Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

[jawgee]

Re: Comeback AI: A scientific analysis

Nice job, swaldo. Way to take a scientific approach to this hot topic!

Once thing I've noticed that I don't believe The Show has captured are the starting pitchers who have slow starts within a game. Pedro Martinez, Josh Beckett, and mid-late era Clemens come to mind where they would absolutely struggle in the early part of the game, especially in the first inning. I'm sure there are other starting pitchers who experience this; maybe it takes them longer to warm up? This is only through my own experiences with the MLB The Show franchise. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?

The other aspect that raises a bit of a red flag for me is the lower number of errors made by The Show in this experiement. Sometimes a comeback is based on a fielding error to which I would have thought the real MLB would have seen more comebacks due to having more errors. Did you also keep track of number of homeruns and/or walks during the experiment? If there is Comeback Code written in The Show, wouldn't the long ball be an easy way to perform a comeback? Were there more HRs hit by The Show in this experiement?

Just curious as I haven't followed this whole controversy too closely...what was the reason for not just simming the games? Could you not get the inning-by-inning box scores if simmed or was there another reason for not simming? Too bad there wasn't an easy way for users to conduct a combined mass experiment kind of like SETI for baseball.

Thanks,
jawgee

[ChubbyBanana]

Re: Comeback AI: A scientific analysis

Merged "Comeback A.I. Scientific Analysis" thread into this one.

Let's keep all "Comeback A.I." talk in this thread please.

[swaldo]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Thanks all - regarding sim I heard the comeback is not there if you fast sim the games. I wanted it to be as accurate as possible so I did it the hard way. I'm keeping track of HR stats - basically for slider adjustments later on but I want more games in. People jerk around with sliders too fast IMO. I haven't noticed an abnormal amount of comebacks from HR's - they seem to happen any way possible.

Also, I think what alot of people are seeing as errors are just tough plays that are not counted as errors - but the animation looks awkward so it appears like an error. There were many plays I watched where I thought they would ring up an error but it didn't get counted. I think that's good - whatever keeps the numbers accurate.

[davewins]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

I know this may sound dumb but how do you know that if there was a comeback logic that it would kick in on CPU vs CPU games. Would it only be for CPU vs Human games??

Either way I don't think there is but I am very open minded, a perfectionist if you will so I will never have my mind completely set on any particular thing that doesn't have complete reasoning. If that made any sense at all.

[phillyfan23]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

exactly what I'm thinking dave....

you can't really trust stats generated by cpu vs cpu because that is not the mode that we will play on. Yes it sounds simplistic, but even if you proved via cpu vs cpu there is no Ai comeback code, you'll always wonder like dave said...HMM maybe it kicks in when it recognizes the cpu opponent is human controlled. Always gonna 2nd guess yourself.

The best way is to keep playing the games and see for yourself.

I have tested this since last night and there has been NO comeback AI coding whatsoever from the games that I've played ( Season mode, legend level) Won 7-3 fairly easily with Madson closing the door the last 2 innings straight 1-2-3 both innings

no counter-runs by the cpu where you score 1 or 2 rujns one inning and the cpu counters right away the next inning. That has happened in one instance where I score 2 runs , next inning they score 1, but for 95 percent of the time it hasn't happened.

Right now I'm in a season game with Moyer pitching....I get off to a 2-0 lead top 1st, and Moyer has pitched 2 clean innings giving up just one hit. top 3 now...

Funnhy thing is, the thread starter has seen the light.....and hopefully the rest of you will, because I know how it feels to not be able to enjoy a game SUSPECTING there is comeback AI....

If you know there is comeback AI, it's time to sell it, but when you suspect, you're constantly overanalyzing stuff that isn't there. Been there done that.....

[Knight165]

Re: Comeback AI: A scientific analysis

On a side note, if I was a dev I'd be thrilled people are upset they can't win the game b/c of stupidity, lack of focus or whatever by the user. For a video game, it's much more fun (at least to me) to really work in winning a game than know it's a given you can win and have to work to lose just to make it more competitive/realistic.

I was just thinking this very same thing tonight...
While WE are groaning over every "comeback code" thread...THEY are probably grinning.
Too funny...

M.K.
Knight165

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Funnhy thing is, the thread starter has seen the light.....and hopefully the rest of you will, because I know how it feels to not be able to enjoy a game SUSPECTING there is comeback AI....

If you know there is comeback AI, it's time to sell it, but when you suspect, you're constantly overanalyzing stuff that isn't there. Been there done that.....

[swaldo]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Somebody noted earlier they witnessed big comebacks while watching CPU vs CPU games. That's really the only way it can be tested in this capacity. Everyone plays differently and has different skill levels. If it exists in a CPU vs CPU game then that would be remarkable. Also, if it's not comeback AI, but rather something else causing it such as a ratings issue or clutch slider then testing in this manner may bring it to light.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Or maybe it is just a more challenging game than we are used to over the past 10 years ... and we should be thankful we are getting baseball results, and having to think baseball while playing.

And not artificially lose like in last years version for these results.

I want someone to play an entire 162 game season before even thinking of saying they played 10-20 games and these are the "facts".

