Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

My biggest problem with EA; they have the most resources at their disposal, they could make that game whatever they wanted it to be. They could build a Ferrari... they build the cheapest POS they can, and make billions off it. Fans deserve better.

I have only gotten back into baseball gaming the last 5-6 years. I have had alot of fun with Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz.. Junior, Big Unit... gameplay is really solid (unlike Madden) I would love franchise mode to be something alot closer to OOTP, but thats not what they are trying to be.

I have a heckuva lot more faith that MLBtS will deliver over the long-term as opposed to Madden. I have seen gradual improvement on the PS4 cycle, and I strongly believe that will continue.

[Fuimus Troes]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

My biggest problem with EA; they have the most resources at their disposal, they could make that game whatever they wanted it to be. They could build a Ferrari... they build the cheapest POS they can, and make billions off it. Fans deserve better.

I have only gotten back into baseball gaming the last 5-6 years. I have had alot of fun with Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz.. Junior, Big Unit... gameplay is really solid (unlike Madden) I would love franchise mode to be something alot closer to OOTP, but thats not what they are trying to be.

I have a heckuva lot more faith that MLBtS will deliver over the long-term as opposed to Madden. I have seen gradual improvement on the PS4 cycle, and I strongly believe that will continue.

Uh, WHAT?! MLBtS has literally REMOVED things from franchise over the years -- specifically, budget decisions (remember the plane for road trips?).

It's logical to assume that DD will continue to be great and get better (if you like that mode: I do, more or less), but there's no evidence that franchise will be taken seriously.

In fact, by way of analogy, we can look at RTTS this year and wonder when Franchise will be tied in some way to DD. Now THAT would be a logical prediction...

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

Uh, WHAT?! MLBtS has literally REMOVED things from franchise over the years -- specifically, budget decisions (remember the plane for road trips?).

It's logical to assume that DD will continue to be great and get better (if you like that mode: I do, more or less), but there's no evidence that franchise will be taken seriously.

In fact, by way of analogy, we can look at RTTS this year and wonder when Franchise will be tied in some way to DD. Now THAT would be a logical prediction...

No, I don't remember things like plane trips. Again, my first MLBtS game was '14.

.. I don't care about minutia like that anyway. If the plane trip involved one of my scouts unearthing the next Edgar Martinez, that might interest me.

MLBtS has a very minimalistic franchise mode. I prefer that over Madden, that is packed full of dozens of half-baked concepts.

I don't think either is great. I think each of them let their fanbase down. But at least SDS isn't trying to be something they are not.

[lemarflacco]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

Uh, WHAT?! MLBtS has literally REMOVED things from franchise over the years -- specifically, budget decisions (remember the plane for road trips?).

It's logical to assume that DD will continue to be great and get better (if you like that mode: I do, more or less), but there's no evidence that franchise will be taken seriously.

In fact, by way of analogy, we can look at RTTS this year and wonder when Franchise will be tied in some way to DD. Now THAT would be a logical prediction...

I also defy you guys to find the sports game for me that makes great cpu trades, builds their lineups perfectly, and makes sure good players dont go unsigned in free agency. I'll wait....

I use a mirror franchise on OOTP to determine what trades and roster moves I make in my MLB the show franchise and I can say even though its by the far the best, even ootp's roster management leaves a lot to be desired.

Maybe the AI in the games are just not advanced enough to handle lineup management like teams do in real life.

[Fuimus Troes]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

I also defy you guys to find the sports game for me that makes great cpu trades, builds their lineups perfectly, and makes sure good players dont go unsigned in free agency. I'll wait....

I use a mirror franchise on OOTP to determine what trades and roster moves I make in my MLB the show franchise and I can say even though its by the far the best, even ootp's roster management leaves a lot to be desired.

Maybe the AI in the games are just not advanced enough to handle lineup management like teams do in real life.

I can point to NBA 2K, where you have to give up the farm to get a great player (and often it will never work) and there's an untouchable option. There are also 5-6 trade slots and 3-team trades and the ability to toggle off waiting periods (sign and trade, post-draft, etc.) and trade approvals for cpu-cpu trades and...well, you get the point.

SDS touted its new trade logic this year, and yet it got WORSE. That's the point. In previous years you couldn't add a D/F potential guy in the 50's to finish off a trade for a superstar. That's "new."

[Fuimus Troes]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

No, I don't remember things like plane trips. Again, my first MLBtS game was '14.

