Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

[Caulfield]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

At the polo grounds you need a rover. Maybe they can add that for '20...

I want to see the Show add the Astros 4-man OF/3-man infield as a shift option


you know its only a matter of time before this isnt just a very rare occurance IMO
and the Show could really be on the cutting edge leading the way lol

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I want to see the Show add the Astros 4-man OF/3-man infield as a shift option


you know its only a matter of time before this isnt just a very rare occurance IMO
and the Show could really be on the cutting edge leading the way lol

Lol true. I predict the Show will make it a defensive option in the very year that MLB outlaws shifts haha.

Do you use Polo Grounds as your home park? If so, what do you do, try to shift your left and right fielders toward CF as best you can? I love that park. Maybe when I reach the '20 season, that will be my Rangers new Globe Life Grounds....

[jmel07]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

First off, syf, kudos for finding a nice combination to make sure those balls get down into the corners. What a breath of fresh air that is.

I'm shocked that all the slider sets haven't made that change. It's a no brainer.

I'm not sure I agree with the baserunners having too much of an advantage, however, and this comes back to the main thesis of this thread. The outfielder positioning by the AI is WAY too close to the infield. Over and over again, I'll lace a ball to centerfield with a runner on second only to see him barely hitting 3b as the CF is coming up ready to gun him down at home. Even player with speeds in the 30s, 40s and 50s should be scoring on soft liners to center, but they don't.

You can't manipulate this with fielder speed, because they're just in too damn close. And you can't manipulate it with arm strength (I wouldn't think) because you want them to be able to throw from the wall.

This is simply a matter of incorrect defensive positioning.

What I can't figure out, for the life of me, is why the CPU is easily able to score on these types of hits with players with lesser speed than a player I have problems even being able to round third with.

Does anyone else feel this, or is it just me?

Default speed, for both outfielders and infielders is too fast. By a lot.

But, when you nerf the outfielders with speed and reaction, then the baserunners have too much of advantage.

What you need is the perfect combination of arm strength, outfielder speed, and baserunner speed to keep the game balanced, and to keep it looking realistic.

~syf

[Caulfield]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Lol true. I predict the Show will make it a defensive option in the very year that MLB outlaws shifts haha.

Do you use Polo Grounds as your home park? If so, what do you do, try to shift your left and right fielders toward CF as best you can? I love that park. Maybe when I reach the '20 season, that will be my Rangers new Globe Life Grounds....

I dont use it for s home field, just whenever I play @Mets, I play 1 in the series at Polo or 1 at Shea. Then I also play a handful of friendlies at Polo, when I'm trying to get my dynamic difficulty dialed in or taking a break from a season.

[stealyerface]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

First off, syf, kudos for finding a nice combination to make sure those balls get down into the corners. What a breath of fresh air that is.

I'm shocked that all the slider sets haven't made that change. It's a no brainer.

I'm not sure I agree with the baserunners having too much of an advantage, however, and this comes back to the main thesis of this thread. The outfielder positioning by the AI is WAY too close to the infield. Over and over again, I'll lace a ball to centerfield with a runner on second only to see him barely hitting 3b as the CF is coming up ready to gun him down at home. Even player with speeds in the 30s, 40s and 50s should be scoring on soft liners to center, but they don't.

You can't manipulate this with fielder speed, because they're just in too damn close. And you can't manipulate it with arm strength (I wouldn't think) because you want them to be able to throw from the wall.

This is simply a matter of incorrect defensive positioning.

What I can't figure out, for the life of me, is why the CPU is easily able to score on these types of hits with players with lesser speed than a player I have problems even being able to round third with.

Does anyone else feel this, or is it just me?

So before I moved the baserunner click down one notch to 4, the baserunner advantage was too great at default, and I saw too many guys getting infield hits that were not deserving of that accomplishment. But clicking the baserunner speed down, I began to see the firstbasemen receiving the ball at the appropriate time to the baserunner arriving.

