Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

[Baseball Purist]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

Maybe not pre determined, but the game will give you clues when things are about to go south. The show has an impossible task, especially on the harder difficulties, and that's balancing user skill vs simulation. This isn't much of an issue on the levels below HOF.

In my first season I went 96 and 66. In my second season, it's been an absolute grind and I'm only 40 and 38 near the all star break. I'm still squaring up the same amount of pitches, I'm still hitting the meter the way I was in my first season, but I just cant seem to close out games in the 2nd year.

In the show, I've kinda just accepted it is what it is. It's more of a simulation than anything. It's not always pretty how it gets to that simulation but I just kinda deal with it. It comes with how nuanced and challenging baseball is. When I want my stick skills to be the end all be all, I play madden or 2k.

[jeffy777]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

Certainly not predetermined, but I do feel that before the start of the game, some sort of dice roll happens that has at least some impact on whether each pitcher is going to be locked in or a bit off or somewhere in between. You can see it especially in the AI vs. AI games, and the effect is lessened if they're already on a hot streak. But it certainly doesn’t determine the outcome of the game.

It produces a realistic effect, imo, simulating the ups and downs of a real baseball season. If the pitchers were on the top of their game all the time, it wouldn't feel like real baseball.

[countryboy]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

i think everyone knows this. the difference is in patterns. There is definitely a pattern that I'm seeing in probably 90% of my games....the scenario I described in my last post. And FWIW, I'm not one of those that mind losing. Sometimes when I lose a game and it feels organic, I actually enjoy it. But those times dont happen often.

I don’t quick manage and then jump into the game. I play all my games out and not once have I felt that there was a pattern, a dice roll, nor anything of the sort.

Everything about this game feels organic to me.


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[jeffy777]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

Well, to me the dice roll makes it feel even more organic because it produces increasingly varied results. If there were no dice roll, we would see games that were much more similar with less variance.

We all know there are definitely times when the AI comes out and walks like 3 guys in the first inning and other times where you can't get a hit no matter how well you square him up. What causes that to happen? Is it strictly the in-game engine doing its thing?

To me, it makes sense that something happens before the game to influence whether the pitcher is going to be at least slightly more "on" or "off" because we see that in real life, so it only makes sense that The Show would try to program a similar system in the code. Plus we already know that hot and cold streaks influence this, so it makes sense that other factors would impact it as well.

That said, I could be totally wrong. It's something I've felt has been in the game for a long time though and I'm completely cool with it because I do feel it produces more realistic and varying results over the course of a season.

[Caulfield]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

The biggest thing that is predetermined and always destined to comeback is the yearly conversation on the subject. The reason why most games have such a drastically different feel to them really isn't because of a dice roll but because of the unlimited possibilities of what can actually happen in a real game. Probably the closest you could come to two nearly identical games played is if you had back-to-back double no-hit games. Which just doesnt happen IRL so I wouldn't expect to see it happen in the Show either.

[KBLover]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

We all know there are definitely times when the AI comes out and walks like 3 guys in the first inning and other times where you can't get a hit no matter how well you square him up. What causes that to happen? Is it strictly the in-game engine doing its thing?

To me, it makes sense that something happens before the game to influence whether the pitcher is going to be at least slightly more "on" or "off" because we see that in real life, so it only makes sense that The Show would try to program a similar system in the code.

Yes, there's variable stuff. That doesn't mean he will give up 3 walks or even have a bad outing. I've had/given up 1st innings like that and then the pitcher shuts down the enemy team the rest of the way.

Why? Because it's not pre-determined.

Even modifiers to probabilities is not pre-determined because a probability is just that.

Anything can happen, especially once you mix in your decisions and inputs.

[jeffy777]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

Yes, there's variable stuff. That doesn't mean he will give up 3 walks or even have a bad outing. I've had/given up 1st innings like that and then the pitcher shuts down the enemy team the rest of the way.

Why? Because it's not pre-determined.

Even modifiers to probabilities is not pre-determined because a probability is just that.

Anything can happen, especially once you mix in your decisions and inputs.

Agree completely. That’s why I said right away that the outcomes are “certainly not predetermined”...

It’s just another variable to go along with the plethora of others in the game code that combine together to give us the grand illusion of real baseball. It’s really quite an amazing feat that SDS has achieved here, if you really think about it.