.. I don't care about minutia like that anyway. If the plane trip involved one of my scouts unearthing the next Edgar Martinez, that might interest me.

MLBtS has a very minimalistic franchise mode. I prefer that over Madden, that is packed full of dozens of half-baked concepts.

I don't think either is great. I think each of them let their fanbase down. But at least SDS isn't trying to be something they are not.

Odd post. I assume that many -- most? almost all? -- franchise guys WANT the "little things" in the mode. At least if they're done well.

If you're a minimalist franchise guy, then the option is there to toggle off the "minutiae." That doesn't mean a robust mode that improves shouldn't be the goal. (You say minutiae, I say robust mode.)

And not a great argument to say that at least SDS is not trying to be something they're not. Because for franchise, that means they're not trying to be great.

[lemarflacco]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

I can point to NBA 2K, where you have to give up the farm to get a great player (and often it will never work) and there's an untouchable option. There are also 5-6 trade slots and 3-team trades and the ability to toggle off waiting periods (sign and trade, post-draft, etc.) and trade approvals for cpu-cpu trades and...well, you get the point.

SDS touted its new trade logic this year, and yet it got WORSE. That's the point. In previous years you couldn't add a D/F potential guy in the 50's to finish off a trade for a superstar. That's "new."

So I was mentioning "logic" and the only thing you mentioned as far as logic was that "you have to give up the farm to get a great player". So 2k's trade logic is better because it doesn't let you cheat the CPU as easily? lol

I can ALWAYS find a way to cheat the CPU and I only do realistic trades. I dont even care to look at if the CPU would accept it. When I think logic, im thinking trades the CPU does with each other. The 2k trade logic is pretty bad. I will the 76ers trade assets for a 85th rank backup center.

[Caulfield]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

just gonna have to be brutally honest here
but I hope the head of the Studio says
''note to self: do not take notes from Madden''

[Fuimus Troes]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

So I was mentioning "logic" and the only thing you mentioned as far as logic was that "you have to give up the farm to get a great player". So 2k's trade logic is better because it doesn't let you cheat the CPU as easily? lol

I can ALWAYS find a way to cheat the CPU and I only do realistic trades. I dont even care to look at if the CPU would accept it. When I think logic, im thinking trades the CPU does with each other. The 2k trade logic is pretty bad. I will the 76ers trade assets for a 85th rank backup center.

Point taken. I had a line written about how no sports game does cpu-cpu trade logic well, but deleted it before posting.

Logic does apply to trades you make, though, even though it's not your focus. And SDS went out of its way to tout its improved trade logic before release, and it's a fiasco.

We're focusing on different things to be sure. You seem to want basic logic fixed -- lineups, signings, releases, trades -- without being overly concerned about owner mode stuff. I do too, but I would rather have a much more robust suite of franchise options and deal with the logic problems while hoping for fixes. I like the rpg elements of a good franchise.

Crappy thing is, neither of us is getting what he wants...

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

And not a great argument to say that at least SDS is not trying to be something they're not. Because for franchise, that means they're not trying to be great.

From what I have seen in my time with this game, SDS has made it better year-to-year. I trust that will continue. Can't say that for the other guys.

[Fuimus Troes]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

From what I have seen in my time with this game, SDS has made it better year-to-year. I trust that will continue. Can't say that for the other guys.

Really? We have wildly different ideas of what constitutes progress then.

Anyone who doesn't admit that 2K and NHL have made real and substantial attempts to improve their franchise modes isn't being honest or is just ignorant. Madden's a special case because they were shamed into doing something.

The Show is my favorite game, but you have to call out those you love. Once Madden comes out, The Show will have done less with its franchise mode relative to 2K, NHL, and Madden, by a long shot. I still play the mode, but it consistently disappoints me, and I've wandered towards DD because of that.

[Funkycorm]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

From what I have seen in my time with this game, SDS has made it better year-to-year. I trust that will continue. Can't say that for the other guys.

I think a big part of what makes a franchise experience better is on the field play. And MLB had that up until 20. MLB21 is not that and a step back on the field in my opinion as well as off.

The franchise mode for MLB had always been light on content but the on field play is what elevated it. SDS has made small incremental improvements in areas but nothing major. But at the same time, they have removed season mode, year to year saves, SoTS, and the ability to add franchise budget with stubs. This is all since the 18 iteration. I would not call that progress or better year to year. On the field, it was better year to year but that streak ended with 20.