This took care of the "feel" for me, as guys that were speed rated a 2 like Cabrerra and Sandy Leon should be out by a step and a half on a moderately hit ball to the left side. Quicker guys would force better footwork, and more urgency, thereby making the case for more errors or hurrying the throw. And I had Mookie hit one to deep in the hole at short, the SS planted and threw, and we got a challenge play where he was safe. So, I pretty much have dialed in the arm strength, fielder reaction and speed, as well as the baserunner speed making for the prettiest animations and believable outcomes in the infield....

Which leads us to your comments on the OF placement/speed/apparent ESP and scoring chances, which I am in 100% agreement with. Too many times, I'll have a guy at second with moderate 55-60 speed, and a flare or solid hit to right field. In real life, that scores the run, unless it is a screaming line drive, 90% of the time.

This year's game, however, makes it a very risky venture to try and get that guy home, due to the outfielders positioning in short outfield. The flip side to this is when you get a hold of a ball, and it gets over the OF's head and makes the wall. Now doubles and triples are possible, and that is something we didn't get to see a lot of on default.

Now, it does seem to me that with the new rosters, the defense will shift and play deeper based on power ratings and spray charts, which helps for sure.

But I do agree, and have noticed that the outfielder positioning lends itself to having omnipotent powers, and taking advantage of the shallow positioning.

~syf

[TripleCrown]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

So something like this would make sense to me :

Fielder speed - 4
Fielder reaction - 4
Baserunner speed - 4

I love Armor’s sliders but I find his Arm Strength setting ( 6 OF & 5 OF ) a bit too strong. Maybe a 4-4 would be bette from what I see here :-)

OF throw strength - 4
IF throw strength - 4

[stealyerface]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

So something like this would make sense to me :



Fielder speed - 4

Fielder reaction - 4

Baserunner speed - 4



I love Armor’s sliders but I find his Arm Strength setting ( 6 OF & 5 OF ) a bit too strong. Maybe a 4-4 would be bette from what I see here :-)



OF throw strength - 4

IF throw strength - 4

Fielder speed at 2/2 is really a revelation. Animations are better, closing speed is just perfect... fielder speed at 4/4 would still cause too many hits to be corralled before they made the gap, and you would lose all the seeing-eye hits between infielders.

I have locked down the fielder speed for the past 5 years. It is exactly as I feel it should play out. If outfielders would play at normal depths on the CPU side, we’d be all set.
~syf


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Fielder speed at 2/2 is really a revelation. Animations are better, closing speed is just perfect... fielder speed at 4/4 would still cause too many hits to be corralled before they made the gap, and you would lose all the seeing-eye hits between infielders.

I have locked down the fielder speed for the past 5 years. It is exactly as I feel it should play out. If outfielders would play at normal depths on the CPU side, we’d be all set.
~syf


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

100+% agree with this. 2/2 is what i always use and has brought the best out of fielders for me the past few versions of the Show. Great players make great plays. Ground balls get through at a realistic rate. And i love seeing a seeing-eye single every now and then. Or ground balls just getting past a diving infielder.

If power was at 10 and hit velocities are out of hand i could see raising it but otherwise 2/2 works perfectly for me, for stats and for the eye test.

[Blzer]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Not only could I not agree more, but I've been bringing this up for years, and mention it at the beginning of every cycle when we start getting gameplay videos (including this year). By that, I'm referring to the default outfield positioning. Too shallow, too close to the lines.

The Show needs to work more on its ball physics, getting to the outfield faster especially in the CF area and line drives over the head. Outfielders also need to be able to go in, left and right on balls faster than they can back on balls. Also, outfielder shouldn't be able to sprint to grounders coming at them, especially coming from any angle, without any sort of consequence. These will all help with the issue.

[TripleCrown]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Fielder speed at 2/2 is really a revelation. Animations are better, closing speed is just perfect... fielder speed at 4/4 would still cause too many hits to be corralled before they made the gap, and you would lose all the seeing-eye hits between infielders.

I have locked down the fielder speed for the past 5 years. It is exactly as I feel it should play out. If outfielders would play at normal depths on the CPU side, we’d be all set.
~syf


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Thx for your valuable input on this guys. With fielders at 2/2 ...you keep runners speed 5 or tone it down as well ?

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Thx for your valuable input on this guys. With fielders at 2/2 ...you keep runners speed 5 or tone it down as well ?