[Padgoi]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

Again, the outcome of every game is not predetermined. However, there are DEFINITELY games in which the odds are stacked up HIGHLY against you and there are games when you simply CANNOT lose. The developers see this as real baseball and apparently so do many others. I see it as a hamstring.

Last night, my friend was playing as the Brewers against the Mets. He was 7-7 and had lost the first game of the series. I told him before the game started that there was absolutely no way in hell he was gonna lose the game. Sure enough, the Mets had easily 8 opportunities to win the game, but every single one ended in either a strike out, a pop out, a play at the plate, a base running blunder, anything to keep the Mets from winning. And sure enough, my friend won in 12 innings. I am absolutely CONVINCED the game said, you're the Brewers, you're playing the Mets, you're 7-7, it's time to win. Is every game like that? No. But it's naive to think some aren't absolutely highly influenced.

[countryboy]

Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

So in the case of your friend who the game determined was going to win, if he purposely got himself out every at bat (bunting then running into outs for example) and when pitching threw fastballs right down the middle, Would the cpu keep hitting into outs and the game go on for infinity since it has determined that your friend was going to win?




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[coach422001]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

So in the case of your friend who the game determined was going to win, if he purposely got himself out every at bat (bunting then running into outs for example) and when pitching threw fastballs right down the middle, Would the cpu keep hitting into outs and the game go on for infinity since it has determined that your friend was going to win?




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Actually that would be the test of this since you can control the ability to lose a game. In Fifa one of the gripes has been that there are periods where the CPU plays so unrealistically well that you know they are going to score on you no matter what you do. Hard to test that. But if you knew that there was no way you'd lose if you play the game normally, you can test that theory. if you ran a test franchise to a point where you thought you were going to win even before stepping onto the field you can try all kinds of things to play the game with poor strategy (start your closer for 3 innings, bunt with the bases loaded and 2 out with your catcher, bring in relievers cold, pinch hit Manny Machado with Lupus from bad news bears) and see if the tendency is still for your bad choices to work out resulting in a win, then try a set of games where in that same situation you just run into outs, swing at balls, walk the bases loaded to start each inning. If the former situation resulted in a high proportion of poor choices still working in your favor, and winning games you thought you would, I think you're on to something. The 'control' would be truly intentionally losing proving that you actually can lose these games under extreme circumstances.

[bibibanax]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

How many time, in real life, a team try a squeeze in the 9th inning when they trail by 1 point?

In those frequent cases, if I try a pitchout, the runner doesn't move. If i throw a strike, he runs, and the bunt is always in fair play, never a pop-up to the catcher or a foul ball.

[countryboy]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

How many time, in real life, a team try a squeeze in the 9th inning when they trail by 1 point?

In those frequent cases, if I try a pitchout, the runner doesn't move. If i throw a strike, he runs, and the bunt is always in fair play, never a pop-up to the catcher or a foul ball.

Try setting your defense with the 3rd baseman and 1st baseman playing the bunt. Move you're 2B/SS to in or halfway and see if that doesn't help you out in those situations.

That is what I have been doing and it works rather well.

[Padgoi]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

Try setting your defense with the 3rd baseman and 1st baseman playing the bunt. Move you're 2B/SS to in or halfway and see if that doesn't help you out in those situations.

That is what I have been doing and it works rather well.

I do this every single time. It works less than 25%. Most of the time, the runner is already far too down the line already for there to even be a play at the plate.

[Padgoi]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

So in the case of your friend who the game determined was going to win, if he purposely got himself out every at bat (bunting then running into outs for example) and when pitching threw fastballs right down the middle, Would the cpu keep hitting into outs and the game go on for infinity since it has determined that your friend was going to win?




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You're taking this too literal, which is the problem with anyone who defends the game. Obviously if he PURPOSELY lost, he'd . . . lose. The game isn't ABSOLUTE. However, there are times when it seems no matter what you do, you're winning IF you aren't mentally challenged and swinging at pitches at your head.

[countryboy]

Re: Why do some franchise mode games seem pre-determined?

I do this every single time. It works less than 25%. Most of the time, the runner is already far too down the line already for there to even be a play at the plate.

Hmmm...usually when I set my defense this way, the CPU doesn't attempt the suicide squeeze play, they instead attempt to swing away.