Do we not forget that baseball is a marathon?

[phillyfan23]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Somebody noted earlier they witnessed big comebacks while watching CPU vs CPU games. That's really the only way it can be tested in this capacity. Everyone plays differently and has different skill levels. If it exists in a CPU vs CPU game then that would be remarkable. Also, if it's not comeback AI, but rather something else causing it such as a ratings issue or clutch slider then testing in this manner may bring it to light.

I understand what you mean Swaldo and we do appreciate this test....

the thing is it won't confirm nor reject the original theory. Because we will always wonder hmm.. maybe if it's cpu vs cpu the comeback slider is always on, or maybe tnhe comeback Ai code doesn't kick in if it's cpu vs cpu.

best way is to test yourself. I know everyone has a diff skill level, but comeback AI code doesn't only affect games with hard sliders or easy sliders. If there is comeback AI, it will affect all people playing regardless of skill level.

Best way is to find your slider set and diff level and play....that;s what I did and I haven't seen any comeback code...

[pbz06]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

I found myself winning close games now that I've gotten better. If you have followed my posts from when the game came out, I was kind of complaining how bad I sucked and how much trouble I was having. I was getting shelled on Rookie and Veteran.

And like I said, I've been hit hard with 2 outs, 1 out, 0 outs...I've been hit hard when up by 1 run, up by 6 runs, or down by 1 run and down by 6 runs. The game was just hard in every way, but when it happens when you're up you can't help but feel cheated unless you take a step back and look at the big picture.

Anyway, I now play on All-Star and have tuned my game a lot more. I am better at hitting and scoring, and ESPECIALLY better at pitching. I take my time selecting a pitch and treat every pitch and every out as the most important one.

I'm on a 3 game winning streak, and have a 3-2 win, a 10-4 win, and a 6-4 win. I was able to hang on without suffering from any ridiculous comebacks. My 3-2 win I was able to escape a bases loaded 1 out jam and boy was that intense. I didn't get in the "oh great here they come of course they cheat" mindset. I just settled down and was able to get the K and then the fly out to center.

This game is amazing! (except for online). I see it all, just like real life. I see blowouts, I see comebacks, I see rally killers, I see pitchers' duels, I see shootouts.....

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

I found myself winning close games now that I've gotten better. If you have followed my posts from when the game came out, I was kind of complaining how bad I sucked and how much trouble I was having. I was getting shelled on Rookie and Veteran.

And like I said, I've been hit hard with 2 outs, 1 out, 0 outs...I've been hit hard when up by 1 run, up by 6 runs, or down by 1 run and down by 6 runs. The game was just hard in every way, but when it happens when you're up you can't help but feel cheated unless you take a step back and look at the big picture.

Anyway, I now play on All-Star and have tuned my game a lot more. I am better at hitting and scoring, and ESPECIALLY better at pitching. I take my time selecting a pitch and treat every pitch and every out as the most important one.

I'm on a 3 game winning streak, and have a 3-2 win, a 10-4 win, and a 6-4 win. I was able to hang on without suffering from any ridiculous comebacks. My 3-2 win I was able to escape a bases loaded 1 out jam and boy was that intense. I didn't get in the "oh great here they come of course they cheat" mindset. I just settled down and was able to get the K and then the fly out to center.

This game is amazing! (except for online). I see it all, just like real life. I see blowouts, I see comebacks, I see rally killers, I see pitchers' duels, I see shootouts.....

Isn't it awesome! I am just so stoked to start my Franchise ... every game has you glued to the screen and FOCUSED. Phenomenal job on SCEAs part. They truly made the most realistic baseball game ever.

[davewins]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Isn't it awesome! I am just so stoked to start my Franchise ... every game has you glued to the screen and FOCUSED. Phenomenal job on SCEAs part. They truly made the most realistic baseball game ever.

Not only that. They made the most realistic sports game ever and imho baseball is the hardest sport to make realistic seeing ALL the different stats that are kept and how it's literally a game of inches.

I think there are only a few things they need to tweak for next year but for now I am not going to even get into them.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Not only that. They made the most realistic sports game ever and imho baseball is the hardest sport to make realistic seeing ALL the different stats that are kept and how it's literally a game of inches.

I think there are only a few things they need to tweak for next year but for now I am not going to even get into them.

While you mention a game of inches ... I have it recorded but not the best camera work ... but in today's game I hit the most realistic Fenway-esque wall ball double with Pedroia I have ever seen baseball gaming.

He hit a shot that hit mid way up the wall, the outfielder played it off the wall with a bare handed catch, gunned it into second with Pedroia just getting there with a pop-up feet first slide safely.

As Sammy says,

"Is soooooo reaaaallllllll"

Will post my horrible video later LOL. (it was just so hard to capture the beauty of the play and keep the ball in focus with such small resolution videos)

[pbz06]

Re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

Isn't it awesome! I am just so stoked to start my Franchise ... every game has you glued to the screen and FOCUSED. Phenomenal job on SCEAs part. They truly made the most realistic baseball game ever.

Werd

Although I'm not starting my season until the regular season starts, so I can use opening day rosters.