MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

[baseballguy99]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

The screenshots below:

Spoiler

Yes, this is what a modern game taking advantage of modern hardware looks like these days. It's fine if The Show looks good to you, personally, but objectively speaking The Show is a very dated game graphically and this is more of an example of what modern games are looking like and what The Show should be striving to look like as a first party AAA developed sports game.

Boom that’s what I’m talking about! Finally a baseball game that looks next gen! It’s not even close

[strosdood]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I wanna see some actual gameplay footage of that PYS 24 game, by the looks of it, it would be a FPS nightmare, u can only get so much out of these console before other things suffer 🤷🏻*♂️

[baconbits11]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

Uhoh Konami is exposing SDS on what can be done, on what is possible. Konami has looked better on every console going back to PS2.

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[canes21]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I wanna see some actual gameplay footage of that PYS 24 game, by the looks of it, it would be a FPS nightmare, u can only get so much out of these console before other things suffer 🤷🏻*♂️

There is gameplay at the end of the trailer.

https://youtu.be/Wfa75NtlW9o

Nothing they are doing graphically looks like it would cripple the FPS. The player models have a higher poly count than what we see in The Show, the textures on the players and field are clearly higher res, and the lighting is better.

Poly counts hardly matter these days, so that won't impact FPS much if any, especially in a baseball game where the developers have a set scene they know won't be changing with each stadium.

Textures have essentially zero impact on performance and haven't for years now since VRAM amounts really started to rise 10 or so years ago.

The lighting is the only thing that would really be a potential headache, but since we are dealing with a stadium here and not a dynamic scene, the majority of lighting will be baked and anything dynamic is going to be limited. They can probably just about get away with only using a small handful of dynamic lights and nobody will realize and that will save on performance.

Nothing in the trailer screams this will be a performance nightmare of a game. It doesn't appear they are doing anything special graphically. They mostly just have very nice textures on the key parts with some good lighting. Good textures and good lighting will often carry games very far. That's why the fact that SDS hasn't done much work making the dirt and grass look any better is as frustrating as it is. It's something that can be done and would change the look of the game significantly.

[breakfastcat]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

The lighting is the only thing that would really be a potential headache, but since we are dealing with a stadium here and not a dynamic scene, the majority of lighting will be baked and anything dynamic is going to be limited.

Not that it should excuse SDS for not upgrading their field and dirt textures, but do you think this might be the reason there have been so few graphical upgrades with The Show? As far as I'm aware, lighting in the game is completely dynamic, as the sun placement changes throughout the game and is even different based on time-of-year. And that's not to mention dynamic cloud coverage generating on-field shadows.

If dynamic lighting is really that computationally expensive, maybe that's the reason they haven't been able to keep up in other areas. At the end of the day I believe it may just come down to limitations with their current engine, at least in terms of a short 12 month development cycle.

[breakfastcat]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I've played Pro Spirits before. I dont want a Show that looks great like PYS does, but then plays like it too.

I've asked this before, but why is there an assumption that if the game were to look better graphically, that the gameplay would get worse? The Show's gameplay is already fantastic, why would SDS have any reason to actively make it worse? In PYS, the gameplay isn't (in your eyes) subpar BECAUSE the graphics are good, they probably just aren't as good at developing gameplay as SDS. It has nothing to do with the visuals, there's no trade-off.

[MLB14]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I've asked this before, but why is there an assumption that if the game were to look better graphically, that the gameplay would get worse? The gameplay is already fantastic, why would they have to degrade it to bring the visuals up to modern standards? In PYS, the gameplay isn't (in your eyes) subpar BECAUSE the graphics are good, they probably just aren't as good at developing gameplay as SDS. It has nothing to do with the visuals, there's no trade-off.

Right? Games can definitely have both elements. Many do.

[emoji336] mobile device

[canes21]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

Not that it should excuse SDS for not upgrading their field and dirt textures, but do you think this might be the reason there have been so few graphical upgrades with The Show? As far as I'm aware, lighting in the game is completely dynamic, as the sun placement changes throughout the game and is even different based on time-of-year. And that's not to mention dynamic cloud coverage generating on-field shadows.

If dynamic lighting is really that computationally expensive, maybe that's the reason they haven't been able to keep up in other areas. At the end of the day I believe it may just come down to limitations with their current engine, at least in terms of a short 12 month development cycle.

I wouldn't think so, but it really depends on how they've built the stadiums and day/night cycle system. You would think they only have a handful of dynamic light sources at any time and that wouldn't be an issue since these days dynamic lighting only becomes and issue when you flood a scene with tons of light sources.

You would expect each stadium has been built to have a lot of the lighting be static and baked into it with only certain sources being dynamic like the sun and some stadium lights so that the shadows on the field are appropriate as time passes.