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More in general and not related to the quote above I will add this:

2k does have a more customizable and deeper franchise. I really enjoy their off-season stuff quite a bit. But the editing of draft classes in 2k21 is more bugged than 20 and their franchise mode still suffers from legacy bugs, like all of the major franchises.

NHL has a great deep scouting system that would be great in any other game. Still can grow and get better.

With Madden, time will tell if they can execute on their vision. Until then, as I said before, no one should look to the Madden dev team.

MLB says they have a vision for this series but their first steps to rebuild the series don't work correctly. Contracts and trade logic are worse than 20 and it's just not a better mode than 20.

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I know someone mentioned about a game that has perfect lineup logic and such. I don't think any do.

I do think 2k is closer than others because of the smaller number of players on a team and that helps. But on the same token, they can grow in contract signings and free agency as nobodies can ask for way too much in free agency or resigning then go unsigned and retire in a year.

My point is that there is no perfect one but 2k is probably closest.

[Mackrel829]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

Really? We have wildly different ideas of what constitutes progress then.

Anyone who doesn't admit that 2K and NHL have made real and substantial attempts to improve their franchise modes isn't being honest or is just ignorant. Madden's a special case because they were shamed into doing something.

The Show is my favorite game, but you have to call out those you love. Once Madden comes out, The Show will have done less with its franchise mode relative to 2K, NHL, and Madden, by a long shot. I still play the mode, but it consistently disappoints me, and I've wandered towards DD because of that.

2K has made real and substantial attempts to improve their franchise mode?!

Is that a typo?

[lemarflacco]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

I think a big part of what makes a franchise experience better is on the field play. And MLB had that up until 20. MLB21 is not that and a step back on the field in my opinion as well as off.

The franchise mode for MLB had always been light on content but the on field play is what elevated it. SDS has made small incremental improvements in areas but nothing major. But at the same time, they have removed season mode, year to year saves, SoTS, and the ability to add franchise budget with stubs. This is all since the 18 iteration. I would not call that progress or better year to year. On the field, it was better year to year but that streak ended with 20.

-----
More in general and not related to the quote above I will add this:

2k does have a more customizable and deeper franchise. I really enjoy their off-season stuff quite a bit. But the editing of draft classes in 2k21 is more bugged than 20 and their franchise mode still suffers from legacy bugs, like all of the major franchises.

NHL has a great deep scouting system that would be great in any other game. Still can grow and get better.

With Madden, time will tell if they can execute on their vision. Until then, as I said before, no one should look to the Madden dev team.

MLB says they have a vision for this series but their first steps to rebuild the series don't work correctly. Contracts and trade logic are worse than 20 and it's just not a better mode than 20.

-----

I know someone mentioned about a game that has perfect lineup logic and such. I don't think any do.

I do think 2k is closer than others because of the smaller number of players on a team and that helps. But on the same token, they can grow in contract signings and free agency as nobodies can ask for way too much in free agency or resigning then go unsigned and retire in a year.

My point is that there is no perfect one but 2k is probably closest.

2k suffers from the same logic I see in MLB, they are like hard coded for late 90's lol Like no team is playing Dwight Howard and /Joel Embiid together. Same way teams in the MLB will rearrange their whole lineup to get Jarrod Dyson in the leadoff spot and Billy Hamilton in the 2 hole. And 2k's customizable options do not work. I think a lot of those sliders like dont work at all , progressions is a HUGE issue. Hopefully in the next coming year the show reworks everything in franchise, they are definitely due.

I also think contracts are fixed. I see players get large contracts where as last year, I didnt see anyone getting large contracts

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Show Development Team - Take Notes from Madden

Really? We have wildly different ideas of what constitutes progress then.

There isn't a better baseball game. In the history of baseball gaming.

Franchise leaves alot to be desired, I don't deny that.

Anyone who doesn't admit that 2K and NHL have made real and substantial attempts to improve their franchise modes isn't being honest or is just ignorant. Madden's a special case because they were shamed into doing something.

I can't speak to NBA2k or NHL.

EA deserves no credit whatsoever. 100% pure trash. A decade of taking a dump on their fans heads. Forgive me for not thanking them for the hat. They even said in their press barrage franchise was the most played mode. They should be shamed right out of the football business.

Given their complete lack of creativity, buying studios and standing on the backs of their genius, I would prefer they find themselves out of the gaming business altogether.