User skill vs simulation style.

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  • Gagnon39
    Windy City Sports Fan
    • Mar 2003
    • 8544

    #1

    User skill vs simulation style.

    Like many of you on here at OS, I am a simulation sports gamer. I want my sports video games to be as close as possible to a real-life game in regards to statistics, outcomes, etc. I often see people make the argument, "it's a video game, it will never be 100% real." And I get that to some degree, but I don't buy that as an excuse. MLB The Show has, for years, been the closest I've ever come in any sports game to generating realistic stats and results. And I hope MLB 20 continues that trend, however, some of the things I'm seeing in the livestreams have me a bit concerned.

    It seems to me that the developers (not surprisingly) are catering to the online/Diamond Dynasty crowd by implementing the "perfect/perfect," swing and the new throwing features. Basically, once you master the physical user skills on these aspects of the game, you will be better. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand, "its' a video game," in this regard and that we all want user input. However, I really like the individual players in-game attributes to determine certain things. I'm hoping that the, "perfect/perfect" swings don't mean that we're blasting shots in the gap and home runs every time. I'll be using directional hitting in my franchise because I want player attributes to play as big of a role as possible.

    I also don't like the throwing meter that's above the player's heads in 20 and I hope its an option to turn it off. However, in doing so, how does that affect the new throwing mechanic. There seem to be a lot of questions for me about these new defensive features and I hope that I'm wrong when I say this might be a trend toward a more arcade style of game as opposed to the simulation style that I love so much.

    It just seems to me that all the features I've seen so far likely come from Diamond Dynasty players complaining that they're not crushing home runs left and right when they time the ball perfectly and place the PCI in the right spot.
    All the Way, Again: A Chicago Cubs Franchise

    Streaming on Twitch
    https://www.twitch.tv/gagnon39
  • Armor and Sword
    The Lama
    • Sep 2010
    • 21798

    #2
    Re: User skill vs simulation style.

    If you play:

    Classic Pitching
    Directional hitting
    Auto fielding
    Manual Throwing

    You have nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward too in terms of ratings mattering most and again meaningful enhancements to gameplay animations and outcomes.

    Plain and simple.


    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Now Playing on PS5:
    CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
    MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
    MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
    Oblivion Remaster



    Follow me on Twitch
    https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

    Comment

    • Gagnon39
      Windy City Sports Fan
      • Mar 2003
      • 8544

      #3
      Re: User skill vs simulation style.

      Originally posted by Armor and Sword
      If you play:

      Classic Pitching
      Directional hitting
      Auto fielding
      Manual Throwing

      You have nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward too in terms of ratings mattering most and again meaningful enhancements to gameplay animations and outcomes.

      Plain and simple.


      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

      I'm with you on almost everything, every year. But auto fielding is one I can't do. I love fielding and throwing. However, this one will be the easiest for me to overlook (the meter above their head) so long as the hitting isn't affected.

      And out of curiosity, how do you know directional/timing won't be affected. If they made it where, "perfect/pefect," in zone hitting results in peak performance for the player batting, one could easily assume that, "perfect," timing in directional will also result in peak performance as well.
      All the Way, Again: A Chicago Cubs Franchise

      Streaming on Twitch
      https://www.twitch.tv/gagnon39

      Comment

      • jcar0725
        "ADAPT OR DIE"
        • Aug 2010
        • 3821

        #4
        Re: User skill vs simulation style.

        Originally posted by Armor and Sword
        If you play:

        Classic Pitching
        Directional hitting
        Auto fielding
        Manual Throwing

        You have nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward too in terms of ratings mattering most and again meaningful enhancements to gameplay animations and outcomes.

        Plain and simple.


        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
        He ain't lyin. I play this way as well and the game on the field plays very natural and smooth and ratings matter.
        JUUUUUUUST A BIT OUTSIDE

        Comment

        • Archie56
          MVP
          • Feb 2009
          • 1556

          #5
          Re: User skill vs simulation style.

          Originally posted by Gagnon39
          Like many of you on here at OS, I am a simulation sports gamer. I want my sports video games to be as close as possible to a real-life game in regards to statistics, outcomes, etc. I often see people make the argument, "it's a video game, it will never be 100% real." And I get that to some degree, but I don't buy that as an excuse. MLB The Show has, for years, been the closest I've ever come in any sports game to generating realistic stats and results. And I hope MLB 20 continues that trend, however, some of the things I'm seeing in the livestreams have me a bit concerned.



          It seems to me that the developers (not surprisingly) are catering to the online/Diamond Dynasty crowd by implementing the "perfect/perfect," swing and the new throwing features. Basically, once you master the physical user skills on these aspects of the game, you will be better. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand, "its' a video game," in this regard and that we all want user input. However, I really like the individual players in-game attributes to determine certain things. I'm hoping that the, "perfect/perfect" swings don't mean that we're blasting shots in the gap and home runs every time. I'll be using directional hitting in my franchise because I want player attributes to play as big of a role as possible.



