Bullpen ai finally fixed?

[mooch49]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

I play on legend difficulty with stamina on 6 for user and cpu for both starters and relievers. I also have manager hook at 3. The bullpen, although not where it needs to be, seems better than the other levels. But I need to continue to test, even though I'm losing a lot of games.

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[bcruise]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

Relevant question:
Does anyone know what the supposed deal is when a pitcher is “out of energy”? Nothing seems to change all that much: velocity and movement is 95% unchanged; I guess maybe location takes a small hit but nothing any worse than what happens with low confidence anyway. Am I missing something or is that it? Seems like both the user and AI can pitch a guy with “zero” energy indefinitely without much noticeable difference.

Here's the strategy guide explanation of the effects of low energy:



I would add that I THINK (meaning that this isn't confirmed) that high confidence can delay the onset of that first big effect at 25% for starters and 50% for relievers. If you notice, sometimes you don't get the "getting tired" message until much later, and to me those times correlate with when the pitcher has high confidence built up. But they're all going to take the hit eventually.

[ninertravel]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

Def not fixed. Play a couple series and they still bring in their long relievers, keeP them in for too long. Dont use their setup man when theyre behind. Same thing

Yep which is why i manage the CPU BP myself

[tytyboogie]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

So I've done a lot of testing on this in past iterations and what I discovered is that the CPU cares most about effective pitches IE the point where a pitcher starts losing effectiveness on their primary pitch (assuming it's a fastball, the rate is different for other pitches).

I found with stamina at default or lower, the CPU would rather leave a tired guy in to maintain their bullpen's effective pitch count then make an effort to win the game. Their actions indicate their logic is: well this guy is already past the point of effective pitches and I only have x number of effective pitches left in the bullpen. Might as well run this guy ragged and save my effective pitches for tomorrow.

I found by raising pitcher staminas, both starter and reliever, and then raising the manager hook solved the problem... Mostly. There was no setting I could find that made me completely satisfied with bullpen management, but I did manage to close the gap significantly. Point is, the CPU is far more concerned with pitcher performance and situation then maintaining total bullpen pitch effectiveness on my settings.

My current settings on 20 are all pitcher staminas at 7, CPU manager hook at 6. I'm still playtesting my sliders in 20 but I'm confident you'll see an improvement in bullpen management with these settings.

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That is some great detailed info..Sds needs to bring you on board for the new Bullpen AI and stats dept...so for years thats been what has worked the best for anyone not knowing reading his post. using the hook slider in game and also a huge part is the stamina adjusting so people on here have there own formulas and post alot whats yours? as far as Sp 1-5 they have different settings. i got those down pretty good but what about your rp and cp stamina they are all 20 ur saying? even for mrp and lrp type rolls?curious bout those to compare

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

That is some great detailed info..Sds needs to bring you on board for the new Bullpen AI and stats dept...so for years thats been what has worked the best for anyone not knowing reading his post. using the hook slider in game and also a huge part is the stamina adjusting so people on here have there own formulas and post alot whats yours? as far as Sp 1-5 they have different settings. i got those down pretty good but what about your rp and cp stamina they are all 20 ur saying? even for mrp and lrp type rolls?curious bout those to compare

I'm talking about the sliders in MLB the Show 20. I have all the attributes set to whatever the starting day rosters were set to.

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[knucklecutter]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

So I've done a lot of testing on this in past iterations and what I discovered is that the CPU cares most about effective pitches IE the point where a pitcher starts losing effectiveness on their primary pitch (assuming it's a fastball, the rate is different for other pitches).

I found with stamina at default or lower, the CPU would rather leave a tired guy in to maintain their bullpen's effective pitch count then make an effort to win the game. Their actions indicate their logic is: well this guy is already past the point of effective pitches and I only have x number of effective pitches left in the bullpen. Might as well run this guy ragged and save my effective pitches for tomorrow.

I found by raising pitcher staminas, both starter and reliever, and then raising the manager hook solved the problem... Mostly. There was no setting I could find that made me completely satisfied with bullpen management, but I did manage to close the gap significantly. Point is, the CPU is far more concerned with pitcher performance and situation then maintaining total bullpen pitch effectiveness on my settings.