Without going in and looking I think i have baserunner speed at 4, if i remember right.... i used to know all my sliders by heart but i haven't had to go under the hood in a while.

[stealyerface]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Baserunners speed at 4 with fielder 2/2 seems to be a nice balance.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I looked and can confirm my baserunner speed is indeed 4, with fielders at 2/2

[Greencollarbaseball]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I wish positioning one infielder didn’t lock all the other infielders. I have always felt that 3b played too far off the line by default and moving that one player for the game, forces all other infielders to stay in what ever position they were when you did the adjustment. For example if you move the 3b with no one on, the 1b won’t hold a runner if one gets there. Not to mention that dead pull hitters go the other way to beat the shift far more often than the hit in to it. It’s rather annoying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I wish positioning one infielder didn’t lock all the other infielders. I have always felt that 3b played too far off the line by default and moving that one player for the game, forces all other infielders to stay in what ever position they were when you did the adjustment. For example if you move the 3b with no one on, the 1b won’t hold a runner if one gets there. Not to mention that dead pull hitters go the other way to beat the shift far more often than the hit in to it. It’s rather annoying.

Yeah shifts in the game could be streamlined more.

I don't like the shifts that the CPU chooses for me most of the time, since the Tendency Chart in the game doesnt accurately reflect how often they pull the ball. (Even when i pitch inside to try to force them to pull).

This is why i have gone into Settings and chosen 'Manual' shifts, last year and this year. This way, YOU can choose WHEN to shift.

Then, the first thing i do before i throw one pitch in the game, is go to Defensive Alignments (D-Pad Down) . I don't adjust it by "Batting Lineup". I hit the 'Right' button and adjust for individual players in the opposing lineup. That way, every time "x" player comes up, my defense automatically shifts for him. (You could also do this for each player as they come up to bat instead, the first time through the order. This might help if you don't know their attributes well. Just check, then adjust.)

My shifts usually are much simpler than CPU shifts, because defensive shifts usually don't need to be nearly that dramatic in The Show. (The argument could be made that they're not even necessary.) I mostly just set my outfielders to "Deep" for power hitters. Or i might set my 3B to cover bunts for certain players (move him back with 2 strikes). Other than that, i might shift certain fielders left/right deep/normal etc. Then leave it. I may only adjust defense for one or two guys in some lineups.

After that, i am set for the game. Now, if i want adjust situationally, say double play depth, i can choose Double Play Depth for 'One Batter' or from - 'Quick Shifts'. (However - this will reset all other positions for that one batter... so for power hitters, etc i dont use Quick Shifts. The best thing to do is adjust SS, 3B, 2B INDIVIDUALLY to Double Play Depth to make sure 1B is still "Holding @ 1st" and outfielders stay deep.

My first baseman has poor reaction and a lot of balls get by his left side for doubles. So i move him over closer to the line. I do this for each individual opposing batter before i ever throw one pitch in the game. I would rather him miss a few more singles to his right than give up doubles to his left. My 3B on the other hand has a ton of range, so i can actually move him away from the line occasionally. (The beauty of 2/2 fielder sliders is you can really see a wide range of player abilities)

I know this sounds like a lot but it's not. I do this so second nature by now, that it only takes a minute before the game to set my positioning for their whole lineup. And then for situational adjustments i am in and out of menus very fast. Once you learn your way around the Positioning menu its a matter of a couple of seconds.

- tip - Don't forget set no doubles defense (OF Deep/IF Guard Lines) late in close games. Or - maybe pull the IF halfway in, instead of all the way in - if the runner on 3rd is slow. Also what about that 13 mph wind blowing out to RF? That might turn a 60 Power into Babe Ruth. Maybe move RF Deep and leave the others at Normal.... There are all kinds of things to think about that can help save runs or help add a few extra wins throughout the season.

To me, defensive strategy is a huge part of the game. If you aren't thinking of what needs to be adjusted throughout the game, you're missing an important part of baseball. And a whole lot of the fun. And don't trust the CPU to do it for you. Half the time they don't know what they're doing, and it could even help the other team.