          I also don't like the throwing meter that's above the player's heads in 20 and I hope its an option to turn it off. However, in doing so, how does that affect the new throwing mechanic. There seem to be a lot of questions for me about these new defensive features and I hope that I'm wrong when I say this might be a trend toward a more arcade style of game as opposed to the simulation style that I love so much.



          It just seems to me that all the features I've seen so far likely come from Diamond Dynasty players complaining that they're not crushing home runs left and right when they time the ball perfectly and place the PCI in the right spot.
          Did you play the beta? If not, Fielding attributes and ratings definitely matter and do not cater to the DD crowd. I had a blast playing the field in the beta, as it was challenging and I noticed a huge difference between a great, average, and poor fielder. Also, if you watched the perfect perfect stream, you noticed that Ramone said in the beta that only 2% of swings resulted in perfect perfect. And that data was gathered from millions of swings. I truly believe this is going to be the best on the field gameplay we've had in The Show.

          Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • DLion
            Rookie
            • Feb 2017
            • 65

            #6
            Re: User skill vs simulation style.

            Originally posted by Gagnon39
            Like many of you on here at OS, I am a simulation sports gamer. I want my sports video games to be as close as possible to a real-life game in regards to statistics, outcomes, etc. I often see people make the argument, "it's a video game, it will never be 100% real." And I get that to some degree, but I don't buy that as an excuse. MLB The Show has, for years, been the closest I've ever come in any sports game to generating realistic stats and results. And I hope MLB 20 continues that trend, however, some of the things I'm seeing in the livestreams have me a bit concerned.

            It seems to me that the developers (not surprisingly) are catering to the online/Diamond Dynasty crowd by implementing the "perfect/perfect," swing and the new throwing features. Basically, once you master the physical user skills on these aspects of the game, you will be better. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand, "its' a video game," in this regard and that we all want user input. However, I really like the individual players in-game attributes to determine certain things. I'm hoping that the, "perfect/perfect" swings don't mean that we're blasting shots in the gap and home runs every time. I'll be using directional hitting in my franchise because I want player attributes to play as big of a role as possible.

            I also don't like the throwing meter that's above the player's heads in 20 and I hope its an option to turn it off. However, in doing so, how does that affect the new throwing mechanic. There seem to be a lot of questions for me about these new defensive features and I hope that I'm wrong when I say this might be a trend toward a more arcade style of game as opposed to the simulation style that I love so much.

            It just seems to me that all the features I've seen so far likely come from Diamond Dynasty players complaining that they're not crushing home runs left and right when they time the ball perfectly and place the PCI in the right spot.
            Whose sliders do you use? I also want the game to be as close as possible to real life stats.

            Comment

            • nemesis04
              RIP Ty My Buddy
              • Feb 2004
              • 13530

              #7
              Re: User skill vs simulation style.

              Even though perfect - perfect was in response to the competitive crowd so far it looks like it respects the game of baseball and has not bastardized it by turning it into a slugfest. Which was my biggest concern going in that it would be easily repeatable. It looks like it has strict tolerances to keep it in check. Also, it gives people who are really good at the game another level to perform at. There is nothing worse than playing a game where you have plateaued and having nothing to look forward to.
              “The saddest part of life is when someone who gave you your best memories becomes a memory”

              Comment

              • bravesfan1984
                MVP
                • Mar 2008
                • 2808

                #8
                Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                Originally posted by Armor and Sword
                If you play:

                Classic Pitching
                Directional hitting
                Auto fielding
                Manual Throwing

                You have nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward too in terms of ratings mattering most and again meaningful enhancements to gameplay animations and outcomes.

                Plain and simple.


                Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

                The ONLY way to play IMO for wanting ratings to matter most. I thank you Armor, for turning me onto this style of setup. I'll never look back.
                Braves | Cowboys | ND Football | UNC Basketball | 4-Kevin Harvick


                Comment

                • TheBleedingRed21
                  Game Dev
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 5071

                  #9
                  Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                  Originally posted by Armor and Sword
                  If you play:

                  Classic Pitching
                  Directional hitting
                  Auto fielding
                  Manual Throwing

                  You have nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward too in terms of ratings mattering most and again meaningful enhancements to gameplay animations and outcomes.

                  Plain and simple.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                  AMEN. Except I also do auto throwing. Absolutely lovely game this way.
                  PSN: TheBleedingRed21
                  Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/TheBleedingRED21_OS

                  Comment

                  • Gagnon39
                    Windy City Sports Fan
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 8544

                    #10
                    Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                    Originally posted by Archie56
                    Did you play the beta? If not, Fielding attributes and ratings definitely matter and do not cater to the DD crowd. I had a blast playing the field in the beta, as it was challenging and I noticed a huge difference between a great, average, and poor fielder. Also, if you watched the perfect perfect stream, you noticed that Ramone said in the beta that only 2% of swings resulted in perfect perfect. And that data was gathered from millions of swings. I truly believe this is going to be the best on the field gameplay we've had in The Show.

