My little brother is this game’s target audience

[Ace2734]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

Now this is load of horse ****. I say that in a light manner BTW as JayHawk you have always made great points about the industry throughout the years.

But several of us have had great rapport with developers from SDS (myself included) and they have moved on not because of toxic franchise whiners (yes there are plenty of those) but because of the trends in sports games and video games in general.

I have fully come to grips with it. It just sucks that it finally is affecting some of our enjoyment. I love this game. I think everyone knows that. It is my favrotire all time sports game bar none.

But things have changed.

At least we have MLB 20 to keep us very happy. And in the meantime I hope SDS can re-evaluate what we (offline franchise and RTTS players) really love about the series in addition to the outstanding gameplay. They had genre changing features (Y2Y, SOTS) that were removed and IMO never coming back.

I hope to hear otherwise as do many of us. Until then.....we are out. And that is ok.

But the point is.....it is not because of a handful of toxic whiners they ignore franchise mode. It simply because their is no financial incentive at all with the advent of micros transactions. I mean.....geez they even removed the ability to earn XP and stubs playing franchise the way I always have.....because some exploit it?

Awful bandaid. I loved earning XP and reward path packs on 20 (still earning them in fact) That was my pleasure with Diamond Dynasty.....not the actual playing of the mode (I am just no into it except maybe player path moment missions which are fun) but simply collecting cards.....playing the market to sell cards for stubs to turn around and use to purchase sponsorships and budget for franchise and equipment for my 1987 RTTS player I have had since MLB 18. Yeah I play RTTS too. I just never advertise it. That mode is a shadow of itself. I went over to a buddy’s house last night and played some 21. Man.....gameplay...great. I never expected less. But the package and the gutting of modes and systems....huge fail.

It happens.

I hope SDS circles back on 22 and gives us all what we have come to expect. Total freedom to play our way and bring back critical franchise features that have been removed. RTTS was turned on it’s head. There was a time that offline mattered. There was a time Franchise mattered. That time has clearly passed.

Time will tell if it ever get’s better.

I have been a staunch supporter of The Show for over a decade. This is the first year I have ever posted anything “negative.” I do not want the community to respond to toxic fans. And I don’t want to be one of those.

Sure, I voice my complaints, but I do it from a place of knowledge, integrity, and care. Not to be toxic.

After years of toeing the line, I feel us franchise peeps are now officially being ignored. So in that sense, I have grown impatient. I am now using my voice - and my wallet - to speak out.

Please do not take this for toxic behavior. I get it, most of us are strangers to each other. I’m just tired of being ignored, manipulated, and cheated.


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[Ace2734]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

That fair. But I’m not trying to answer why they changed focus. I’m trying to understand why they changed focus AND made substantial changes that only drove franchise players away.

And I think some people don’t understand toxic. The OP didn’t violate TOS, and wasn’t attacking people. It’s the complete nature of his comment.

And it is the franchise community alone that spend a ton of time, not just here, but on Reddit and elsewhere, trashing, not just a part of their customer base, but their core fans.

So, yes, they moved on because of trends. But because of the way the franchise community treats the people playing other modes, they give off the impression the game isn’t for them.

MLB the Show, despite the praises, has always had pretty crappy sales totals. EA sold far more copies with Triple Play and MVP before 2K screwed the whole market up.

The entire tone of the series has been a mistake. Not for those that love it, but for publishers that want sales and revenue, the tone told a ton of gamers to find fun else where. And the community embraced that, and we’ve all see it play out for years.

They are doing exactly what EA did with NHL. Make it about the play on the field, and the characters doing crazy things.

I do believe those actions are designed to drive off gamers that create a tone around those games that you have to be an Uber genius of the sport to “truly appreciate” the game.

That’s the tone 2K gamers got on the daily from the Show trolls. That we could enjoy our “kiddie game” while The Show was designed for more mature fans. That may have beaten 2K, but it never turned The Show into a game that sells particularly well.

And I don’t think you are a part of that tone. You love the game and franchise, but loving the game should mean loving watching others find their own ways to love the game. I think you you get that.

But I’ve never believed the devs and the Show community in general ever got that. It does seem like they get it now.

If this is true, just tell us. Be honest with the fans who have been loyal to you for so long. I’d rather be told something I don’t want to hear then be strung along in ignorant limbo.


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[JayhawkerStL]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

You need to think of it like a business you own.

You make a great blueberry muffin, but no one buys it, because it is not sweet enough. So you make another blueberry muffin with lots of sugar, and suddenly people love them.

You are kind of bummed, because the extra sugar just masks the flavor and texture you like. And all of your longtime loyal customers think the sweet muffins are just going g to attract more people that like all this over sweetened stuff.

