My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

SDS do not fix hitting but give the user the ability to move the pci sweet spot outside the zone a bit, perhaps a ball's length...


BTW guys if you get your pci on a high inside fastball right on the ball it means your batter isn't getting the ball while it's out in FRONT of him but while the bat is still over the plate which will cause him to drive it opposite field or at best up the middle.

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

This game was terrible this year. Real problem when it's better to be late on an inside fastball than right on.

if you are right on it meaning you got the pci straight on it you are basically telling your batter to push the ball off the bat. when you get the pci straight on it that means your bat made contact with the ball while the bat was over the plate but not when the bat was out in front of the player which is why you didn't pull it with any authority.

Guys, think about how a bat is swung. A good swing will eventually be out in front of a batter on the inner half of the plate but OUT in front which is where you want the bat to be to pull a fastball.

The PCI merely represents where the sweet spot crossed the plate meaning if you leave the pci in the middle and simply just try to match the plane of the pitch eventually it will reach that inside pitch but out in front of his body. You may have to swing early but that makes sense anyway for inside heat.

Use swing influence as well to change your batters swing path which can be used for zone / buttons as well and this will decide where you need to place your pci and will determine where you need to put your pci to pull a pitch. NOT TALKING ABOUT DIRECTIONAL. I've pulled pitches and the visual feedback showed the pci to be at least a balls length from the pci! But I was early and stayed inside the ball.

[redsfan4life]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

if you are right on it meaning you got the pci straight on it you are basically telling your batter to push the ball off the bat. when you get the pci straight on it that means your bat made contact with the ball while the bat was over the plate but not when the bat was out in front of the player which is why you didn't pull it with any authority.

Guys, think about how a bat is swung. A good swing will eventually be out in front of a batter on the inner half of the plate but OUT in front which is where you want the bat to be to pull a fastball.

The PCI merely represents where the sweet spot crossed the plate meaning if you leave the pci in the middle and simply just try to match the plane of the pitch eventually it will reach that inside pitch but out in front of his body. You may have to swing early but that makes sense anyway for inside heat.

Use swing influence as well to change your batters swing path which can be used for zone / buttons as well and this will decide where you need to place your pci and will determine where you need to put your pci to pull a pitch. NOT TALKING ABOUT DIRECTIONAL. I've pulled pitches and the visual feedback showed the pci to be at least a balls length from the pci! But I was early and stayed inside the ball.

Well you can't hit an inside pitch AT ALL with early timing or its going 10,000 feet foul. Face it hitting sucked this year. The only hits you can get with early timing are on outside pitches...which makes NO sense. This game is garbage competitively (online) after being rock solid for years. Last year was a massive step back, and one they need to address quickly.

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

yes you can you just need to get your pci outside of the pitch! i've done it online on legend with a pitcher for heavens sake! fastball!

go to hitting practise, change the pitchers pitch repetoire to fastball, sinker, two seam fastball. make them all the same speed. and turn down the movement then go into practise with bat control and leave your pci in the middle and you will hit that inside pitch while its out in front of your batter and you will pull it fair if done right.

the reason people aren't pulling that pitch with authority using zone is because they are putting their pci right on the inside and even though they are squaring it up the bat is not out in front of the player so basically you are trying to push the ball out which is not realistic therefore people are getting line drives to opposite field and pop ups and that is realistic.

the batters sweet spot doesn't cross one single location, the pci records that sweet spot as it is crossing the plate but not where the bat makes contact with the ball which is why sometimes you crush pitches and the pci isn't even on the ball! Think you guys instead of complaining about the game. Its you not the game! SDS has done a great job with hitting this year. I don't even own the game or system and i've figured it out.

[Padgoi]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

yes you can you just need to get your pci outside of the pitch! i've done it online on legend with a pitcher for heavens sake! fastball!

go to hitting practise, change the pitchers pitch repetoire to fastball, sinker, two seam fastball. make them all the same speed. and turn down the movement then go into practise with bat control and leave your pci in the middle and you will hit that inside pitch while its out in front of your batter and you will pull it fair if done right.

the reason people aren't pulling that pitch with authority using zone is because they are putting their pci right on the inside and even though they are squaring it up the bat is not out in front of the player so basically you are trying to push the ball out which is not realistic therefore people are getting line drives to opposite field and pop ups and that is realistic.

the batters sweet spot doesn't cross one single location, the pci records that sweet spot as it is crossing the plate but not where the bat makes contact with the ball which is why sometimes you crush pitches and the pci isn't even on the ball! Think you guys instead of complaining about the game. Its you not the game! SDS has done a great job with hitting this year. I don't even own the game or system and i've figured it out.

I think you are totally over-analyzing the hitting mechanic of this game. The developers have specifically stated that the PCI is a ZONE. Not once have they ever mentioned anything about what you said. Fact of the matter is that if an inside fastball is thrown and my PCI is on the inside of the plate and my timing says good, I am assuming that means my sweet spot is on the inside part of the plate at the right time, so the ball should be hit hard.

