AI Bullpen Logic

[tgreer]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

First, make sure cpu only has ONE 6th starter or guy with high stamina. After that, set up their bullpen this way. I promise it's the best possible setup for the cpu. I doubt they can fix the logic, or they would've by now.



Put your 2 lowest rated RP pitchers that have less than 40 stamina in the 2 LRP spots.

Put your best RP/setup man in the SU1 spot.

Put your closer in the closer spot like normal.

Put your highest rated RP’s in the MRP 1-3 spots.

Put the 6th starter/LRP pitcher in the MRP4 spot.

SU2- empty

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This is the best I have seen for played games, not sure about simming. Takes a little bit of time to setup but worth it

[DarthRambo]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Unfortunately, and sadly, I will switch controller over to the cpu side and put in another RP that isn't already half energy like they will do. And to stop them from leaving a guy in for a 3rd, or even 2nd inning sometimes. After one meatball smashed, there is no reason to leave a RP in on red or even yellow energy lol. Still a problem even with hook slider at 10 once SP is pulled.

Setting up bullpens like above definitely help but not perfect.

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[DonkeyJote]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Best method I've found. Starters pitch a little more than they probably should, but it's not too crazy.

For Played games, human and CPU starter stamina at 6, reliever stamina at 5, Hook at 5 for the starter, upped to 10 when they go to the bullpen. For sim, starter stamina at 5, reliever at 0, hook at 7.

Closer goes at closer. Next best 3 relievers go to MRP, next 3 go to LRP, worst reliever goes to MRP, provided there isn't anyone with high Stamina. Any pitcher with high Stamina (over 40 or so) can't be LRP. Typically MR (and then just make LRP your 3 worst low stamina relievers).

You can also do closer by committee by having two setup men and no closer. They'll mostly share both roles. But it's either 2 setup men and no closer, or no setup men and 1 closer. Anything else, and the CPU won't use the Set Up enough.

They still go to LRP a lot, but now there are three of them, so the innings get spread out a little more.

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[tytyboogie]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

very dissappinted nothings changed with late inning cpu usage...same exact pattern if they arent winning the 8th setup man or 9th inning closer will not come in..5 times the game was tied and 4 of them they used the Lrp as the next guy in...starting a inning. teams use these guys in tie games especially at home to give the offense a chance to walk it off...well so far nothin.. started my chise and have had 6 of the first 7 games be compettive and close into the 7th, 8th and beyond even extras. in my 7 games played as nyy the first 4 Hou didnt use hader at all or even the setup slot...all of the games were either tied or they trailed by just 1 run... Ariz same thing not using the setup guy or closer either but went right to Lrp...The games were tied and even into extras where i had guys on..the 3 batter rule had passed and with manager hook at 8. stamina sliders seem proper. just sucks

["The dude abides"]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Best method I've found. Starters pitch a little more than they probably should, but it's not too crazy.

For Played games, human and CPU starter stamina at 6, reliever stamina at 5, Hook at 5 for the starter, upped to 10 when they go to the bullpen. For sim, starter stamina at 5, reliever at 0, hook at 7.

Closer goes at closer. Next best 3 relievers go to MRP, next 3 go to LRP, worst reliever goes to MRP, provided there isn't anyone with high Stamina. Any pitcher with high Stamina (over 40 or so) can't be LRP. Typically MR (and then just make LRP your 3 worst low stamina relievers).

You can also do closer by committee by having two setup men and no closer. They'll mostly share both roles. But it's either 2 setup men and no closer, or no setup men and 1 closer. Anything else, and the CPU won't use the Set Up enough.

They still go to LRP a lot, but now there are three of them, so the innings get spread out a little more.

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I found a thread where you discussed this last season and I've been using this method since then with much better results. From my experience it works very well in both played and simulated games.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

The issue with starter stamina set at 5 or 6 is you have too few 200 IP guys by season's end. Not that you want a ton, but it's something to watch for.

There were 5 pitchers with 200 innings in 2023, 8 in 2022, and 4 in 2022. 17 total in the last 3 seasons (for comparison, there were 43 in 2017-19).

