I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

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  • countryboy
    Growing pains
    • Sep 2003
    • 52728

    #106
    Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

    Originally posted by Padgoi
    This is what I've been saying for YEARS, but now more people are seeing it because they're playing on legend difficulty. And the white knighting nauseates me to no end, as if the game can do no wrong and we the user are always at fault despite the fact that the developers have openly stated the cpu gets a boost on higher levels to simulate a challenge. The point I've always made is that I wish the cpu just played smarter and better on legend as opposed to wonkiness happening in order to simulate a challenge. The videos that purist posted are good example, but they're not even close to the amount of nonsense I see on a regular basis.

    I've played on legend for the past three years. I'm currently 12-3 with the Yankees so I know the difficulty is not above my head, yet I still see these types of things regularly. It's almost as if the cpu can't manufacture runs so they resort to fabrication and that's what irks me. I can literally point out something each and every game that happens that unrealistically leads to a rally. And it's not ok if it's happening to the cpu OR the user. The developers have stated the game cannot differentiate beyween cpu and user which is why these things happen to both teams. And just because these things happen to the user and the cpu don't make it right or just.

    I'll admit, after watching purists videos, he probably took a poor route on the one video, but regardless, the fielder needs to pick up that ball. And the video of the grounder to third by Gardner, that's totally out of his hands, but these things seem to happen an exorbitant amount on legend and it just makes the game feel fabricated and the results feel forced. Clearly I'm not the only one seeing these things. This white knighting has gone on long enough. It's about time we hold the developers to task. You can say these things don't happen in your games all you want but the fact is, they probably are and you just ignore them or attribute it to bad luck and look past it. Perhaps you shouldn't.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Question:

    If you keep experiencing these issues on Legend, the fabrication as you call it, why not drop down to HOF and skew the sliders to make it a tougher challenge on yourself so the CPU is better without fabricating things to happen?
    Last edited by countryboy; 05-16-2018, 09:30 AM. Reason: spelling
    I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

    I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


    Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

    Comment

    • Baseball Purist
      Rookie
      • May 2010
      • 438

      #107
      Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

      Originally posted by Padgoi
      This is what I've been saying for YEARS, but now more people are seeing it because they're playing on legend difficulty. And the white knighting nauseates me to no end, as if the game can do no wrong and we the user are always at fault despite the fact that the developers have openly stated the cpu gets a boost on higher levels to simulate a challenge. The point I've always made is that I wish the cpu just played smarter and better on legend as opposed to wonkiness happening in order to simulate a challenge. The videos that purist posted are good example, but they're not even close to the amount of nonsense I see on a regular basis.

      I've played on legend for the past three years. I'm currently 12-3 with the Yankees so I know the difficulty is not above my head, yet I still see these types of things regularly. It's almost as if the cpu can't manufacture runs so they resort to fabrication and that's what irks me. I can literally point out something each and every game that happens that unrealistically leads to a rally. And it's not ok if it's happening to the cpu OR the user. The developers have stated the game cannot differentiate beyween cpu and user which is why these things happen to both teams. And just because these things happen to the user and the cpu don't make it right or just.

      I'll admit, after watching purists videos, he probably took a poor route on the one video, but regardless, the fielder needs to pick up that ball. And the video of the grounder to third by Gardner, that's totally out of his hands, but these things seem to happen an exorbitant amount on legend and it just makes the game feel fabricated and the results feel forced. Clearly I'm not the only one seeing these things. This white knighting has gone on long enough. It's about time we hold the developers to task. You can say these things don't happen in your games all you want but the fact is, they probably are and you just ignore them or attribute it to bad luck and look past it. Perhaps you shouldn't.

      Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
      All of this. This was just the next game that i decided to capture. I could have at least 50 videos from the last 20 to 25 games capturing the same things or worse. I noted the situations these plays happened and what resulted after and its par for the course. These games happen, but its not frequent in real life, and it shouldnt happen frequent in the game if we're led to believe the game is coded using probabilities and statistics. Ill admit i took a route to try and cut off the ball on that last video, but i have dozens of examples of fielders not picking up balls. I have no idea how this happened this year as its not a legacy issue.

      Much like CountryBoy, i too found HOF too easy this year. Ive always played on HOF as i felt it was the most balanced and fair level for my skillset. But like PAD mentioned, Legend relies on tactics to replicate a harder difficulty, when imo a game thats as good as this one, should start to move the needle forward with a better AI on the harder difficulties.