[jeffy777]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

The difficulty issue does really bother me. I want the CPU to use the best pitching logic possible regardless of whether I play on Veteran or All Star. On All Star, I feel like the PCI is often too small for me, so I feel like I need to switch to Veteran, but then the CPU logic becomes awful. There really needs to be a separate slider that adjusts the PCI size regardless of other difficulty settings.

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

I think you are totally over-analyzing the hitting mechanic of this game. The developers have specifically stated that the PCI is a ZONE. Not once have they ever mentioned anything about what you said. Fact of the matter is that if an inside fastball is thrown and my PCI is on the inside of the plate and my timing says good, I am assuming that means my sweet spot is on the inside part of the plate at the right time, so the ball should be hit hard.

Russell has explained what determines a good hit including a variety of factors which ended up sounding exactly like my explanation of hitting for 16 on the show nation.

getting your pci to the inside doesn't mean you will hit the ball while it is out in front of you. it means your sweet spot will cross the back of the plate at that moment which means your bat angle will be pointing towards opposite field at contact or up the middle at best and if you are too early it will hit the end of the bat for a pop up or weak grounder but eventually your sweet spot will be out in front of you but on the inside part but OFF the plate.

go and swing a bat and tell me if your sweet spot stays over one part of the plate throughout the whole swing. if so you are doing it wrong!

i will give SDS credit for introducing a deep mechanic.
some of you are just too arrogant to figure it out and post after post its people whining about the same thing! "even if i get my pci right on its either a lazy pop fly or opposite field"
. BAT ANGLE. physics. damn. figure it folks.

"Never assume, when you assume you make an ******* out of yourself"

other than your hitting critique I actually agree with your post but for gods sake just try and test out my approach before SDS changes the mechanics and actually screws it up.

leave the pci in the middle. go to bat control. pick a pitcher and edit him so that he only has three fastballs and simply match the plane of the pitch and swing a little early on the inside heat and see what happens. no great hitter is pushing there bat straight through the zone.

[Padgoi]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

Russell has explained what determines a good hit including a variety of factors which ended up sounding exactly like my explanation of hitting for 16 on the show nation.

getting your pci to the inside doesn't mean you will hit the ball while it is out in front of you. it means your sweet spot will cross the back of the plate at that moment which means your bat angle will be pointing towards opposite field at contact or up the middle at best and if you are too early it will hit the end of the bat for a pop up or weak grounder but eventually your sweet spot will be out in front of you but on the inside part but OFF the plate.

go and swing a bat and tell me if your sweet spot stays over one part of the plate throughout the whole swing. if so you are doing it wrong!

i will give SDS credit for introducing a deep mechanic.
some of you are just too arrogant to figure it out and post after post its people whining about the same thing! "even if i get my pci right on its either a lazy pop fly or opposite field"
. BAT ANGLE. physics. damn. figure it folks.

"Never assume, when you assume you make an ******* out of yourself"

other than your hitting critique I actually agree with your post but for gods sake just try and test out my approach before SDS changes the mechanics and actually screws it up.

leave the pci in the middle. go to bat control. pick a pitcher and edit him so that he only has three fastballs and simply match the plane of the pitch and swing a little early on the inside heat and see what happens. no great hitter is pushing there bat straight through the zone.

I understand your logic on inside pitches, but how about on pitches right down the middle where my pci is right on it and my swing timing is good? Should that not result in solid contact? If the pitch is down the middle and my pci is down the middle and my swing timing is good, then the sweet part of the bat should be reaching the ball at a very opportune time. And if that is so, then why do so many of these exact instances lead to shallow pop flies? If you can explain that to me rationally, perhaps I'll entertain your hypothesis.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

I understand your logic on inside pitches, but how about on pitches right down the middle where my pci is right on it and my swing timing is good? Should that not result in solid contact? If the pitch is down the middle and my pci is down the middle and my swing timing is good, then the sweet part of the bat should be reaching the ball at a very opportune time. And if that is so, then why do so many of these exact instances lead to shallow pop flies? If you can explain that to me rationally, perhaps I'll entertain your hypothesis.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

well Russel did say the hitting mechanics mimic a round ball hitting a round bat .

things to consider are the height of the batter and the angle the pitch is coming in at. pull or push hitter? using contact or normal swing? pitch type? batter stance?

we gotta stop relying on the swing feedback timing aspect because I don't think it considers these things. in your case was it a lefty vs righty /vice versa or were hitter and pitcher same handedness?

again the location of the pci is not an indication of where the ball made contact with the bat. its the zone / the path your bat TOOK to the ball, or where it started its path to the ball.

[Padgoi]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

well Russel did say the hitting mechanics mimic a round ball hitting a round bat .

things to consider are the height of the batter and the angle the pitch is coming in at. pull or push hitter? using contact or normal swing? pitch type? batter stance?

we gotta stop relying on the swing feedback timing aspect because I don't think it considers these things. in your case was it a lefty vs righty /vice versa or were hitter and pitcher same handedness?

again the location of the pci is not an indication of where the ball made contact with the bat. its the zone / the path your bat TOOK to the ball, or where it started its path to the ball.

