don't find it to be a bad mode, either.

It's definitely playable, and it's more enjoyable when I give up realism and play the mode as it's designed. Oh, my player has a 10 point rating drop because he's mad about his contract? Let's roll with it. If we approach it that way, Franchise mode does basically work. And I guess that's better than not.

[BillPeener]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

First, the implausibility of coming up with something entirely new (baseball per se, video games, etc.) is very different from the implausibility of changing the practices of a very entrenched, very profitable industry. Industry inertia is a real thing, and when real money is on the line -- and being made -- studios/businesses hold the line and any changes will be ones that don't threaten the overall stability of the bottom line. The DoI said it best: "...all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." This goes for pretty much ANYTHING in the core human experience, even video game development (and whiny players who complain on message boards and STILL play the game...!)

True. The plausibility of the teams merging, collaborating, or even just consulting with one-another comes down to convincing them with a sound business proposal.

Second, it's not hypocritical to hope for/predict some very real, simple changes that could be added to the mode for next year. It's POSSIBLE (haha) that SCEA might add a second person to Franchise, and even if they don't, it's quite realistic to hope/predict that a couple of things like in-season contracts, ticket prices/budget control, year-round scouting, and team statuses (rebuilding/selling, contending/buying) could be added to next year's game.

Regardless of hypocrisy, it seems like a pipe dream to expect SCEA to suddenly change their approach, especially if they feel their profits are already high enough. The only way I can imagine them changing is if an outside source acts as a catalyst for change. Something has to change in order for SCEA to change their approach.

I think if you really want to pursue this, your best strategy would be to "ambush" Russel or one of the other devs during a Q and A and really make your case. Of course, the problem is that the sites that run those things will run interference because they don't want to jeopardize their relationships with SCEA.

Since these are companies, maybe our best strategy is to create a thorough business proposal that shows them how they stand to benefit from improving parts of Franchise mode. They might take us more seriously if we approach them more professionally and in large numbers. I'm picturing the Declaration of Independence, with all of the signatures, lol.

Keep up the good fight, my friend.

You too, thanks and look forward to talking more.

[335TDC]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

Regardless of hypocrisy, it seems like a pipe dream to expect SCEA to suddenly change their approach, especially if they feel their profits are already high enough. The only way I can imagine them changing is if an outside source acts as a catalyst for change. Something has to change in order for SCEA to change their approach.



Since these are companies, maybe our best strategy is to create a thorough business proposal that shows them how they stand to benefit from improving parts of Franchise mode. They might take us more seriously if we approach them more professionally and in large numbers. I'm picturing the Declaration of Independence, with all of the signatures, lol.

All respect to you.

For the first part, I'm incredulous that you think it's a pipe-dream for the Show to make small but meaningful improvements to the mode. ALL sports games seek to do that -- it's not changing their approach at all. I respectfully chuckle here because what you're proposing -- in theory and in practice -- makes the term pipe-dream seem like a euphemism...

For the second part, without any data other than good ole common sense, I'd predict that they DON'T stand to benefit in any meaningful way (i.e., financial) from the merger. People who like Franchise mode will still buy the Show each year anyway, and many of us also buy OOTP. Even if the Show came out tomorrow and said, "For this Dev cycle we're out to make the sickest, most in-depth Franchise mode ever created on a console sports game," sales would be pretty much the same. We the Franchise People already buy it...

I also don't get how someone would just pop in "non-roster invites" when the CORE of the Franchise -- realistic cpu-generated prospects with realistic attribute distributions and a solid progression engine that gets them MLB ready by a realistic age -- needs so much work. People who shoot these ideas out must not really play the mode for several in-game years and probably just brainstorm for "cool features IRL." If the mode has non-roster invites next year but the same prospects, scouting, draft, and progression, what the hell have we gained? Sorry to pop off, but priorities.

[BillPeener]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

For the first part, I'm incredulous that you think it's a pipe-dream for the Show to make small but meaningful improvements to the mode. ALL sports games seek to do that -- it's not changing their approach at all. I respectfully chuckle here because what you're proposing -- in theory and in practice -- makes the term pipe-dream seem like a euphemism...

How much progress has Franchise mode made in each year of the Show? I'd like to see a year-by-year history showing what changes were made and how many developers were working on it each year. That would give us good indication of how much progress is plausible. Until I see significant improvements on the highest priority issues, then I remain skeptical of the plausibility of them fixing what we want.

In '17, they proved to us that they think player Tweets and quirks are a higher priority than mid-season contracts and [insert other high priority issues]. Doesn't that indicate a change in approach is needed? Why are they suddenly going to rearrange their priorities? To me, it's a pipe-dream to think they're going to shift directions without motivation that extends beyond the need for typical, yearly changes.

EDIT: It's also possible that contracts are a higher priority than Tweets, but it's just more difficult and time-consuming. Doubt it, but that is a possibility.

For the second part, without any data other than good ole common sense, I'd predict that they DON'T stand to benefit in any meaningful way (i.e., financial) from the merger. People who like Franchise mode will still buy the Show each year anyway, and many of us also buy OOTP. Even if the Show came out tomorrow and said, "For this Dev cycle we're out to make the sickest, most in-depth Franchise mode ever created on a console sports game," sales would be pretty much the same. We the Franchise People already buy it...

I don't have any data on this either, but common sense tells me The Show is far less profitable than another sport or genre. I can't imagine baseball brings in anywhere near the revenue they could make on another football or Halo type game. It would be interesting to see how much profit SCEA loses every year choosing to work on baseball and not another type of game.