My current settings on 20 are all pitcher staminas at 7, CPU manager hook at 6. I'm still playtesting my sliders in 20 but I'm confident you'll see an improvement in bullpen management with these settings.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

Mine are all 7 with hook at 8, what difference do you think that'll make over hook at 6?

[JHodges57]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

Here's the strategy guide explanation of the effects of low energy:



I would add that I THINK (meaning that this isn't confirmed) that high confidence can delay the onset of that first big effect at 25% for starters and 50% for relievers. If you notice, sometimes you don't get the "getting tired" message until much later, and to me those times correlate with when the pitcher has high confidence built up. But they're all going to take the hit eventually.

From what I've seen over the course of the last 3 versions or so, confidence is way overpowered. I've seen relievers with stamina ratings of 24 run out of energy in their first inning (because when they came in the game they were already pretty tired since they pitched the previous 2 or 3 games) and pitch 3 more innings with zero energy but 100% confidence which was built up because no one could get on base. Happens quite a bit in extra inning games. In fact, it seems many times the longer they go when tired the harder it is to hit them and the better they get at placing their pitches. I've seen pitchers with an overall rating in the 50's do this so it's not like they are very good to begin with. IRL confidence can go only so far. If you're completely spent on energy you're completely spent. You're not going to go thrown 3 perfect innings after that.


I think that the confidence rating should be eliminated anyway. I've seen pitchers give up 5 runs, 7or more hits/walks in an inning and their confidence drops to 50%. Then I'll see other pitchers who go 3 inning of perfect ball, allow 1 hit in the 4th and their's drop to 50%. The entire system seems whacky.

[Guys_WhoGame]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

As a purely Sim player, I'm seeing better results, but not perfect. If you think starters are coming out too early, you might want to bump up the stamina slider. I, personally, try to get similar IP stats as real life. I look for ~20 starters with 200 IP. I know that figure is trending downward every year, but I try and keep it in the 15 - 20 range. I'm mid tests now trying to dial that in.



Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe i read somewhere STA numbers is the # of pitches before he STARTS losing effectiveness. So players can go longer than their STA.

You had some nice fixes last year. Let’s hope as a forum we can figure something out to limit the the ai from being lackluster.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

Mine are all 7 with hook at 8, what difference do you think that'll make over hook at 6?

Honestly not much. Once you've solved the effective pitch logic problem, it's all about how nervous you want the CPU managers to be. Personally, I like mine to have a bit of faith in pitchers as they tire, but if you want your CPU managers to be more skittish that setting should be fine too.

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[garry1221]

Re: Bullpen ai finally fixed?

So I've done a lot of testing on this in past iterations and what I discovered is that the CPU cares most about effective pitches IE the point where a pitcher starts losing effectiveness on their primary pitch (assuming it's a fastball, the rate is different for other pitches).

I found with stamina at default or lower, the CPU would rather leave a tired guy in to maintain their bullpen's effective pitch count then make an effort to win the game. Their actions indicate their logic is: well this guy is already past the point of effective pitches and I only have x number of effective pitches left in the bullpen. Might as well run this guy ragged and save my effective pitches for tomorrow.

I found by raising pitcher staminas, both starter and reliever, and then raising the manager hook solved the problem... Mostly. There was no setting I could find that made me completely satisfied with bullpen management, but I did manage to close the gap significantly. Point is, the CPU is far more concerned with pitcher performance and situation then maintaining total bullpen pitch effectiveness on my settings.

My current settings on 20 are all pitcher staminas at 7, CPU manager hook at 6. I'm still playtesting my sliders in 20 but I'm confident you'll see an improvement in bullpen management with these settings.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

As convoluted as that reasoning sounds.. You might be onto something. Last season I lowered STA wanting pitch counts to stay closer to STA ratings as possible. If your theory is anywhere in the ballpark, it could be why my long relief came in as much and pitched as many innings as they did.

You had some nice fixes last year. Let’s hope as a forum we can figure something out to limit the the ai from being lackluster.

My set up from last year still is mostly the same. I made the switch to use 13 pitchers. 6/6/1, 5/7/1. All depends on ratings, potentials, or gut feel. Set up the same as last year. Thus far I like what I see in the BP from a purely Sim POV. Long relief is the only guy throwing more than 1 inning.