The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

[kdutch98]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I want to meet the perfect that can hit the perfect accuracy area on meter pitching 99% of the time. I can't do it even after years of that being the only thing I've used. I miss my mark a whole lot more than I hit it. Maybe I just suck.

Same. (FWIW I'm liking the post because of the first 3 sentences - not the fourth. )

For me, I have no reason to get caught up in a hypothetical "if I was perfect all the time" because I'm simply not. And I too have played this game for many years and I don't see that changing. I miss enough times to have the inaccuracy from those misses punish me - either through walks or meatballs that end up as extra base hits. And other times the PAR just simply doesn't like me and I can end up with either of those two negative outcomes even with perfect input.

Not saying there isn't merit to having that concern, because things can and do change over time - in the case of throwing, I have to use buttons throwing now. That's because the meter became too easy to use several years ago and it unbalances the game - my meter-driven throws are rarely off-target enough to not disrupt the CPU's baserunning when it decides to get aggressive. The play on the field wasn't reflecting the ratings - that's why I went for the less-input based option.

But neither I, nor the game, are near that level yet when it comes to pitching.

I have been in online leagues with guys that could nail the meter pretty much every single time. To the point they hit it about 99% of the time.

Some people are that good.

I have also played against a few that could nail "pinpoint" pitching 99% of the time as well. Which allowed them to basically paint the corners with pitchers rated in the low 70's (was a DD league)

Point being, you can get good enough at it that you will miss your spots far less than real life pitchers do.

[bcruise]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I have been in online leagues with guys that could nail the meter pretty much every single time. To the point they hit it about 99% of the time.

Some people are that good.

I have also played against a few that could nail "pinpoint" pitching 99% of the time as well. Which allowed them to basically paint the corners with pitchers rated in the low 70's (was a DD league)

Of course there are. I'm sure a majority of the top online players in DD are the same way.

Should that affect the way I choose to play my own personal single-player games? If I am, in fact, not perfect (or even close, really), and if that imperfection results in realistic outcomes in my games, why does it matter what top-level players can do with the meter-driven interfaces?

Edit: Grabbed that post before you added the last line. It still doesn't change what I'm saying, or the question that I'm posing.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Are u using default consistency and control on classic or still at 0?


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I'm at default consistency and control on classic. Pinpoint was the main reason for me using sliders in the first place, so when I started using classic I just started using default sliders and dynamic difficulty. My pitching is pretty steady at Hall of Fame.

I have also played against a few that could nail "pinpoint" pitching 99% of the time as well. Which allowed them to basically paint the corners with pitchers rated in the low 70's (was a DD league).

I haven't checked this year, and it does seem a bit harder in 22 (though still not enough for my tastes), but when I was keeping track last year, I was pretty consistently over 70% perfects with Pinpoint. With most pitches. 2 steamers were a little lower, and splitters almost none (Xbox).


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[kdutch98]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Of course there are. I'm sure a majority of the top online players in DD are the same way.

Should that affect the way I choose to play my own personal single-player games? If I am, in fact, not perfect (or even close, really), and if that imperfection results in realistic outcomes in my games, why does it matter what top-level players can do with the meter-driven interfaces?

Edit: Grabbed that post before you added the last line. It still doesn't change what I'm saying, or the question that I'm posing.

I'm not saying it should affect the way you choose to play your franchise. Just pointing out that it is possible to get so good with the meter or pinpoint mechanics, that it becomes less "sim"

Heck, I catch a lot of flack for choosing to hit using "Timing." I keep hearing "It's easier, because all you have to do is hit the button and time the swing.

But it really isn't easier, because you can time the swing perfectly, and still swing over top, or underneath the ball, because of the player ratings. It is possible to get so good using the analog and PCI, to square up almost every pitch.

[DarthRambo]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I want to meet the perfect that can hit the perfect accuracy area on meter pitching 99% of the time. I can't do it even after years of that being the only thing I've used. I miss my mark a whole lot more than I hit it. Maybe I just suck.

Idk about meter, but everyone online using analog pitches pretty close to perfect every pitch. I suck at meter so I don't even bother lol. I'm sure with practice I could become pretty consistent with it and at that point idk if I'd have fun or not. Going to legend just to have a challenge using meter would take a lot of practice. HOF level using classic is easier to use and I like the cleaner screen anyway. Just have to lower the control and consistency sliders and it's perfect. And there is a lot more user control and input using classic than most probably realize.

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[Detroit Tigers]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I guess I'm weird then. If I'm not walking guys every now and then I'm doing something wrong.

No that’s actually kinda what I was saying: you’re doing it right. Guys look at final lines and see zero walks and just assume that means pitching is too easy (or at minimum that walks are too easy to avoid) when what’s usually going on is that guys simply don’t want to give away the base, ever, so they are very rarely if ever throwing balls on 3-ball counts. I throw outside of the zone roughly 40% of the time on 3-2. I bet for the average dude that number is closer to 0%.

[AUTiger1]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Of course there are. I'm sure a majority of the top online players in DD are the same way.

Should that affect the way I choose to play my own personal single-player games? If I am, in fact, not perfect (or even close, really), and if that imperfection results in realistic outcomes in my games, why does it matter what top-level players can do with the meter-driven interfaces?