      Comment

      • Padgoi
        Banned
        • Oct 2008
        • 1873

        #108
        Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

        Originally posted by countryboy
        Question:

        If you keep experiencing these issues on Legend, the fabrication as you call it, why not drop down to HOF and skew the sliders to make it a tougher challenge on yourself so the CPU is better without fabricating things to happen?
        You've played on HoF. It's simply not a challenge, even when pumping the sliders up. The CPU just doesn't play smart enough, efficient enough or urgently enough.

        Comment

        • countryboy
          Growing pains
          • Sep 2003
          • 52728

          #109
          Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

          Originally posted by Padgoi
          You've played on HoF. It's simply not a challenge, even when pumping the sliders up. The CPU just doesn't play smart enough, efficient enough or urgently enough.
          Ok.

          Yeah I only played default as I don't like to mess with sliders.
          I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

          I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


          Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

          Comment

          • KBLover
            Hall Of Fame
            • Aug 2009
            • 12172

            #110
            Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

            Originally posted by BegBy
            I just wish there was less "This isn't happening" and game white-knighting as well as "Game sucks and the CPU cheats". Absolutes and/or closed mindedness isn't a good look for anyone. Middle ground is likely where the truth lies and also where a solution is most likely to be thought out. For those of us that think it's necessary, that is.
            I just wish there was more data.

            The extremes aren't likely where the truth is...but that's what gets expressed on both sides.

            And with no hard data around, there's nothing else to go on other than what people express.

            Plus, we don't know what everyone's settings are or if some of this could be mitigated with sliders or what sliders folks are using, what sliders have been tried, what the objective results were, etc.

            So far, I know Countryboy is default Legend with Zone/Meter. I like playing Directional/Classic or Pulse so my experience would likely be night and day to his even if I played straight default Legend like him if only because he's using the two least RNG-influenced interfaces and I'm using the most RNG-influenced interfaces.

            I do not doubt there's folks that are not seeing the things shown in that video and mentioned either at all or at this frequency. The nature of statistics alone makes that possible. If someone posts that, I don't call that "white knight" but them sharing their own experience. It's just different. Call it luck, call it something in their settings - we don't know without all the data.

            Also, using such terms won't advance the discussion any more than doing the behavior itself. It just creates defensiveness.
            "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

            Comment

            • Baseball Purist
              Rookie
              • May 2010
              • 438

              #111
              Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

              Giving up on default Legend pitching. It's just too much. I can't over come the over powered computer offense, and the other stuff that is completely out of my control. I'll stick with legend for hitting and hopefully bumping up some power and solid hits for the CPU will make their offense more formidable on this level. I really hate messing with sliders.

              My next game after the videos i posted. Already down 2-0 but who cares. This should be my first out, but instead my SS steps into a throw when the correct animation should be glove, rifle to first. And yes, I've pre loaded my throw with max effort, which then also increases my chances of an errant throw but I digress.
              <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IN_c0vF8-mw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

              Very next play, what should be a double play, my 2B fields a ball and continues his momentum to left field when he should attempt a ball flip out of the glove to SS to start the double play. I have seen the CPU do this many of times. Again you will recall I posted a video last night where the Pitcher has an accurate reaction to a ball I hit up the middle to start a double play. With manual fielding, it is very RARE that i'm able to start a double play with my pitcher.
              <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jz3YXY-HVVc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

              So HOF it is with pitching. Maybe this stops, maybe it doesn't, but I'll at least won't have to deal with an over powered cpu offense while battling the above clips EVERY game. Country Boy, I noticed in the franchise thread that you were trending downward pretty hard in your chise. Objectively, would you attribute it to just poor performance on your part or are you seeing any of this? I know our settings are pretty much the same.

              Comment

              • KBLover
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2009
                • 12172

                #112
                Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                Originally posted by Padgoi
                You've played on HoF. It's simply not a challenge, even when pumping the sliders up. The CPU just doesn't play smart enough, efficient enough or urgently enough.
                On my end, I'm leery of moving up, especially on the pitching side, because, with Classic, I'm getting pushed around by the CPU at times with HoF. I'm liking the production and such I'm getting out of the CPU. Chase rates, BABIP, etc.

