Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

[moTIGS]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

You've seen one 25 years old?!?! That's crazy. I have never seen one over 23

Maybe not 25 for sure (they existed last year, so I assume they will this year), but definitely 24. I just had a 24-year-old right fielder in my most recent draft who was 50 overall. I made him 18, so he could reasonably reach the majors by his mid-20s. Another team drafted a 24-year-old short stop who was in the high 60s overall, which is more reasonable, but I still made him 18 to replicate the kind of prospect who breaks into the bigs in his early 20s and is theoretically a longtime star (normally I make those older but better prospects 21/22 to mirror college stars).

I’m fairly certain newly generated prospects are always in the 18-22 range, but those who skip the draft simply age up until they’re 25.

[rickpersak]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

With those older prospects who are years away from being in the majors, I’ll often edit their ages down a few years to get around that. Especially after the first couple seasons, there are a lot of draft prospects who are 22-25 years old but have overalls in the 50s. Makes much more sense for them to be 18-19 IMO. At least then they might reasonably progress to the point that they’re MLB-ready before they hit 30 years old.

Some consider that a bit cheesy, I’m sure, but I consider if fixing a flaw in the game. Often prospects don’t enter the draft and are available in the following year’s draft class. They’re one year older but identical otherwise. They don’t get better by waiting. This strikes me as very unrealistic (as does the mere existence of a 25-year-old draftee).

No I totally agree with that idea. I've seen a ton of 23 year old prospects that are 4-5 years away from being in the majors. It makes no sense to draft an A potential player if he's not even going to take a major league at bat until he's 28. I might do something similar when I draft those guys.

[sccavs64]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

I could actually use some assistance with this.

I drafted potentially the best prospect I've ever seen in the game - He was a 75 OVR 1B with 99 potential. Not only is he a great hitter, he also has 65+ ratings in all of the fielding and arm categories.

Due to his defensive ability, I switched his position to 3B and he went from a 75 OVR to a 79 OVR at his new position. So I have a 19 year old 3B who is a 79 OVR with 99 potential so of course, I'm drooling all over the place.

Except, I brought him up to the majors his first year right before the draft in June and he didn't progress at all. Had a couple of +1's and +2's to a couple of categories and vice versa, so he stayed the same OVR. He didn't have a good year for sure - He batted ~ .240 with about ~15 HR's but I was expecting him to improve at least a little bit.

This morning before work I did a test sim of his year 2, and simmed all the way through the year and the same thing happened. Had a below average season and didn't progress at all.

Has anybody seen this before where their players just don't progress at all? I know performance affects progression a lot, but I still see players all the time on CPU-controlled teams who have bad seasons and they still progress at least a little bit if they have A or B potential.

Not sure what to do.

[rickpersak]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

I could actually use some assistance with this.

I drafted potentially the best prospect I've ever seen in the game - He was a 75 OVR 1B with 99 potential. Not only is he a great hitter, he also has 65+ ratings in all of the fielding and arm categories.

Due to his defensive ability, I switched his position to 3B and he went from a 75 OVR to a 79 OVR at his new position. So I have a 19 year old 3B who is a 79 OVR with 99 potential so of course, I'm drooling all over the place.

Except, I brought him up to the majors his first year right before the draft in June and he didn't progress at all. Had a couple of +1's and +2's to a couple of categories and vice versa, so he stayed the same OVR. He didn't have a good year for sure - He batted ~ .240 with about ~15 HR's but I was expecting him to improve at least a little bit.

This morning before work I did a test sim of his year 2, and simmed all the way through the year and the same thing happened. Had a below average season and didn't progress at all.

Has anybody seen this before where their players just don't progress at all? I know performance affects progression a lot, but I still see players all the time on CPU-controlled teams who have bad seasons and they still progress at least a little bit if they have A or B potential.

Not sure what to do.

I've done a few test franchises with the Marlins and SP prospect Sixto Sanchez really didn't progress much at all when I had him in AAA to begin his career (20 years old I believe).

I did a new one last night after getting frustrated with him and I had a different approach: I started with him in AA for the first 2 years and he killed it down there with sub-3.00 ERA and under a 1.00 WHIP most of the time. When he was entering his 3rd season as a minor leaguer, I promoted him to AAA and he's still been doing really good since then. His attributes have been rising like crazy too when he was in both AAA and AA. I think he went from a 70 to begin with to now a 75 or 76 in 2+ years. I'll probably wait until he finishes the season I'm on now to promote him to the MLB. I'm assuming by then he'll be close to an 80 and he can be the 5th starter at 24 years old.

CF prospect Victor Victor Mesa, on the other hand, hasn't really been producing that great in the minors in both AA for 2 years and AAA for a few months. He's already 25 now and only a 72 overall with B potential. He started with a 69 overall rating I believe. I thought he'd kill it in AA but maybe I should have started him in Class-A to begin his career so he could get his stats up first. I already have a very deep outfield in both the majors and in the minors so he may just be trade bait now.

