AI Bullpen Logic

[DonkeyJote]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Does zero-ing out reliever stamina and increasing manager hook help prevent this ? Or does it just lead to the AI leaving exhausted relievers in too long?

It helps, but it doesn't fix the issue by itself. Last year when I tested, I found the best balance to be the setup I posted above along with reliever stamina at 0, starter stamina at 5, and CPU Hook at 7 for simmed games. And then I used reliever stamina at 5, starter stamina at 7, and CPU Hook at 5 (increasing to 10 when the starter came out) for played games.

It still wasn't perfect, as the Starters ended up with too many innings and Complete Games. But, starters were still within numbers we've seen in the last decade, as opposed to the crazy numbers LRs threw otherwise, so I chalked it as a win.

I unfortunately can't find where I recorded the results of my testing. I know there was one set of settings where Long Relievers actually had good numbers, but the top MR for almost every team was over 100 innings too.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

The home town team of the game studio, San Diego, has had the crowd wear the wrong colored outdated jerseys for at least 4 years... you really think they're capable of going that much detail?

Capable yeah, willing is a different story. Either way I damn sure not holding my breath waiting.

[djflock]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Haven't bought 24 yet. I'm assuming bullpen logic still the same as it has been?

EXACTLY the same. No changes to any logic or roster management. Team still setting their lineups like the Jeter Storyline Yanks.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

This is why I would like to see the CPU get better use out of their 40 man rosters. But to also do that, Sony eventually has to bump that 93 man roster to 125 to 150. This game needs 4500 players in organisations. Hopefully with EA CFB having over 11,000 players on its roster, MLBTS will feel compelled to up the ante sooner rather than later.

Agree with this ? if you look at Rays every year ? They maximize the players 3 minor league options. The AAA/ML shuttle so to speak

[Wavebird99]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

This would be a nice fix, definitely a little dissapointing to hear it hasnt been addressed. As others have mentioned, sliders do help a bit though, and I find its more of an issue in simming games than in played ones.

[soxfanbs91]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Seeing as though teams don't use their full bullpen that much (I see people saying SU2 gets like 30 innings a year), it makes me want to ditch a pen spot for an extra position player (another platoon bat, pinch runner, defense specialist, etc) spot and see how that goes with usage.

[ripwalk]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I simmed a bunch of test seasons trying different sliders to try to have better output for pitching staffs/relievers.

My goals were primarily to try to make it so the best rated relievers get more innings than they often do if they are stuck in SU spot and every team doesn’t have a 150 IP LRP.

I tried a few combos but so far this produced the best results:

CPU Starter Stamina: 4
CPU Reliever Stamina: 2
Manager Hook: 6

You end up with far fewer good relievers who have 50+ IP versus 30ish… and you also end up seeing more relievers around the league who make 70 to 80 appearances a year, often for less than an inning an outing as IP is often lower than games

Definitely needs more testing but results seemed a bit better, anyway.

[ChaseB]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Hope people keep poking at this a bit more. Whether they find some workable sliders or not let us know. And if it's really not improved I'll do a story early in the year to re-highlight it.

And if anyone wants to make it clear at a high level what the biggest problems are once again, by all means do that as well to freshen it up for the new season.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

It helps, but it doesn't fix the issue by itself. Last year when I tested, I found the best balance to be the setup I posted above along with reliever stamina at 0, starter stamina at 5, and CPU Hook at 7 for simmed games. And then I used reliever stamina at 5, starter stamina at 7, and CPU Hook at 5 (increasing to 10 when the starter came out) for played games.

It still wasn't perfect, as the Starters ended up with too many innings and Complete Games. But, starters were still within numbers we've seen in the last decade, as opposed to the crazy numbers LRs threw otherwise, so I chalked it as a win.

I unfortunately can't find where I recorded the results of my testing. I know there was one set of settings where Long Relievers actually had good numbers, but the top MR for almost every team was over 100 innings too.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

I’ll have to check my sliders from last year but same with you, I was able to get around it for the most part. I upped all the starting pitcher K ratings to be more realistic, I made all receivers have stamina below 45 (or converted them to SPs for guys like Houser who were normally starters), and then tweaked the sliders for manager hook and stamina and was able to get most LRP to not have crazy innings.

The core issue is that the game assumes LRP will pitch multiple innings when 1) an SP gets pulled early and 2) the team is losing and the SP gets tired. The other issue is that there aren’t enough “minor” pitching injuries or injuries in general so there isn’t much of a reason to call up and down pitchers from the minors to eat innings (especially optionable pitchers). So those innings that normally get split up all go to an LRP, especially those with high stamina.

[bcruise]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I simmed a bunch of test seasons trying different sliders to try to have better output for pitching staffs/relievers.