Pretty soon, you are selling 80% of overly sweet muffins, versus the classic one you most loyal customers love. So you keep making new sweeter muffins and giving your employees raises.

But your loyal customers, they aren’t happy. The place is filled with people that only want sweeter muffins, and don’t even appreciate the classic at all. Some think the classic blueberry isn’t as good now, and want you to get rid of the sweet muffins and concentrate on your loyal customers.

Now they leaves reviews on Yelp, about how the new customers ruined your bakery and that they should just go to the grocery store and not ruin the muffins they used to love. When they come in, they make snide comments to other customers, and act like your employees should treat them like they are VIPs.

Pretty soon, one group starts a narrative on the local forum that you are just an example of someone that got some success, but are now greedy. They urge people to just not buy your muffins.

What would you do?

Because I get rid the old muffins and go back to serving people that like the muffins I bake, even if I put less sugar in them for me. And I never want to see those old customers again.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

If this is true, just tell us. Be honest with the fans who have been loyal to you for so long. I’d rather be told something I don’t want to hear then be strung along in ignorant limbo.


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If you would stop using PR to form your opinions, you would realize they already did. I don’t base stuff like this on what companies say, it’s what they do. What they say is the trick they use to get you to buy the game anyway.

It’s not personal. It’s business. The fact that you ever thought it was personal was because they do PR well.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

Jayhawker, you seem like a good dude. But this entire post was Balognie and hyperbole my dude

I’m glad you are enjoying the game.

[Ace2734]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

If you would stop using PR to form your opinions, you would realize they already did. I don’t base stuff like this on what companies say, it’s what they do. What they say is the trick they use to get you to buy the game anyway.

It’s not personal. It’s business. The fact that you ever thought it was personal was because they do PR well.

That’s a silly and downright childish precedent. If we, as consumers, are supposed to take this attitude, then that’s bad business.

Now - I expect bad business from certain places, but this behavior is a 180 from SDS’s previous reputation.

And I didn’t buy the game. If they were honest, I’d be more inclined.


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[Ace2734]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

You need to think of it like a business you own.

You make a great blueberry muffin, but no one buys it, because it is not sweet enough. So you make another blueberry muffin with lots of sugar, and suddenly people love them.

You are kind of bummed, because the extra sugar just masks the flavor and texture you like. And all of your longtime loyal customers think the sweet muffins are just going g to attract more people that like all this over sweetened stuff.

Pretty soon, you are selling 80% of overly sweet muffins, versus the classic one you most loyal customers love. So you keep making new sweeter muffins and giving your employees raises.

But your loyal customers, they aren’t happy. The place is filled with people that only want sweeter muffins, and don’t even appreciate the classic at all. Some think the classic blueberry isn’t as good now, and want you to get rid of the sweet muffins and concentrate on your loyal customers.

Now they leaves reviews on Yelp, about how the new customers ruined your bakery and that they should just go to the grocery store and not ruin the muffins they used to love. When they come in, they make snide comments to other customers, and act like your employees should treat them like they are VIPs.

Pretty soon, one group starts a narrative on the local forum that you are just an example of someone that got some success, but are now greedy. They urge people to just not buy your muffins.

What would you do?

Because I get rid the old muffins and go back to serving people that like the muffins I bake, even if I put less sugar in them for me. And I never want to see those old customers again.

This just doesn’t check out. This is not what the community is saying. They can easily add a little sugar (monetization) to the old muffin (franchise) and that would be more progress than the past several years.

It’s not about ignoring the new customers and their muffin preferences, it’s about an equal playing field. Or muffin field. I don’t even know anymore.


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[JayhawkerStL]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

That’s a silly and downright childish precedent. If we, as consumers, are supposed to take this attitude, then that’s bad business.

Now - I expect bad business from certain places, but this behavior is a 180 from SDS’s previous reputation.

And I didn’t buy the game. If they were honest, I’d be more inclined.


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Stop thinking like you are in a relationship with a business that only wants your money and any information they can sell.

You are a consumer, and it is in your best interest to inform yourself. And if you take the word of a sales pitch as gospel, you are just a sucker.

And that goes for everything you buy, not just games.

Not sure why that is childish, but you do you.

[JoshC1977]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

This just doesn’t check out. This is not what the community is saying. They can easily add a little sugar (monetization) to the old muffin (franchise) and that would be more progress than the past several years.

It’s not about ignoring the new customers and their muffin preferences, it’s about an equal playing field. Or muffin field. I don’t even know anymore.