Point being, I think no matter what the overall rating/potential is of a player you draft, you should let him develop for at least 3 full years before promoting him. I can't say for certain, but I think starting your players in AAA the first year after you draft them has negative impacts on them. Let them just mash in AA for 2 years or so (depending on age) and then promote to AAA and MLB.

[moTIGS]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

I've done a few test franchises with the Marlins and SP prospect Sixto Sanchez really didn't progress much at all when I had him in AAA to begin his career (20 years old I believe).

I did a new one last night after getting frustrated with him and I had a different approach: I started with him in AA for the first 2 years and he killed it down there with sub-3.00 ERA and under a 1.00 WHIP most of the time. When he was entering his 3rd season as a minor leaguer, I promoted him to AAA and he's still been doing really good since then. His attributes have been rising like crazy too when he was in both AAA and AA. I think he went from a 70 to begin with to now a 75 or 76 in 2+ years. I'll probably wait until he finishes the season I'm on now to promote him to the MLB. I'm assuming by then he'll be close to an 80 and he can be the 5th starter at 24 years old.

CF prospect Victor Victor Mesa, on the other hand, hasn't really been producing that great in the minors in both AA for 2 years and AAA for a few months. He's already 25 now and only a 72 overall with B potential. He started with a 69 overall rating I believe. I thought he'd kill it in AA but maybe I should have started him in Class-A to begin his career so he could get his stats up first. I already have a very deep outfield in both the majors and in the minors so he may just be trade bait now.

Point being, I think no matter what the overall rating/potential is of a player you draft, you should let him develop for at least 3 full years before promoting him. I can't say for certain, but I think starting your players in AAA the first year after you draft them has negative impacts on them. Let them just mash in AA for 2 years or so (depending on age) and then promote to AAA and MLB.

I disagree with the three-year minimum.

I had a prospect very similar to the 1B mentioned. 22 years old, 75 overall, 95 potential. He spent one year in AAA then made the majors in year two. He’s been a stud ever since.

A key IMO when promoting guys to the majors is to make sure they have a real contract and not a minor league one. That helps their morale, which helps their ratings, which boosts their potential. Don’t be afraid to pay a guy $1 million even if he’ll take $80k. That slightly better backup catcher you might have to skip out on won’t make as much difference as the happy rookie will.

Also, don’t be afraid to use A ball. Everyone talks about AA vs. AAA, but guys progress in A, as well. It’s often the ideal place to stash young guys who have high potential but low ratings. They’ll progress a few points across the board. The same player in AA might struggle, which could stall his progression.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

I disagree with the three-year minimum.

I had a prospect very similar to the 1B mentioned. 22 years old, 75 overall, 95 potential. He spent one year in AAA then made the majors in year two. He’s been a stud ever since.

A key IMO when promoting guys to the majors is to make sure they have a real contract and not a minor league one. That helps their morale, which helps their ratings, which boosts their potential. Don’t be afraid to pay a guy $1 million even if he’ll take $80k. That slightly better backup catcher you might have to skip out on won’t make as much difference as the happy rookie will.

Also, don’t be afraid to use A ball. Everyone talks about AA vs. AAA, but guys progress in A, as well. It’s often the ideal place to stash young guys who have high potential but low ratings. They’ll progress a few points across the board. The same player in AA might struggle, which could stall his progression.

I am a firm believer in using single A. The younger guys who aren't quite ready usually become double A rest within a couple of years. They also do not regress in single A witch helps with development

[sccavs64]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

Thanks everyone - Good points all around. I actually do believe he's making about $1.3 Mil off his renewable contract but I'll confirm when I'm home.

Any arguments for/against me sending him back down to AAA? Now that he's on the 40-man roster his morale will take a hit, so not sure if that will do more damage than good.

Just don't want to mess this up, this guy might be the best player I've ever seen in this game if he reaches his full potential

[moTIGS]

Re: Minor League Call Ups and Send Downs

I don’t have much experience with sending a top prospect back down after initial struggles, but I did recently send down a rookie reliever who had been lighting up AAA but posted a 5.5+ ERA in about 30 MLB innings. He started the season as an 81 overall.

He played well again in AAA to finish the year and got called up again to start the next season. He’s now an 84 overall.

I’m fairly certain the difference is NOT from morale. His role and salary are the same. Only difference is that he had an extra year to progress.

So based on a single data point of a reliever who had a mid-80s potential, it looks like sending him down for a bit doesn’t hurt progression.

Depending on your guy’s attributes, he might still be rated high enough to rake in AAA even if he’s unhappy being in the minors. That would help his progression.

Also, a tip I’ve started using with young prospects. Even if they’re going to be everyday players or even stars, I try to sign them to one-year deals with depth roles while they’re on renewable contracts. Because they eventually have to sign, they can’t turn the contract down. And I’ve found that their desired role usually aligns with what contract they agree to for a year. So they’ll agree to (and therefore want) a depth role, they’ll be in an everyday/rotation/bullpen role, and as a result get a slight morale boost. Good way to ensure your young guys progress. Manage their expectations. And it even seems realistic with most prospects. If a kid goes in expecting to be a star right away in real life but falls short, he might get down on himself and start pressing, making things worse. If he knows he has to earn it, he can better focus on getting there.