                I played 4 games total last night, lost 3 of them across my franchises.

                So I'm guessing this is an interface difference. I think you play Meter or Analog?
                Last edited by KBLover; 05-16-2018, 11:26 AM.
                "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                Comment

                • Padgoi
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 1873

                  #113
                  Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                  Originally posted by KBLover
                  On my end, I'm leery of moving up, especially on the pitching side, because, with Classic, I'm getting pushed around by the CPU at times with HoF. I'm liking the production and such I'm getting out of the CPU. Chase rates, BABIP, etc.

                  I played 4 games total last night, lost 3 of them across my franchises.

                  So I'm guessing this is an interface difference. I think you play Meter or Analog?
                  I play Meter Zone on Legend with my sliders posted in the slider forum.

                  Comment

                  • countryboy
                    Growing pains
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 52728

                    #114
                    Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                    Originally posted by Baseball Purist
                    Giving up on default Legend pitching. It's just too much. I can't over come the over powered computer offense, and the other stuff that is completely out of my control. I'll stick with legend for hitting and hopefully bumping up some power and solid hits for the CPU will make their offense more formidable on this level. I really hate messing with sliders.

                    My next game after the videos i posted. Already down 2-0 but who cares. This should be my first out, but instead my SS steps into a throw when the correct animation should be glove, rifle to first. And yes, I've pre loaded my throw with max effort, which then also increases my chances of an errant throw but I digress.
                    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IN_c0vF8-mw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                    Very next play, what should be a double play, my 2B fields a ball and continues his momentum to left field when he should attempt a ball flip out of the glove to SS to start the double play. I have seen the CPU do this many of times. Again you will recall I posted a video last night where the Pitcher has an accurate reaction to a ball I hit up the middle to start a double play. With manual fielding, it is very RARE that i'm able to start a double play with my pitcher.
                    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jz3YXY-HVVc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                    So HOF it is with pitching. Maybe this stops, maybe it doesn't, but I'll at least won't have to deal with an over powered cpu offense while battling the above clips EVERY game. Country Boy, I noticed in the franchise thread that you were trending downward pretty hard in your chise. Objectively, would you attribute it to just poor performance on your part or are you seeing any of this? I know our settings are pretty much the same.
                    We are trending downward because we are playing bad baseball. I've made bad decisions when managing and my guys haven't performed well.

                    In terms of am I seeing any of that, I mean I see plays where my guys make errors or may not turn a double play due to errant throw or booting a ball or dropping ball on exchange from glove to hand, but nothing in the slightest that I would attribute to the game "fabricating difficulty" just so the CPU gets a leg up and my challenge becomes greater.

                    Like I said earlier, my experience has been that Legend plays no differently than HOF outside the fact that the meter is a bit more difficult to "master" and when hitting I have to be more aware of what the pitcher is trying to do to get me out.
                    I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                    I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                    Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                    Comment

                    • countryboy
                      Growing pains
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 52728

                      #115
                      Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                      I want to add something here.

                      We all know that sports video games are a simulation based on random number generators, dice rolls, and algorithms, that are influenced to some degree by user input. In terms of saying the game decided to do this or that, you could say that about every single thing in the game in a never ending cycle. I hit a homerun because the game decided I should, I struck out because the game decided I should, the cpu beat me because the game decided it would, and so on and so on.

                      I think that if you fall into this mindset then you are going to drive yourself insane thinking that every bad thing that happens was at the discretion of the game. You will quickly lose the entertainment of the idea that the game of baseball is an unpredictable sport.

                      If you keep of the mindset that the game of baseball is an unpredictable sport and sometimes bad things happen at inopportune times, then you will find an enjoyment with this game, that I haven't found in other baseball video games.

                      I think its too easy to blame the game for the bad and take pride in the good that happens to you, when it was all based off the same random number generators, dice rolls, and algorithms that were all somewhat influenced by user input.

                      Just a thought.
                      Last edited by countryboy; 05-16-2018, 01:15 PM.
                      I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                      I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                      Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                      Comment

                      • NolanRyansSnowmonkey
                        MVP
                        • Jun 2016
                        • 1354

                        #116
                        Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                        Originally posted by countryboy
                        Like I said earlier, my experience has been that Legend plays no differently than HOF outside the fact that the meter is a bit more difficult to "master" and when hitting I have to be more aware of what the pitcher is trying to do to get me out.
                        I feel the same way. I have played full seasons on both and I notice no difference as far as these things go. Ive seen just as many odd plays/errors on one as the other, but neither enough to really bother me as a whole. They actually seem to play identically to me, especially once the ball is in play.