                    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


                    This is very encouraging. I’ve long said that I wish there would be a greater discrepancy between good, bad, average, and elite defenders. I have predicted that whenever Javy Baez is the cover athlete they may focus on defense. Seems I was right about that.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                    All the Way, Again: A Chicago Cubs Franchise

                    Streaming on Twitch
                    https://www.twitch.tv/gagnon39

                    Comment

                    • jcar0725
                      "ADAPT OR DIE"
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 3821

                      #11
                      Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                      Originally posted by Armor and Sword
                      If you play:

                      Classic Pitching
                      Directional hitting
                      Auto fielding
                      Manual Throwing

                      You have nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward too in terms of ratings mattering most and again meaningful enhancements to gameplay animations and outcomes.

                      Plain and simple.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                      I'm curious, using these settings on all star difficulty, I'm starting to get very good at hitting. What's more realistic, upping the pitch speed or upping the difficulty........ I'm curious what the higher difficulty has an affect on, for hitting.
                      JUUUUUUUST A BIT OUTSIDE

                      Comment

                      • Armor and Sword
                        The Lama
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 21798

                        #12
                        Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                        Originally posted by jcar0725
                        I'm curious, using these settings on all star difficulty, I'm starting to get very good at hitting. What's more realistic, upping the pitch speed or upping the difficulty........ I'm curious what the higher difficulty has an affect on, for hitting.


                        Try upping the pitch speed first.

                        When you go to HOF (this is my preferred difficulty level) the AI pitchers are more difficult to hit. Their pitch location and selection get’s better the higher you go. Also the timing window for directional gets smaller.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                        Now Playing on PS5:
                        CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                        MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                        MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                        Oblivion Remaster



                        Follow me on Twitch
                        https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

                        Comment

                        • jcar0725
                          "ADAPT OR DIE"
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 3821

                          #13
                          Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                          Originally posted by Armor and Sword
                          Try upping the pitch speed first.

                          When you go to HOF (this is my preferred difficulty level) the AI pitchers are more difficult to hit. Their pitch location and selection get’s better the higher you go. Also the timing window for directional gets smaller.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                          Got it thanks.
                          JUUUUUUUST A BIT OUTSIDE

                          Comment

                          • MLB14
                            Pro
                            • May 2014
                            • 636

                            #14
                            Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                            Originally posted by nemesis04
                            Even though perfect - perfect was in response to the competitive crowd so far it looks like it respects the game of baseball and has not bastardized it by turning it into a slugfest. Which was my biggest concern going in that it would be easily repeatable. It looks like it has strict tolerances to keep it in check. Also, it gives people who are really good at the game another level to perform at. There is nothing worse than playing a game where you have plateaued and having nothing to look forward to.
                            From what I saw in that dev stream, what they did with the batting interface seems to be a good step toward making hitting more enjoyable and less of a dice roll. People want that.

                            Our input has to matter. Nobody wants to hit the ball perfectly and line out over and over and it wouldn't play out like that in real life anyway, so I think what they did is a great step in a positive direction.
                            Do it. (Release The Show for PC)

                            Comment

                            • Armor and Sword
                              The Lama
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 21798

                              #15
                              Re: User skill vs simulation style.

                              Originally posted by MLB14
                              From what I saw in that dev stream, what they did with the batting interface seems to be a good step toward making hitting more enjoyable and less of a dice roll. People want that.

                              Our input has to matter. Nobody wants to hit the ball perfectly and line out over and over and it wouldn't play out like that in real life anyway, so I think what they did is a great step in a positive direction.


                              It actually does. 30 out of 100 times your in the HOF.

                              The MLB batting average across all 30 teams in 2019:

                              .252

                              25 out of 100.

                              So yeah.....I imagine there were hundreds upon hundreds of line outs in that number, thousands probably. Strikeouts are also way way up.

                              Great hitters......not a lot of them in the league and more and more contract hitters are becoming absolute gold for teams. With launch angles and young hitters losing perspective of what their job really is......I have never had issues with hitting on The Show.


                              It is a game that tries to simulate real baseball. But there has been an outcry that people want it to play more and more like.....wait for it......a video game.

                              I am glad with directional hitting.....it is more player ratings and RNG that determine the outcome. You still have to time your button press, and you still have to sit on pitches and have good pitch recognition. But I am glad I cannot simply become a guy who cranks 70 HR’s because I can use a controller better than the next guy.

                              Different strokes for different folks.

                              Your still going to line out......a lot on this game. Like players do in real life.
                              Now Playing on PS5:
                              CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                              MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                              MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                              Oblivion Remaster



                              Follow me on Twitch
                              https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

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