And again, that's the EXACT point of this thread. You're so busy trying to defend the game and explain your rationale that you ignored the entire point of the thread. The pci should NOT be a zone because that puts way too much control into the hands of the game. The game basically dictates if it's time to get a hit or not based on where it places the bat in the zone. This defies logic and physics entirely. Instead of our hitting being physics based, it's based on ratings and score of the game and whether the game decided it was time to get a hit. Your logic behind inside pitches made some sense, but trying to defend the hitting by asking height of the batter and swing plane of the bat are total and complete reaches. The facts are that the pci is a zone as per the developers and that alone allows the game itself to dictate whether a ball is hit hard or not. You want us to ignore the pci? What's the point of adding it to the game? You want me to see your point but you're totally ignoring mine.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

And again, that's the EXACT point of this thread. You're so busy trying to defend the game and explain your rationale that you ignored the entire point of the thread. The pci should NOT be a zone because that puts way too much control into the hands of the game. The game basically dictates if it's time to get a hit or not based on where it places the bat in the zone. This defies logic and physics entirely. Instead of our hitting being physics based, it's based on ratings and score of the game and whether the game decided it was time to get a hit. Your logic behind inside pitches made some sense, but trying to defend the hitting by asking height of the batter and swing plane of the bat are total and complete reaches. The facts are that the pci is a zone as per the developers and that alone allows the game itself to dictate whether a ball is hit hard or not. You want us to ignore the pci? What's the point of adding it to the game? You want me to see your point but you're totally ignoring mine.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

simply put. i am saying the feedback shows where your batter started their swing path.

as the user you need to factor in what kind of tendency your batter has to pull or push which will determine where that path ends up and you adjust accordingly.

i simply said ignore the timing factor on the feedback because I don't think it can take as many things into consideration.

to me the the pci represents where in the ZONE i am going to begin my batters swing path and based on what kind of swing my batter has will determine how I adjust to each pitch mid pitch on a pitch to pitch basis.

[djep]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

I think the OP is looking for a more arcade experience and I say that not in a way that elevates sim vs. arcade. With MLB the Show, I prefer a stats-driven sim experience so I have no issues with the game dictating outcomes based on some user input. With NBA 2K, I prefer a more arcade experience vs. people who choose to use Real FT and/or FG shooting percentages.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

I think the OP is looking for a more arcade experience and I say that not in a way that elevates sim vs. arcade. With MLB the Show, I prefer a stats-driven sim experience so I have no issues with the game dictating outcomes based on some user input. With NBA 2K, I prefer a more arcade experience vs. people who choose to use Real FT and/or FG shooting percentages.

Very well stated.

The Show does an amazing job with random dice roll results based on statistics and ratings.

For me and the way I play the game (everyone is different) with classic pitching and directional hitting its like playing Statis-Pro and Strato-Matic baseball.

It’s glorious.

MLBTS 17 is by no means a perfect game. But it is the closet game I have personally played to replicating it's sport on a console (NBA 2K18 is also right there). The new ball physics this year are simply amazing and I am still seeing new things after playing well over 200 games offline.

Online is a totally different story. Diamond Dynasty (a mode I actually enjoy) was unplayable for me this year. Online this game was a train wreck. I don't know what happened. But they need to move it forward as they made great progress on 15 and 16 and took 10 steps back online.

Hitting for me has never, ever been better than on 17. The hit variety is unmatched. The fielding animations and humanity AI is fantastic.

My final impression for 17 is the game offline was the best sports game I have ever played. It can still use some improvement (passed balls, catcher reactions were too lax on them where they used to be too good) on passed balls and catcher reactions and throws. The throws had no urgency, the catcher mitt tap, then throw....it sucks. But they know this. And I have a great feeling it will be fixed and tuned far better for MLBTS 18. But overall?

9 out of 10 for offline

3 out of 10 for online

I fully expect to see gameplay tuned more for 18, and I am very hopeful they have some surprises for us in franchise mode and presentation. It needs a refresh.


Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

[djep]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

Very well stated.

The Show does an amazing job with random dice roll results based on statistics and ratings.

For me and the way I play the game (everyone is different) with classic pitching and directional hitting its like playing Statis-Pro and Strato-Matic baseball.

It’s glorious.


Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

Agreed - I use Pure Analog and I turn off all batter feedback. I find those tools to be in line with the strike zone overlay on Fox MLB broadcasts - I don't trust them and don't need them. Just going by feel the gameplay is so tight that I always feel the results are believable based on my input. When I put a good swing on a pitch, i get positive results more often than not. There's enough of a gray area to allow for the nuances of hitting a sphere with a cylindrical bat.

There are so many ways to play this game and it really is great. You use classic pitching so you are willing to give up a certain amount of user control in that part of the game. The OP wants more user control when it comes to hitting and his suggestion is a good one for achieving that.

[jada855]

Re: My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

Some good points by the OP,

Base running is also a key fundamental that needs to be worked on. At the moment the current implementation just does not work. Hope to see CPU runners be aggressive in situations and knowledgeable about what's going on in the context of a game.

Now that I think about it playing player lock and watching all 9 innings over the course of the MLB The Show series and Seasons. I don't think I have ever seen a CPU player turn back too a base in a critical situation sense. Which makes all the plays feel even more scripted.