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Tell that to the "Franchise guys" that do nothing but attack DD, attack DD players, and whine about how "DD has ruined franchise". And as a general statement, I'm using "DD" as shorthand for ANY mode that is not franchise....it can be MtO, RTTS, whatever.

It's one thing to ask for more attention to be paid to franchise (and offline modes in general) and I am all for that. But for every constructive post about franchise, there are 4 more that de-rail everything. I swear man, every time I mention I'm a "franchise guy" I feel this urge to say "Don't worry, I'm not one of THOSE guys".

If the franchise mode community is to truly evolve into something positive; that 20% of folks that want to really talk about the things need to step-up and tell that 80% that it is unacceptable to attack other modes/players. Because right now, I don't believe the community is deserving of any attention whatsoever.

[Ace2734]

My little brother is this game’s target audience

Tell that to the "Franchise guys" that do nothing but attack DD, attack DD players, and whine about how "DD has ruined franchise". And as a general statement, I'm using "DD" as shorthand for ANY mode that is not franchise....it can be MtO, RTTS, whatever.

It's one thing to ask for more attention to be paid to franchise (and offline modes in general) and I am all for that. But for every constructive post about franchise, there are 4 more that de-rail everything. I swear man, every time I mention I'm a "franchise guy" I feel this urge to say "Don't worry, I'm not one of THOSE guys".

If the franchise mode community is to truly evolve into something positive; that 20% of folks that want to really talk about the things need to step-up and tell that 80% that it is unacceptable to attack other modes/players. Because right now, I don't believe the community is deserving of any attention whatsoever.

Maybe I’m already too far gone, but I feel like this is really the first year I’ve seen a major pushback on franchise and RTTS.

Most of us have been peacefully and respectfully asking for change and improvements for a long, long time now. But not only has that not happened, they are going backwards and starting to use shady business practices.

If Jayhawk is right - and I should just treat SDS as a corporation they only wants my money - so be it. But they’ve given us so many reasons over the last 17 years that they are the exception and care about their fan base.

If that era is over - again, so be it. But as someone who mostly only reads posts on this forum, I’ve finally decided to use my voice more. I’m frustrated and don’t want this game following the same path as the rest of the industry.

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[Dolenz]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

Tell that to the "Franchise guys" that do nothing but attack DD, attack DD players,

That is my pet peeve and has been for quite some time. Complain about DD all you want. I understand the frustration. But do so without insulting the players of that mode. They are not all children and they are not all "not real baseball fans". In fact I would go so far as to say most of us that even dare to remain part of the community here are adults and real baseball fans. I may not be as hardcore as some here, but even as I type this I am following the Cardinals and Nationals game.

[Ace2734]

My little brother is this game’s target audience

That is my pet peeve and has been for quite some time. Complain about DD all you want. I understand the frustration. But do so without insulting the players of that mode. They are not all children and they are not all "not real baseball fans". In fact I would go so far as to say most of us that even dare to remain part of the community here are adults and real baseball fans. I may not be as hardcore as some here, but even as I type this I am following the Cardinals and Nationals game.

I’ve never insulted anyone and never will. I stand by my thread topic that DD people are the game’s target audience, which is fine. But they are completely ignoring other modes and doing it in a classless, soulless way.

At the end of the day, we all want what’s best for this game. It shouldn’t be a huge ask for them to care about the modes they put in the game.


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[Dolenz]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

I’ve never insulted anyone and never will. I stand by my thread topic that DD people are the game’s target audience, which is fine. But they are completely ignoring other modes and doing it in a classless, soulless way.

At the end of the day, we all want what’s best for this game. It shouldn’t be a huge ask for them to care about the modes they put in the game.

Never blamed you personally. But I have seen the behavior from others around here for quite a long time. It rears it's ugly head mostly during the topics about the SDS streams and then at release.

[Ace2734]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

Never blamed you personally. But I have seen the behavior from others around here for quite a long time. It rears it's ugly head mostly during the topics about the SDS streams and then at release.

That’s the time for optimism. Hope springs eternal in baseball after all.


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[Therebelyell626]

Re: My little brother is this game’s target audience

I’m glad you are enjoying the game.

I didn’t buy it. Probably won’t even if it’s like $20 either. I was more referring to your assertion that DD players are a player base that is discriminated against and widely ridiculed. This is simply not true.

Go on any of the platforms with a much larger user base YouTube, twitch, the show nation, Twitter, take your pick. Diamond dynasty reigns supreme and not one person is ridiculing any of them. There has been a small amount of disdain towards DD the mode this forum, but the rhetoric that DD players are so mistreated and shamed is laughable to me.

I did like your bakery analogy however. I think it’s an apt comparison at this point