I also don't get how someone would just pop in "non-roster invites" when the CORE of the Franchise -- realistic cpu-generated prospects with realistic attribute distributions and a solid progression engine that gets them MLB ready by a realistic age -- needs so much work. People who shoot these ideas out must not really play the mode for several in-game years and probably just brainstorm for "cool features IRL." If the mode has non-roster invites next year but the same prospects, scouting, draft, and progression, what the hell have we gained? Sorry to pop off, but priorities.

I agree. Maybe we should devote our time to putting together an exhaustive, ordered list of Franchise wishes, ordered by priority.

[tessl]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

True. The plausibility of the teams merging, collaborating, or even just consulting with one-another comes down to convincing them with a sound business proposal.



Regardless of hypocrisy, it seems like a pipe dream to expect SCEA to suddenly change their approach, especially if they feel their profits are already high enough. The only way I can imagine them changing is if an outside source acts as a catalyst for change. Something has to change in order for SCEA to change their approach.



Since these are companies, maybe our best strategy is to create a thorough business proposal that shows them how they stand to benefit from improving parts of Franchise mode. They might take us more seriously if we approach them more professionally and in large numbers. I'm picturing the Declaration of Independence, with all of the signatures, lol.



You too, thanks and look forward to talking more.

A lot more is possible with a PC because of the lack of restriction on file size which could be a limiting factor in bringing their deep franchise to the Show.

Even is that is possible the actions of the Show dev team over the last couple years indicates they are not interested in a deeper franchise mode. Quick counts, quick manage and critical moments are all designed for people who don't have time to be bothered.

On the flip side OOTP could add a couple developers to give the game state of the art gameplay and graphics. If that happened you would see a mass exodus from the show to OOTP. The reason I don't play OOTP is the graphics.

[BillPeener]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

Even is that is possible the actions of the Show dev team over the last couple years indicates they are not interested in a deeper franchise mode. Quick counts, quick manage and critical moments are all designed for people who don't have time to be bothered.

I agree they're made for people who don't have as much time (I love quick counts), but how does that indicate they don't care about a deeper franchise mode? One of the worst parts about Franchise mode in baseball games is all the time spent on trivial stuff. The faster play options make it easier for me to get through an entire season. I would agree that it might be another indication of perhaps poorly ordered priorities.

On the flip side OOTP could add a couple developers to give the game state of the art gameplay and graphics. If that happened you would see a mass exodus from the show to OOTP. The reason I don't play OOTP is the graphics.

For me, they would have to add The Show's developers or find a similarly talented team. If all OOTP could put together was an archaic in-game mode that inevitably raises the game's price and inevitably makes it more buggy / unbalanced, I'd rather not.

[tessl]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

I agree they're made for people who don't have as much time (I love quick counts), but how does that indicate they don't care about a deeper franchise mode? One of the worst parts about Franchise mode in baseball games is all the time spent on trivial stuff. The faster play options make it easier for me to get through an entire season. I would agree that it might be another indication of perhaps poorly ordered priorities.

People using quick counts are complaining the pitcher is being pulled after 3 innings. Now the devs will spend time fixing that. Meanwhile full count manage mode isn't playable because of lack of offense. They add the gimmick stuff and then they have to spend time getting it to work properly. I don't know whether quick manage is working because I'm not sure anybody uses it but if there are problems that's more time spent fixing what is essentially a gimmick.

Meanwhile the base mode isn't working properly.

[335TDC]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

People using quick counts are complaining the pitcher is being pulled after 3 innings. Now the devs will spend time fixing that. Meanwhile full count manage mode isn't playable because of lack of offense. They add the gimmick stuff and then they have to spend time getting it to work properly. I don't know whether quick manage is working because I'm not sure anybody uses it but if there are problems that's more time spent fixing what is essentially a gimmick.

Meanwhile the base mode isn't working properly.

Quick Manage is a great feature since it operates like a multiple player lock. I use it when I don't want to pitch and just focus on a few of my hitters, or I can come in when my pitcher gets in a jam. It needs some tweaking, but would rather SCEA work on core stuff like scouting, prospects, etc.

[Caulfield]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

What options do we have for making Franchise Mode a higher priority for the developers?

From what I've been reading, the developers don't put Franchise Mode high on their priority list because market research puts more value into arcade / online modes. I don't know what percentage of Show customers use Franchise mode, but I have to think it's a significant number. 20%? 40?

Here are the options I can think of:

1. We speak up as effectively as we can, perhaps putting a petition together or even a petition group that periodically messages the developers with our wish list.

I'm new to the Show community, so I don't know how developer interaction works. Do our OS posts have any affect on development, or are we just preaching to the choir?

So, what are we going to do about it? Are we going to sit on our hands, or is there some tangible, significant action we can take as a group to let SCEA know how much Franchise Mode means to us?

band together, each franchise lover buy 5 copies of the Show, inflate your numbers.
You can call it the $350 Club. Actions speak louder than words, i.e. money talks bs walks.

[Culture Rot]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

If they could find a method to profit from it with micro transactions similar to Diamond Dynasty, I believe it would quickly become a priority.

[335TDC]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

If they could find a method to profit from it with micro transactions similar to Diamond Dynasty, I believe it would quickly become a priority.

Hit the nail on the head.

[BillPeener]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

If they could find a method to profit from it with micro transactions similar to Diamond Dynasty, I believe it would quickly become a priority.

What could the transactions be used for?

[tessl]

Re: OS community: How can we improve Franchise Mode?

What could the transactions be used for?

Probably depends on how many people buy them but maybe a new lunch room at San Diego Studios?