                        Legend hitting for me simply makes me need to be mentally engaged on every single pitch. On HOF i can hold conversations with my wife or be half-interested in the game and still hit and win ball games . If i do this on Legend my batting average and babip tank.

                        Comment

                        • PhilliesFan13
                          Banned
                          • May 2009
                          • 15651

                          #117
                          Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                          This is 100% not true. This game plays a great game of baseball on HOF. Others will agree with me.

                          Honestly, we all know you play on Legend. You make it a point to tell us in every post you make. Hell, I think my grandmother knows you play on Legend. I think you have all these ideas in your head about what the game is doing. When you have a lead late it creeps in your head causing you to lose focus and pitch poorly. Just my opinion. Would you complain if you were losing late and mounted a huge comeback to win the game? Highly doubt it.

                          If the CPU mounts a comeback on me I only have myself to blame for pitching poorly. I had a game early in Franchise I was losing like 10 to something. I came back to tie it at 10 and then ended up losing 11-10. Happens to the CPU too.
                          Originally posted by Padgoi
                          You've played on HoF. It's simply not a challenge, even when pumping the sliders up. The CPU just doesn't play smart enough, efficient enough or urgently enough.
                          Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

                          Comment

                          • Padgoi
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 1873

                            #118
                            Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                            Originally posted by PhilliesFan13
                            This is 100% not true. This game plays a great game of baseball on HOF. Others will agree with me.

                            Honestly, we all know you play on Legend. You make it a point to tell us in every post you make. Hell, I think my grandmother knows you play on Legend. I think you have all these ideas in your head about what the game is doing. When you have a lead late it creeps in your head causing you to lose focus and pitch poorly. Just my opinion. Would you complain if you were losing late and mounted a huge comeback to win the game? Highly doubt it.

                            If the CPU mounts a comeback on me I only have myself to blame for pitching poorly. I had a game early in Franchise I was losing like 10 to something. I came back to tie it at 10 and then ended up losing 11-10. Happens to the CPU too.

                            Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
                            Clearly you ignored the part where I said that the developers acknowledged the game cannot differentiate between user and cpu which is why it happens to both and is NOT okay. When I make a huge comeback, you damn right I'm not really happy because most of the time it simply doesn't feel realistic. Again, this is simply my experience with the game.

                            And yes, I do mention I play on legend... just so everyone knows that I'm acknowledging it could just be a difficulty thing. I'm not showing off and never have been one to do that. So before you go accusing people of being a certain way, perhaps you should approach it in a more respectful manner, killa.

                            Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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                            • PhilliesFan13
                              Banned
                              • May 2009
                              • 15651

                              #119
                              Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                              Then maybe it's time for you to step away from The Show. If you're not enjoying it then why bother playing? It's apparent that no outcome in the game will please you.

                              Killa.

                              Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

                              Comment

                              • CujoMatty
                                Member of Rush Nation
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 5444

                                #120
                                Re: I loved this game when it first came out, but the patches have ruined it for me

                                I’ve been doing a lot of reading on CPU AI over the last year and it’s very interesting.

                                Everyone should give this a read it’s short and sweet.



                                Also this one is from a game developer and he talks about the tough balance between challenging AI and “fun” AI. I think a lot of that would apply to the difficulty of replicating randomness in baseball.

                                Making good artificial intelligence for computer opponents is difficult. Programming a game like draughts isn't terribly challenging; adding convincing AI, however, might take longer than making...


                                People need to understand that AI is really nothing more than scripting, so to say scripting isn’t a thing is flat out wrong. Scripting and cheat code is 2 different things.

                                I want to reiterate that I don’t think there is cheat code in the Show but Just to stir the pot lol here is a quote from prominent game developer Dani Bunten(who had quite the interesting life)

                                Dani Bunten was once asked how to play-balance a game. Her one word answer was "Cheat." Asked what to do if gamers complained, she said, "Lie!"

                                — Johnny L. Wilson of Computer Gaming World, 1994
                                2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
                                2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
                                2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan Rattlers

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