In my testing at SP Stamina at 5, Relief at 0, Hook at 7, there were 22 pitchers with 200 innings. Granted, for testing purposes, I had injuries turned off, so that would weed out quite a few of those. But nonetheless, starting pitchers averaged 5.5 innings per start; irl average was 5.1 in 2023. I didn't track complete games this year when I tested. But when I did last year (and ended up settling on the same sliders, so I doubt it's changed), Complete Games were also high (over 100, closer to 2013 numbers than 2023). I just decided that both of those things were a more acceptable outcome than 100 IP relievers, since they're at least within the range of true outcomes in the not too distant past.

I don't think raising SP Stamina above 5 is the answer at all, unless you're trying to replicate pre-2015 when 30-50 200 IP pitchers was still common.

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[MiracleMet718]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

There were 5 pitchers with 200 innings in 2023, 8 in 2022, and 4 in 2022. 17 total in the last 3 seasons (for comparison, there were 43 in 2017-19).

In my testing at SP Stamina at 5, Relief at 0, Hook at 7, there were 22 pitchers with 200 innings. Granted, for testing purposes, I had injuries turned off, so that would weed out quite a few of those. But nonetheless, starting pitchers averaged 5.5 innings per start; irl average was 5.1 in 2023. I didn't track complete games this year when I tested. But when I did last year (and ended up settling on the same sliders, so I doubt it's changed), Complete Games were also high (over 100, closer to 2013 numbers than 2023). I just decided that both of those things were a more acceptable outcome than 100 IP relievers, since they're at least within the range of true outcomes in the not too distant past.

I don't think raising SP Stamina above 5 is the answer at all, unless you're trying to replicate pre-2015 when 30-50 200 IP pitchers was still common.

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I did a similar test and while I got SP numbers that were accurate, the RP numbers were better, but still overinflated. My sliders and findings we posted earlier in the thread so I won’t post them again, but I used RP stamina at 0 and SP stamina at 1 or 2

At the end of the day, I found out that the main issue has nothing to do with sliders or usage, but rather callups/send downs.

There are usually 30-40 total pitchers used by a team each year with 25-32 of those being RPs. Teams usually call up/down about 8-12 times a month. In The Show, it’s a max of 20-22 pitchers that get used, but usually in the 16-18 number. They usually call up/down only 8-10 times per season.

So I think we can get close by having SPs pitch a bit more, but at the end of the day the code needs a re-write to allow the CPU to call up and send down more pitchers to match closer to real life since we can’t do that via the game outside of manually managing it for each team.

[gp005]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I did a similar test and while I got SP numbers that were accurate, the RP numbers were better, but still overinflated. My sliders and findings we posted earlier in the thread so I won’t post them again, but I used RP stamina at 0 and SP stamina at 1 or 2

At the end of the day, I found out that the main issue has nothing to do with sliders or usage, but rather callups/send downs.

There are usually 30-40 total pitchers used by a team each year with 25-32 of those being RPs. Teams usually call up/down about 8-12 times a month. In The Show, it’s a max of 20-22 pitchers that get used, but usually in the 16-18 number. They usually call up/down only 8-10 times per season.

So I think we can get close by having SPs pitch a bit more, but at the end of the day the code needs a re-write to allow the CPU to call up and send down more pitchers to match closer to real life since we can’t do that via the game outside of manually managing it for each team.

What I've noticed is that there aren't enough injuries for RP to have enough call ups.. you can try out my roster, I lowered a ton of RP durability. I did a lot of work to compensate for the awful sim engine this game has

I play 30 team control so I'm able to micromanage all teams but I have noticed more injuries to RP with my roster

It's called Realistic sim stats
Gamer tag is NA_RUTO15

[MiracleMet718]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

What I've noticed is that there aren't enough injuries for RP to have enough call ups.. you can try out my roster, I lowered a ton of RP durability. I did a lot of work to compensate for the awful sim engine this game has

I play 30 team control so I'm able to micromanage all teams but I have noticed more injuries to RP with my roster

It's called Realistic sim stats
Gamer tag is NA_RUTO15

I started testing that with my own version of the live roster. Changed the stamina for all RPs to 40 and then started testing durability. Helped a little bit for sure. Will def look to tryout your roster.

