6th Inning Comeback

[dubplate]

Why does the CPU always seem to mount a comeback in the 6th inning no matter how well my pitcher was doing previously?

It’s not due to my pitcher being tired so the only thing I can think of is it’s SDS’ attempt at replicating the success batters can have seeing pitchers the third time through the lineup.

It’s pretty obnoxious as it happens in the majority of the games I’ve played and it’s starting to become a major frustration with this game for me.

[Caulfield]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

this is where IRL on avrage, starters are pulled because besides just energy, the hitters are generally going through their lineup for the 3rd time and have seen the pitchers pitches enough that if you're becoming predictable, the hitters will seize the opportunity. I'm not saying your falling into a pattern with your pitches because obviously I can'y know that. But it is where I'd look at first.

[dubplate]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I use API so that’s not the case which leads me to believe it’s something coded into the game to simulate that.

I get that it happens, but it happens far too often. I shouldn’t have to take my pitcher out after the 5th inning of every game.

[nomo17k]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I wrote a blog post on this very topic a while ago. Here is the post. While the "comeback" discussion has died down quite a bit since then (thanks to the explicit revelations from the SDS devs and also how the game has become better tuned), I think the data there may still be relevant.

Basically it is true that the starter becomes ineffective around the 6th inning when he becomes low on stamina. That's when his ability becomes on par or worse than a typical well-rested reliever, so deciding whether to pull him or not is one of those critical managerial decisions that you need to make.

Another must read is a forum post from AI programmer B. Ma about pitching in the game. If I can find it I'll post a link to it (probably still in this or the last gen forum), but it has wealth of info about how the game works internally. (EDIT: Here is the link).

On the other hand, if you don't like how quickly starter becomes ineffective, one thing you could try is to increase the Starter Stamina slider. That extends pitchers effectiveness over higher pitch count.

[Caulfield]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

ah, API. I have issues with the CPU calling my game. Definitely not letting it do it in the latter stages of a game where the right pitches are absolutely critical.

[Bochte23]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Why does the CPU always seem to mount a comeback in the 6th inning no matter how well my pitcher was doing previously?

It’s not due to my pitcher being tired so the only thing I can think of is it’s SDS’ attempt at replicating the success batters can have seeing pitchers the third time through the lineup.

It’s pretty obnoxious as it happens in the majority of the games I’ve played and it’s starting to become a major frustration with this game for me.

for me it's always the 7th or 8th inning. There is scripting when playing against CPU. They can deny all they want. It happens too many times for it not to be. Whether it's a totally ridiculous error by one of my fielders, or a home run hit on a pitch so far out of the strike zone, Rick Vaughn would be embarrassed, it's in there.

[Caulfield]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

There is scripting when playing against CPU. They can deny all they want. It happens too many times for it not to be.

There could be another reason you can't hold a lead.

[dubplate]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I wrote a blog post on this very topic a while ago. Here is the post. While the "comeback" discussion has died down quite a bit since then (thanks to the explicit revelations from the SDS devs and also how the game has become better tuned), I think the data there may still be relevant.

Basically it is true that the starter becomes ineffective around the 6th inning when he becomes low on stamina. That's when his ability becomes on par or worse than a typical well-rested reliever, so deciding whether to pull him or not is one of those critical managerial decisions that you need to make.



Another must read is a forum post from AI programmer B. Ma about pitching in the game. If I can find it I'll post a link to it (probably still in this or the last gen forum), but it has wealth of info about how the game works internally. (EDIT: Here is the link).

On the other hand, if you don't like how quickly starter becomes ineffective, one thing you could try is to increase the Starter Stamina slider. That extends pitchers effectiveness over higher pitch count.

Looks like I may need to bump up stamina one tick. This is some good info and much appreciated.

[underdog13]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I use API so that’s not the case which leads me to believe it’s something coded into the game to simulate that.

I get that it happens, but it happens far too often. I shouldn’t have to take my pitcher out after the 5th inning of every game.

Why would the API not get predictable?

[dubplate]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Why would the API not get predictable?

If it does I just shake the catcher off and call me own pitch. That is not the root of the issue.

I put stamina at 7 last game and didn’t have an issue like I have in the past which is nice as you shouldn’t have to pull your starter after 5 innings every game.

[KBLover]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Why would the API not get predictable?

Does the catcher recognize you're sticking too close to your pattern and might call different pitches/locations to suggest that you mix it up?

[Bunselpower32]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

If it does I just shake the catcher off and call me own pitch. That is not the root of the issue.

I put stamina at 7 last game and didn’t have an issue like I have in the past which is nice as you shouldn’t have to pull your starter after 5 innings every game.

But the average innings per start across the entire league was in the 5's for every team. I'm not saying that you should pull them after 5 every single game, but there was only one team to have an average innings per start over 5.something and that was Washington, who had exactly 6.0 per start. So if you're expecting starts to go into the 7th every single game, you aren't playing simulation baseball.

[KBLover]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

But the average innings per start across the entire league was in the 5's for every team. I'm not saying that you should pull them after 5 every single game, but there was only one team to have an average innings per start over 5.something and that was Washington, who had exactly 6.0 per start. So if you're expecting starts to go into the 7th every single game, you aren't playing simulation baseball.

Agreed.

The average, based on fangraphs data pulling 2017 pitching data and starters only with a minimum of 100 IP, was 5.7 IP/GS

Only one pitcher averaged 7 IP per start, Corey Kluber.

Six innings should be a good benchmark for a decent or better outing.

That said, it also depends on pitch counts and how the OP pitches.

Based on Unconventional Stats' data (sadly, 2016, but I doubt the trend has changed much) the average is 16-17 pitches per inning. So if using the usual 100-pitches guideline, that's 5-6 innings.

If you have pitchers that are economical with pitches (high command, lower K's, induce early contact, etc), that could result in fewer pitches per inning, maybe that get stretched out to another inning. Shaving even 3 pitches per inning could buy an "extra" inning if your pitcher can stay "on schedule" with his pitch totals (no high-stress inning, etc)

[DarthRambo]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Raise SP stamina ull to 6 and it will help a lot. I pitched with Kluber and was able to get 7ip with 105 pitches and still had a tad bit energy. After allowing a hit to lead off thr 8th I took him out. Allowed 5 hits, 2er on a homer back in the 4th inning.

Miller struck out the side in the 8th. Walked first batter in the 9th. Then my CP Allen came in, gave up a hit and a walk. Bases loaded 0 outs. I somehow managed to strike out 3 straight again giving up zero runs.

I was up 7-2 so it was not a save situation though. But anyways, raise SP stamina to 6 and you'll see much better results.


And this was Kluber who has like 94 or 95 stamina. So do not expect to go 7ip very often. Irl most pitchers do not. Earlier in my season I was able to finish a complete game shutout with Clevinger as well so it can still be done.

I play using quick counts only and do use API as well. I shake off the catcher very rarely but do in certain situations.

[RogerDodger]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

If it does I just shake the catcher off and call me own pitch. That is not the root of the issue.

I put stamina at 7 last game and didn’t have an issue like I have in the past which is nice as you shouldn’t have to pull your starter after 5 innings every game.

Does that alter your theory about it being hard coded?