Edit: Grabbed that post before you added the last line. It still doesn't change what I'm saying, or the question that I'm posing.

Exactly. Bravo!!

[AUTiger1]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Idk about meter, but everyone online using analog pitches pretty close to perfect every pitch. I suck at meter so I don't even bother lol. I'm sure with practice I could become pretty consistent with it and at that point idk if I'd have fun or not. Going to legend just to have a challenge using meter would take a lot of practice. HOF level using classic is easier to use and I like the cleaner screen anyway. Just have to lower the control and consistency sliders and it's perfect. And there is a lot more user control and input using classic than most probably realize.

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That's fine. I just wish people would respect other people's way of playing the game instead of making outlandish claims that the only way to get realistic sim results is by using a particular control method. But there's been a couple self righteous folks in this thread that think their way is the only "right" way to play this game to get "realistic" results and that simply isn't true. People should be allowed to play the game however they want in a way that makes it enjoyable for them and not be shamed/attacked for their style of play or for adjusting sliders.

[loso_34]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Can you guys honestly say you feel a different between your 1-3 in your rotation and the 5th guy? Or a middle reliever and the closer?

Using meter you really can’t from what I’ve seen. Usually the difference between those guys is command which you can override with meter/analog pitching. Another aspect you don’t get is your pitcher not having a good feel for a certain pitch or a game where everything lines up from the start.

[kdutch98]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Can you guys honestly say you feel a different between your 1-3 in your rotation and the 5th guy? Or a middle reliever and the closer?

Using meter you really can’t from what I’ve seen. Usually the difference between those guys is command which you can override with meter/analog pitching. Another aspect you don’t get is your pitcher not having a good feel for a certain pitch or a game where everything lines up from the start.

This exactly. You can definitely tell the difference between your top starters, and your back end starters.

#4 and #5 guys will have the occasional great game, but will be hit around pretty often. Top of the rotation guys will pitch better more consistently, though still have their rough outings.

[DarthRambo]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

That's fine. I just wish people would respect other people's way of playing the game instead of making outlandish claims that the only way to get realistic sim results is by using a particular control method. But there's been a couple self righteous folks in this thread that think their way is the only "right" way to play this game to get "realistic" results and that simply isn't true. People should be allowed to play the game however they want in a way that makes it enjoyable for them and not be shamed/attacked for their style of play or for adjusting sliders.

For sure! I was attacked early in the thread for suggesting to lower control lol. I deleted posts but I get you. People can play how they want. Hell, there are plenty who could care less about realistic stats and just play. I wish I could do that lol

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[kdutch98]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

No that’s actually kinda what I was saying: you’re doing it right. Guys look at final lines and see zero walks and just assume that means pitching is too easy (or at minimum that walks are too easy to avoid) when what’s usually going on is that guys simply don’t want to give away the base, ever, so they are very rarely if ever throwing balls on 3-ball counts. I throw outside of the zone roughly 40% of the time on 3-2. I bet for the average dude that number is closer to 0%.

Depends on the situation, honestly. With a light hitter, and the bases empty, I will challenge the hitter on 3-2, knowing he is probably not going to take me deep.

With a power hitter up, who is probably looking dead red, I will throw either a borderline pitch, or something outside the zone, because a walk is better than a home run.

It all depends on what the situation dictates.

But I agree, some guys will never throw a pitch out of the zone on a 3 ball count.

[countryboy]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Can you guys honestly say you feel a different between your 1-3 in your rotation and the 5th guy? Or a middle reliever and the closer?

Using meter you really can’t from what I’ve seen. Usually the difference between those guys is command which you can override with meter/analog pitching. Another aspect you don’t get is your pitcher not having a good feel for a certain pitch or a game where everything lines up from the start.

Yes I can.

There is a distinct difference in me pitching with Jack Flaherty versus that of Dakota Hudson, Brandon Waddell, or Miles Mikolas.

There's a also a distinct difference in pitching with say Giovanny Gallegos versus that of Alex Reyes. With Gallegos if I miss the accuracy line on the meter, I don't panic as much as I do with Reyes in regards to either missing completely out of the zone or worse yet, hanging a pitch over the center of the plate inviting to be hammered.

[Detroit Tigers]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Depends on the situation, honestly. With a light hitter, and the bases empty, I will challenge the hitter on 3-2, knowing he is probably not going to take me deep.

With a power hitter up, who is probably looking dead red, I will throw either a borderline pitch, or something outside the zone, because a walk is better than a home run.

It all depends on what the situation dictates.

But I agree, some guys will never throw a pitch out of the zone on a 3 ball count.

Right on. Yeah what I’m doing most often on the mound is trying to throw pitches where I’m saying “ok, hit this” when I release it. I really have no idea if it’ll be a ball or strike and don’t particularly care, I just know that if does what I expect it to do it’ll be tough to deal with.

That’s my approach for every pitch regardless of count or situation. Count and situation determines which pitch to throw and where, but the nature of the pitch itself will always be a variant of “ok try to hit this” or “ok this pitch is unhittable” without worrying about ball or strike.

Of course there’s also full variance on the back of this, where absolutely there are times where “this HAS to be a strike” is a thing, but I will still attempt to throw something that’s unhittable for that hitter, for that at-bat.

And, when you pitch like that, every pitcher is totally unique.