I think everyone knows it’s more a matter of getting something closer to being realistic, but we know it will never be perfect.

[King Gro23]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I started testing that with my own version of the live roster. Changed the stamina for all RPs to 40 and then started testing durability. Helped a little bit for sure. Will def look to tryout your roster.



I think everyone knows it’s more a matter of getting something closer to being realistic, but we know it will never be perfect.

Carrying on with this conversation, I think this is completely viable.

The game has an umbrella durability rating among all possible positions and wear and tear. Guys that play 140 games should be top percentile. Injury prone guys should be 40-70

Relievers.. play very isolated amounts of games. We’re talking 50-100 innings and still often end up injured so like max of maybe 40?


I agree with recent group thoughts, they play the least amount baseball. They are max effort from the get go.


This would also fall in line with producing more call ups/send downs or even trading signing.

The only scare would be (retirement logic or regression with durability so low)



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[MiracleMet718]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Carrying on with this conversation, I think this is completely viable.

The game has an umbrella durability rating among all possible positions and wear and tear. Guys that play 140 games should be top percentile. Injury prone guys should be 40-70

Relievers.. play very isolated amounts of games. We’re talking 50-100 innings and still often end up injured so like max of maybe 40?


I agree with recent group thoughts, they play the least amount baseball. They are max effort from the get go.


This would also fall in line with producing more call ups/send downs or even trading signing.

The only scare would be (retirement logic or regression with durability so low)



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The regression is an interesting point as I hadn’t thought of that before. The actual answer is probably the following for next years release:

1) expanding the rosters to 120 so more pitchers can be held in the farm system
2) Better team management regarding optionable pitchers
3) More minor injuries for relief pitchers
4) More realistic fatigue for RPs to allow for send down/call ups

For now I just think we keep tinkering with the SP/RP stamina and the Manager Hook sliders since that gets closest to the real numbers.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Well the other thing to consider is you have relievers in these rosters with 70 stamina. Stamina to me is broken in this game. To me in the modern game pitchers who go deep in games are the ones that are most efficient ? first of all if you are a reliever and your overall rating is affected by stamina ? Problem. Change a reliever to a SP and their overall rating changes by ten points, part of the reason why RP have low overall. Also pitchers stuff not being figured in more or at all in overall ? And i think that bleeds into the AI. SDS really needs to rework pitcher ratings and how the AI uses those ratings

[DonkeyJote]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

And this usually produces around 20 SPs with 2+ complete games with a rare few having 3.

That's too many with 2+ CGs though. There were 8 pitchers with multiple CGs last year, 4 in 2022, 8 in 2021. You're getting as many pitchers with multiple CGs per season as there have been in MLB The last 3 years combined. The last time there was a season with 20 pitchers with multiple complete games was 2015. If that's what you're going for, cool. Makes sense, I think a lot of people would love a return to that irl. But that's not really representative of baseball today.

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[ltw0303cavs]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

I did edit a roster, where all SP-75 Stamina, all relievers 25 Stamina and All CP changes to RP. I will use S&B Sliders but will use 5 for Staminas and 5 for Mangers Hook, just to see how it play in franchise and sim. Ill post some results as I go

[tytyboogie]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Just to add from my previous post, i just played my home opener and i cant believe it was the same exact situation. leading me to go ahead and remove all of the su 1 slot pitchers, and i basically put the best reliever other than the Cp in lrp1 slot. and the 2nd best in mrp1 slot. im saying this cuz again, what a game...nyy vs jays 0-0 pitching duel c.bassit was owning me 1 hit shutout going he goes 8 innings 103 pitches and its 0-0 bottom of the ninth home opener and they put in The Lrp 1 slot and on the first pitch Judge hits a walk off HR for me...there entire bullpen was rested..and they didnt use any high leverage choices..that needs to be where sds invests time and money..figure out how to have AI that makes sense..this game is so great but its so annoying how they cant get bullpen usage to work better if they ARENT winning a game. without us having to rework all the slots,stamina or swtich sides to put in Rps etc. just to try and get it somewhat realistic.