Without knowing what engine the game is on, it's hard to know what exactly are the technical limitations of the game due to the engine. Despite that, it being 2024, if the engine is limiting them from entering the modern age with a lot of their tech, then that in itself is a big issue and one that needs to be addressed.

[breakfastcat]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

Without knowing what engine the game is on, it's hard to know what exactly are the technical limitations of the game due to the engine. Despite that, it being 2024, if the engine is limiting them from entering the modern age with a lot of their tech, then that in itself is a big issue and one that needs to be addressed.

I think that might be the issue then. As far as anyone outside of SDS seems to be aware, they've been using their own proprietary engine since at least the PS2 days. They're probably well aware of how limiting it must be for visuals at this point but are unwilling to make the switch to a new engine because of the massive amount of work that must entail in such a short development cycle. If they were to port the game to a new engine it would probably need to be a multi-year project that left the yearly releases in the meantime lacking meaningful improvement. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

People base that you would need to trade off game play for graphics because of EA, keep in mind thats based off one engine . Baseball isnt on a timer, also keep in mind unlike NHL, FIFA, Madden you need to make Mortal Kombat combos to play the game. MLB, you push a button to pitch, a button to hit. Its much more simplified. No the reality is old gen has held this game back but you are paying for current gen game . Even if you are ok with the ballparks, even if you are ok with the dated dirt and grass ? The uniform/sleeve is OLD, it hasnt changed really in a decade except its in 4k. Its time, doesnt mean you cant like the game, doesnt you mean you cant still love the game, but it means you should get what you pay for. So MLB 25 needs to be a true current gen game imo.

[marbury]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I wanna see some actual gameplay footage of that PYS 24 game, by the looks of it, it would be a FPS nightmare, u can only get so much out of these console before other things suffer [emoji1744]*[emoji3603]

LOL every PYS is smooth as butter, even on Switch. Nice try.


PYS2019 4K 60FPS

https://youtu.be/JHMldjUsR_c?si=a-GE2Ke9mTyUjUDJ

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I've asked this before, but why is there an assumption that if the game were to look better graphically, that the gameplay would get worse? The Show's gameplay is already fantastic, why would SDS have any reason to actively make it worse? In PYS, the gameplay isn't (in your eyes) subpar BECAUSE the graphics are good, they probably just aren't as good at developing gameplay as SDS. It has nothing to do with the visuals, there's no trade-off.

I don’t think anyone is saying this though. Everyone wants both. People are just saying that if you have to choose between drastic improvements in graphics vs. improvements in gameplay, they would take gameplay. The hope is that SDS can update their graphics and keep the gameplay untouched, however I’d assume there would have to be edits to the mo-caps and animations as well to update with the new player models.

Madden looks really nice, but plays awful and is usually a skip for me every year until they fix the gameplay. Whereas the Show look pretty decent, but the gameplay delivers every year.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I should also add, while it looks better than the Show, if you look at the stills from the gameplay part of the trailer, it’s not a huge difference. This isn’t knock what Konami has done, but just to say it shouldn’t take too much for SDS to upscale their textures and graphics to bring it to what to expect.

[marbury]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I should also add, while it looks better than the Show, if you look at the stills from the gameplay part of the trailer, it’s not a huge difference. This isn’t knock what Konami has done, but just to say it shouldn’t take too much for SDS to upscale their textures and graphics to bring it to what to expect.

The Show '30 when PS6 Pro arrives? Not with this engine.


Btw Konami has switched their engine 2 times already. They made the jump to Fox Engine in 2017 I think and now Unreal Engine. They carried over their old animations.

[puppies_on_acid]

Re: MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

I don’t think anyone is saying this though. Everyone wants both. People are just saying that if you have to choose between drastic improvements in graphics vs. improvements in gameplay, they would take gameplay. The hope is that SDS can update their graphics and keep the gameplay untouched, however I’d assume there would have to be edits to the mo-caps and animations as well to update with the new player models.

Animations should be easy, they just retarget to new models and then clean up as necessary. Then again, since the engine they have been using is from the stone ages, from a video game standpoint, who knows how they do animation targeting on their 3d models.....then again, I think they need to scrap their entire animation system and start over. They are all extremely lackluster, most of the animations look like the players are moving in molasses.

I've said it before, but what they need to do to get on the right track is make new player models from scratch, implement full PBR on all relevant textures, and then replace all holdover models/textures/animations that are still there from the PS3 era, some are even from the PS2 era...

And a note on updating grass/dirt textures. There would be no performance loss as long as overall VRAM usage is under the PS5 limits. If they are going over on VRAM usage or are so close to the limit where they can't add or update anything in a baseball game, then they are doing something extremely wrong in their texture pipeline. I'd have to see how their texture artists are working with their PBR pipeline to see where they are going wrong, if that's the case.