My goals were primarily to try to make it so the best rated relievers get more innings than they often do if they are stuck in SU spot and every team doesn’t have a 150 IP LRP.

I tried a few combos but so far this produced the best results:

CPU Starter Stamina: 4
CPU Reliever Stamina: 2
Manager Hook: 6

You end up with far fewer good relievers who have 50+ IP versus 30ish… and you also end up seeing more relievers around the league who make 70 to 80 appearances a year, often for less than an inning an outing as IP is often lower than games

Definitely needs more testing but results seemed a bit better, anyway.

This is where I'm at as well regarding this issue. In no way am I giving them a pass for this not being fixed. However, I still want to be able to enjoy my purchase as much as possible. Since I'm much more concerned about the in-game impact of this problem (and because I don't like to play both sides and make changes for the CPU teams), as long as I'm able to get the LR's out of the game by the late innings to let the MR's and SU's do their job, I'm still able to enjoy the game. Manager Hook is the key to that happening.

I'll give those settings a shot too - I was messing around with some pretty similar settings from watching how in-game sims play out.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I’ll have to check my sliders from last year but same with you, I was able to get around it for the most part. I upped all the starting pitcher K ratings to be more realistic, I made all receivers have stamina below 45 (or converted them to SPs for guys like Houser who were normally starters), and then tweaked the sliders for manager hook and stamina and was able to get most LRP to not have crazy innings.

The core issue is that the game assumes LRP will pitch multiple innings when 1) an SP gets pulled early and 2) the team is losing and the SP gets tired. The other issue is that there aren’t enough “minor” pitching injuries or injuries in general so there isn’t much of a reason to call up and down pitchers from the minors to eat innings (especially optionable pitchers). So those innings that normally get split up all go to an LRP, especially those with high stamina.

Awesome ! I am going to do a roster 75 Stamina SP then 25 Stamina RP. Keep Stamina sliders at 5. Probably take me until weekend than i'll run some games and a franchise. I'll post results if sounds cool ?

[ripwalk]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I’m honestly not even sure how much reducing reliever stamina across the board will help, as the AI also has no issue running relievers into the ground stamina wise even if better rated and/or more rested relievers are available to pitch.

[ripwalk]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

If I decide to try to manually adjust all 30 teams bullpens to help make this better … am I right in assuming I can keep everything on auto for those teams and simply move “lineup/pitching rotations”
To manual ?

I just did a test sim with 1 team for this … I moved a better rated reliever who was 2nd SU (ie never used) into the 1st MRP spot.

I was happy to see that all the better rated relievers stayed in the spots I had put them and ended up getting 60 to 80 IP instead of the 30 they would have. Players were still shuffled up/down (I kept promotion/demotion on auto), but the bullpen kept the same “form” I had kept … the second SU and LR spot remaining empty, except during September call ups when a rookie got added to LRP2.


It’s a nuisance with more pop ups saying minor league teams don’t have valid lineups, but it’s easy enough to quickly auto fix those (I have zero interest in micromanaging the AIs minors).

So yeah, for those who have implemented fixes, is this the general premise of what you do ?

I’d have no problem doing this for all 30 teams at start of year and then maybe checking in to see if a swap is needed of roles a few times a year … if it made IP distribution better and got the best rated relievers the most innings.

I definitely need to test things more (I wouldn’t want AI batting lineups to stay static all year)… but I’m potentially intrigued by being able to maybe make this better on my own…

[MiracleMet718]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Awesome ! I am going to do a roster 75 Stamina SP then 25 Stamina RP. Keep Stamina sliders at 5. Probably take me until weekend than i'll run some games and a franchise. I'll post results if sounds cool ?

I need to re-download 23, but I’ll post my actual sliders. I’d assume they work on 24 as well since it’s sounds like this issue wasn’t fixed. Not perfect but o found better results.

The biggest issue the roster attribute K/9 change did was make sure pitchers threw Ks like they do in real life and fewer pitchers hit 200 innings. Guys like Nola had a 60ish rating and would end up with 140-150 Ks when in real life he hits 200 almost every healthy season.

Still had a few too many CGs and SHOs for my liking, but it as still less than the default sliders. Looking forward to hear your results!

[Christian9]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

With all of this talk, I was curious to run some numbers. I started a spreadsheet with a few scenarios mentioned here.

Turned off injuries, trades, and used the Phillies (out of familiarity). Definitely saw some interesting numbers, which I haven't fully gone through yet. Was hoping it would pique some interest and we can see some patterns, or at least hopefully understand better how the logic is supposed to work.

I agree with others that this should not be up to us finding a workaround, but figured I'd be proactive.

Doesn't look like I'm able to attach a spreadsheet, so had to zip it first.

Let me know what you think. And/or any scenarios worth testing.